Interesting model shift/changes.

Looks like they almost "crippled" the 12" iBook to keep it from getting too competitive with the 12" PB.

- same processor spec as 12" PB (only in 14" model, 12" model max at 800 mhz)
- half the L2 cache (just when it was clear that upping the L2 cache to 512k improved 12" PB performance
- "faster" system bus than original iBook) but memory still slower than new 12" PB
- not sure about graphic card performance
- optional Bluetooth
- no Superdrive
- no DVI output

However, the look is pretty much a PB 12" in white.

How dare apple upgrade the iBooks to G4s. I just bought a iBook 900 just a few days ago (OK, in June) and now its outdated and c***. This just blows!!!

Oh, and where were all the rumor sites on this one. I didn't hear a peep out of them about G4 iBooks anytime soon.

Looks like they almost "crippled" the 12" iBook to keep it from getting too competitive with the 12" PB.

Ummm, or you can say "Looks like they stripped the 12" Pbook to get it to a decent price point.

There have been rumors about Apple changing the iBooks to the G4 for almost as long as I think as the G4 has been available (or at least almost immediately after they did the PowerBook G4). This doesn't come as a huge surprise really.

Unfortunately Apple didn't take the oppurtunity to up the ante on the screen for the 14". Would have been nice to see a 1152x870 resolution on it.

While some apps will definitely benefit from the G4, in some cases a 900 MHz G3 will beat out an 800 MHz G4. That may be one of those "all other things being equal" circumstances though.

Quote "I bought the eMac from an independent reseller so I highly doubt they'll give me the $300 difference. Damn... :("

Your indy reseller is fully price protected, so they will be getting their money back from Apple, so I suggest you go get yours. Usually the price protection period is small, but social engineer yourself a partial refund by runnin yer yap loud enough (if they give you any b.s.). If they refuse to give you the partial refund, call Apple (1-800-SOS-APPLE) and let' em know yer reseller has no ethics. Apple will create a CS code for you and it'll all work out. That's if $300 is really worth it to you.

Ex-Apple Specialist

There have been rumors about Apple changing the iBooks to the G4 for almost as long as I think as the G4 has been available (or at least almost immediately after they did the PowerBook G4). This doesn't come as a huge surprise really.

Oh yes, just like there's been rumors that apple's coming out with a PDA-like device any minute now. I'm sure the rumor sites will be patting themselves on the back like usual ("As we first reported back in January, Apple has come out with a G4 iBook"), the point is that the rumor sites usually start posting their 'exclusives' and such just days or hours before an announcement (as that's when people outside of the loop start to find out about them). But this time, nothing.

Oh, and remember, the rumor sites were rumor-mongering about a new 15" AlBook way back in January, then Feb, March, April, May (when it was almost guaranteed that June was the month), June, July, August, and Septemeber. Then, it was "See, we told you!". Duh, without a single source in Apple, I could've told them the obvious.

I think that the G4 in thte iBook is really he next gen IBM G3 that has an altivec unit. They claim a 6 hour batery life you could not get that witha motorola chip.

The specs show 256 of on chip l2 cache which has also been on all of the spec that IBM has put out on the next gen G3.

If true, this is good news becuase IBM's speed road map for this baby is much better than Motorola's

It was saying 2-3 weeks, and I only ordered the PowerBook because I wanted a G4 processor to run my FCP, now I can get a machine at half the price to do more or less the same tasks, thanks apple!

Apple does have a notebook for under $1000. Look farther down the Apple Store page and you'll see G3 iBooks available for $899!

All machine have a base of 256 Megs, both the eMacs and the iBooks. Base models use to be 128 Megs on these machines.

" How dare apple upgrade the iBooks to G4s. I just bought a iBook 900 just a few days ago (OK, in June) and now its outdated and c***. This just blows!!!

Oh, and where were all the rumor sites on this one. I didn't hear a peep out of them about G4 iBooks anytime soon."

I do hope you're kidding. Surely, you don't think Apple should hold back their iBook line from advancing just to make you feel better for a while longer? You've already had the thing for four months. Did you think your iBook was c*** yesterday? Then why do you think so today? Does a G4 iBook suddenly make yours slow down? If you didn't think it was worth the money, you shouldn't have bought it.

Wow. I come to work this morning and have e-mails saying g4 iBook! I was like whatever, but it's true.
I think it is important to have a machine at the $999 price point or less. Low end educational model is $999 or a special edu only model is $949 but its c***.

$949.00

800MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache @ 800MHz
12-inch TFT Display
1024x768 resolution
128MB DDR266 SDRAM
30GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200
32MB DDR video memory


Not good specs at all. Only 128 megs RAM and only a CD-ROM drive. Not that I have a problem with a CD-ROM drive. I use my iBook as my secondary, portable machine so I have no need for a burner.

All in all good job Apple!

This uses the old no L3, 256kb L2 G4. Sorta like a G4 celeron. This was the horrible chip used in the slow PB G5 550 and 1st gen 667 that were no faster than the old 500 MHz G4 1MB L2 version. So for $1100 you too can have a machine that was a speed demon in 1999. Just totally lame that the 12" which is the most practical size wise, is stuck at 800 MHz and will be much slower than the 933 G3 it replaces for everything except Altivec!

I’m confused…. Look at the 14" iBook specs; look at the 12" PowerBook specs. Why should I pay an extra $100 for the PowerBook with the smaller screen? (I know the G4 in the PowerBook is better, but I’m talking about the average consumer.)

