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Columnist downplays Tiger features, "innovation"

updated 07:30 pm EDT, Mon May 16, 2005

Innovation questioned

NewsFactor's Dave Kearns says Apple is "praised as an innovator" in situations where Microsoft would be "denounced as a ." With the latest released of Mac OS X, known as Tiger, Apple has incorporated several features seemingly inspired by third-party add-ons. "It appears that what Apple has done with Tiger is to take meaningful, desirable third-party services and applications and 'roll their own' inside the operating system, thus presenting users with a fuller package of features." The third parties that had been providing many Tiger-like features for Mac OS X as add-ons now "are left out in the cold." Kearns also claims all of Tiger's "revolutionary" features were already available from Microsoft Windows. "I guess it all depends on how you keep score."

by MacNN Staff

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mugwump
Junior Member

Joined: Feb 2000

0

05/16, 07:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
blech

*YAWN*

Please don't feed these trolls -- they get more hits from bogus mac articles than all their PC praise articles combined.

Ah, and to think that MacNN was almost part of the NewsFactorNN.

Zaren
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

05/16, 08:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
This is news?

Apple's done this since the System 7 days. One of my favorite third-party apps was one that put a clock in your menu bar...

MCroft
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2002

0

05/16, 08:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
�lways a good sign...

I love it when windows-cranks slam on the Mac. It only happens when they've been forced to pay attention.

ArcticBear
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2000

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05/16, 08:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Pathetic...

I thought it was going to be a Konfabulator/Dashboard rant but it didn't even get _that_ far.

Isn't Apple more likely to polish code, if not develop it themselves, where Microsoft would simply buy the company outright and turn their code into a bloated mess?

Microsoft is a _convicted_ monopolist. It makes all the difference.

cebritt
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Joined: Mar 2000

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05/16, 09:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Which is it?

Niche player or monopolist? It's hard to be both.

And what does Windows have that's like Spotlight? Google desktop? Puh-lease...

mblase
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Joined: May 2002

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05/16, 09:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

Microsoft is a monopolist because their OS runs over 90% of the desktop computers out there. Apple is not a monopolist because they don't. Simple as that.

As for "predatory"... well, yeah, it seems a bit nasty when any company copies another's features in their software. But EVERY company, in every business, does that. What's Apple going to do, stop improving their software because third-party shareware does the job almost as well?

:dragonflypro:
Senior User

Joined: Sep 2003

0

05/16, 09:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bitter Much?

This 'opinion' article is more like a snide sideway comment and it had not so much as a breath of truth or merit.

I am not aware of any technological comparison to Spotlight or Automator on windows. Dashboard seems to have more depth than Konfabulator and I am not privy to any other windows such app. I could go on, I won't.

Well, I guess when a competitors OS is truly outshining your monolith you get defensive.

T

ADeweyan
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Joined: Mar 2004

0

05/16, 09:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
SuperClock, Windowshade

Two of the old third-party Desk Accessories that Apple built into later versions of the system.

At least for Windowshade, I believe, they actually bought the software from the developer.

debohun
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Joined: Feb 1999

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05/16, 09:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
However...

Microsoft�s approach may make more sense then Apple's. When MS buys out a company, they remove a competitor, reduce their R&D costs, and they reward the third party's effort that went into developing for the Windows platform. Companies like ResNova have dollars from Microsoft for their efforts, even if their products end up dead, whereas companies like Pixoria/Konfabulator have nothing from Apple except a kick in the teeth. It would perhaps be better for Apple to get past their "not invented here" attitude and to make more external purchases. With billions sitting in the bank, the purchase of Connectix for Virtual PC would have been a better investment than letting Microsoft have that crucial piece of technology, and a merger with Macromedia could have strengthened the Mac platform, whereas the merger with Adobe has the potential to seriously weaken it. All of Apple's strategic energies seems to be going into their media efforts, which are paying off handsomely--however, the lack of strategic efforts in the software arena could come back to haunt all of us.

Steviant
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Joined: May 2003

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05/16, 09:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sad...

I wasn't aware that google desktop search was an API upgrade for windows that opened up instant search capabilities to all applications and added hooks into the NT kernel for third party plugins to NTFS to allow applications to index files instantly as they're added to the drive.

I wonder when Google and Microsoft got so close that Microsoft allowed them access to their NTFS source so that they could make a derivative. Way to foster competition Microsoft!

This shows that the US Dept. of Justice was all wrong about Microsoft, what a company!

