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MacNN News

Websites tested on Macs?

updated 04:20 pm EST, Sat February 17, 2001

Andrew Harrison writes about problems he experienced with Entertainment Weekly's Website (which we encountered as well):

"Hey MacNN, as dedicated Macintosh users, I think we are required to point out companies who either don't care about us, or ignore us as consumers. The problem is Entertainment Weekly's Website The site is horribly slow in IE5 even with my broadband connection, to top it off, resizing the browser window in Explorer 5 either freezes the machine or the browser unexpectedly quits. Is this just me, or does it happen to others? Another problem, this in Netscape 4.0.5, - Load the same page, and shrink the browser window(once or twice) and watch all the content dissapear! Are these problems specific to the website, or problems in each browser? Anyhoo, I think it is necessary for we Mac users to let E-Weekly know that their website is ignoring an important set of people."

by MacNN Staff

(45)

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02/17, 04:56pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Who Cares!

Mr. Harrison needs to get a life! In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing. Furthermore, this is a HTML/Java issue and is NOT a problem for Mac users alone. It happens on both popular browsers on both platforms.

Also, is this really news? I mean, who cares! This is being made out to sound like a Mac only problem. It isn't and if someone (macNN?) would have taken the time to check it on a Windows box, they would have known that.

Go to some other entertainment site that really works. There are plenty of 'em.

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02/17, 04:59pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
hmm

I didn't have a problem there.

cable - imacDVSE

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02/17, 05:10pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
icab

icab is fine

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02/17, 05:12pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Maybe?

Maybe Mr. Harrison needs to get a life, but there are enough horrible websites on the web already, why should this one be exempt from criticism?

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02/17, 05:21pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Grammy.com

What about an important web site upcoming this week ... grammy.com. It doesn't render properly in IE 4.5 or 5, or iCab, but renders ok in Netscape 4.7 but causes Netscape to freeze when accessing the drop down menu. Everything works fine on the PC side with IE or Netscape. Poor web site design if they didn't check this out.

http://www.grammy.com

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02/17, 05:24pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
certainly is a problem

If all you use is a mac, then it is a mac problem. site crashes for me too in Explorer 5.

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02/17, 05:26pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
same here

i have to agree with him. first of all he said IE 5 - it locked the browswer and then my machine completely up.

it may not be purely a mac problem...but it is a problem.

maybe some people should stop criticizing people for no damn reason.

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02/17, 05:27pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
disapearing content

is a netscape-CSS thing. go get 6 !

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02/17, 05:41pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Misc. Issues

First, shame on those that are critical of Mr. Harrison. People do not learn about technology by being criticized about the mistakes they make.

The Entertainment Weekly Web site works fine on Internet Explorer 5.5 and Netscape 4.7 under Windows 98.

Yes, the issues he has experienced are generally platform issues. However, it is not an issue of Java. The slow loading time is caused by the excessive use of JavaScript. The crash experienced by resizing a window appears be related to a JavaScript also.

Just a guess but, I bet this is limited to slower computers (i.e. pre G3.) Crashes related to both JavaScript and Java are common under these circumstances.

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02/17, 05:42pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Mozilla

The page loads in Mozilla .8

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02/17, 06:04pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
uh

i sent them a message on the day their new site launched.

as i told them, if we launched a site that had that many problems at my company (without testing), we'd all be fired.

something to keep in mind, their web staff is SMALL... but that's still no excuse for the pathetic site.

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02/17, 06:10pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
no problem

no problem using IE5 for mac and DSL.

The site that does crash my browser every time is http://nikeid.nike.com

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02/17, 06:19pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Crashed my iMac

Hey man... that site like totally crashed my rev D iMac.. that's wacked man! Somone's gonna pay for that man....

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02/17, 06:21pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Is this really for MNN?

Sounds like you guys having a problem with the bad site (or any other poorly coded site) need to go to forkinthehead.com...and ask them to fork away.

