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Apple serves DMCA notice to OSx86

updated 09:30 am EST, Fri February 17, 2006

Apple serves DMCA notice

Apple is moving to prevent further discussion of running its Mac OS X operating system on generic Intel-based machines. Apple's legal team has notified OSx86 Project--a site dedicated to getting Mac OS X running on machines not non-Apple-branded machines--that it is in violation of the US DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act), forcing the site to close down its user forms and post notice. "We're sorry to report that despite our best efforts, the OSx86 Project has been served with a DMCA violation notice. The forum will be unavailable while we evaluate its contents to remove any violations present. We thank you for your patience in this matter." Apple has gone through extensive efforts to develop and install technology to prevent users from running Mac OS X on computers other than Macs; however, hackers have been able to successfully work around many of the security mechanisms in the operating system and recently posted instructions and discussion of how to alter Mac OS X 10.4.4 to run on generic Intel's. Earlier this week, the OSx86 wesite noted a secret poem from Apple that urged hackers not to work around Mac OS X security mechanisms.

by MacNN Staff

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GORDYmac
Mac Elite

Joined: Dec 1999

0

02/17, 10:18am | report spam | close Reply |
Idiots

OSx86, why do you think you were shut down? For all intents and purposes, this poem was Apple's "trip wire", and you just stepped on it.

Next time, don't be so giddy about your accomplishments...idiots.

jhorvatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

0

02/17, 11:12am | report spam | close Reply |
This is to be expected

This is to be expected. I myself wouldn't think Apple would just let them do what ever they want. There poem gives poetic warning not to mess with it. But some people never listen. Then brag about it on the internet is just plain dumb!

aergern
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

02/17, 11:23am | report spam | close Reply |
Get read to RUUUUMBLE!

This is going to be an on going fight from now on. There are a lot of people who'd like to use OS X but won't/can't pay the premium cost for Apple branded hardware.. and that's all it is now.. branding. The insides are effectively a PeeCee. Not that I don't think Apple should be able to charge what they want.. I'll buy a new MacBook to replace my Powerbook when it's time.. but they shouldn't blow smoke up our a** and say it's "better" hardware. It's the same stuff.. the only difference is the software and support.

apple4ever
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2001

0

02/17, 11:26am | report spam | close Reply |
Stupid

We really need to get rid of the DMCA. There shouldn't be a problem to do. Copyrights in this country are messed up. As long as the software is paid for, nobody should be prevented from using it how they want. This doesn't mean that the company has to support it, but it should be allowed.

This is only a minor step any way. Soon a website will be hosted in another country, where Apple can't get to with stupid laws like the DMCA, and work will continue.

jonbwfc1
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2003

0

02/17, 11:36am | report spam | close Reply |
hrmph

Patching an OS to allow it to be used outside it's normal licencing conditions is illegal and was illegal before the DCMA. All that the DCMA has done in this case is provide an 'offense' which is trivially easy to prove and therefore saved Apple's lawyers a couple of hours of argument. My comment is this : if you want to buy a copy of Tiger and tinker with it until it works on your PC, fine. The moment you put that information onto a public website, given the availability of pirate copies of the OS, you are doing Apple harm. Before, even if you pirated the OS you still ahd to buy a mac so apple were still, to some degree, compensated for their work. If you can get a pirate copy of Tiger and install it on any old PC, Apple aren't being compensated for their work. If you're telling someone how to do that, you're an accessory to the crime. the DCMA has nothing to do with it.

legacyb4
Mac Elite

Joined: May 2001

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02/17, 11:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Acceptable Actions

While the practice of hacking, pirating, and cracking software exists regardless of platform, it should be no surprise that when such attempts are blatantly made public that the original owner of the software take action against the perpetrators.

While comments on Digg and other forums indicate that people are "pissed" at the way that Apple is handling it, why would they expect different?

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

0

02/17, 11:47am | report spam | close Reply |
STUPID

The issue of running OSX on a generic box is really not an issue. No major player will ever do it. Only the technogeeks.