I was also not aware that dashboard was only capable of viewing the yahoo stock ticker, or that the yahoo stock ticker was in fact a translucent layer that takes over your entire desktop and allows you to display all sorts of useful widgets that have nothing to do with Yahoo or stocks. Amazing!

What I'm really astounded about is how their webpage somehow managed to create that ripple effect, which I'm led to believe makes heavy use of pixel-shaders. Web developers, you need to start talking to Yahoo about how you can make full-screen translucent hardware-accellerated webpages that pop up when you press a key.

What a treasure-trove of information for me that news article was. I'll have to try pressing F12 to access the confusingly named Yahoo stock ticker next time I'm in Windows.

Meanwhile, everyone offering an instantly accessible indexed search for OS X must be crying into their cornflakes every morning since Apple crushed their business into dust. Oh wait. No one else was doing that were they?

ScottEllsworth
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Joined: Sep 2001

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05/16, 09:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple pays for software

Apple has a long standing policy of paying people to work on products, or for products they can then release. Paying people for ideas gets murky, unless they have an appropriate patent.

Had Apple shipped Konfabulator, Arlo and Co would have been paid for it. Had they hired Arlo and Co, they would have been paid. Since Apple was developing their own tool, and one that does not do the same thing as Konfabulator, I do not see why they should have paid Arlo for it.

This is exactly what MS did with ResNova and Connectix - paid for a product they wanted to relabel and ship.

Scott

bhuot
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05/16, 09:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: However

I'd like to see hard proof for a company that actually got re-imbersed for what they were worth from Microsoft. Usually they get the company to sign non-disclosure agreements and then steal their technology without paying a dime. At least Apple doesn't steal code. I personally don't want Apple to buy Virtual PC. I don't want to subsidize MS sellouts to run MS Office on the Mac or other viruses. I don't need virus compatibility so their is no need for me to have Windows compatibility. Apple also makes much better products than Macromedia or Adobe and why would they want their code when they can make something better. Adobe isn't going to last long if they keep snubbing Mac users. They are one of the last big companies left that make money off selling products for Windows and they won't survive long with M$'s new "innovations".

aer
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Joined: Mar 2004

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05/16, 09:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
WOW

you don't have to be a total r***** to see this story was written by the Microsoft PR lobby.

typoon
Addicted to MacNN

Joined: Oct 1999

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05/16, 10:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Another one?

"Kearns also claims all of Tiger's "revolutionary" features were already available from Microsoft Windows." Really is Dashboard already available on Windows? Uh not the last time I checked. Is Spotlight integrated into the OS? Not the last time I checked.

So that right there is a LIE. End of story. Not even going to give Newsfactor my click over to their site to read the article.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

05/16, 10:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Simple minds

"Microsoft is a monopolist because their OS runs over 90% of the desktop computers out there. Apple is not a monopolist because they don't. Simple as that."

And I predict you will not have a job in the legal or quantitative field either.

Apple is a monopoly. Being a monopoly is not illegal. Abuse of that power is, however.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

05/16, 10:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
For Steviant

Meanwhile, everyone offering an instantly accessible indexed search for OS X must be crying into their cornflakes every morning since Apple crushed their business into dust. Oh wait. No one else was doing that were they?

Guess again.

Quicksilver http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/

Doing an excellent job at it too.

:dragonflypro:
Senior User

Joined: Sep 2003

0

05/16, 10:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Quicksilver may search�

�but it is more like GoogleDesktop.

As cool as QS was/is, can we not iconize it into a cult app.

Spotlight is a system wide tool. QS is not.

T

barryjaylevine
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2003

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05/16, 11:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
There's a reason...

There's a very good reason that Microsoft's business practices are called "monopolistic"; they are as a matter of fact. That's a slam-dunk bona fide "finding of fact", according to Judge Jackson's ruling. Had Jackson not decided to let that reported be privy to the whole sordid mess (which then became a book), his next rulings would have been to break up Microsoft.

Kearns seems not to want to let the facts get in the way of his column.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

05/16, 11:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Replacement for GDI+

Where can I download the fully functional replacement to GDI+ please. I would love to have a compositing engine on windows at work. I get frustrated daily by the slowness of XP and the window "white outs" that occur when GDI is not able to repaint a window.

The guy is obviously a paid shill for MSFT.

cynikal
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Joined: Aug 2003

0

05/16, 11:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
market share

i'm so sick of hearing 90% market share.. but is that by choice or by force? the 5% or so apple has is because people wanted it.. too bad the same can't be said about the dark side..

spider610
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

05/17, 12:11am | report spam | close Reply |
well...

I can imagine/knowingly, Microsoft is going to copy Quartz, Core Image, Core Audio from Apple, and those're revolutionary features that's not available for Windows.

Wutzo
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Joined: Apr 2002

0

05/17, 05:15am | report spam | close Reply |
Watson

It is no problem that apple develops system extensions or application inspired by third party apps. How ever I think it is a shame what Apple did to Watson and Sherlock. Watson (third party Sherlock predcessor) was more or less killed by Sherlock. Sherlock was once announced as killer new feature. Now Apple is no longer improving sherlock. Localized versions of the channels are rare.

The same might happen to dashboard. Its just a fashion add on.

tomodachi
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Joined: Apr 2002

0

05/17, 05:26am | report spam | close Reply |
>>Watson

>>(third party Sherlock predcessor)

Uhh, I didn't know that. I thought the sotware was named Watson cuz there already was Sherlock on the Mac. Learn something new everyday, eh?

purpleshorts
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Joined: Sep 2004

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05/17, 07:08am | report spam | close Reply |
Ask Dan Wood.

Ask Dan Wood, who won Apple's Design award for Watson one year, and then saw his unique ideas (his hard work, and his means of supporting his wife and two kids) swallowed by Apple the next. Apple thinks "all's fair" and we think "great" and send them a hundred bucks for the "new" features. But I bet that for every feature, there is some guy out there like Dan who worked very hard to make an award winning product, who lacks the legal muscle of Apple, who may think different-ly.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

05/17, 12:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
QuickSilver vs Spotlight

You can argue that how QuickSilver and Spotlight are technically different just as how one can argue that Google Desktop Search is different than that of Microsoft's (based on Lookout), and Yahoo's (based on Copernic). Nevertheless, it would be semantics.

QS was there before Spotlight was even announced. QS did a good job. It will likely become irrelevant because Apple duplicated its function.

Chalk it to another function that Apple may or may not have copied from other but don't say that Apple did it first.

just a poster
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Joined: Jun 2004

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05/17, 02:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
How can anyone

compare the Windows distribution to a Mac distribution.

The wintel world is MS Office-centric, but everything about MacOS X is superior.

iTunes vs. WiMP iMovie vs. Windows Movie Maker iPhoto vs. ? Terminal vs. windows' command OS X unix commands vs. Windows crippleware commands GraphicConverter vs. Paint Chess vs. Solitaire

Microsoft is looking more and more like it is reinventing the wheel invented by *nix. It's trying a triangle shape, a square shape, an 8-sided shape... LOL That's why Apple was able to go from the Copland disaster to OS X today. Meanwhile, Microsoft is right in the middle of their Copland disaster with Longhorn.

But the main thing that makes OS X better than Windows? Developer tools.

ultmast
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Joined: Mar 2004

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05/17, 05:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: QuickSilver vs Spotli

--------------------- You can argue that how QuickSilver and Spotlight are technically different ... Nevertheless, it would be semantics. ---------------------

It's not semantics to talk about how they are technically different. The differences are the entire point.

--------------------- QS was there before Spotlight was even announced. QS did a good job. It will likely become irrelevant because Apple duplicated its function. ---------------------

Arguing about who was there first, now _that's_ semantics. Regardless, it won't become irrelevant because Apple "copied its function," but because it requires significant additions to approach the level of search capability provided by Spotlight, and because it is not a system wide enhancement.

It also is geared for a completely different function than Spotlight, and the people who make use of it will probably continue to do so, especially when QS makes use of Spotlight to enhance its own value.

Spotlight is a foundational technology that makes good use of other foundational technologies that are only present in Tiger, namely arbitrarily extensible file system metadata and Uniform Type Identifiers. QS had absolutely nothing on Spotlight in the search department, but will in the future, as it begins to support these features.

technohedz
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05/17, 05:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
lol, flunkies.

besides the article being, as usual, troll food. Let's look at some replies..or not..

Konfabulator...damn, that sucks, but wait, widgets didn't live on your desktop in Dashboard and Konfabulator didn't have a sheet window until Dashboard came out. While many people may just dismiss Dashboard as a done of Konfabulator (all the desk accessories etc were in previous vesions, but whatever) and not bother with K; Konfabulator has value in that the base model is widgets that live on the desktop. If it hadn't become a whimpering match I'd feel better about forking over money for K.

Watson...Sherlock then Watson, then Sherlock again. If you're going to build on someone elses foundation you can't expect them to not be building on their own foundation.

Let's call it what it is, appsquating. You think delicious library is going to stick around forever? ilife has been about media management since day one. Apple needs a consolidated media manager and given all the low level stuff they wrote, they would make a faster and better one than what exists because they can.