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02/17, 06:32pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Browsers are free...

Try another one. Wouldn't hurt to tell EW that their web site isn't working right though. Never hurts to let someone else know when their site isn't performing as expected.

The best they can do is fix it. The worst is ignore it... and you either go to a different site or try another browser.

It's funny that the web is supposed to be free from proprietary standards, yet there is always some idiot trying to control s***.

Why don't you just watch TV or read Entertainment Weekly (the magazine)?

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02/17, 06:34pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
I had the same problem

I was a regular visitor to EW.com. Then they redesigned their site and it took FOR-E-VER to load! And then the damn thing froze up Internet Explorer 5 and my whole computer. I'm only running a lowly 604e PPC but still, I enjoyed going to that site since my 10 year subscription to the magazine finally lapsed and I wanted to keep up with their articles. Sorry if some people don't think the problem merits anyone's discussion about it.

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02/17, 06:53pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Entertainment tonight

had no problems logging onto the site with a 56k modem, a G4/500 with stock Apple modem. Page loaded just fine and worked fine!

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02/17, 06:55pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Layers

It sounds like a problem with an html tag called a layer. In netscape, if you resize a window with layer tags, the content gets messed up. Dreamweaver has had an easy "Resize Netscape" fix that you can add to a page with ease since DW 3. This is a known issue that the web staff must have just overlooked. It is very easy to solve via a simple javascript.

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02/17, 07:02pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
works fine for me

Using Netscape Communicator V4.7 over ADSL works fine for me. I don't care about the site, but it loaded fast for me.

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02/17, 07:08pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
No problems here

None what so ever loads fine...

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02/17, 07:39pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
ew.com DOES cause freezes

The new ew.com freezes my G4/500 at work (both IE 5 and Netscrape 4.7), my new Titanium PB G4 (both browsers) and my old G3/233 Wallstreet. So it's just not one person on one machine making a generalization. I've had it happen to me on 3 separate Macs.

All 3 Macs were running 9.1 -- what OS are the folks who aren't having problems running?

Of course, ew.com works flawlessly on a Windoze piece of s*** pc.

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02/17, 07:58pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
crashes my system

Running OS 9.1/MS IE 5 (PowerBook G4)

The site took a long time to load: crashed the minute I tried to resize the page.

And of course, this is a platform-specific issue and the story does raise discussion on whether high-profile sites even care about Mac users. There are more and more sites that undergoing redesign and just ignore or minimally test compatibility with Mac browsers.

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02/17, 08:36pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Hanky Panky??

Um...not sure what to think of this.

I posted a reply here a couple hours ago that was somewhat negative of MacNN, talking about some of the juvenile reporting that I've been seeing of late and how it's caused me to start looking elsewhere for news. Mostly, I was making the point that I believe MacNN needs to be more responsible in posting stories--research first. Specifically, I mentioned a story from early January about MacNN reporting that a Newer-upgraded iMac Rev. A iMac being incompatible with Mac OS 9.1. This, of course, is not true and could have been disproved with very little effort, yet the article was posted as fact.

Now, I've returned to see what other comments have posted, and I can't find my post? It *was* there briefly--I'm sure of it. Either MacNN's CMS is FUBAR'd or someone's been deleting comments.

Personally, I hope it's the former, for MacNN's sake.

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02/17, 09:09pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: Hanky Panky??

I appreciate your criticism of MacNN and it only benefits us. As such, I know that we do NOT delete comments that are negative or anti-MacNN. I did, however, delete your doublepost that you made this "Hanky Panky" comment. I can only imagine that the comment was not posted properly to the system.

As far as the iMac Rev A story in January, yes that was a mistake (and we do make them); and that was correctly pointed out in the comments on that article. Why did you make the comment in this thread? Do you believe that this was another mistake? How? In any case, it is probably more appropriate and probably a better use of your time to send criticism and other notes to the staff mailbox or editor@macnn.com, where they will reviewed and responded to perfectly. As far your notion that MacNN is not responsible or not doing research on its stories I beg to differ. Having been writing stories for 4 years, I think that in the vast majority of cases MacNN reports info that is accurate and timely: I challenge you find another source that's more timely--or even more accurate.

However, I am curious, combined with your somewhat inflammatory comment of "juvenille reporting," why you didn't sign your name to your comment.

In any case, feel free to continue this discussion offline (via email with me) or start a thread about it in our suggestions/comments forum but this is a not an appropriate place for the discussion as it is intended for news related to this story.

monish
mkbhatia@macnn.com

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02/17, 09:30pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
268 Errors on the Page

iCab reports there are 268 coding errors on the page. No doubt this was the work of GoDead or PageKill or Afront Page or Nightmare Weaver.

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02/17, 11:01pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
worked fine for me

G4 DP550/640MB/60GB/Radeon/Orion
OS 9.1 Netscape 4.73/my colors/no java
zac4mac@mac.com

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02/17, 11:20pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
OS X browsers

Just out of curiousity, I tried the entertainment weekly site under OS X with Explorer, Icab and Omniweb. None of them crashed at any point but they all rendered very differerent pages that were to not always usable. Omniweb in particularly was unusable, but they openly admit that CS isn't implemented yet. Under 9 it crashed IE and the computer, didn't bother with netscape under 9 as I don't really care that much about entertainment weekly.
The nike page crashed explorer under OS X (the machine was fine, of coures). It didn't crash under Omniweb or icab but it rendered useless pages with no content in either.
Personally I don't care about Entertainment weekly or Nike or most of these corporate marketing pages much. What disturbs me though is that the original strength of the web was that it was platform and browser neutral. Pages didn't look exactly the same under differert conditions but the function and content was there. This seems to be going out the window in the last couple of years. People write pages that break browsers as a result of using technologies that add little or nothing to the pages in question graphically but make web pages exceedingly fragile. That disturbs me. For reference I have been using the web since before Mosaic was released.

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02/18, 07:35am | report spam | close Reply | delete
simple

check this link

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ew.com%2Few%2F&ss=&outline=&sp=&noatt=

you'll see why there are so many problems
it's nothing new, it's just the average incompetence of people who call themselves "webdesigners"

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02/18, 08:17am | report spam | close Reply | delete
All can be explained...

I've been lurking happily on MacNN for years since by the time I get to read a story, everyone has covered all of the right bases in the comments. This time, I believe that I can add something of value.

More and more "web designers" are working on PCs and not Macs. This is not just the programmers but also the designers who are designing the pages. Since PCs are all they know and Macs to them are both a small audience (7% of the aggregate market and probably 0.5% of the traffic that actually go to c*** sites like ew.com) they choose to ignore Macs during QA (Quality Assurance).

Why? Because when you're setting up a web shop, you have to choose which machines to buy. PCs are cheaper (as are people who design web sites on PCs; compare salaries) so that's the way many shops are going. Therefore, they don't have PCs for testing on. And, because of the stats that I gave above, they frankly don't care.

I live, eat and breathe Macs (even as a programmer [a lonely life in the PC dominated programming world]) but I also consider my target audience first. Personally, I try to always make my sites work on Macs, but that is always extra work that I hope my bosses don't get angry for. I usually do it anyway 'cause I'm fast and I can sneak it in.

Now, for the JavaScript issue. Have you noticed how much nicer, elegant and more supportive Mac IE5 is of JavaScript than say Mac NN (except 6 which no one uses anyway - joking but the user numbers are truly low)? Unfortunately, PC IE5.5 supports JavaScript/CSS much better. So these PC web coders who make a 'kick-a**' (i.e. fully featured) DHTML web site that sings-n-dances on the PC have a hair-pulling time trying to get their code to work on Macs (if they even bother).

