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http://www.macnn.com/articles/01/03/27/dell.winning/

Dell winning over Apple in edu trenches

updated 01:50 pm EST, Tue March 27, 2001

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"Jobs Strives to Rekindle Sales, Enthusiasm" notes Apple's declining education marketshare, increased inventory, quarterly losses, Dell's hegemony in the education sector, and concludes: "Apple's shares languishing, the PC market in decline, and even loyal fans questioning his strategy, Jobs may not be able to wait that long (for longer term Dell extracts to begin expiring)."

by MacNN Staff

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03/27, 02:17pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
This article is garbage.

The person writeing this article has spinned so many facts it has made me dizzy reading it. (flawed Newton????).

Full o c***.

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03/27, 02:18pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
All old news...

What is new here in this report that we have not heard since last year? This is such a bag of old news and comments that the only thing that's missing is a kitchen sink.

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03/27, 02:19pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
appl shares languishing?

Why do I keep seeing this in the news? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the shares of just about every major US company suffering in this bear market?
Talk about starving for material.

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03/27, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Mhz issue

I guess even the press is convinced the Mhz = relative CPU power and speed.

The Cube is a flop? hah! Its just a niche product for people (like me) who need to conserve some deskspace, but need a fast machine that is easy to plug other things onto.

Why don't they even the score by dinging Intel for delivering a Pentium IV that's slower then a Pentium III and failing to deliver the Itanium on schedule? And even better Microsoft for copying Apple yet again with Windows XP?

Wouldn't it be funny if Apple was the first vendor to bring the power of Unix into the first grade?

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03/27, 02:27pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
there are problems but...

In an episode of The West Wing, the computer service guy quotes his grandfather: "If they are shooting at you, you must be doing something right." So it is not surprizing that Apple is still the target of every idiot who figured out how to make a living by attacking somebdoy in print.

Having said that, it is also not unusual for Apple to shoot itself in the foot.

Since Steve came back as iCEO the focus has been on making the mac the Ferrari/Mercedes of the computing world. Fine and well. But schools are like fleet buyers, they look at bottom line, not performance.

To recapture the edu market Apple needs a Cavalier. Unfortunately, the iMac is not it. Nice home machine. Too pricey for schools. Now if Apple were to go to schools (or better yet, to district boards) and say, "buy a thousand, get 35% off"...

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03/27, 02:58pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
incidentally . . .

Did anyone notice that last Friday, at his OS X press conference, Steve Jobs said the the Cube team has not been disbanded? MacUser UK (or whoever it was) got the story wrong.

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03/27, 03:21pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Morning program stinks!

This is the final straw.

Just cancelled my subscription to the rag.

The morning program stinks (i.e. to busy with multiple moving windows).

The web site is a bore.

No wonder the author has no e-mail for comments.

The playground term is .......... chicken.

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03/27, 04:00pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Apple in trouble because

OSX is not ready. It's slow on all G3s. Which means new machines at a time when Dell is slashing prices for the normal biz market let alone education.

OSX is also harder to learn than Windows. It is less user friendly than any flavor of windows except for 3.

It also is the slowest unix in the world and really my kids should be learning on a Dell. That's the real world where you have faster cpu and when you put more ram in the box the faster the OS is.

Apple will survive as a niche hobby computer. Something for the lonely to use and play at being designers.

I now have had to go and buy a Dell as it happens because all my internet design needs windoze. Acrobat 5 upgrade has a whole slew of web functions missing from the app and the new 3D software coming soon is really for windoze and Macromedia is bringing out an update to Director using Intel technology.

I have five Macs. But after playing with OSX and watching Adobe and Macromedia provide better versions for windows I have to move except .

So, OSX is slow and not as easy as Windows and the hardware is slower and you have to buy to extra pci cards to run non apple monitors and to have sound in.

Sorry but as a long time investor in hardware to the tune of over 40k I can not go any further.

OSX has shown me the future and its no as pretty as it looks.

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03/27, 04:20pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Various

Concerning the article I have never seen so much old news printed as new information. Concerning Apple's finances and their inventory levels of September, he was dead on. The problem is that this is now late March and much has changed. Apple now has the CD buring Macs. They have less than 5 weeks inventory. They have a shipping Mac OS X.

The other issues are that was misleading in the article are that Apple was/is not alone in low stock prices and profit warnings. Am I wrong, or didn't just about every PC manufacturer, including Apple, have a lousy fourth quarter. I guess we should fire all of the CEOs, including Michael Dell.

