toggle

AAPL Stock: 439.66 ( -3.27 )

MacNN News

http://www.macnn.com/articles/01/04/17/apple.lawyers/

Apple lawyers take on themes

updated 04:25 pm EDT, Tue April 17, 2001

", 0, 0);

Apple has issued a cease and desist order against the Mac Themes Project for creating a theme editor, which allows theme designers to create new themes for Mac OS 8.5 and above, according to Macworld UK. Apple claims the editor enables third parties to copy its copyrighted trademark themes by "improperly copying Apple's copyrighted software code and graphic files". In February, Apple put legal pressure on a Windows skinning-environment, Stardock, when it released a skin that resembled the Aqua interface used in Mac OS X.

by MacNN Staff

Post tools:

TAGS :

industry

toggle

Comments

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 04:52pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
A little late

Apple should have thought about this before they implemented the appearance manager.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 04:54pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
typical

Just when I start to think that Apple's okay, they do something such as this -- come on Steve. You always lose when you play these kinds of games.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 04:58pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Incredibly stupid

I actually supported Apple coming down on certain themes, the Apple logo is a registered trademark, but this is stupid. It's also two-faced. Apple wants this software off the market because it allows people to illegaly copy their appearance, meanwhile there's iTunes which allows people to illegaly copy musical works (just as the RIAA).

Not that I agree with the RIAA's stance on MP3 either, but I don't agree with Apple on their stance and also find them two-faced.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 04:58pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
illegal copies?

perhaps apple should outlaw grab.app and other screenshot programs if this is their concern. get real, guys.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 05:15pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
see comments on slashdot

http://slashdot.org

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 05:19pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Copying...

...is the most sincere form of flattery right. Apple needs to rethink its legal strategy.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 05:22pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Good for Apple

The Mac community needs to stay with a proprietary harware software and intellectual property. Steve Jobs is GOD. We should always have to pay higher prices and have less choice - that is what Thinking Different is all about.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 06:00pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Bad timing?

Themes are all but dead on OS X despite OS X using a lot of the same technology to make Aqua what it is (an abstraction away from a pre-set interface to one of objects that can be any size or shape depending on the OS/Window server).

Mac OS X is *the* Mac OS in a few months, Classic will be the only surviving shipping variant of the old-school Mac OS at that point which offers Theme switching support of any measure.

Maybe while on spring break some intern found the "offending" software and told their boss (Apple Legal seems to be behind the curve on the goings on in the Mac community).

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 06:18pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
dumb and dumber

I'm really getting to the end of my rope with this kind of c***. Jobs likes to tweak Gates because he creates things with no class. Well, this is another totally classless move from the wormy fruit. You folks can't imagine how STUPID this makes Mac users look like to the rest of the world. And you KNOW this is coming from one person and one person only. We need to get rid of him, fire 3/4 of their lawyers and hire some software engineers who have a clue what they are doing and turn X into a MAC front end and not something that works like winblowz (because Jobs only uses winblowz and next, not macs).

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 06:23pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Think, people.

If Apple lets everyone copy the MacOS X GUI (let's face it, the Linux camp has been pathetic with GUIs..so they have to resort to copying MacOS X?!) then what's going to stop Microsoft from adding whatever MacOS X-isms they want into XP? they're already doing it! If Apple lets others get away, Microsoft will take advantage of that if it ever ended up in court.

I say "protect the MacOS look & feel" - you linux drones, go back to KDE or Gnome or Eazel.
I'm so sick of this big linux rip-off movement in the name of "open source." If that's how "open source" is, s**** it.. give me proprietary stuff anyday.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 06:26pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Legal Maneuver

This isn't Steve going nuts over someone with a theme maker. Its lawyers going nuts that they need to challenge all possible infringements on copyright, so that someone down the road can't say "Well, you all let someone do this, so therefore I can do that", which isn't legal speak (well, depends on the lawyer, I guess), but its the kind of things lawyers think up. For example, Apple wants to make sure they protect whatever copyright they might have on the Aqua experience. But if they let thememaker go unchallenged, that's precedent for all other theme makers, for OS 9 and OS X.

