Chance of Tiger having upgrade pricing to reward loyal mac customers: zero.

MS had really better be worried. Apple is kicking serious bootie every new OS release.

Now for my opinion (not that anyone asked for it). As far as upgrading, use your heads. Does Panther have NEEDED features that you absolutely can't live without? I'm still running Jaguar at home because everything that I need to get done, gets done quite well with Jaguar. I also don't like to interrupt my workflow/learned GUI everytime Apple sends another OS X iterration down the pipeline. If you have mad cash lying around and just want to help Apple stay in business, buy everything they are offering. :)

On the other hand, Panther really is sweet after you update it to 10.3.3. (It's on my laptop)

I may upgrade to Tiger if it has significant enhancements. I'll just wait and see if I NEED it.

Current, you will upgraded. That does not neccesary mean you will have to stay current. Alot of people are quite happy with their 10.1 and 10.2 versions of MacOS X as a lot of the Dark Side Users are happy with their Win 98 and 2000 versions. If it fulfilles your current needs why upgrade. Most people can wait with the upgrade until a bread and butter programe requieres them to upgrade. We will have to remember that a os upgrade might force us to upgrade some of our applications as well. It is thus always a good idear to check it ones applications are compatible with the new OS (That beeing Windows or Mac)

I've been a "fool" and upgraded from 10.1 to 10.2 to 10.3, and, I must say, I've not ONCE regretted it. If you can get edu pricing, it's only $70, and, in my eyes, it was worth every penny. Panther is awesome. The usability is much better, it multitasks better...I'm just very thoroughly impressed by Panther. I, for one, am excited about Tiger.

Did you know Apple offers an OS Subscription service for one low price, you are covered for the next free years recieving OS upgrades for no additional charge.

...version of OS-X that I have any coinfidence in & that I am actually starting to think of as an 'upgrade' from trusty OS-9 which actually had drivers & worked very well - sure there has been much promise & many new features from day 1 but many basics (such as file labels) didn't appear until recently - three years of compromise, struggle & debugging - it truly felt some days like Apple should have been paying me... I seem to remember 1.5 - 2 yr cycles Apple originally forecast... And support for previous versions - most of the iApps only work in the 'latest subscription'...? Incentive? Maybe... At least we do have a choice...

...and lest we forget the .mac email address bait & switch - and you wonder why new sales have dropped to 2 % ???

Between flawed delivery of of OS upgrade promises, proprietary hardware (ADC) & .mac ransoms I am very leary of trusting Apple very far...

To be honest my XP machine just keeps going, & going, and going & by the time I'm ready to upgrade the hardware longhorn will likely be included as OEM... It has truly been a bargain... Quite a switch from the old 'MS is evil' days...

You are so boring. What's with all this calculated weighing of different features based on need alone? Where are the emotions, where is the desire, nay lust, the fever, nay frenzy, generated by months filled with rumors of possible features for Tiger ?

How can someone not upgrade after all that?

"no one is forcing them to upgrade."

No, of course not. But look how many software programs are now not supporting Jaguar. Apple made so many changes going from Jaguar to Panther that people stopped supporting Jaguar. Now don't get me wrong, I think apple is making amazing progress. But it's not like people can just simply IGNORE the latest OS X update- especially when they find out they suddenly can't get any updates to their software because the updates only run on latest version.

"Be happy with what you're using right now" you say? That's unrealistic. People know that the computer industry changes so fast, that if they don't stay current they won't be competitive. They might not necessarily need the latest OS, but they definately want to be able to run the latest versions of their current software. If they have to upgrade the OS to be able to do that, then yes, it IS a tax.

""Be happy with what you're using right now" you say? That's unrealistic. People know that the computer industry changes so fast, that if they don't stay current they won't be competitive. They might not necessarily need the latest OS, but they definately want to be able to run the latest versions of their current software. If they have to upgrade the OS to be able to do that, then yes, it IS a tax."

That's why most corporations are still on Win2k and many home users are on 9x. Why many corporations are still on Office 2k and Office XP and 03 have not been great upgrade versions. Why home users may still be at Office 98.

Software companies are facing a tough sell with each upgrade. That's a fact. People are looking for compelling reasons to upgrade and not finding any.

So, yes, you can be "happy with what you have now".

...then it DESERVES an upgrade. I will say that I consider 10.3 the first "truly 24/7 usable" version of X in terms of speed, responsiveness, and such. On the lighter side, Apple doesn't have any real DRM on upgrades...so if you lean that way, you can lower the price by having friends who want to upgrade as well...not that *I* would ever do such a horrible thing.

I do think if they come out with a new system each year they should lower the price below $100!

well, i am one of the biggest apple fanboys around, but still, i kinda wish they'd let panther settle into the developer circles for a while so bugs with 3rd party apps could get worked out. panther's rock solid... until you start installing other people's stuff into it. of course, i'm not a developer, so maybe this isn't that big of a deal, but sometimes development, i would imagine, can be TOO fast.

It ran great on my old Pismo Powerbook. I work for an ad agency and it's given users much needed stability over OS9 and increased interest in computers in general. Most people never bother to learn how anything works, yet my Mac users are a happy lot and take the time to figure out how the OS and it's features work. I can't imagine what Tiger could improve upon, other than G5 optimization and interface tweaks. I would be happy if it'd only remember what size I want my damn finder windows and lock down the items on my desktop, so they aren't moving every restart. Maybe more '.Mac' goodies to justify the price -- like Home folders on iPod.

Upgrading the OS is one thing.

Having security patches for older OS's and updated web browser (Safari) that's supported on older OS's is another thing.

Apple put a lot of development into Safari, and maybe they should of put it into Mozilla as that's what I'm now running as my main browser because Safari will not be updated on this OS to keep up with new CSS guidelines, etc., etc., etc.

Damn you people are ridiculous!!! A bunch of babies whining about $129, this and that! Give me a f#$**in break you big babies. Be glad that Apple is working REAL hard and producing the best stuff available. Jeez the same s*** from you all every year! Get the upgrade or don't simple as that.

Anyone want to place bets on how Steve will pronounce "Tiger"? (Remember Jaguar was "Jagwire".) My votes are for "Tigwire" and "Toiger".

I think I'm tired of hearing about how great OSX is. My machine runs great, but is getting old. I think I'm gonna hold out until I buy my next G5 (sometime in 2005/06)

Trevc brought up a subtle little thing going on here. We all bash microsoft for tying their apps into the OS. But every time an OS X update come out, the latest versions of apple's apps are included, and typically those programs don't run on the previous OS. What's up with that? Obviously they are tying their programs into the OS, otherwise you would be able to rip Safari off the latest OS and have it run on an older OS with no problems. But you can't do that. Apple doesn't want you to do that, because what they consider an OS upgrade IS an upgrade of all their apple programs. Panther had what, like 3 overall UI improvments? Finder leftbar, Expose, Secure trash delete... what else? Not a whole lot. Everything else was either new apps or updates to existing apps. Obviously those app updates will not be propegated to older OS X versions, because then why would you upgrade?

For what Apple pours into an OS release, paying $129 is cheap. That's a lot less than I spend on CDs every month.

My machine runs fast and reliably under Panther and much better than it did under Jaguar. So how is that not worth $129?

How much money do you people dump into your automobiles and SUVs? Me? I ride bicycles, so maybe that's why I've got all this excess cash lying around, funnelling it directly to Apple.

Sheesh.

Obviously you don't know what "tying in" an app (like Explorer) into an OS means.

I'm holding out for Cheetah.

> If they're happy with the features they have, then
> they're free to stick with them.

Problem is, new software keeps coming out that requires the features of the new OS.

