I'll believe it when I see it. Wasn't Windows Vista supposed to be out this year? Then it was pushed back to next year? I'll believe it when I see it. Until then it's all talk. You know what they say about talk.

How does MS reconcile competing with it's "partners." Every digital music/media player company except Apple (and maybe Sony) relies on MS to provide the interface software. Every online music store except Apple's iTunes (and a few other minor players) relies on MS to provide the interface software. And now, MS wants to do the "vertical" thing too and provide an end-to-end user experience all by itself. MS is only competing with the companies it already partners with; most potential customers have already chosen Apple and making them dump their iPods and iTunes library switch to Microsoft is not going to be easy.

What's next, Microsoft announces that it will build it's own line of desktop and laptop PCs, to better integrate with Windows Vista?

posted by kw99

Say what? Actually, MOST other companies DON'T use the MS software on their players. Apple, Sony, Cowon, Iriver, Kenwood, Creative, etc. Just go anythingbutipod.com to get more details.

Are the others better than the iPod? Yes and no. Depends on the person and what they need. I use a Sony Pocket Vaio and a Kenwood HD30GA9. The Vaio is built like a tank and the Kenwood has the best sound of any DAP I have ever heard (but much too expensive!!!!).

Do I really think that people are going to dump their iPods in droves. Not a chance. But MS doesn't have to take first place to make a good showing. All they need to do is take 2nd place and hold a decent percentage of the market. I wish Sony would have figured this out instead of bringing out a new DAP every six months trying to best the iPod at every turn. There is nothing wrong with 2nd place, especially if you are making a profit.

Joe

Turning into a repackaged Dell Xiam with a play/pause/volume buttons running a reskinned Microsoft Mobile Windows xyz Year|Version OS and of course bluetooth/wifi/GSM/EVDO/CDMA pocket Word/Excel/Outlook/IE jack of all trades master of none... requires you to launch 20 apps on your pc to sync data before you leave the house... But wait its wireless so you don't have to plug it in physically...except when syncing your address book because that isn't supported over the wireless protocol the are using.

Atleast they released it right??? it made it out of development

which christmas are we talking about?

I wonder how well this thing is going to be built.

XBox is soooo durable after all, especially when it can't recognize audio cds and has to be replaced.

MS has the marketing expertise and the capital to make their project a success. At least by leading people to believe it's a competent media player.

Apple does need to update thier iPod line and add features that other players have had for a while. I'll bet that MS's player offers an FM tuner and voice recording too. Who cares if you (ipod kiddie) use it or not, it's there for those who will.

I'm ready for my third iPod player but honestly have been looking elsewhere like the Sony Ericsson W810. I know it doesn't connect with the iTunes store but that's a small inconvenience given the larger inconveniences with the current line of iPods.

Hopefully and most likely Apple isn't as overconfident as some of the Apple crowd in thinking they can just brush off the MS competition. They have to keep innovating. Thankfully, this is what they do best.

I laugh at this article's insinuation that Microsoft is trying to come up with a music service that isn't tethered to the PC. Nearly everything they do is designed to sell more copies of Windows; furthering their Windows monopoly is their raison d'etre.

This will just be another failed iPod/iTunes-killer wannabe. And that's not hubris, it's a cold, hard fact. DRM-assisted market inertia will keep non-iPod devices as also-rans. People are already invested in the iPod and iTunes. Music from the Microsoft service won't be playable on the iPod. Music from the iTMS won't be playable on the MS player without the hassle of burning and re-ripping. The iPod/iTMS has the marketshare, the mindshare, and a huge ecosystem of add-ons and accessories-- the very things Microsoft touts in those commercials voiced by William H. Macy.

The only way Microsoft could ever make headway would be to come up with a supremely kick-a** player and music store-- and given the market interia, even if they did that success wouldn't be assured. But we all know that all they will do is copy the iPod/iTMS as closely as they can without getting sued, and then add a few features so they can run around claiming "Innovation!"

~Philly

so lets say it happens using whatever methods. what happens when someone looses their ms player and some kid who finds it buys 100s of songs. im sure it will allow for some auto billing setup. how can you enter a password with standard player buttons... would be easy to add up alot of money fast with music downloads that would later be offloaded.

just a thought.

microsoft is developing hardware.

they have little to no experience in this as a company.

failure looms.

Was just reading an interesting article about how Apple might be looking to move into games to see off such competition (http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/blog/?p=121). Wordy but now looks quiet prescient!

>MOST other companies DON'T use the MS software on their players. Apple, Sony, Cowon, Iriver, Kenwood, Creative, etc. Just go anythingbutipod.com to get more details.

FYI - I wasn't talking about the software ON the players. I was talking about the "interface" software on the PC, as in Windows Media Player.