This is also why they attacked the emachines imac lookalike. Otherwise, people would be copying the cube and getting away with it (actually, Apple would probably let them copy the cube and then watch them lose cash as well!). You think stockholders would be happy if some other company makes a ton of money on something that was Apple's property/copyright until some lawyer said "Oh, let's not worry about that". [Oh, and Apple sued everyone even before Steve took back control, so you can't blame it all on him.]

You have to realize Apple is a business, not just a purveyor of software and hardware. Even steve jobs is held accountable by the owners (stockholders) of the company.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 06:52pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Precedent

Think bigger, people. This is about setting a legal precedent so that Micro$oft doesn't steal Aqua. Apple got burned before, so good for them that they are protecting their property. OS X finally gives them a shot at gaining market share, but if they let M$ copy OS X then Apple basically did M$'s R&D for them.

I don't understand how someone could be against Apple's move on this. And no, it isn't hypocrytical that they have iTunes, an MP3 player. iTunes is not Napster, it doesn't facilitate copyright infringement. If you are going to take that stance, then CD burners should be illegal because they can be (are) used to duplicate copyrighted audio CDs.

Its big business that gets hurt by CD copying anyways...the Artists are only helped. They make most of their money by touring, and with more exposure come greater crowds at concerts.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 06:55pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
precedent 2

But my main point is that Apple is right to sue. They are protecting their property, and this property was aquired by hard spent R&D money at Apple. So why should some other company (ahem, M$) be allowed to use it at will?

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 07:18pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Red Zone

Yeah, the guy who kept cutting me off in the 1992 Geo Metro this morning had Linux and Red Hat stickers all over his rusty deathtrap. There's a thin line between laissez-faire and loose cannon.
Now my question is, do all those piercings make you a good programmer?

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 07:42pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Copyrights

Apple's legal department may look to be over zealous about look & feel,patents and the like,but there are many precedents that occured like how did the original Microsoft WMP came to be,the answer from Apple's Quicktime codes that a third party developer copied and paid for by Microsoft or the iMac lookalikes that came a few months later when the iMac was introduced.True,they won the latter and Microsoft paid for the former,but the damage was done.I don't like what they are doing but I understand their why they are doing it.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 07:50pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Do I misunderstand?

Many of you are defending this as "Apple keeping others from ripping off its look and feel." I am completely in agreement with that motivation in general, but it doesn't seem to apply here. This is about Apple stopping its users from customizing their copy of the Mac OS so that it looks more like they think it should. How does that lead to piracy or loss of intellectual property? (This is one area where Windows actually has the advantage - very customizable appearance, even without third-party software. Granted, most custom Windows themes I've seen are hideous, but if that's how the user wants their machine to look, why should we stop them?)

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 08:04pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
No

From what the article noted,the problemm is the theme editor and Apple felt that the theme editor could be use by other OSes to imitate the Mac's look and feel and what have you.Other than that you could have been right.

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 08:05pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: Precedent

OS X finally gives them a shot at gaining market share, but if they let M$ copy OS X then Apple basically did M$'s R&D for them.

And the Open Source community - by way of free, permissive BSD licensing - basically did Apple's R&D for them.

Apple couldn't handle writing an OS on their own (Copland, Pink, etc.) since they were too busy marketing colored plastic to cultists when they weren't reneging on ROM licensing or threatening legal action on teens and Open Source projects.

:-P

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 08:14pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
theme creator!

If I understand, the product in question allows people to *create* themes... So I don't see the problem with that.. It doesn't promote users to steal anything...

