In response to the 'Will there be an iPod software update for 3G iPods?' question, it certainly doesn't look like it will be imminent, if there is one at all...

Checking on Apple's iPod download site http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/ reveals that there are now multiple versions of iPod software available, and that the version for the 3G iPods does not include the new features.

Bummer!

This update is on the spot!
Apparently it IS all about the music. No color display, bells or whistles.

Instead it is cheaper, thinner, and has longer battery life and new software. Great!

Apple has again managed to update without making owners of the previous model yellow of envy while leaping miles ahead of the competitors.

Now we can only speculate about the specs of the "missing" $499 model... 60 GB hard drive? Built-in recording? A dock that syncs via Airport Express (which I would hope for)?

>In response to the 'Will there be an iPod software update for 3G iPods?' question, it certainly doesn't look like it will be imminent, if there is one at all...

If this is the case, I suggest that everyone with a 3G iPod send feedback to Apple telling them that they have left behind a generation of iPod users that made it what it is today.
Not giving the few additional featured such as audible speed control and shuffle to the 3G users is just poor!! If they need these software updates to differentiate the 3G from the 4G ipod, then they are saying that the benefits of the hardware update is only marginal.

I keep forgetting that Apple is a hardware company out to sell hardware and not in the business of keeping old customers products running like new. Guess it just goes to show that Apple doesn't care to keep the older generations going unless they upgrade to new product which means that the itunes music store isn't all that profitable.

I'm sick of all these frickin' whiners. People are never happy with what they got, especially if suddenly something better comes out.

The G4's JUST came out and G3 owners are already whining about getting left behind.

As Bruce Willis said in 'The Kid', "Somebody call the Waaaaambulance!"

This is no different from when McDonald's introduced the double cheeseburger. I asked them for a free meat patty and slice of cheese; after all, I was a loyal customer who had made the cheeseburger what it is today. b******* refused just like Apple.

LOL, that was really funny :)

Anyway, I think the new pod looks great, love the simple design and ... the affordability, ordered mine. :-)

"If this is the case, I suggest that everyone with a 3G iPod send feedback to Apple telling them that they have left behind a generation of iPod users that made it what it is today.
Not giving the few additional featured such as audible speed control and shuffle to the 3G users is just poor!!"

What a whiner. Shuffle playback is something I have never understood - I don't ever have an urge to listen to music randonly. Also, the variable playback speed for audiobooks and is another thing that I won't use but even if I wanted both those features the fact is that each new generation has SOMETHING that the previous generation lacked.

Besides, there have been three generations of iPod owners who have "Made the iPod what it is today", not just the 3G owners.

there really isn't a price drop; they just moved to the next gen. Reason? I'm betting they'll slipstream a 60G model Sept/Oct at 500 bucks. And that's a more sensible spread then before... where you went up 100 bucks for an additional 5G.

As for the case, this was generally restricted to the top model... which the 40G one is not.

In addition, now the price differential of 50 bucks from a 4G to a 20G model is an even bigger gap than before. So I'm looking for a price drop on the mini to 200 bucks. That will give them a great line-up, 2,3,4,5 hundreds bucks with a good feature spread between them.

As for color, I sure hop they don't go down that road (at least for a long whiole). It's totall unnecessary and has got to add at least a hundred bucks to the price.

Keep it simple, keep it clear.

All the other firmware upgrades are OK, and the click-wheel is probably good too (I prefer my 3G controls to the click-wheel though). But the longer battery life from the same battery is the big winner. I wonder if the improvements were hardware based, or firmware based. If it is firmware, then MAYBE Apple would release a 3G upgrade to try to improve battery life on 3Gs. This would reduce their warranty claims, so probably would make good financial sense, as well as make me happy.

But I suspect it was hardware that lead to the improvements in battery life, so I'll shut up now.

>What a whiner. Shuffle playback is something I have never understood

Just because you don't understand a features usefulness doesn't make it a useless feature. The "whining" is not only about this feature, but if you consider the fact that the 12hour batter life is being attributed to better software power management, then it is possible that the 3G owners could benefit here too.

I'm not saying give me a free G4 iPod, but tell me this, if apple releases a new model of computer along with a software upgrade and the features in that software upgrade couldn't be used on previous model computers, wouldn't you be pissed too? And I am not talking about a leap from 68k technology to PPC, but if the computer just had some cosmetic refurbishing and a faster processor.
Lets say for example when Tiger gets released the New G5 models running at 3Ghz come out and they tell everyone that Tiger will only run on the 3Ghz machine? You would hear a lot of "Whining" because there is no good reason for this.

>As for color, I sure hop they don't go down that road (at least for a long whiole). It's totall unnecessary and has got to add at least a hundred bucks to the price.