The bottom line is that Apple is being an A-hole about this. Instead of embracing the hacker community, they offend it. Isn't this how Microsoft got the attention of all those virus writers?

I remember the day when the MacPlus was the machine. I also remember the same day when Apple was the most arrogant company on earth, refusing to even give rudimentary technical support, instead referring you to their local retailer who often didn't know squat about the machines.

My point is, Apple requires a buzz. Many hackers out there are in positions of importance: i.e. they influence alot of things in the I.T. world. Yea, ego's are at work here. Apple: dont bruise the ego of the hacker with your over protective ego. Let them run wild.

The bottom line, Apple will only support OSX on Apple hardware. Everything else is unsupported, and will never make a dent in the real market.

All the other techno-legal reasons supporting Apple are reallly moot.

Horsepoo!!!
Banned

Joined: Jun 2003

0

02/17, 12:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
ronjamin

You're wrong. Apple has no choice but to enforce it because if they don't, they look weak and the give off the impression that they can be toyed with.

I think it's good that the hackers and Apple are battling it out. It'll make OS X more secure in the long run.

Horsepoo!!!
Banned

Joined: Jun 2003

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02/17, 12:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
aergern

Apple has never made claim that the hardware is better.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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02/17, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
horsepoo

You're wrong. Apple has no choice but to enforce it because if they don't, they look weak and the give off the impression that they can be toyed with.

No, no, no. Its not a "you'll look like a wimp if you don't fight back" ego trip. Its a "if you let it go, and then try to squash it (or something similar) later, it can be argued that you implicitly allowed the action by not complaining about it, so its OK for others to do it too".

Basically, you can't pick and choose, you either fight them all, or let them all go and run amok!

I think it's good that the hackers and Apple are battling it out. It'll make OS X more secure in the long run.

hahahahahahaha! That's funny. All it will do is make OS X more secure against running on non-Mac hardware. It won't make it "more secure", as I doubt this is going to aid apple in finding security holes in their OS.

Apple has never made claim that the hardware is better.

No, but it seems all the mac-fans do. "Why would you want to run OS X on a PC, when you can get a oooh, so nice looking mac for just $500 more with less features and abilities then the PC you're trying to run it on!"

(BTW, the Dell computer sitting next to my G5 has 3 times as many USB ports on it then the G5, has room for 2 optical drives, four hard SATA drives, PCIExpress video (mac only does AGP, I bought it in april), and room for expansion. And the Dell 20" monitor (cost, $500) is connected to both computers since it has four (that's right, 4!) video inputs, has USB ports on it (connected to the mac, since it lacks enough of them), and can do picture in picture if, for some reason, I wanted it. The mac, well, it looks nice, I guess, although it weighs a ton, so it generally stays hidden under the desk and I never look at it. If I had my choice, I'd rather the Mac was functional and expandable for less money, rather then spending the premium for something that 'looks good'.

rwahrens1952
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2006

0

02/17, 01:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
horsepoo

Sorry, but you need to go back and look at Apple's adds over the years. The one thing they have consistently (as have most Apple users) bragged about IS the reliability of Apple products.

I've run Apple computers for years 24/7 without failures, and a big bragging point in most Mac forums is the length of one's run time since last restart.

Sorry 'bout that, but Apple really DOES have better machines!

ibugv4
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

0

02/17, 01:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
uptime, apple, the future

First off: uptime. How many of you brag about your use of OS X for months and months and then Office starts behaving irradically? Well, it happens here a lot. We mandate weekly restarts and advocate daily ones. We're power users, NO COMPUTER can stand up to what a scientists will throw at it and not have some crippling type of hiccup after a week. It ain't happening. For the record, I had a user who stayed logged in for 9 months, 20 days and 18 and a half hours. She finally, finally, lost all her Jaguar printers and had to restart. Word also grayed out the quit button, but save and print worked so she kept working with it.

As for OS X on Intel... Apple's designs are sucking. badly. I hate them all. The G5 is too big, too bulky. Needs to be 1/2 the weight and 1/3 the size, they CAN do it and keep all it's expansion.