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 08:55pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Errr

Wasn't that Berkley that was responsible for BSD, courtesy of Bell Labs? Apple can't win. here they have invested a ton of money trying to bring UNIX to the masses, a mantra that every UNIX person i know has been talking about. Open Source cannot do that�the focus will never be there. A good example of this is Netscape. If I wanted to tweak a Browser then I would hack into Netscape, but look at OmniWeb for a true consumer oriented product. As a programmer for a zillion years, I love to play. But turning code into a user-friendly, stable releasable, supportable code is tough. Linux, mySQL, etc. are all great tools�but not consumer products. May Linux live forever�and may Apple protect their intellectual property to make prooducts "for the rest of us."

Actually the point has been made above�legal precendent�is the only thing that matters, and if Apple makes no move to protect Aqua, then MS XP can waltz into 2002 with a mac-look alike. Apple is preparing the way to fight, as Redmond is converting XP to include more and more Mac features. Note, that Apple is not trying to protect their incorporation of industry standards, despite the fact that XP is announcing OS X standards every day :-)

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 09:19pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: Errr

Wasn't that Berkley that was responsible for BSD, courtesy of Bell Labs?

The Net/Free/OpenBSD teams have largely eliminated Bell/AT&T code from their codebase. And it is the Berkeley license (now sans the objectionable 'UC Regents' rubbish) that allowed Apple to build OS X.

Apple can't win. here they have invested a ton of money

Think; without using BSD/Mach, they would've spent a lot more...

... trying to bring UNIX to the masses, a mantra that every UNIX person i know has been talking about

Prior to the exponential rise in popularity of FreeBSD, OpenBSD and Linux, a lot of us were hoping SGI or NeXT or Sun or DEC would do the same. Perhaps we would have wished it would be Apple if the situation now is as it was 12 years ago.

However, now that Open Source is arriving and gaining popular mindshare, most UNIX people (me included) see a superior licensing and development model in the true spirit of early UNIX prior to AT&T and subsequent encumbered commercially licensed UNIX.

Sorry, this 'value-added' model of Aqua riding on community development is far too little far too late.

And with Apple's unrestrained legal team and rabid advocates defending its official line, one would think that Apple is attempting to *scare* off developers :-P

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 09:23pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Go Redmond!

as Redmond is converting XP to include more and more Mac features

Then they must be planning on slowing Windoze down to the speed of the 1.0 version, abandoning such frills as support for cd burning and scanners, making simple networking require an advanced degree in software engineering...

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 10:06pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Hmm....

All your Apple interface are belong to us!

0

Joined:

0

04/17, 11:46pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
You people

What part of "improperly copying Apple's copyrighted software code and graphic files" don't you understand?

It's the same with one of the Mac OS X Theme apps - it contained Apple code.

Would Adobe be happy if someone made an image editor containing Photoshop code?

0

Joined:

0

04/18, 12:24am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Oh please

Scare off developers? Hardly. Develop a great prouctivity or creative tool for the Mac. See how badly Apple comes after you. Take a look at the Apple web feature on the X version of Graphic Converter if you really want to see how Apple handles a typical software developer.

0

Joined:

0

04/18, 09:21am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Precedent

And the Open Source community - by way of free, permissive BSD licensing - basically did Apple's R&D for them.

Of course, since all *BSDs have the same features found on OS X minus the Kandy-Kolored Tangerine-Flake Streamline theme.

And Bell/AT&T didn't do any R&D for the Open Source community ?

Apple couldn't handle writing an OS on their own (Copland, Pink, etc.) since they were too busy marketing colored plastic to cultists

Strange then that they weren't selling any "colored plastic" till '98 when Rhapsody was already in the hands of developers, and Pink was long dead (IBM couldn't make it viable either).

0

Joined:

0

04/18, 09:27am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Hmm....

Don't you mean:
'You are the weakest Apple interface; Goodbye.'

0

Joined:

0

04/18, 02:57pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Blah blah blah

You guys spend all day talking about nothing.

0

Joined:

0

04/18, 10:20pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Blah blah blah

You guys spend all day talking about nothing.

And you read nothing, understand nothing and say nothing.