I'm placing bets that we see a top end iPod which does photo and video playback on a color screen with a 60GB HD. I think Apple knows as well as most of us do that carrying around 60GB worth of music and paying $499 for this right doesn't server a huge market. The majority of the market will be well served with 40GB of music in portability.
If Apple moves to a topend iPod in a form factor that is thin and sleek like the current design, but incorporating a color screen of say 4" diagonal allowing video playback and iPhoto syncability then you have the perfect mix of music and photo in one unit. I'd put the price at $549.

I'd like to know where you got this "fact" that the battery life is better software. From the sound of it, there's a completely new hardware scheme in there, or they WOULD give us the software updates. The hardware in the iPod was barely powerful enough to do what it could, and I can guarantee you that the audio book bit takes a (relatively) lot of processor power, so the fact is, there's probably a new audio processor in the 4G iPod which does stuff that the 3G cannot, and that's why the software is not released for the 3G iPod.

I'll concede to this. I thought I had read that in the Newsweek article, but apparently I was mistaken. That additional power management may be hardware related.

You're probably right, raejae. Apple should clarify this so as to silence the whiners.

How many 3G owners out there are going to go out and pick up a 4G immediately or within the next month?

Does the new 4G 40GB come with a remote or not. This must be confirmed. I don't know what this "case" is everyone is talking about, but my 40GB 3G came with a belt-clip holder and a bag with a closer-loop that I use all the time. Is this the case?

The new menu item for "shuffle songs" and the audible feedback for whether or not a button press or wheel movement were registered certainly can be added in software, and I've sent feedback asking them to be, and it certainly is needed. There have been many times when I can't tell if a command was registered or not, and there's just no reason why such a minor improvement can't be added via firmware like the Backlight command was previously. I was very disappointed when the firmware updater did absolutely nothing and read "Up to date" the moment the iPod was plugged in. A whine? No, just asking for a very logical update that certainly is not hardware-related.

Apple could have added games to the 1G and 2G ipods, just like they could add shuffle control to the top level of the menu. It's not that hard I'm sure. It's obvious that they are not adding features to prior generations of iPods as a device to sell more hardware. That's the Apple way... but, to pacify the "whiners", Apple could easily add some of the features that aren't hardware dependent to keep people enchanted with their products. Apple should keep in mind that iPod users aren't necessarily the Apple zealots that have kept the company afloat through the last 10 years. These are PC users that are used to their hardware being able to support new features for "generations" to come...
If you believe that digital music players should be judged like OS Platforms as Jobs has stated in keynote speeches, the prices still have to come down if Apple is going to maintain the market lead. The problem is that the iPod mini demand is higher than the supply of the mini hds despite the overly expensive price of 250.00. The mini should be priced at 179 (and probably will - once the supply catches up). If the price was lower, Apple could sell a low end ipod for 199 and really saturate the market. Imagine even an 8 gig iPod mini for 199 and 10 gig full size for 179. That 10 gig iPod would be "The iPod for the rest of us". The mini's don't necessarily need to be less expensive than the low-end iPod, but Apple will probably continue the route they've taken because they enjoy being a niche market. Of course this is coming from a guy who thinks Apple should have licensed their OS in the early 90's...

Any word on whether the buttons (menu, , >") light up?

Come on!!! Does anyone *really* want to watch video on their iPod? The beauty / success of this device is similar to the early success of the Palm Pilot. It does a small # of things - VERY WELL. Throw in video playback, a cell phone, a toothbrush, a telescoping fishing pole and what do you have??? A clunky, expensive failure.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/

Of course this is coming from a guy who thinks Apple should have licensed their OS in the early 90's...

Yeah, if only Apple had done that. Then there wouldn't be an iPod today for people to be arguing about.   ; )

"Come on!!! Does anyone *really* want to watch video on their iPod? "

no, but i would like to store an imovie and a few iphoto albums on the ipod - and be able to play them back on a tv.

"awesome
soooo. now I have no reason to break my ipod and take it..."

just curious... do you even have the faintest idea of how dumb you sound? do you even know the repurcussions when you begin cheating warranties?

I'm no expert, but I was just having dinner with a friend last night who rubs elbows with all the top designers at Apple. He mentioned that even though features like games, etc. are techincally 'software,' they are tied into hardware components as well ... the hardware packed into those little white boxes is very specific. That's why the 3G games were never ported back to the earlier models, and that's why it's likely some of the new 'software' features in the 4G won't be able to port back, either.

That said, it seems like at LEAST the reshuffling of the menus to be more useful and intuitive would be doable ... we'll see I guess.

I don't personally care about movie functionality, but it would be nice to browse my iPhoto library. It would allow me to show friends recent or old pictures without having to lug around my Powerbook. Granted, it's a smaller screen, but with a zoom function, it would be adequate.