The iMac is a rip off of the Gateway all in one.

The iBook and PowerBooks are nice but worn out; they need a refresh. I'm also somewhat allergic to aluminum (my hands become extremly dry), so I'd like them to use another metal (titanium never gave me a problem).

The price for design is outrageous; and I would rather throw together a cheap $300 China-parts-house PC and stick it in my car's glovebox and use THAT as an in-car GPS system with OS X on it, but instead I have to settle for a Mac Mini or beahead an iBook/PowerBook and neither of those options give me the type of power that a little China-Intel cube PC can give. Sorry, but the fact of the matter with the Intel move is that it's JUST the OS. At this point I PRAY Apple licenses the OS -- AGAIN -- to Dell and others just so that they own the MARKET on OS and they can become a true Sony sporting hot electronics AND computers designed to be a complete widget. Think the AOL 9.0 Optomized PC that was for sale at CompUSA 2 years ago.

The hackers will keep going, if Apple makes them mad enough we'll start to see REAL viruses that don't need the user to authenticate to infect and wreak havoc. That will be Apple's final downfall. Fight fire with fire if you wish, Apple... one thing you should learn is to LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS... you do it with iPod and the iTunes store, you've kept the $.99 price point and we thank you. Now open up your freaking OS and stop making me feel like your GNU agreement when installing software is just to make you feel better in your million dollar pajama while your cralwed up in bed at night.

yah, i'm bitter. if you worked with end users and apple support you'd be upset too.

kuehnem
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2003

0

02/17, 02:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Host the site elsewhere

Just move the site to some country where the DCMA does not apply. How about Ukraine? They banned DVD ripping tools in the U.S. as well as Germany, so now all one has to do is go to a site that's hosted somewhere else - and all is well again.;-)

Jonathan-Tanya
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

0

02/17, 02:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
disagree

quote"...was illegal before the DCMA. All that the DCMA has done in this case...saved Apple's lawyers a couple of hours of argument"

That's an absurd way of describing the DMCA. This massive, absurd, overbearing piece of work was years in the making, with both sides fighting vigorously...and it was never about saving a company's lawyers a couple hours of legal argument.

The DMCA destroys all balance and common sense. If Apple fails its contract, virtually nothing is going to result. If you break the license, you could be a felon. You can lose everything you have, and never vote again, for the rest of your life, no forgiveness ever... for simply misreading a licensing agreement.

You know, licensing agreements could be enforced before...I'll grant you that. The DMCA is an abomination.

Jonathan-Tanya
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

0

02/17, 02:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ukraine

" Just move the site to some country where the DCMA does not apply. How about Ukraine?"

Because Ukraine wouldn't allow that. As a frequent visitor to Ukraine, I can tell you in the past two years they've shut down pirate after pirate. They are on a quest to join the EU.

Yes...a few years ago you could buy Hollywood movies, obvious copies, right at the Boryspol... but not anymore, you will have a heck of a time finding anything out in public.

You must be thinking of Russia...they still have some work to do.

Jonathan-Tanya
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

0

02/17, 02:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
hmm

Quote: "if you let it go, and then try to squash it (or something similar) later, it can be argued that you implicitly allowed the action by not complaining about it, so its OK for others to do it too".

No. I don't think this is for precedent, I think they chose this site to shut down, because they wanted it shut down, its exactly the type of site they wanted closed, and exactly the reason they support the DMCA.

Straightforward, nothing hidden on that one.

ApeInTheShell
Senior User

Joined: Nov 2002

0

02/17, 03:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hackers vs. Apple vs. MS

Hackers expose security flaws in operating systems and software by the use of force. They use information and knowledge to manipulate companies and people into meeting their demands. I would go as far to call them techno terrorists. Hackers do a diservice to the computing community by developing worms, viruses, malware and other traps to 'suppossedly' expose security flaws. In reality, this interrupts the day to day operations of professionals and consumers. We place hackers on pedestals like they are our saviors for finding bugs in Windows and Mac OS X. They are really just an annoyance. Apple and Microsoft do not work for hackers and therefore do not owe the hacker community anything! In response to the price of the iMac, since when hasn't a Wintel user complained about that aspect? Apple computer makes hardware and software. Their computers are popular because Apple takes the time to design their computers. It isn't just the same old. You can buy a Mac Mini. It is $499. Where is the premium? Where?! Huh?! That's what I thought.

aergern
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

02/17, 03:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
horsepoo

"Apple has never made claim that the hardware is better."