"QS was there before Spotlight was even announced. QS did a good job. It will likely become irrelevant because Apple duplicated its function.

Chalk it to another function that Apple may or may not have copied from other but don't say that Apple did it first."

Duplicating a function is different than providing a new foundation. Sure, we can paint a room in a house and charge you for it, but you can't easily move that room to a new foundation . Just because Apple didn't make everyone change filesystems, doesn't mean that HFS+ wasn't prepped for it. Spotlight is well thought out and unique. The design hasn't been done before. There may have been similar things, but what's going to break first? The search system built by the people who make the OS and FileSystem and have every reason to move the search data system into the FileSystem, or the search system that piggybacks on API's?

Apple has bought a lot of things, but it hasn't spent money on trivial things. It hasn't written someone out of business for a completely original idea. It may have in rare instances, and there if it was litigated Apple would lose.

I for one am happy to have a choice. The Third Party way or the Apple Way, but keep those google/ms_search rubbish arguments where they belong...in the rubbish bin.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

05/17, 06:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
BS

"Arguing about who was there first, now _that's_ semantics."

Hey, I think you have just reduced 50% of Macnn to semantics so fanboys are obsessed with everybody is copying Apple but never the other way around.

"I for one am happy to have a choice. The Third Party way or the Apple Way, but keep those google/ms_search rubbish arguments where they belong...in the rubbish bin."

No you are not. You are saying there is no other logical choice but Apple. There is no other music application to consider beside iTunes, so on and so forth. Hey, to each his own but don't pretend you are unbiased.

ultmast
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

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05/17, 06:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: BS

>Hey, I think you have just reduced 50% of Macnn to semantics so fanboys are obsessed with everybody is copying Apple but never the other way around.

Is your point that it's hypocritical to criticize others for copying Apple if Apple is copying others? If so, then I would tend to agree. In this case, however, and in reference to _the article_, the issue is how incorrect the accusation of copying is, so being a "fanboi" has nothing to do with it.

>>"I for one am happy to have a choice. The Third Party way or the Apple Way, but keep those google/ms_search rubbish arguments where they belong...in the rubbish bin."

>No you are not. You are saying there is no other logical choice but Apple. There is no other music application to consider beside iTunes, so on and so forth. Hey, to each his own but don't pretend you are unbiased.

I think he _is_ happy to have a choice, and he most definitely did _not_ suggest there was no choice but Apple. He specifically stated you could do 3rd party _or_ Apple. He merely suggested that arguments that Apple was "copying" anyone with Spotlight, or that Google or MS's stuff is anywhere near Spotlight, are bunk. I very much agree with that assertion, especially after reading Ars Technica's HIGHLY informative review of Tiger and its new foundations.

ultmast
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Joined: Mar 2004

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05/17, 06:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Spotlight

In short, Spotlight, and other related advancements in Tiger, are _well_ beyond the capabilities provided by Google's desktop search, or any other similar Windows product.

And if you research the "unadvertised" improvements to Tiger, you'll see that Spotlight, UTIs, and arbitrarily extensible metadata have _enormous_ potential and room to grow.

klinux
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

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05/17, 09:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmm

Are you one of those people who like to use "quotes" for things you want to "emphasize" but don't like to admit it so you use _this_?

In any case, have you extensively used the Desktop Search as offered by Google, Microsoft, and Yahoo as well as Apple? I have. In fact, I will also disclose that I work for one of the above companies. To say that Spotlight has enormous potential and room to grow seems to imply that others do not have enormous potential or room to grow.

ultmast
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

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05/18, 12:24am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Hmm

Quotes are an improper way to emphasize, which is all I'm after. I don't see how what kind of person I am or what my writing style is has any bearing on the discussion, however. But you bringing it up is worth noting... you weaken your position trying to personalize this unnecessarily.

Interesting that you suggest that my comment has implications, when I quite clearly categorized it independently, yet in the same paragraph you transparently imply that I haven't used those search tools. On the same note, the fact that Spotlight has potential does not imply that the other tools _do_.

Lastly, since you brought it up, I do believe that Spotlight has far more potential than any of those tools, for reasons I have stipulated in previous postings.

1) It's _foundational_, something Google and Yahoo are more than likely never going to be able to claim.

2) It incorporates elements not yet available on Windows, and whose likelihood of appearance are in question (UTIs, arbitrarily extensible metadata).

3) It appears much easier to develop supporting plugins/etc for.

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Columnist downplays Tiger features, "innovation"

updated 07:30 pm EDT, Mon May 16, 2005

Innovation questioned

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