Also: Do the menu, >,

It would be unwise to lower the price on a product that is out of stock everywhere. It's marketing, not common sense or logic. So what if you can spend $50 more and get 16 GB more? If people are willing to pay more for the iPod mini, the price will stick. The 20 GB for $299 will do a good job at balancing supply and demand for the iPod mini.

No change necessary.

There is already a product that can do iMovie: PowerBook or iBook. Why would anyone want to view it on a device that has a screen smaller than the dimension of a miniDV tape?

The vast majority of people like to watch movie on a big screen. You can easily hook up iBook via RCA or PB via DVI or S-Video to big screen TV.

But then who would be desperate enough to want to watch stuff on the road? Apple's existing portable lines alread address that need.

I think it's a given that the iPod mini will drop to $199 soon, but not because of the "gap" between 4G (the iPod Mini for $249) and 20G (the bottom-line iPod for $299). That's a technical gap which isn't of the slightest concern to Mini buyers.

Mac people don't generally "get this," but Apple's research shows that MOST people who buy the iPod don't *have* more than 4G of music on the thing -- they don't *own* more than 1,000 songs. So the Mini is perfect for most people who primarily use the device as a music player.

For those of us who use the iPod for data storage/photo storage/recording/backup bootable drive as well, of course the iPod Mini isn't right for our needs. See? Two entirely different markets, both well-served.

As for why they didn't announce the iPod Mini price drop today, well that's obvious too: it's selling out at the current price. They won't drop the price until the demand subsides/the start of the xmas shopping season, whichever comes first.

>But then who would be desperate enough to want to watch stuff on the road? Apple's existing portable lines alread address that need.

I have an iBook and I can tell you it's not nearly as nice to show people photos on the iBook as it would be able to hand them a small digital wallet that is the size of an actualy photo print and have them flip through the images. Although the ability to listen to music while showing a slide show and having cool transitions always invokes a few Ooohs and Aaahs from the viewers.

small device = convenience
nice? Who wants to look at small photos? I suppose you meant _convenient_ rather than _nice_.

I am sure none of your audience would say the smaller viewer is _nicer_ or can display _nicer_ pictures than a portable with 12.1", 14.1", 15.2", or even 17" screen.

didn't jobs come out and say no one wants a video ipod? the paradigms aren't the same. you can listen to music in the background, you can't watch a movie in the background. it requires your attention.

Has anyone heard anything about when they would be available at retail stores yet? I have a $300 gift card for Best Buy. Before anyone says anything about buying Mac stuff at Best Buy, keep in mind the $300 gift card as well as the fact that they offer an extended warranty that I've never had problems with on both a TV, cellphone, and DVD player.

Does Apple offer extended warranties from the Apple Store?

Forget about Best Buy. Before you even think about it, you need to know that Best Buy has silently terminated the pilot program with Apple and Apple products will seize to exist at Best Buy. Office Depot is the location now, even XServe G5. Go to and you will see that the "discontinued" iMacs.

The "extended warranty" from Apple Store is called AppleCare. If you buy with a gold or platinum card, you often have one year of extended warranty. Check with your card issuer.

but still images loaded from your iPhoto collection onto your iPod? Absolutely. Why lug around a laptop or buy expensive CF cards when you can upload them to your 60GB iPod. I think this is a no brainer and likely to be the next step in iPod evolution. Look for iPhoto for Windows to appear soon...

Best Buy and Apple "mutually agreed" to terminate the pilot program to offer computers at their stores, but Best Buy will continue to sell iPods, according to everything I've read.

I'm glad Best Buy will continue to carry the iPod at least. I remember going in when they sold the G5's and iMac and they were way in the back of the store in a corner. They even had huge music stations and home movie stations but of course no Macs. I don't know why Apple doesn't see to it that their staff is better trained and has a bigger presence in the stores. Of course, they're sales are going to be miserable at Best Buy.

Well, I'm glad about the iPod nonetheless. I have that gift card and will get the extended warranty. The Applecare warrantly doens't really compare with Best Buy's though. Best Buy's is 39.99 for 4 years. Given that the batteries are irreplacable, I'd say that's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

Of course, I don't get an education discount at Best Buy like at the Apple store either.

for the next version to have a color screen, bluetooth and video out.

I'm happy with the current iPod and yes it doesn't make sense to watch your movies or look at Photos on such a small screen but a video out would be cool. It's about options.

The only ACTUAL new features that I have noticed are the longer battery life, multiple on-the-go playlist support, and the Audiobooks adjustable speed. Longer battery life is likely hardware-related, so I wont touch on that. The multiple on-the-go lists is already "semi" supported, as each time you plug the ipod into your computer, the on-the-go list is saved in itunes as "On-The-Go x" where x is 1, 2, 3, etc. The audiobooks adjustable speed would use more processing power, so I suppose it is possible that this also cannot be used on 3G ipods, at least without significantly decreasing battery life. As far as "shuffle songs" goes? OK, it's nice that it's front and center, but what is everyone complaing about?!? I've owned a 1G and currently own a 3G ipod, and guess what? They BOTH SUPPORT SHUFFLING... It's right there in your settings menu, under something like "Random Play", so what is anybody worried about? I have listened to my entire ipod library on suffle for a couple of years now, best way to do it in the car IMHO.

