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Filmmakers draw attention to iPod's 'dirty secret'

updated 11:35 pm EST, Wed November 26, 2003

iPod\'s \'dirty secret\'

Two filmmakers are getting attention around the Net for an "antiadvertising" project aimed at protesting what they call the -- its battery life, reports CNET News.com. Brothers Casey and Van Neistat, who collaborate on video projects using Mac editing software, said they were told by a technical support representative at Apple Computer that the cost to replace the dead battery in an 18-month-old iPod would be $255--comparable to the cost of a new device. However, in the last two weeks Apple began offering a battery-replacement service for about $106 including shipping.

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Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

11/27, 12:07am | report spam | close Reply |
FUD is spreading.

The battery in my 1st gen iPod which I purchased the week it was released in 2001 still works fine. More FUD.

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11/27, 12:33am | report spam | close Reply |
Get a grip

I can understand being upset with that answer, HOWEVER, to his bill needs to be added the property damage costs.

The good thing is they video taped themselves doing it, so it can be admitted at their trial.

There are more mature ways to handle customer service problems.

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11/27, 12:50am | report spam | close Reply |
NOT NEWS

As you point out, Apple has since corrected the problem. So what's the problem? The Whiner Brothers need to take down their site and pray Apple doesn't take them to court, and the rest of us now know the score, so we can just move on.

Given that the Whiner Brothers' campaign appears to be based on exactly ONE incidence of an iPod battery dying early (possibly), I'm not inclined to give them any credence.

PS. Confidential to the Whiner Brothers: serious filmmakers do not use iMovie. That's not what it's for. Move up to Final Cut Express ... if your battery life can handle it, of course ...

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11/27, 01:22am | report spam | close Reply |
Good for these guys...

Apple tried to s**** them, so s**** Apple. If anyone even takes the time to watch their little movie, they'd hear their call to Apple customer service, where the rep "Ryan" tells them that they might as well just buy another iPod.

Now, anyone else whose iPod's battery dies, can get a much more affordable replacement. Just like with the G4noise.com website/campaign, it often takes a high-profile reaction by consumers before Apple even thinks of budging.

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11/27, 01:46am | report spam | close Reply |
New iPod owners beware

While this is an extreme case, the newer iPods do have shorter battery lifes overall then any older iPod, and they will degrade over time. So, to those saying who needs more then 8 hours, everyone does. So that in two years, they get 8 hours. Because we all know Apple publishes honest battery life estimates *cough* 5 hours on a 15 inch Powerbook *cough*

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11/27, 01:55am | report spam | close Reply |
Battery life...

...in terms of service life not how long a charge lasts is based on the chemical makeup of the battery. Lithium Ion batteries have a known life span based on the number of discharge/recharge cycles. A bigger battery that is charged less frequently will appear to last longer because it is charged fewer times per month. Some people will kill their iPod battery in a few months whereas others will get several years out of them due to usage. The only way to get a longer service life out of an iPod is to either change the type of battery used or go with a higher capacity battery.

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11/27, 02:31am | report spam | close Reply |
Must be New Yawk...

> HOWEVER, to his bill needs to be
> added the property damage costs.

You should really move out of your
suburbs and see how it's like in the
big city. How about all those posters
and notices that have been pasted over by
the iPod ads?

It is perfectly legal to do this - the
areas being stenciled over are like bulletin
boards or telephone poles. You can exercise
your 1st amendment rights like these Apple
customers did.

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11/27, 03:26am | report spam | close Reply |
3G affected?

Does anyone know which iPod Models are affected? There are several parameters here, which are not discussed:

1. The 3rd generation iPods haven an entirly different battery. The video suggest that the 3G model has this problem (because they are using present and not past in their statement). However: The 3G iPods are not long enough on the market to verify such a statement!

2. The 1st generation iPods (which now are just over 18 month old) hat da Firmware problem which affected charging of the battery. Apple fixed that, but maybe some batteries were damaged at that time.

Note: I own a 3G 40 GB iPod, but I am not worried, since it is easy enough for me to replace the battery by my self (for $50).

Christian
---
http://www.christian-fries.de/osx

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11/27, 04:51am | report spam | close Reply |
Can be replaced by user

ipodbattery.com has instructions on replacing it yourself, and they sell the battery for 50 smacks...

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11/27, 08:02am | report spam | close Reply |
Raise your hand if...

you'd ditch the iPod's trademark silver back for something more utilitarian (which allowed users to swap batteries themselves).

While I'm pleased Apple now offers a battery replacement option and that they're also now offering AppleCare support for the iPod, I'm still amazed the iPod has such severe hardware limitations.

Imagine if Sony tried to pull the same c*** with the original Walkman. Aesthetics or not, this is just bad industrial design. What do users gain from not having access to the battery? A shiny, faux-silver surface that's covered with greasy fingerprints. Nice tradeoff.

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11/27, 09:31am | report spam | close Reply |
How about the website URL

??????

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11/27, 09:36am | report spam | close Reply |
Nevermind...

Google owns me:
http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/

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11/27, 11:12am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Must be New York

"It is perfectly legal to do this - the
areas being stenciled over are like bulletin
boards or telephone poles. You can exercise
your 1st amendment rights like these Apple
customers did."

Wrong. The 1st amendment is not immune to libel or slander. The grafitti stated "The iPod's irreplaceable battery lasts only 18 months."

That would imply the batteries are not replaceable which is false - even at the time, ipodbattery.com was offering replacements. It would also imply that every iPod battery lasts only 18 months - again, false. This guy can be sued.

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11/27, 11:43am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Must be New York

[quote]Wrong. The 1st amendment is not immune to libel or slander. The grafitti stated "The iPod's irreplaceable battery lasts only 18 months."

That would imply the batteries are not replaceable which is false - even at the time, ipodbattery.com was offering replacements. It would also imply that every iPod battery lasts only 18 months - again, false. This guy can be sued.[/quote]

you still don't get it and I do not think that you ever will unless you live in, say, New York. This is life in a big city, those bill boards are used this way all the time. Not to mention that Apple obviously will not sue. As that would just play into the hands of consumer rights activists and/or the news organizations placing Apple in a bad light, which we all know Apple avoids like the plague.

grafitti... heh man that is noth'n

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11/27, 12:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: re: Must be New York

I do get it, but apparently you don't. I was responding to the statement "It is perfectly legal" and it is within "1st amendment right". Those statements are completely false. That is what I was responding too.

I don't care what the culture is in "the big city". Slander and libel are illegal, are not protected by the 1st amendment, whether it is in a magazine, on TV, or on a New York City billboard. The face that Apple will not sue or "it happens all the time in New York" is irrelevant.

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11/27, 12:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
What about

People who use their iPods 90% of the time plugged into either the dock or car charger?

I have a 3G iPod, if Im at home its in my dock, and 9 times out of 10 when Im not at home its plugged into my Belkin car adapter as I use it for my in car stereo

I know the battery life depends on discharge/charge numbers, but does having the ipod plugged in most of the time mean my battery life is going to totally suck or no?

Thanks for any input

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11/27, 12:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Weak case of libel

> do get it, but apparently you don't. I was
> responding to the statement "It is perfectly legal"
> and it is within "1st amendment right". Those
> statements are completely false. That is what I
> was responding too.

Then you really don't get it. The poster responded to a statement that Apple can sue for property damage, when it really cannot do so. The issue of whether what was posted over Apple's ads is libel/slander is another issue.

Libel/slander is hard to prove. The guys who did this can take Apple's statements (battery not replaceable,
might as well buy a new iPod), their own personal experiences, and reach a conclusion, and then do what they did. This is why companies are very careful when making public statements.

These guys should have gone to ipodbattery.com to save money, but their action is legal. My 1G iPod battery died after one year, and I bought a new one. Why?

Because I'm a lawyer :-)

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11/27, 02:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
At the time...

The statement was true at the time it was posted, and reflected Apple's position as illustrated by the rep's statement.
No slander there. The fact that ipodbattery.com was available at that time (but not Apple's replacement program) is irrelevant. Apple's message to the guy was clear: so your battery died after 18 months, tough. Cough up over $250 or get another iPod. Too bad the smear campaign is costing Apple customers, but they asked for it. When you design a product with a non-user-replaceable battery you'd better be prepared to deal with failures. Apple's lack of replacement policy at the time once again shows their total disregard for their customers once they've purchased.

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11/27, 02:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Weak case libel

Uhm... no. I don't care what he was responding to. He made an incorrect statement that it's perfectly legal to stencil incorrect statements about a company on a billboard.

I was not responding to him talking about destruction of property. That is irrelevant.

Is it a weak case - probably. But nonetheless, to publish a claim stating the iPod's battery lasts 18 months based on one battery for the intention of hurting Apple's reputation is libel.

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11/27, 03:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Baloney!

" publish a claim stating the iPod's battery lasts 18 months based on one battery for the intention of hurting Apple's reputation is libel."

So it's not OK to say in this forum that Apple makes defective products with short battery life? What about www.ipodsucks.com?

You're on the losing end of this argument. You aren't going to convince people affected by this from complaining online and by writing true statements over Apple's ads. Apple is admitting as much bye offering the battery service.

Here, let me say this in a public forum - Apple makes unreliable iPods with an 18 month battery life. Happy?

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11/27, 04:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Baloney

"So it's not OK to say in this forum that Apple makes defective products with short battery life? What about www.ipodsucks.com?"

Technically, no, it isn't, unless you have substantial evidence that they are defective.

"You're on the losing end of this argument. "

I don't believe you understand the argument I was trying to make. You keep assuming that I am trying to say a great injustice has been done and Apple could easily (and should) win a law suit against this guy. This is not true. All I am saying is that publishing false claims about someone in an attempt to harm their reputation is libel, and not protected by the 1st amendment. Go look up libel in the dictionary.

"Here, let me say this in a public forum - Apple makes unreliable iPods with an 18 month battery life. Happy?"

That's a different statement. Your statement doesn't imply that every iPod made exhibits that behaviour. The statement on the billboard does.

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11/27, 04:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Lawyer

"Here, let me say this in a public forum - Apple makes unreliable iPods with an 18 month battery life. Happy?"

You really are a c***, aren't you?

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11/27, 08:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Libel

You have to prove damages to win a libel case. Anyone can claim they have been libeled or slandered, but they have to PROVE DAMAGES to win the case.

Do you really think that Apple - a multi-billion dollar corporation - can prove that 2 guys with a paint can did them real, substantial harm?

Get real - you sound like a loser Apple apologist. If Apple needs your legal advice, I'm sure that they know where to find you - posting suck-up posts on the MacNN forums...

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11/27, 08:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hey jerk from Big City

you are clearly CLUEless I am from NYC and it is NOT part of big city life to see that kind of graffiti, and it 100% illegal. Most graffiti here is of the artistic tag kind not the statement bullshit. Either way is illegal and total garbage and I have emailed the NYPD about the link to the crime and the idiots names I will call them tomorrow.

As to what they said they make one phone call and decide they are in the right, and there is no other solution? They are the biggest idiots I have ever seen.

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11/27, 08:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Want the truth?

You may be interested to know that I offered to mirror their video after their original webhost apparently pulled out, with one condition: that they link to, or otherwise inform users about, Apple's official $99 iPod battery replacement, since the video, as it stands, is incorrect: the iPod's battery is replaceable, and, on top of it, there's an official Apple program for $99.

They agreed to provide this information, and said they had no problem telling users how to solve the problem. I, in turn, provided webspace and bandwidth for them. The bottom line: after two days of lies and false starts, and milking my institution's generosity by providing almost 100,000 downloads 0.7 terabytes of data transfer, they NEVER posted any information about how to solve the problem that they promised to post. Their agenda seems clear, and that's sensationalism, melodrama, and attention. The full email exchange is here:

http://das.doit.wisc.edu/neistatsdirtysecret.txt

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11/27, 08:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Geez...

It sounds like an episode of q**** Eye in here. What next, another catfight, this time over who used the last of the KY Warming Jelly?

MacNN is not the place for these types of g** arguments. Try jellyanus.com.

f***.

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11/27, 09:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Libel

It's amazing you guys can even figure out how to use a keyboard let alone post here.

If Apple wanted to, they could easily prove harm - just a few interviews with people that saw the grafitti is enough to do it. Whether they pursue it or not is irrelevant.

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11/27, 11:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
jesus enough already

Whine, b**** and moan.."my battery died after I used it for 18 months....it should last forever and any repair should be free..." These brothers should be taken out back and beaten. Damn pricks.

And Americans wonder why the rest of the world hates them.

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11/28, 01:23am | report spam | close Reply |
no right

"It is perfectly legal to do this - the
areas being stenciled over are like bulletin
boards or telephone poles. You can exercise
your 1st amendment rights like these Apple
customers did."

Wrong. Modifying the iPod posters with a false claim about the product is not covered by the first amendment.

They incorrectly published that the 'iPod's unreplaceable battery lasts only 18 months' which is incorrect in 2 respects. The iPod batteries are replaceable and they can last longer than 18 months.

The libelous stenciling and subsequent campaign to further propogate the misinformation was obviously done with the malicious intent of generating a negative view of Apple's iPod product to dissuade future sales and thus reduce Apple revenues.

Apple should sue these guys for libel and slander.

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11/28, 01:27am | report spam | close Reply |
get a clue

"you still don't get it and I do not think that you ever will unless you live in, say, New York. This is life in a big city, those bill boards are used this way all the time."

Oh big surprise. Crime happens every day in New York.

You seem to miss the point that regardless of how often it happens in the big city, it is still wrong.

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11/28, 01:34am | report spam | close Reply |
wrong again

" The statement was true at the time it was posted, and reflected Apple's position as illustrated by the rep's statement."

No it did not reflect the Apple rep's statement. The Apple rep told them that battery could indeed be replaced. Their graffiti claimed that iPod batteries could not be replaced; that was not true and they knew it.

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11/28, 12:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Huh?

"This is life in a big city, those bill boards are used this way all the time."

People get murdered in big cities every day. That's why murder is legal now.

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12/01, 11:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
oh no

This iPod was a lemon, we've gotten them before whether due to battery life or another flaw. Vandalism of commercial property will make a statement and maybe people will stop buying iPod's.
On the other hand, if this is seen as slander than it'd be hard to justify not buying an iPod because of two people's experience.

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12/02, 01:05am | report spam | close Reply |
RE:New iPod owners beware

My 15 inch powerbook battery lasted a good 5 hours when it was fresh and new. You must be overworking your machine or not using good energy saver techniques.

Anyway, my first 1G ipod battery came bad, my second 1G iPod had other problems and the battery only lasted about 8 hours. But my 3rd 1G iPod got easily 13 hours on it's battery.

Secondly. Do these guys call GE when their light bulbs burn out. I mean come on, shouldn't they last forever. Everyone knows that nothing lasts forever and that rechargeable batteries are not infinitely rechargeable. Apple even advertises on their website that their batteries last anywhere between 300-500 recharges. 18 months at everyday use, i'd say that's pretty good. Think about it, there are 365 days in a year, if you listen to your 1G iPod for 4-5 hours a day (without skipping ahead songs, but who doesn't) and charge it only when the battery dies, that's about 18-24 months.

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12/02, 01:28am | report spam | close Reply |
watched their video

They should watch their own video. The tech says something along the lines of "You can have it refurbished for the $255 fee." It sounds like they wanted a cheap (probably $20) solution to their problem. The tech did not say "We can't fix it, you have to buy a new one."

Did anyone read their statement? (Link above video) They sent their iPod to "Steve Jobs executive office" (or whatever) to complain.

Bottom line is, Apple is in the business of making money. They don't have to offer you a replacement battery (even thought they are probably still making a c***-load off of people sending their batteries in). The right way to protest this though was not through vandalism (which is illegal, even in New York). They could have had a non-violent protest outside of an Apple store or other store that sells iPods.

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12/02, 02:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um

"They should watch their own video. The tech says something along the lines of "You can have it refurbished for the $255 fee.""

In other words, buy a new iPod. He knew apple was ripping people off with their $255 refurb fee, otherwise he wouldn't have made that comment about getting a new iPod.

People, I have long since come to the conclusion that apple is now in the game of ripping people off. The whole business has become about marketing and making shiny products at insanely steap prices. Apple KNOWS people buy their products just because it's apple, and there's this whole "fit and finish" motif going on which makes people willing to shell out way more money then they would for any "normal" computer product. Apple repeatedly screws people by not offering upgrades, providing a few cool features while ignoring basic functionality, etc. And why do that do that? Because we keep buying!

Suggestion: if you get fucked by an iPod, DON'T BUY ANOTHER ONE. Except for iTMS, there are MANY quality mp3 players on the market for less money who's manufacturers won't f*** you over and actually care about customer service.

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01/27, 07:06am | report spam | close Reply |
F.U.C.K IPOD

I have 8 Month IPOD, this S.H.I.T is dying in less than 3 HOURS. NOW what the F.U.C.K AM I suppose to PAY F.U.C.K.I.N.G $$100+ S&H

SAY IT OUT LOUD

F.U.C.K IPOD

BUT I LOVE MY POWERBOOK

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Filmmakers draw attention to iPod's 'dirty secret'

updated 11:35 pm EST, Wed November 26, 2003

iPod\'s \'dirty secret\'

Related Articles

Recent Articles

FUD is spreading.

Get a grip

NOT NEWS

Good for these guys...

New iPod owners beware

Battery life...

Must be New Yawk...

3G affected?

Can be replaced by user

Raise your hand if...

How about the website URL

Nevermind...

Re: Must be New York

re: Must be New York

Re: re: Must be New York

What about

Weak case of libel

At the time...

Re: Weak case libel

Baloney!

Re: Baloney

Lawyer

Libel

Hey jerk from Big City

Want the truth?

Geez...

Re: Libel

jesus enough already

no right

get a clue

wrong again

Huh?

oh no

RE:New iPod owners beware

watched their video

Um

F.U.C.K IPOD

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