Then they'd better lower the price. When one can get a Dell with close to the same specs and run Linux on it.. the only difference becomes OS X. SO why not just charge less for the hardware and up the cost of OS X to $600-900 which is the price difference.. if that's the difference between a Dell laptop and a Macbook. ;D

Or Apple could give tons of demos away with the Macbook that we'll have to delete and those companies can pay the extra grand just like they do for Dell to bring their price point down. *shrug*

JedJed
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2006

0

02/17, 03:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
not non-Apple-branded

"...dedicated to getting Mac OS X running on machines not non-Apple-branded machines"

What is wrong with getting OS X to run on Apple computers?

bdmarsh
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2006

0

02/17, 04:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
"Apple Premium Pricing"

so far on the intel Mac models (which have introduced at the same price as the previous PowerPC based models) are costing the same as "PC's" with the same hardware inside.

yes you can configure a laptop from dell to be cheaper (and the default price is usually less) but if you put in the same amount & type of ram, same speed hard drive etc... you come out with a price within about $100 on either side (sometimes more, sometimes less)

I've done comparisons with the core duo laptops from Dell, Gateway, Acer so far, and there is no "Apple Premium"

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

02/17, 05:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: hackers vs

Apple computer makes hardware and software. Their computers are popular because Apple takes the time to design their computers. It isn't just the same old. You can buy a Mac Mini. It is $499. Where is the premium? Where?! Huh?! That's what I thought.

Well, they kind of make hardware, and they kind of make software (kind of, in the sense that they make it, but it would be nice if they made it less troublesome). Well, for $499 you get a two-year old computer with no expansion or update possibilities (except memory and perhaps HD if you dare to try to take it apart, not an easy task), slow harddrive, slow CD drive, and limited output potential (just stereo output, maybe it has a modem though, not sure). Oh, and it comes without a keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

I guess you look at the price and say "See, they make a cheap computer! So it can't be premium priced!" but it sure seems like they're charging a lot for the tech that you get.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

02/17, 05:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: premium pricing

so far on the intel Mac models (which have introduced at the same price as the previous PowerPC based models) are costing the same as "PC's" with the same hardware inside.

Man, I always hate that "same hardware inside" argument. Gee, that's great. But here's something. I can probably get a Dell without a useless but costly built-in iSight camera. And one with a modem built-in (along with S-video, if I desire), rather then through easy-to-lose dongles. And one with a PC Card slot to use my existing hardware in (what do mac users care about throwing out all their existing peripherals every time they buy a new computer?). Or go for one that allows for more than one battery.

Most importantly is that you can configure that Dell laptop to get to the Apple specs if you want to, or not want to. Meanwhile, Apple has these options for configuration: Memory, Harddrive. That's it. That's the list.

BTW, I'd also like to point out that you can go cheap on the Dell, then go out and buy replacement parts as you need them. Want a bigger harddrive? No problem. Just go to NewEgg or somewhere, buy one cheap, pop out the old one and stick in a new one in like 2 minutes. Same with the optical drive. You can complain about their style (or lack thereof), but they are a breeze to update compared to apple's closed in notebooks.

Apple gives you a fixed, expensive computer that you either like and buy or live without. PC manufacturers give their customers choice. You can decide you need small and lean, or big and boisterous.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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02/17, 05:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
One other thing

One other thing PC manufacturers have going for them is naming. They know how to name a freakin' computer. Apple has 4+ years of iBooks. They're all just called "iBook". So if you have a problem, you need to know how Apple calls your system (though they don't tell you that when you buy it). I bought a PowerMac last april. But is it a PowerMac (early 2005) or a PowerMac (Late 2004)? I bought it in early 2005, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an older model. And in two years time, will I still remember when I bought it and what type it is?

kw99
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

02/17, 09:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Legal Choices

Here are the LEGAL choices regarding Mac OS X.