Steve, get your hands off my wallet. You are already a billionaire. We've already got the expensive Mac hardware, why not be gracious and give us a free OS upgrade?

And I bet this "Tiger" will still not be pure 64-bit to take advantage of the G5

man, a bunch of whiners out today...

I won't be an fan boy about this, but if you don't like the fact that Apple continues to offer new features and innovations to its operating system, go buy something else. After all, 97% of the computer buying public feels perfect content to use a system that won't be updated until 2006 at the earliest. Shame on Apple for making products and charging for it!?!? How dare one of the few profitable computer companies actually do this.

Pony up people. You want the coolest thing, the hottest innovation around - you have to pay for it. Nothings free.

And I suppose that brand new Photoshop upgrade which requires Panther (or whatever) doesn't cost anything either, right?

i would like to see Housecat.

Why do people say this, when they know it's not a viable option? OS X is tied to the mac hardware, so people can't just "buy something else", not unless they want to flush all the money they've invested in the mac down the toilet. Obviously nobody is going to do that, otherwise they would have done it a long time ago.

"Shame on Apple for making products and charging for it."

That is NOT the issue, and it never has been. Yes, there are a few a******* in the mac community that want everything for free. But the real reason this issue blew up last year was because apple refused to offer upgrade pricing for people who paid their $129 for Jaguar. All apple had to do was offer upgrade pricing, and I bet you 99% of the compaints would have gone away. But people felt screwed by apple, after they supported Jaguar with their $129, and now apple wanted them to pay up all over again.

All people want from apple is a feeling that apple is listening to them, and that they care about them and aren't trying to s**** them over. That's it. It's really not all that more complicated then that. Just please your customers by catering to their expectations. The small finantial detriment to apple for having offered upgrade pricing is offset a hundredfold by renewed customer loyalty. Customer loyalty creates repeat business, which leads to further profit. Simple. Yet apple seems to think that they can't afford to lose a few bucks upfront. What they're really doing is sending a message to their customers: "F--k you. We don't care that you supported us. Pony up money." And then they expect people aren't going to react negatively to that?

"I'm holding out for Cheetah."

OS X 10.0 was known internally as "Cheetah"
10.1 was "Puma"

"...and lest we forget the .mac email address bait & switch - and you wonder why new sales have dropped to 2 % ???"

.Mac was not bait and switch. Let it go. They started charging for it. They never promised it would be free forever. Feel free to prove me wrong, or just let it go.

Bait and switch is when you advertise a product you don't have in order to get people into your store so you can sell them a more expensive product. When Apple advertised free iTools, they provided free iTools. When Apple changed it to .Mac, they no longer advertised free iTools. NOT bait and switch.

"No, of course not. But look how many software programs are now not supporting Jaguar. Apple made so many changes going from Jaguar to Panther that people stopped supporting Jaguar."

Only the iLife apps that I know of. The versions released during Jag still work. The latest Photoshop, MS OFfice, etc. all work in Jaguar. Where did you get the idea that most apps don't work in Jaguar? Or are you just a troll?

$129/year = $10.75/month

Y'all need to Get a Life™

"Problem is, new software keeps coming out that requires the features of the new OS."

Such as? Adobe, Microsoft, Macromedia, etc. apps all work in 10.2.

"Steve, get your hands off my wallet. You are already a billionaire. We've already got the expensive Mac hardware, why not be gracious and give us a free OS upgrade?"

Because software costs money to develop. Apple makes a hundred bucks profit on a Mac you bought, and you think that entitles teams of software developers to work for you for free for life? Do you work for free at your job?

"And I bet this "Tiger" will still not be pure 64-bit to take advantage of the G5"

What do you mean by "take advantage"? The current OS already takes advantage of the portions of the G5 that make the computer speedy. Making it 64-bit will only allow the OS to address more RAM - it won't make it any faster.

"All people want from apple is a feeling that apple is listening to them, and that they care about them and aren't trying to s**** them over."

The point is you're going to buy it anyways. If I'm Apple, why am I going to 'reward' the so called 'mac loyalist'? They bought the product so many times, you know they're not going to buy a windows machine. What incentive do I have as a company to reward my base customers when I know they're not going anywhere and I know no matter how much they b****, they'll still buy it??? That's the hypocracy of the 'mac community' (which I'm apart of) - lots of talk, but they'll still buy what Apple's selling.

I can understand people act negatively to the idea that their being 'exploited' because their loyal customers. That's reality folks.

As far as Apple listening, who should they listen to? That's the problem. Buying a product, being a loyal customer doesn't entitle anyone to anything. Most 'mac users' wouldn't have migrated to OS X if they had a choice. However, most of those users now say they're happier with OS X then they ever were with OS 9. What if Apple didn't insist on pushing their software to work the latest and best hardware? You end up like Microsoft, stuck with too many users still using Windows 98. MS is so focused on backward combatability, they're limited with what they can do on current systems. Apple doesn't have this problem. They've been up front since the beginning, telling people "get on board, or get left behind." That's leadership and that's what we've come to expect from Apple - innovation.

A full retail version of Windows XP costs $299. Even the "Upgrade" to XP Pro is $199. Yeah, it's true, it won't be updated for 2+ more years....er....I mean with a new version that you pay for, it'll be updated approximately 75 times in the interim with "Critical Updates" to address the latest crushingly devastating worm, but I digress.

The point is, $129 for a major OS revision isn't the bad part. It's pretty much that Apple does a major revision every year! How AWFUL of them!! If 10.2 and 10.3 were 2.5 years apart, there wouldn't be as much complaining.

The problem is that despite the fact that Jaguar (and for that matter 10.1) were kick a** operating systems doesn't change the fact that the next version was much better and made owners of the previous ones feel left out, and so soon after they upgraded to what was so recently a "kick a** operating system." So they whine, because they want the coolest new thing, and had it a few months before. Windows get to have what to them is the coolest (scary thought) for several years before THEY have to fork over a couple hundred for the next great thing.

Then they usually will simply buy a new machine, so they won't actually SEE that they're paying to get the latest OS. Mac users tend to keep their computers longer, and have a shorter period between updates, so they get annoyed, and forget that their annual OS upgrades of $129 aren't that much different from $300 once every couple years.

My suggestion? Offer the upgrade price of $129 for everyone who has any version of OS X. $300 for those that don't. Do the same every year. :-)

A full retail version of Windows XP costs $299. Even the "Upgrade" to XP Pro is $199. Yeah, it's true, it won't be updated for 2+ more years....er....I mean with a new version that you pay for, it'll be updated approximately 75 times in the interim with "Critical Updates" to address the latest crushingly devastating worm, but I digress.

The point is, $129 for a major OS revision isn't the bad part. It's pretty much that Apple does a major revision every year! How AWFUL of them!! If 10.2 and 10.3 were 2.5 years apart, there wouldn't be as much complaining.

The problem is that despite the fact that Jaguar (and for that matter 10.1) were kick a** operating systems doesn't change the fact that the next version was much better and made owners of the previous ones feel left out, and so soon after they upgraded to what was so recently a "kick a** operating system." So they whine, because they want the coolest new thing, and had it a few months before. Windows get to have what to them is the coolest (scary thought) for several years before THEY have to fork over a couple hundred for the next great thing.

Then they usually will simply buy a new machine, so they won't actually SEE that they're paying to get the latest OS. Mac users tend to keep their computers longer, and have a shorter period between updates, so they get annoyed, and forget that their annual OS upgrades of $129 aren't that much different from $300 once every couple years.

My suggestion? Offer the upgrade price of $129 for everyone who has any version of OS X. $300 for those that don't. Do the same every year. :-)

You have to understand that the $129 *is* the upgrade price. Every Mac owner already has a version of MacOS. There is no full retail price. Who would buy it?

LIONess... :D

Which programs do not support Jaguar I might ask?

MS Troll (TM), TrollShop, iTroll and UnTroll Tournament, apparently.

I can't believe that
1) people are already complaining. The OS hasn't even been shown publically yet.
2) people still think that they have to buy OS updates every time they come out? Were you forced to buy Photoshop CS when you already had Photoshop 7? Did Photoshop 7 cease to function? Does it still have the features you paid for? Was there a promise to add new features for free?
3) people still compare the "free updates" for Windows XP with charging for a new version of OS X. How many new features did the last WinXP "update" introduce? Was there a completely new Windows Explorer? Were there improvements to the file system (a la journaling)? Were there new window management functions (a la Exposé)? No.

Heck, this OS probably wont be out for another 6 months (at least). Sorry, but the complaints start rolling in earlier and earlier each time. Apple's been charging for whole-version updates since MacOS 8, and people still complain. If you don't want it, don't buy it.

If they keep advancing OS X at this rate.... By the time Longhorn comes out Macs will be flying and driving and cooking my breakfast!

I loved 10.2 and 10.3, and if those kinds of advances keep coming, I'll be happy to pay for them.

The Tiger is my favorite big cat. Strongest of cats. However, Cheetah is the fastest of cats and that would be a nice quality to have.

You PC Trolls, to bad you have to wait for 2006 (oops, looks like it might be 2007) for your new OS.

I would love to see even better Linux integration!

For most games, we Mac users have to wait for second runs pretty much. So that's how I treat the OS X "upgrades" - I'll upgrade to 10.3 when 10.4 comes out and 10.3 is then cheaper anyway.

I was an early adopter of OS X (OS X beta on the first day it was available) because I was so excited about it. When Jaguar came out it sounded nice...snappier interface and the like but I didn't have a compelling need to buy it. I was happy going along with OS 10.1.5 until panther came out. I had just gotten a firewire DV camera and wanted the ability to burn DVD's. Toast 6 came with my DVD burner but I believe Jaguar was required to use Toast 6. So...I had to upgrade to panther. My wife wanted iCal anyway so it was an upgrade that filled pent up demand for new features.

The moral of the story is that I won't have a huge pent up demand for tiger. My machines are so old that I've decided not to upgrade them anymore anyway but if I were going to I think I'd wait 2 years.

The next logical thing for me to do is buy a new machine with the new OS that will come with it. I may wait 2 years to do that because I don't want to pay $129 6 months after I buy my new machine to upgrade the OS (not even $20 if they offer that again).

Tabby
Calico (I like that one)
Lion (that sounds stupid)

I'm on 10.1 and it still runs fine! And my OS has the best codename of all: Cheetah.

I don't know if the "comparing windows xp updates to OS X" comment was directed to me, but if so, My comment that there will be 75 "critical updates" to windows to deal with the latest worms before Longhorn comes out was not intended to suggest that they were the equivalent to the OS X updates. Quite the opposite, actually.

The point was that Windows XP users wait years before any real improvements...meanwhile they have to deal with constant worms, security holes, exploits, etc.

I'll happily stick with my mac and it's annual REAL upgrades.

And if it had to be a tiger, how about "Bengal"?

"Tiger" just sounds a bit blah... I hope the next one isn't "lion" because that would be even more blah...

But Tiger stripes will be cool, I suppose.

A tiger in Africa? It must have escaped from the zoo.

Panther, Tiger, Jaguar.... Let's stop beating around the bush and just call the next operating system "p****"

"Hot p****",10.69,leaving you wet and always wanting more.......

Then might as well pronounce it as OS x** (as in rated x**) than 10.

Now if it is a Leo- imagine how the logo "x" would look like with a Lion's mane!

60th post!!!!!

Mwaha-ha-ha-ha!!!!