What's the solution? There isn't one. It's all about the target audience again. Marketing people holler in the ears of the Account Executives at these web shops that 93% of the site audience use PCs. These Account guys have tight budgets so they holler at the Producers to minimize costs. And to these Producers (who use PCs primarilly for Microsoft Word, Powerpoint and some email) have no qualms about cutting Macs out of the picture and asking their web teams to develop sites just for PCs.

So it's a cost thing. The only thing we can do is form a collective of pro-Mac programmers who give their services away for free to PC-dominate web shops so that their crappy web sites look good on our operating system of choice.

My $0.02.

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02/18, 10:34am | report spam | close Reply | delete
EW isn't ignorant of Mac

I find the whole scenario of EW's web people designing web sites on PCs for PCs to be ironic since their magazine is put together on Macs. Or at least they used to, unless they have since gone Windoze too...

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02/18, 11:11am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Hanky Panky...FOR SURE!

MacNN said...."we do NOT delete comments that are negative or anti-MacNN. I did, however, delete your doublepost that you made this "Hanky Panky" comment. I can only imagine that the comment was not posted properly to the system."

If that's the case, then here is the original message. It appears someone at MacNN did delete it and lied about it. If MacNN isn't bothered by criticism, then I guess there's no problem re-posting it. The case is much different as we all know. It's called honesty.

There are two problems here:

1) A badly-designed website that wasn't tested thoroughly on all platforms. This is a problem, of course, but it's not what I'm concerned about.

2) Shoddy reporting by MacNN. Too often of late MacNN has been so anxious (or desperate) to report news that they've forgone the standard journalisitic practice of research and confirmation in favor of getting the scoop. A recent example would be their report from early January about a Newer-upgraded iMac Rev. A iMac not being compatible with Mac OS 9.1 This is simply not the case, and could have been disproved had the reporter bothered to check this
configuration on a SECOND computer before posting. It smites of juvenile and unprofessional reporting.

Bottom line: Not EVERYTHING is news, no matter how tasty or well-written the reader's email might be. MacNN needs to get a tighter control of who posts what and when, and how. I've found myself reading other Mac news sites of late BEFORE I head to MacNN, because I find their content more informative, supportive, and accurate (MacCentral comes to mind).

But this is just one reader's opinion and observation. For the most part, MacNN has some great news--it's just that lately I find myself reading questionable news articles, more than is necessary.

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02/18, 12:03pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Web: access for all?

Does there need to be universal access?

If so, how and it is a problem. If not, why not? And should a web site be platform and browser aware?

I have four or five browsers, maybe when I try to load that page, it should redirect to Mozilla or something?

Will Java 2.0 (OS X?) put this to rest?

Gregory

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02/18, 01:28pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
EW w/iCab; journalism

I can view the EW page with iCab without crashing, but it clearly looks messed up. Big white spaces, lost text, overlapping elements.... Thus I can't agree that it looks fine with iCab.

As for the reporting at MacNN, they should have a clear list of standards to adhere to. Perhaps if they choose to run a non-complying article, it should be tagged for its noncompliance (ie "Not independently verified", "Not fact checked", "Opinion", etc), maybe even with an explanation for running it nonetheless.

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02/18, 03:20pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Vignette StoryServer SUX

their problem numero uno is Vignette StoryServer, the CNET spin-off content management system. Philip Greenspun reviews it here. Once you are running this, or Broadvision, your web front-end becomes alphabet soup.

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02/18, 03:30pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Hanky Panky, redux.

Thank you to whomever posted my first message, proving that MacNN did in fact delete it (can't think of any other way it would have disappeared).

I'm more bothered by the fact that someone deleted the negative post than by the recent unprofessional reporting.

My opinion of MacNN drops farther.

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02/18, 04:47pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Ignore Hanky Panky

Hank Panky, you've really made a fool of yourself. MacNN was right on target with their reporting (it crashes two separate Macs I have *hard*); in fact, I wondered how long it was going to take some site before they reported this awful and dangerous design. Why don't you get a grip, hobbit?