Lastly, that one writer must not like Mac because they don't know how to use them. Mac OS X runs faster (learn how to set it up before you criticize!). Adobe applications are the same, not better on Windows (the Mac OS makes then seem to run better on a Mac.The features you talk about are Microsoft server specific issues. And I can't remember when I ever needed to use a PCI card to use a third party monitor.

If you truly feel Windows is easier than OS X, then I feel badly for you. This is because you never were a Mac user, and now you are getting the PCs that you so desparately wanted anyway.

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03/27, 04:20pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: incidentally

Of course Jobs isn't going to admit that he disbanded the Cube team. You think he's going to admit everything that comes out of Cuperintino? Of course not. Just because he said he didn't fire anyone, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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03/27, 04:24pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re:Apple in trouble becau

Macromedia is bringing out an update to
Director using Intel technology.

True that it began as Intels, but now that it's in MACRs hands, this technology works great on both platforms. None of the code is platform specific.
If you need a reason to switch platforms, this is not it. We have many web developers here on the mac.
Your just looking for an excuse and you've not found it.

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03/27, 04:59pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Apple in trouble

OS X is slow on all G3s? When did you break into my house and run benchmark tests on my 233MHz beige G3?

Why is it that I've seen so many positive remarks on the performance on OS X, whereas most of the negative remarks about speed have been complaining about Finder window resizing? (How many times do you resize your finder windows anyway?)

Admit it, you're trolling.

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03/27, 05:10pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: apple is in trouble

Thank you for your input, Mr. Gates.

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03/27, 06:00pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Fringe

Your assumption is that Apple wants to be the leading market share. That is a bad assumption. They want to be profitable and bring the driving technologies to our desktop. If you want these technologies, you use a Mac. If you use a Windows computer, you'll get them also, just later.

I choose to be a fringe player with kick butt technologies at my disposal. I thumb my nose at all of you guys that play it safe.

I was just reading another article about Microsoft saying that Desktop Video will be a use for entry level computers. Why is it you Windows guys laughed when Jobs said that OVER a year ago, and now you applaud Gates. Give me a break. Now Microsoft is showing images of Windows XP that have taken some of Aqua from Apple. You same guys, once again, are saying; ..."Cool", when in reality it was cool a year ago. Actually, XP is just pictures, Aqua is real.

Some have forgotten just how bad Windows NT was. Windows 2000 is much better. Really, it is much more reliable. Why do we not allow Apple time to perfect their OS, and Microsoft is always allowed to shovel c*** onto our desktops?? Think about that.

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03/27, 06:05pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Harder than Windows?

In response to the above poster, how exactly is MacOS X *HARDER* to use than Windows. Is it because of the Unix underpinnings? It's not like a normal user ever has to drop into the terminal and start changing file permissions and editing their .cshrc file to set paths. Much like in Windows you don't have to drop into DOS and do stuff with your config.sys and autoexec.bat files.

Most people can keep their frequently used items in the Dock, and have the rest easily accessible through the toolbar in the Finder windows. System configuration is also just as easy as it was under MacOS 9. It doesn't get much easier than that.

I'm not seeing how MacOS X is *harder* to use than Windows. I've been using it as my primary OS since its release (dropping in MacOS 9 every now and then for a game of Quake III), and have not found it harder than MacOS 9. I was disoriented at first, because it was new to me and I didn't know where things were. But that is quickly learned after an hour of use. Sort of like getting used to System 7 after System 6.

Admittedly it is a bit sluggish, as was Windows upon its release. I'm going to give Apple the benefit of the doubt, and assume that all the kinks will be worked out by this summer.

BTW: You also don't need to buy PCI cards to use non-Apple monitors. Right out of the box there is ADC as well as VGA. Check the tech specs at http://www.apple.com/powermac. (I have a G4 533 and can confirm it does have a VGA port as well, this is with the standard OEM GeForce 2MX video card).

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03/27, 06:16pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Apple is in trouble

"My kid should be learning on a Dell?"

WTF?

Folks, we have a Winblows shill in the house.

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03/27, 06:46pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
What Apple needs ...

... does not include trolls who spew forth junk: some blatantly false, some half-true, one or two true things, and the rest flamebait.

Years ago, one of the prominent reasons for switching to Windows was that it worked "more like a Mac." While the reason was a crock then, it's obvious that Gates and Co. are still trying to make Windows work "more like a Mac."

BTW, on proprietary hardware: you can use much of the third-party RAM and peripherals on the market. USB has made it so that "proprietary hardware" peripherals (of which *all* hardware is to some degree proprietary) can be switched out at will. Apple computers are not longer the closed systems they used to be. So this argument holds little water.