This is the most interesting comment to date:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/06/microsoft-planning-wifi-enabled-portable-media-player-working-o/

“But it gets better. To attract current iPod users Microsoft is going to let you download for free any songs you've already bought from the iTunes Music Store. They'll actually scan iTunes for purchased tracks and then automatically add those to your account. Microsoft will still have to pay the rights-holders for the songs, but they believe it'll be worth it to acquire converts to their new player.”

where can I find a pic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeXAcwriid0

yawned.

What will MS do with the cost of songs in their own store? Will it be a flat 99 cents per song or will they cave to the pressure by the record companies to make popular songs cost more? Offering to eat the cost of songs you've already bought on the ITMS tells me that MS has already made some deals with record companies.

First of all, I for one can't imagine Microsoft finishing this thing AND doing the deals in time for the holiday season without showing a working prototype to the music companies.

Secondly, how you gonna browse music and select buy and download over WIFI without a significantly BIGGER form factor than even the biggest Ipod today.

On top of that, MS's firsts in hardware usually suck; if this thing would only run half as hot as the 360 you would need carbonfibre gloves just to hold it.

Lastly the content-producers hate MS's guts. See, there's a pc in every household. Yet MS has failed to deliver anything that is even remotely as good a user experience as Itunes.

Simply put, portable digital music=Itunes+ipod!

Nevermind how insane this entire idea is...How's Microsoft, who's notorious for missing ship dates, going to deliver a device and infastructure to topple the undisputed king of digital media players...in time for christmas?

I mean, they can't even deliver on operating systems, their main business...so why the h*** are they even bothering with this?

"I mean, they can't even deliver on operating systems, their main business...so why the h*** are they even bothering with this?"

they have to. pride.

I try to avoid blind mac loyalty/kneejerk M$ hatred but really... I predict this MP3 player will be a disaster. M$ doesn't do hardware well. If it's anything like their software, it will be unreliable, difficult to use, and twice as big and heavy as an iPod.

"microsoft is developing hardware. they have little to no experience in this as a company. failure looms."

posted by bspaulding

Yeah by the looks of Apples product history the same can be said.

As far as im concerned I'm probably the only person here who does not suck Jobs d***.

Apple suck at doing their hardware as well.

Ummm what about the Macbook Pro. I heard its not even a good idea to put it on your lap because of heat issues.

Let MS do its thang and criticize when the product eventuates.

... more, Gates or Jobs?! They probably would set up some sweet deal to give Jobs a kick in the teeth, just so they don't have to dance to Apple's tune forever. Steve needs to get on the stick and increase the iPod ecosystem. License some technology to Sony or a few others to get more allies. This struggle is for the long haul and MS can pay for the long haul.

MS still has lots of advocates and there is a small but growing iPod backlash ... just read some of the posts in this forum. If MS throws enough money at the project, it will create some doubt and that is all MS needs, especially if the player and few "free" songs come bundled with every pc on the planet!

And MS does make some good hardware ... mice and XBox seem to be doing okay.

devilla101 wouldn't know good hardware if it bit her/him in the @$$.

So time for Apple to open up the iPod as an entirely new platform and crank! 80% of the pc population still doesn't own ANY iPod player ... that is a big market to lose if MS makes any headway.

Do you have your hand in Jobs' pants as well?

No such thing as good hardware from Apple. Only that its well designed.

You don't become a Engineering and Design firm overnight. Apple was a Engineering and Design firm since day one. This is the key difference between Apple and Microsoft. Microsoft is a software company who uses existing ideas (and sometimes come up with some). Apple has been designing and engineering motherboards, printers, monitors, computers, iPods, servers, etc.... They have a research department and human ressources to do it.

I think MS might have hired another company to design and build the iPod rival but already, because the engineering is not internal to the company and part to its history and philosophy, it might not work as well.

However, MS is doing pretty well with the xBox. But does it requires the same engineering? Have MS detroned Sony or Nitendo? When Sony releases PSP3, it's going to be a new level.

Yes competition is good because it makes companies think. The question is who think best or think different?

>>> Apple suck at doing their hardware as well.

It is easy to write such things but if you could give me a list of hardware failure I would appreciate. You might want to check Apple Hardware Design History and realize that you are absolutely wrong. And don't tell me about the cube. I think the cube was a brilliant design. It got killed by some bad press and probably released at the wrong time. The engineering in that box was amazing. If you don't appreciate engineering and design, then I understand why you don't appreciate Apple products.

I recommend you go to a book store and just glance inside a book called: Appledesign: The Work of the Apple Industrial Design Group

You might learn a few things or two. FYI, Apple had the tablet PC designed way before. Same for the PalmPilot except it was called Newton.

I think its time for you to clean those 5 inch thick glasses nerd (and while your at it, fix the tape on them rims too)

Damn I hate nerds who talk a lot of s*** and adds more than whats really needed in an argument