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02/18, 09:49pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: Hanky Panky

A few points:

1) Your message is still up (and should stay up). MacNN should accept reader criticisms and work on improving itself all the time. We all make mistakes and I don't think MacNN makes anymore that I expect them to (or even any more than other sites). The comment system serves it purpose well--allowing mistakes to be easily corrected by posts.

2) I find it odd that the guy didn't sign his name to his criticism (even after the MacNN staff member pointed that out). If you're gonna say something put an email address and your name with it, so MacNN or others can respond to you directly.

3) I think MacNN acknowleged the "bad reporting" with the Newer article, correcting soon after they learned of their mistake and again, in the post by the staff member. Let's hope it happens less frequently. But I am currious, I can't remember any posts that were way off base recently. Sure you point out that

4) As far as reading other Mac sites, I find it hard to believe that any other site is more thorough or comprehensive or timely than MacNN. In fact, all too often other sites seem to report on the same news that I read here--only a few days later, which makes it seem new, but if you're diligent (I use the headlines page to scan my news in addition to reading the main page), you'll find that most of it is here--both first and more accurately. MacCentral is just a bunch of PRs thrown together and a bunch of follow-ons from other sites. Read Business Wire or PRNewswire if you're interested in those.

5) I find it interesting that the author of "Hanky Panky" didn't respond the MacNN staff member challenge. Given his own inability to respond, post his name, and even point out anything else beside the Newer story (this story was obviously correct), it seems like a bunch of BS to me.

Jeremy Mia

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02/19, 08:49am | report spam | close Reply | delete
MacNN

The more of that puke-ish aqua-blue color MacNN has added to its site, the worse and more sensational the articles...

I've been a reader since the *very* early "red-and-white" days, and this just isn't the same site. Maybe because of the comptetition? Broken links, that Rev. A story, silly virus stories, the *Entertainment Weekly* site's questionable compatibility???

It's looking more and more like a site run by college students in their spare time. And that's a real shame.

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02/19, 08:51am | report spam | close Reply | delete
MacNN Continued

Oh, and lest you think I'm not going to sign my name...

Scott Adams

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02/19, 10:04am | report spam | close Reply | delete
just don't see it

I've been reading MacNN for years and it's only gotten better. I don't see what you are saying Scott--not even in the least.

Broken Links? Where? I talked to a staff member and usually MacNN gets the story up before the site is updated, so there is a problem there. Silly Virus stories? I don't remember reading that. Like I said before the Newer story is/was a mistake.

Jeremy.

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02/19, 11:06am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Sites OK w. Netscape 4.76

No problems viewing either EWeekly or the Grammy sites with Communicator 4.76 and Mac OS 9.1 on a Ti PBook. I'm at the Nikko Hotel in SF going thru their broadband connection (thru ethernet and DHCP -- Nikko has a Mac friendly Net connection; thru PPP as well!!!)

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02/19, 02:02pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
RE: MacNN

I know what you mean, Scott. Broken links happen all too often on this site. In fact, there's a running joke around our web department -- when a link breaks during our *testing* phase, we call it a "macnn link," as in, "Who macnn-ed this f#%$ing link??"

Jeremy, if you've been using this site for awhile, you can't deny that, more than any other site, MacNN's links are incorrect, can you?

And to get back on topic, the EW "article" was *completely* ridiculous! How about this for a feature, MacNN--there was a badly animated GIF on a Geocities site that I'm having trouble with on my Mac...Don't worry about testing it on a PC (surely you've got one around there for testing, right?), just put the article on the site! We gotta mobilize!

Did somebody in charge leave?

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02/19, 10:24pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Broken Links, etc.