0

Joined:

0

04/21, 02:54pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
APPLE stupidity

Subject: RE: Threats from APPLE Computer to Mac Themes Project
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:06:47 -0700
From: "Martin A. Totusek"
To: Fabricio Vayra

As a longtime Macintosh & Power Macintosh owner, & Mac OS user (I'm not a part of the Mac Themes Project), it was with great dismay that I read the threats being issued to MTP. IF this is what APPLE intends to do to any of the Mac OS users that develop Skins, (aka Themes, aka Schemes), then many of us long-time APPLE customers will really seriously have to look at whether we will continue to purchase and support APPLE products and the Mac OS "Classic"/X Platform. Many of us have stuck with APPLE in part, because of reasons stated in the Email below.

Sincerely,
Martin A. Totusek
(A Mac OS User since the "MAC PLUS")

c. FILE

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Threats from APPLE Computer to Mac Themes Project
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:23:45 -0700
From: "Martin A. Totusek"
Reply-To: bb553@scn.org
To: Wincent Colaiuta
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Threats from APPLE Computer to Mac Themes Project
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:08:11 -0700
From: "Martin A. Totusek"
Reply-To: "Martin A. Totusek"
To: Dennis Sellers, "John H. Farr", Gene Steinberg, Ted Landau, Scott Anguish, Gabriel, John Holmes, "Charles W. Moore", 36th District Democrats messages
CC: Philip Schiller, iCEO Steve Jobs, Linus Torvalds

RE: Mac Themes Project Response, and the text of the Letter from APPLE Computer):

http://www.macthemes.org/News.html

Greetings,

As a long-time Mac OS user, I wanted to say that the threats from APPLE Computer regarding any "Theme Editor" from the Mac Themes Project, are unfortunate, and contrary to the desires of the Macintosh users;

We are quite used to having a very high degree of control over the
Graphical User Interface (GUI) appearance of our OS, and a "Theme
Editor", is part of the tools used by many. This is also NOT a case of a duplicate "AQUA" skin/appearance being ported to another OS (like MS Windows, and hey, the newest Windows IS copying "AQUA"..., but I don't see APPLE attacking the "for-profit" Microsoft about it); This is a case of not-for-profit, user-desired alternatives to the "AQUA" skin, on the Mac OS Platform itself.

Additionally, by Open Sourcing the "Darwin" Mac OS Code, APPLE has
clearly, in effect, invited folks to work on things for the Mac OS. The Open Source movement had previously expressed skepticism about APPLE's truely being honest and committed about Open Sourcing; It appears that their concerns are quire valid. By attacking the people who are a big part of the Open Source/Freeware efforts, APPLE makes a lie out of their previous statements that folks can create new skins (aka Themes, aka
Schemes) for the Mac

Show More Comments

Login Here

toggle

Network Headlines

05/21	iOS 7 to get Flickr, Vimeo integration...
05/21	Cook pushes for US IP law changes during...
05/21	Cook: US-made Mac will be assembled...
05/21	Broadcom 802.11ac chipset spotted,...
05/20	Senators Levin, McCain accuse Apple...

Show All

05/21	iOS 7 to get Flickr, Vimeo integration...
05/21	Cook pushes for US IP law changes during...
05/21	Broadcom 802.11ac chipset spotted,...
05/21	Did Google tease Android �Key Lime...
05/21	Galaxy S4 stock Android �Google Edition...

Show All

toggle

Apple lawyers take on themes

updated 04:25 pm EDT, Tue April 17, 2001

Related Articles

Recent Articles

A little late

typical

Incredibly stupid

illegal copies?

see comments on slashdot

Copying...

Good for Apple

Bad timing?

dumb and dumber

Think, people.

Legal Maneuver

Precedent

precedent 2

Red Zone

Copyrights

Do I misunderstand?

No

re: Precedent

theme creator!

Errr

re: Errr

Go Redmond!

Hmm....

You people

Oh please

Re: Precedent

Re: Hmm....

Blah blah blah

Re: Blah blah blah

APPLE stupidity

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace