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Jobs lured consumers into "hardware trap"

updated 12:50 pm EDT, Tue August 23, 2005

Napster CEO on iPod

Napster President Brad Duea claims that Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer has "tricked people into buying a hardware trap." Duea, to digital music, points out that the iPod can only play songs with copy protection from iTunes, and that iTunes songs can only be played on an iPod. "The dream is that Napster would work on any PC, any player in any territory and work seamlessly," Duea stated. These factors are becoming increasingly important, because things are changing. The online music industry will become an "exploding multi-billion dollar space in the next two years," according to Duea. Currently the global music market rakes in 33 billion per year, and in the first half of 2005 the online music market accounted for about five-percent of all sales, according to the report from the BBC.

by MacNN Staff

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adamschneider
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 1999

0

08/23, 01:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
trap?

Whereas requiring people to keep paying monthly fees for the rest of their lives isn't a trap at ALL....

Aaron
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 1999

0

08/23, 01:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oh no!

Oh no! I bought a piece of hardware I'm thrilled with and which uses a music store that meets 99% of my needs! I bought the de facto standard in music playback devices! I've been tricked! And trapped! Damn them! I'm so stupid! How could I fall for this?

PS - Once again, someone needs to point out to yet another CEO that "only play[s] songs with copy protection from iTunes, and that iTunes songs can only be played on an iPod" isn't true. MP3 files play fine on my iPod, and "iTunes songs", which include MP3s and other formats, aren't limited to the iPod. Why don't any of these lazy reporters call these idiots on their FUD?

Waffle House
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Joined: Sep 2002

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08/23, 01:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
for mac

and where is napster for mac? nowhere, like i thought. (your not switching me from itunes)

Sondjata
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08/23, 02:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Nap for Mac

". "The dream is that Napster would work on any PC, any player in any territory and work seamlessly," Duea stated. These factors are becoming increasingly important, because things are changing."

Yet and still no Mac OS X Nap client. No Linux Nap Client.

ATPTourFan
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Joined: Apr 2003

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08/23, 02:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Oh no!

Aaron, I believe the CEO's are speaking only about DRM'd music such as .m4p purchased iTunes tracks and WMA files from other music services like theirs.

I am certain they know that any MP3s, AAC (.m4a), Apple Lossless, WAV, AIFF, etc can be played on any player out there. The issue is with the closed DRM scheme.

Of course, as a very happy first generation iPod (Dec '03) user (and YES my battery still works!), I've got no complaints because I still have access to the best service using the best hardware.

Aaron
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 1999

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08/23, 02:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Oh no!

ATPTourFan,

I realize that these guys know that the iPod supports non-DRM songs. But the way they speak of it, they purposely side-step that fact and phrase their statements to imply that the iPod only plays DRM'd songs from iTunes. It's FUD, plain and simple. He did say that the iPod "only play[s] songs with copy protection from iTunes". That's unambiguous.

ddukes
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

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08/23, 02:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: re: Oh no!

No, this issue isn't anything related to closed DRM schemes. Napster knows that the iPod can play multiple formats. Their issue is that their ship is continuing to sink and other music stores just aren't enjoying the success Apple is.

The reason why Apple has so much success with the iTMS is because it's cross-platform and it's trendy. Two things others don't have or seem to ever have a plan to.

dweebert
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08/23, 02:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
On any PC?

Funny, Napster won't work on my favoured PC at any time. I get the following message:

> We're sorry, Napster is not currently compatible with your operating > system.

> Napster is currently compatible with Windows XP/2000. > Windows 95, Windows NT and the Mac OS are not supported > at this time.

iTunes and iTMS-downloaded songs work both on my Mac PC and my Windows PC.

elvis2000
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Jan 2003

0

08/23, 02:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Right...

You mean switch from the Apple "hardware trap" to the Microsoft hardware trap? Creative, Archos, & Rio all use the same Microsoft DRM for subscription services. Not exactly "choice" when the hardware choices on the other end are undifferentiated under the hood.

And until Napster/Yahoo/etc (all the same technology) are available on the Mac... so much for working on any PC, etc etc. What a bunch of c***.

kaleberg
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Joined: Jan 2004

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08/23, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
sour grapes

It sounds like sour grapes to me. Napster also does lockin, except that Microsoft owns the WMA lock.

Besides, does anyone actually play a protected AAC? I always burn them to CD and remove the DRM first. What if I want movie or slide show background music that I can export? I presume that I am losing music quality, but I haven't met anyone yet who has noticed.

kuzelnik
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Joined: Mar 2000

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08/23, 02:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Smoking crack

He's on crack....

Just like buying a CDMA phone locks you into using it only in the US (not like GSM), yet CDMA is the most popular system in the US...

The point is....if it's what the people want, give it to them. Welcome to a free market society...

webraider
Forum Regular

Joined: Nov 2004

0

08/23, 02:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wrong

"The iPod can only play songs with copy protection from iTunes"

This comment is from Napster and if it is correct they are 100 percent wrong. The Ipod can play songs from any source provided that they are mp3, Aiff, AAC, Wave, And Apple Loss-Less! The ipod plays more format than any other digital players on the market thus I hesitate to call it an MP3 Player. People still buy CD's these days (something I continue to do if I really want to keep the music).

The same could be said of the new player coming out from Creative that supports the Microfost Only downloaded Music. Everyone is trying to catch up to what Apple has made standard. Microsoft really doesn't do anything innoovative but stand on other peoples shoulders and market the idea.

Maybe things will eventually change so that Microsoft can innovate for a change.

cartoonspin
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Joined: Sep 2003

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08/23, 02:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Misguided Mouth

I have heard and read about this guy before. He is a complete joke with a company that continues to lose business. Naptster will be gone in about a year according to leading business experts.

We only have a little while longer to listen to him blow hot air. Quite frankly, the Apple solution has provided the music industry a second wind. What has the new napster provided?

Still waiting for that one...

dona83
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Joined: Jun 2005

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08/23, 02:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hm

You can use protected music directly in iMovie and iPhoto afaik.

I sent feedback to Napster telling them that until they make Napster Mac compatible, stop bashing Apple.

abrody
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

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08/23, 02:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um...MPEG-3 AIFF...

MPEG-3, AIFF, Apple Lossless, unprotected AAC all supported by the iPod too. Not just Apple's protected format. And unprotected AAC is also supported by several open source players as well as the Radioshark.

Napster? What happens to my music if your service goes out of business? Will I be able to still play it?

MacJeeper
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Joined: Jun 2005

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08/23, 03:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
What?

May be I am being unrealistic, but as a Mac user I only have one choice. Like it has been stated in other comments all others services use Micro$oft DRM (WAV or WMA) which is not compatible with my Mac. Also there is that other one, what is called oh yeah REAL, not compatible with my mac either. My concern is what is worse, a software trap or a hardware trap?

ADeweyan
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08/23, 03:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
If this is trapped...

... then so be it.

Apple is not trapping anyone. Apple is not creating the walls around iPod/iTunes users -- it's the other music services building layer upon layer of players that are rich in features but poor in user experience, and music stores that are harder to use, more restrictive and more confusing than iTunes.

As soon as another company comes out with a player/store combination that is easier to use (not just with a longer feature list), then Apple will be in trouble. That has not come close to happening.

ff11
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Joined: Apr 2004

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08/23, 03:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Oh no!

ATPTourFan,

The point is that Duea was caught in a bold faced lie. He's not an idiot. He COULD have come out and said "Apple's hardware plays pretty much everything except Microsoft's proprietary DRM", but that wouldn't have had the desired effect. So he knowingly and intentionally lied. He got caught.

ff11
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Joined: Apr 2004

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08/23, 03:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: What?

Do you know for a fact that there is a player out there that gives you more choices than the iPod? Is there one that is compatible with multiple DRMs? Or would you just like to be in someone else's much smaller trap?

just a poster
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Joined: Jun 2004

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08/23, 03:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ah, but what napster

fails to mention is that its content doesn't work on an iPod and is not truly an open solution. For example, Napster's distribution scheme does not work with any browser other than Internet Explorer for Windows, the music is incompatible with any computer-based player but Windows Media Player for Windows and finally, that its content cannot be downloaded to any MP3 player but one specified by Microsoft as compatible.

Napster may support a wider breadth of hardware MP3 players, but when is the industry going to learn? The hardware is disposable: it is the purchased content which must be portable to more platforms than Windows alone.

zachs
Mac Elite

Joined: May 2002

0

08/23, 04:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not just the iPod

Actually I can burn a CD and re-rip my iTMS songs into MP3s (or AAC, WAV, or Apple Lossless) and play them on any player I want.

Funny, though, that Napster is criticizing a company's "lack" of support when they themselves only support Windows. Last I checked, iTunes runs on Mac OS AND Windows.

zac4mac
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

08/23, 05:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Brad's a tool

I really wonder why I'm bustin' my hind end for 50k a year when dolts like this guy are pullin down 6 or 7 figures as CEOs and the like. Get a freakin clue Brad. All PCs, right. As long as they're running XP or Win2k. No Mac, Linux, Win95 or NT. Somebody should show him a definition of "universal".

Zack

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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08/23, 05:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Two points

"The dream is that Napster would work on any PC, any player in any territory and work seamlessly," Duea stated. These factors are becoming increasingly important, because things are changing. The online music industry will become an "exploding multi-billion dollar space in the next two years,"

Well, the problem I have is that Napster content won't play on any PC, in any player, nor in any territory. You're limited in Napster computers based on the OS you're running (2000/XP only-at least iTunes and iTMS content plays on more computers then Napster). You're limited in player to those that support MS's DRM scheme (you need to look for the MS "Ready to Play" or "Sure play" or some crappy thing like that to make sure your player will play music content from online stores). And the territory is limited by whoever has deals with whatever recording industry.

But he did say it was a dream! I mean, my dream is that Napster would finally just die and go away. Personally, I think my dream is more realistic.

As to Adam's comment, Whereas requiring people to keep paying monthly fees for the rest of their lives isn't a trap at ALL....

You don't have to buy a subscription. You can buy music just like you can at the iTMS, so there isn't a trap there, so to speak. Sure, you have the other traps, but not a subscription trap. Oh, and if its a subscription, the beauty would be that you could drop your Napster subscription and pick one up from MS when, you know, Napster goes out of business. If Apple went out of business, you're in for some trouble with your music. (Of course, if you bought music from napster, you probably would be in some trouble from them, too).

freakboy2
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Oct 2002

0

08/23, 06:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
um..

can napster work with my ipod.. NO..

now stfu and sit down.

Okonomiyaki
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Joined: Apr 2003

0

08/23, 06:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
He's right, people!

Better listen to him, this isn't the first time this has happened in this industry. I remember about 15 years ago, Sony tricked me. They convinced me to buy this thing they called a "CD player" that played only a certain kind of plastic disc. Well, it turned out that, in order to use it, I had to buy some of those plastic discs but those things weren't useful to me in any other way except playing in these specially made "CD player" devices. I won't buy any device again until I can be assured that it will play any music I want in any format ever used or that ever will be used in the future.

Also, if you're such an idealist about where your service will work, how about distributing your files as MP3s? Last time I checked, they work just about everywhere.

alfredo
Forum Regular

Joined: Jul 1999

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08/23, 06:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
So What?

People don't care what format their music come in. All they care about is listening to their music, and being seen listening to their music.

spazzlor
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Joined: Jan 2001

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08/23, 06:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sour Grapes Indeed

This is typical PC/Microsoft waaaay behind-the-loop criticism of a superior and innovative model that they could not have possibly envisioned. And of course, now they want "in" on the goods.

What buckets of pus these guys are - if it were up to them, we would still all be listening to 8-tracks (and paying them $42 bucks a tape).

jhorvatic
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Joined: Apr 2005

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08/23, 06:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fud plain and simple

This is just FUD plain and simple. Trying to confuse the people who are not informed and make iTunes look like some evil plot against the world. Yet they never mention the fact that iTunes is the only music store online that you can use with a Mac or PC. Or the fact that the iPod plays several different formats besides the DRM AAC. You can also import from your own collection of CD's as well. There is no trap. There is no lock and chain. And Apple is not forcing anyone to buy there products in the first place.

MayaMastery
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Joined: May 2005

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08/23, 07:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Think about it

These companies would be stupid to make mac clients, because they KNOW mac users, and they know they will not use something different than itunes in a majority of cases. Plus, they wouldnt be stupid enough to offer an inferior product on a superior platform, especially when itunes comes with every mac purchased. so since they like thier schemes so much, let them have it. And if anyone really feels "locked" in to apple, then anyone stupid enough to be locked in deserves it. they can just as eaisly just go buy the cd, or use another service that makes them happy. ultimately the choice is the consumers, and napster hates that napster isnt their choice, so they hypocritically hate that apple "locks" people in and that napster cant use their scheme to lock people in. if napster don't like it, then clean up your spilled milk and take that bannana out of your @$$ and quit |3itching about $h1t you dont have control over.

MayaMastery
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2005

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08/23, 07:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
how can they whine?

napster is whining about people using a service that they only make compatible with windows? if that aint the pot calling the kettle maroon i dunno what is 0�o.

ATPTourFan
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Joined: Apr 2003

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08/23, 07:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
ff11

"The iPod can only play songs with copy protection from iTunes"

The way I read this, he's saying that the only copy protected music the iPod can play is from iTunes, which is correct.

I just find it hard to believe that he would truly think that the iPod can only play DRM's iTunes purchased music, and NOTHING else.

Then again, he is the head of Napster....

shawnce
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Joined: Nov 2000

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08/23, 08:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
ATPTourFan

Again you are missing the point... YES the Napster CEO knows exactly what the iPod can and cannot play... it is the way he said things that is at issue.

It is easy for someone that doesn't know what the iPod can to read what he said as the "iPod can only play music with copy protection". He specifically said it in a way to make it confusing and the reporter didn't attempt to clarify it, which really should be done.

jpellino
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Joined: Oct 1999

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08/23, 09:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
The envelope please!

And the winner - of the Rob Glaser "We Came Late To The Dance With An Inferior Product And It's All Steve Job's Fault" Award is...

Brad Duea!

bigpoppa206
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

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08/23, 10:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
2 words...

Sour Grapes!

GORDYmac
Mac Elite

Joined: Dec 1999

0

08/23, 10:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Propaganda...

They're all saying the same thing (Dell, M$, Napster, Real) hoping that consumers believe the big lie--that the iPod only plays iTMS tracks. What they leave out is that they're 'solution' has no Mac support whatsoever.

MuppetFloss
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Joined: Aug 2005

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08/24, 06:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Other tricks

On subscriptions, Napster President Brad Duea claims: "Has owning cassettes in the past really benefited people? In many cases they have had to repurchase music in a new format."

So instead, it's better to purchase it again and again every month in the same format? Ever get the sense that someone is selling something they don't believe in?

Mr Duea says: "There are still people with a myopic view of music and are fearful of a cannibalistic effect of digital on their cash cow plastic retail business."

If CDs are a cash cow, then why are digital downloads so expensive, considering we've cut out much of the production costs, and all the distribution and packaging costs. The only service the music cartel can claim to provide is marketing and payola. Mr Duea seems to be suggesting that digital downloads are a much bigger cash cow than CDs ever were.

Considering the paltry returns iTMS is claiming after the music cartel takes their cut, it seems the only place Napster can make any money is by tricking people into paying a monthly subscription fee in perpetuity.

ibugv4
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Joined: Jun 2003

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08/24, 09:13am | report spam | close Reply |
iPod+iTunes

It's all about the i -- integration (of platforms, devices, and audio codecs) ... only Apple could do it.

Kazrog
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2002

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01/16, 04:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
What?

He's WRONG. As in NON-FACTUAL. The iPod can play just about any audio format out there, most of which have no DRM of any kind.

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Jobs lured consumers into "hardware trap"

updated 12:50 pm EDT, Tue August 23, 2005

Napster CEO on iPod

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