"for the next version to have a color screen, bluetooth and video out."
And a battery life of about an hour and a half..

This just won't work. Bluetooth (or indeed any sort of transmission) stresses the battery - this is why cellphone 'talktime' is about a fifth of the standby time. Colour screens stress the battery, which is why you could power a Palm II from a couple of AA's for about a month but a IIIC (and every palm since with a colour screen) needs charging every night . Having to spool video by driving the HD and therefore not being able to make best use of the cache memory stresses the battery, as anyone who has a laptop knows - you use the hard drive only when you have to. People have only just stopped moaning that the battery life was too short with a mono screen and only 'blipping' the drive each time a tune was loaded into the cache. What do you think all these addons are going to do to that? Do you want to be able to listen to at least a whole CD's worth of tunes before the battery gives out?

But no, that's a really great idea. Keep it up.

As to the 'iFrame' idea. well there's a certain merit to that but I still think it's a fairly low milage reason to put a colour screen in an iPod with all the attendant cost and battery life complications involved. I mean, how often are people actually going to use that functionality? Once a week, once a month, once a year after coming back from vacation?

The iPod is a music player for god's sake, why bother to attempt to crowbar in things that don't really need to be there. Do you want to be able to send emails from your fridge? Do you want your car to mow your lawn? Why do people insist that there's milage in putting functionality in a device which will inevitably compromise it's core purpose for very marginal gain.

This is a total rip off... This isn't a price drop at all. You could buy the 3G iPod 20GB at Amazon right now for 299 which comes with the case ($39) and the Remote ($39 w/headphones), or the new one for the same price that includes the USB 2.0 cable ($19). They dropped accessories and called it a price drop. Go quickly to your retail stores and buy the price protected 20GB iPod before they sell out. I own a 15GB with all the fixins... (original 3G $400 version) and I'm thinking about picking one up while I can for that price...

WELLITY?

Apple says they are not planning to do a 60GB iPod in the foreseeable future.

I was going to buy one only to find out that it's not really a price drop at all. Does Apple think we wouldn't notice?

I am disappointed that Apple is claiming that the 4G iPods are at a reduced price. The new iPods should be shipping with the accessories of the 3G iPods to qualify for the reduced price. Don't lie about it. Either keep the accessories and the old prices or reduce the price. This type of marketing gets very old and does nothing but harm Apple in the long run. Its kind of like health insurance premiums - Good news! Your premiums haven't been raised. Bad news! - Your benefits have been reduced.

Maybe I'm missing it somewhere (press release, perhaps, but I can't find it on the iPod web site), but where is apple claiming that these are cheaper? All I see is apple says they're getting better.

Oh, and here's a thought to some of you boneheads whining that there's not enough features to upgrade. Don't. Geesh. Its people like you that caused apple to dump the MacWorld shows. All the expectations that each new update must include so many new features it makes you want to upgrade. Some would think that the 12 hour battery life is worth the upgrade. I can't imagine it, but I'm guessing there's some idiots out there who'll upgrade just to get the shuffle feature on the main menu, or the sounds when you scroll the wheel (and I thought it had that).

Oh, the iPod is a consumer device. I don't hear people complaining because their DVD player didn't get some new features of the latest DVD players. But this is apple, so everyone expects that since they were nice enough to buy something from them, they deserve updates for the rest of their lives.

As for the comment from scottgriz regarding hypothetical updates to tiger only for 3GHz machines, you write this with the assumption it would have no good reason; But what if it did? What if it was compiled to use instructions only on the 3GHz, then there would be a reason. But, then again, the Apple whiners are known to whine when apple puts out an update to an OS to add support for a machine that won't run on another machine (like 10.2.7 for the new G5s).

Basically, what it comes down to, is that, on a percentage basis, Apple customers have more "whiners" per installed base than any OS or hardware manufacturer.

how about a 60 GB vPod with lightweight plugin video goggles that project/simulate a 55 inch screen viewed at 5-8 feet - a pretty widescreen experience. Attached video out for S-video

i have a very good feeling about what's coming

dd

it's there, Louzer should try reading press releases, websites, the newsweek article, again.

Not complaining about the 4G iPod mind you, it has plenty of features and I'd like to see some things in the 5G version. But if Apple's going to claim that the 40GB version now only costs $399, well that's just misleading since they took away some options.

Like Watkins said: Its kind of like health insurance premiums - Good news! Your premiums haven't been raised. Bad news! - Your benefits have been reduced.

I don't use the case or remote that came w/ my 2G iPod. Do you?

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