Of course, if Jobs can score some HUGE contracts with some schools, large companies, and federal government agencies ... but then again, as long as I have access to what I need (most of which is cross-platform), I don't mind that I'm in the minority of computer users.

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03/27, 08:01pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Mistakes of yesteryear?

As a freshman at the University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign in 1987, I constantly heard from the "PC techs" about how Apple should license their MacOS operating system to other parties! But, Apple had a closed "board of directors" made up of primary investors, which I began to see as I completed my business degree at UIUC! As only a freshman, I had an "epiphany" when I only "heard" about Windoze 1.0? I thought that this could become the end of the Macintosh, which was on EVERY UIUC secretary's desk, and sure enough, 8 years later, Windoze95 arrived!

But, who could I have told, as an 18 year old business freshman at UIUC?

Jeff

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03/27, 08:38pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: Sorry, he's right

For a hardware company to stop producing its proprietary hardware would be pretty dumb, wouldn't it? It's like telling Microsoft to stop selling proprietary software.

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03/27, 10:55pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
kick steves a**

someone needs to walk up to ol' Gap boy and jab his a** in the eye. then sit is arrogant a** down and tell him hes not God. or better yet drop some LSD in his spring water one afternoon and watch him crumble. EGOs "the bigger they are the harder they fall"
what happened to the nice tight 4 areas of focus? looks like a hog pog of fooking choices over on the site. what a friggin idiot, he had it right and somewhere he got off on this cube tangent. The cube shoulda been a mini top or pda...cdrw aint the only thing he missed.....

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03/27, 11:21pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Kick Steve's a**

That was the stupidest post I've ever read.

Hey, IDIOT, the company would be dead if Jobs hadn't come back.

Which would pretty much render the Cube and all the other c*** you're whining about pretty much moot, right, idiot?

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03/27, 11:25pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
X harder than Windows?LOL

I just wanted to say that the guy who posted that OS X is harder to use than Windows is on some serious medication that he should share with me.

He is also likely too stupid to know how to use a computer, and is having his older brother operate said comp and web browser for him.

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03/27, 11:32pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
History lesson in error.

The Newton was an "organizer"?????? It IS a portable digital assistant with handwriting recognition!

Stock topped at 70 points????? It was over one hundred until the stock split.

Other than that, the history lesson is important, though inaccurate and slanted and the problems are real, if overblown.

You take the good and the bad with Steve Jobs.

But this is the first I've heard of a pda!

Oh and the "Apple in trouble because" dude seemed genuine, but a lot misguided if he thinks OSX is difficult to use. Heck it is easier for a Windoze person to use than a Mac person and in the words of Jack Nickalson (Mars Attacks) "and that ain't bad!"

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03/28, 02:45am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Apple in trouble

How well did NT work when it first came along? You are mistaken for dumping Apple in favour of Dell. Do as you choose, but do not state that for a first "edition" you can definitively state that Mac OS X will stay the slowest Unix in the world. It is an ignorant statement. Most other Unix(s) are not working with an interface that will (eventually) support so much software for graphics designers. You are also mistaken in your comment that Mac users "play at being graphics designers". It is a major platform in graphics design. Witness John Warnock's comment about the two platforms re: graphics: "Microsoft just doesn't get it". This is from Adobe's founder(one of two). I suppose he doesn't know about graphics as a business either? Hope your children do not desire to be graphics artists. Better, hopefully, they will. Don't cut them off from Apple.

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Dell winning over Apple in edu trenches

updated 01:50 pm EST, Tue March 27, 2001

This article is garbage.

All old news...

appl shares languishing?

Mhz issue

there are problems but...

incidentally . . .

Morning program stinks!

Apple in trouble because

Various

re: incidentally

re:Apple in trouble becau

Re: Apple in trouble

re: apple is in trouble

Fringe

Harder than Windows?

Re: Apple is in trouble

What Apple needs ...

Mistakes of yesteryear?

re: Sorry, he's right

kick steves a**

Re: Kick Steve's a**

X harder than Windows?LOL

History lesson in error.

Apple in trouble

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Dell winning over Apple in edu trenches

updated 01:50 pm EST, Tue March 27, 2001

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This article is garbage.

All old news...

appl shares languishing?

Mhz issue

there are problems but...

incidentally . . .

Morning program stinks!

Apple in trouble because

Various

re: incidentally

re:Apple in trouble becau

Re: Apple in trouble

re: apple is in trouble

Fringe

Harder than Windows?

Re: Apple is in trouble

What Apple needs ...

Mistakes of yesteryear?

re: Sorry, he's right

kick steves a**

Re: Kick Steve's a**

X harder than Windows?LOL

History lesson in error.

Apple in trouble

Login Here

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