Heh, I just don't see broken links. There must be 30-50 stories a day. I click on about a 1/3 (most of them, enough info is provided, so I don't have to, that's why I come here :). Everyone in a while, I go to site that hasn't been updated (usually when the link is under the company name). More rarely, I notice a typo in the link (extra space, wrongly pasted text, etc.). I really think you guys are just being overly critical. At least a dozen people have verified problems with the site (crashes, etc.) and yet we still have people questioning this story.

I find it pretty suspicious, that no one (except Scott) has bothered to sign their name and even fewer have posted their email address. Makes me think it's one or two people posting these negative remarks.

EW's site, which the story reports, still crashes at least 3 of my Macs and is extremely slow to load (compared with my Windows PC). So the article wasn't the most breaking news, but it could have prompted some productive discussion on Java/cross-platform issues and also about other unfriendly Mac sites. Instead we have one or two people whining about broken links and "shoddy journalism."

Just seems that for all we take from the site, the least we could offer is constructive criticism. As far as the posters who have nothing but bad experiences at MacNN, remember you don't have to visit. Something must bring you back :)

As far as your internal Web team joke, it's just ridiculous. Either you spend too much time at MacNN or your work humor needs help. I read this site and it does a fine job.

Jeremy Mia

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02/19, 10:38pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
criticism

Jeremy thanks for all of your support. I appreciate the kind words and the honorable defense.

"Hanky Panky" author: your post is still here. If it was deleted before (which I doubt), then you've got your words in now. Are there any other instances in the recent past which you think deserve mention. The more examples, the better. (I note that you still haven't mentioned your name.)

Scott, re "Broken Links". That's a tough call. Most of the time, when an article is posted, the site is not updated. We usually can't check a site every several minutes to wait for it to be updated until we post. So we usually put a generic link under the company name (or under product with a note at the end of the story indicating the 'site [is] not updated'). Some sites don't even allow you to link directly to the product pages. That presents a problem. I, however, agree that this is not monitored closely enough, as some user session-oriented links end up in news items. I am working to weed these out, but it requires a fine eye and for our editors to be on the ball with every posting all the time. Some times given the deluge of news, this is not as good as it should be. We are trying to fix this.

I don't understand what the fuss is here, though. Several people have verified the issue and so have I (on a few different Macs). EW's site is just not friendly to IE on the Mac, as many different people confirm. You can, however, surf it on a different browser or different platform, but that was not the point of the news item. It was to point out that this will likely crash IE for the Mac.

Like I said, specific examples can be mailed to me or editor@macnn.com directly and I always respond to criticisms, if I feel that they are specific and justified. Jeremy is right, though. The negative posts above seem to originate from a very small handful of people.

best,
monish
mkbhatia@macnn.com

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11/30, 02:19am | report spam | close Reply | delete
no problem here...

IE 5, OS 9.1, G4 350. cable.
loads OK, can move around it ok... *shrug*

as for MacNN: if you don't like it, go away. I have never found broken links or any of the other shite one person is whining about. Good site, keep up the good work. MacNN is my home page....

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Websites tested on Macs?

updated 04:20 pm EST, Sat February 17, 2001

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Who Cares!

hmm

icab

Maybe?

Grammy.com

certainly is a problem

same here

disapearing content

Misc. Issues

Mozilla

uh

no problem

Crashed my iMac

Is this really for MNN?

Browsers are free...

I had the same problem

Entertainment tonight

Layers

works fine for me

No problems here

ew.com DOES cause freezes

crashes my system

Hanky Panky??

re: Hanky Panky??

268 Errors on the Page

worked fine for me

OS X browsers

simple

All can be explained...

EW isn't ignorant of Mac

Hanky Panky...FOR SURE!

Web: access for all?

EW w/iCab; journalism

Vignette StoryServer SUX

Hanky Panky, redux.

Ignore Hanky Panky

re: Hanky Panky

MacNN

MacNN Continued

just don't see it

Sites OK w. Netscape 4.76

RE: MacNN

Broken Links, etc.

criticism

no problem here...

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