I do hope that this version does provide support for Linux. Its about time Apple start increasing its marketshare.

what are you all talking about?

support linux? wtf?

os x comes with gcc and x11 so you can compile and run most linux sources already.

you can't run linux binaries unless they were compiled for the powerpc. no os x upgrade will change this. so what is all the fuss about? seriously, do you really know what you are talking about?

LOL!! Isn't the Mach kernel good enough for you? >:]

"Did Photoshop 7 cease to function? Does it still have the features you paid for?"

Who are you to assume why a person bought a product? Can you dictate to the author what features their program should have prior to your purchase? Can you pay for only the features you'll actually use? No. When you buy a program, you get the feature set the author thinks is most worthwhile for ALL their potential users, as an average. Your statement about a person buying for features only makes sense if the program you bought is a custom built program with your EXACT desired feature set.

Since that almost never happens (the program has your exact desired feature set), why do you presume that people should have no expectation of features that will become available after the purchase date? People are aware of the fact that software programs frequently are updated in the future with more features. To say that awareness does not factor into to their buying decision at the time of purchase is irrational. MANY times I've bought a program not only because it had several important features I knew I would use, but because the reviews of people who used the program said the author makes frequent updates and charges reasonable prices for them.

"Lynx." I'm sure the Linux fans would approve...

Personally, I'm more concerned that it runs on my iBook 1GHz G4 without lagging. I hope they aren't assuming that we're all going to run out and buy dual-processor G5s or anything.

They're just going by the article Simon.

Who know what Apple has up their sleeve until they tell us. You can knock it now but lets hear what you say afterwards.

Firefox browser improves on Safari by letting me assign keywords to my bookmarks as well as %s word substitution within URLs. For instance, I've got Firefox set up such that if I type "define borborygm" it takes me directly to a dictionary site with that definition. If I type "stock AAPL' it takes me directly to a stock report. I've switched to Firefox on Windows, but like Safari too much to switch on the Mac--I just want that feature!

I've been able to customize Safari to have a "fullscreen" link (courtesy of a script I found on an Apple site)--I want a reall 'full screen" option in all of Apple's sizeable app windows, same as on Windows. In other words, when I say "maximize" I want to make it full screen, not just what Apple thinks of as some sort of "optimum" size.

In the filesystem, using File Sharing between Macs (when using the firewall) or between Mac and Win is still far too complex--it was much easier in OS9.

I want more customizability over what items show up on my desktop--there's just not quite enough granularity.

I've got multiple user setups on my Macs--and I find myself having to Get Info and change the permissions on files or folders far too frequently. The problem is that the unix-like permissions are totally cryptic to me--and Apple Help is no help! Disguise that stuff from me and let me easily set files and folders to have read/write/create/delete access by a specific person or by 'anyone"--no reason for me to be a UNIX geek to understand what I'm doing.
Similarly, when I put items in my Shared users folder as one user, the item doesn't automatically have full read/write/delete access for other users. What's with that? Shared should mean shared.

Apple's so totally on the right track with iSync--but it needs to be easier to set up and use, and more automatic. I love the idea that my data is *securely* mirrored and made available regardless of which of my Macs I use to log in, but there's only a limited amount of this data now (bookmarks, for instance). I want more.

I want an Apple-maintained app that helps me securely store and manage my passwords--for web sites, etc. Include other credit card data, etc. Work it with iSync.

I want AppleHelp to suck a lot less--it needs to be much faster (it's improved, but not enough) and more complete. I want to be able to restrict my searches to a particular 'book' better for speed, and only search across books when I want to, rather when it wants to.

I want the Dock to have a Start menu-like list of the apps I launch most often (not just most recently).

I want the Dock to have more contextual information in tooltips or transient windows--such as what iTunes song is currently playing. I know I can extend it with features similar to that--but I don't want to bother extending things. I want features smoothly integrated.

this is a test

Testing

For your first request, Foovius, allow me to introduce you to Sogudi:
http://www.atamadison.com/w/kitzkikz.php?page=Sogudi