1. You choose to use Mac OS X on Apple Macintosh hardware.

2. You choose to not to use Mac OS X.

There is no option 3. Apple has no obligation to give you option 3, and it is not in the best interests of Apple and its shareholders to do so, or to imply it is OK to do so through inaction. It's that simple...

Monstermind
Junior Member

Joined: May 2000

0

02/17, 10:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
s**** Steve

I don't recognize the DCMA's authority. They can cram it sideways.

CaliforniaMac
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

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02/21, 08:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Way to go Apple!

Open Source code is by its very nature, commoditized. That means it is available to everyone and easily obtainable. So if you are selling and operating system to compete against Windows and that operating system uses a lot of public domain code, even if you greatly add value with elaborate Application Frameworks, GUIs and legacy Emulators, you are ALWAYS going to be no more than 2-3 years away from being "run-over" by a wild pack of Academics, Eastern Europeans and Asians who have no other choice but to trade time (developing kock-offs of your value-added features) for money (spent on buying your product). Because Apple knew this fact long before they chose to succeed Mac OS 9 with a platform based on commoditized public domain software, they must have had some other idea to make a profit.

Forgetting about Apple per se for the moment, the only way that I can think of for one to make money off of someone else's Open Source / Public Domain software is to bundle it with Services (consulting, support, quality assurance); bundle it with Hardware (Macs, WalmartPCs, DELL/HP/IBM servers, web-hosting); via Packaging, Distribution and Promotion (using Ad-sponsored Bandwidth/Forums/trade-shows, DVD boxed sets, etc..), by downloading it in your bedroom and re-selling it on a $2 website to unsuspecting business people (like an "actual" ODBC driver) or some combination of these (subscription services, etc.).

So the problem of their operating system being enabled to run on their competitor's hardware is obvious. They already chose to commit to using an operating system that only offers a 24-36 month lead on the freeware alternatives (because it is itself based on freeware) and so the only way they have of remaining a going concern is to profit from their hardware sales & support services (.mac, etc..), to come out with hardware that is compelling enough to overcome the Wintel monopoly, to transition to a proprietary platform (like WindowsNT's kernel) or to _bank_ on their ability to constantly remain 24-36 months ahead of the hundreds of thousands of Asain, Eastern European and Academic hackers who are even now benefitting from development tools (Eclipse, etc..) being subsidized by Apple's US competitors, or some combination of these strategies.

So as a long-time Apple customer (1977!), I strongly support Apple's efforts to reign in the ability of their operating system to run on non-Apple hardware and hope they take some steps in the other directions noted too! Way to go Apple!

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Apple serves DMCA notice to OSx86

updated 09:30 am EST, Fri February 17, 2006

Apple serves DMCA notice

Idiots

This is to be expected

Get read to RUUUUMBLE!

Stupid

hrmph

Acceptable Actions

STUPID

ronjamin

aergern

horsepoo

horsepoo

uptime, apple, the future

Host the site elsewhere

disagree

Ukraine

hmm

Hackers vs. Apple vs. MS

horsepoo

not non-Apple-branded

"Apple Premium Pricing"

Re: hackers vs

re: premium pricing

One other thing

Legal Choices

s**** Steve

Way to go Apple!

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Apple serves DMCA notice to OSx86

updated 09:30 am EST, Fri February 17, 2006

Apple serves DMCA notice

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Idiots

This is to be expected

Get read to RUUUUMBLE!

Stupid

hrmph

Acceptable Actions

STUPID

ronjamin

aergern

horsepoo

horsepoo

uptime, apple, the future

Host the site elsewhere

disagree

Ukraine

hmm

Hackers vs. Apple vs. MS

horsepoo

not non-Apple-branded

"Apple Premium Pricing"

Re: hackers vs

re: premium pricing

One other thing

Legal Choices

s**** Steve

Way to go Apple!

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