Of course, maybe I just answered my own question…. Those in the know (or who want more portability) will pay the extra $100.

And why do they now have two 14" models and only one 12" model? Sheesh, what about some choice for those who like smaller notebooks for their increased portability?

I’m confused…. Look at the 14" iBook specs; look at the 12" PowerBook specs. Why should I pay an extra $100 for the PowerBook with the smaller screen? (I know the G4 in the PowerBook is better, but I’m talking about the average consumer.)

The PB is faster all-around (it is a powerbook after all), can be upgraded to a superdrive, has a video out port for dual display abilities.

This uses the old no L3, 256kb L2 G4. Sorta like a G4 celeron. This was the horrible chip used in the slow PB G5 550 and 1st gen 667 that were no faster than the old 500 MHz G4 1MB L2 version. So for $1100 you too can have a machine that was a speed demon in 1999. Just totally lame that the 12" which is the most practical size wise, is stuck at 800 MHz and will be much slower than the 933 G3 it replaces for everything except Altivec!



of course this makes the assumption its the same chip from way back when. But if you actually read the reviews of the new Pbooks, which have no L3 cache at all, no one is pointing out increased slowness due to this fact over previous models. Why? Because the chip itself is better. Oh, and the old, old powerbooks didn't have the faster bus and memory to make up for the shortcomings of limited cache.

Here's an idea, why not wait for some qualified reviews/benchmarks on the speed of the things before you go off and blast it as being underpowered.

Sheesh. Nothing is ever enough. It's not the top of the shelf G4, the sscreen resolution isn't high enough, the education base model is 'c***'. Have you ever thought about the target audience for these machines? Personally, I think this is a great upgrade, with more connectivity (yes, two USB 2.0 ports - nice nod to that world), slot load drive (more durable in schools no doubt. This is a great upgrade. Quite your whining or go get a degree in EE and then start making better machines.

.....not a pro machine. Quit all the whining about speed and memory. They're meant to sell to schools and for people who use Word at Starbucks. If Apple went crazy with the features and specs, no one would buy the Powerbooks. Enough.

Not only did Apple say goodbye to G3s but also goodbye to 802.11b..finally we're ALL on 802.11g...

Apple does have an iBook under $1,000...if you're a student, you can get the bare min. 12" iBook for $949.. Of course that's just with a CD Rom drive.. If you get that basic one in a Combo, then tis $999.

Still a pretty good deal for a G4 if you ask me!!

Apple should have stayed with the G3. The G4's are over rated and altec is next to useless for most people. Apple should have moved over to faster IBM G3's and forget about altec. G3's have better battery life and generate less heat. Apple could have had a true consumer model (G3)and a true pro line (G4).

Folks, stop complaining already. Technology always improves. I bought a Powerbook last week and could have gotten a cheaper iBook this week. 3 weeks after I bought my 15 Gig iPod, a 20 came out at the same price. Big freakin' deal. I picked out what I needed and paid what I felt was a fair price. Things always get better. Who cares? Or if you do, then just sit on the sidelines and keep waiting forever. You know eventually, you'll be able to buy a 50 Ghz laptop and an iPod with terabyte storage that will send movies to you TV over GB wireless. If I were you, I wouldn't buy anything till that comes out.

Apple should have stayed with the G3. The G4's are over rated and altec is next to useless for most people. Apple should have moved over to faster IBM G3's and forget about altec. G3's have better battery life and generate less heat. Apple could have had a true consumer model (G3)and a true pro line (G4).

Ummm, first its altivec, not altec (they make crappy speakers with little support). Second, the "rumors" stated that the new IBM G3s were G3s with an added Altivec unit, so technically they were still in the "G3" family (i.e. the G3 architecture), but with a AV unit. Add to the fact that there is no real G3 or G4 chip, these are apple designations (just like the G5 isn't the "G5" we all heard about from Motorola for the past three years). So, if you take a G3 chip, paste on an Altivec unit, hey, Apple could use it and call it a G4 (since mopst everyone equates G4 to Altivec, not to one of 16 of Motorola's variations on their "G4").

So much complaining about a great release; no more G3, internal Bluetooth option, 802.11g... I don't see anything to complain about.

The prices are great, and I can get a good, fast G4 Mac for $1549 (with Bluetooth), when I was thinking about spending $2500 for the 1.25 GHz 15" AlBook.

I will probably order one within a week.

The $949 machine is a joke. 128MB RAM for OS X? Unless you use textedit as a word processor, that system isn't going to run too well. As long as they still offer the G3 iBooks, with 256MB of RAM for under $1000, then the real value laptop market (

They unloaded 'tons' of G3 ibooks to schools which is fine for certain tasks, some of Apple's own software only works well with a G4/G5 (altivec).

There's going to be bad taste in School districts mouth when they say, what do you mean it doesn't run FCP very well, what do you mean we bought very out of date 2 generation old CPU's with the districts meager budget for computers??

I think it'd be in Apple's best interest to get all their product line to a G5 asap. Even now, people aren't going to want to buy an iMac as it's already a generation old CPU ... Apple would of been smart to come out with a G5 iMac this month (christmas, etc.) but probably won't be till spring?

Apple is always touting their 'software', but a lot of their software needs new hardware. My son's school has a TON of G3 iMacs and they're talking Dell now as they'd have to do a LOT of hardware upgrades to run OSX so they're thinkin' new boxes. Apple is loosing big time in Education.

The $949 machine is a joke. 128MB RAM for OS X? Unless you use textedit as a word processor, that system isn't going to run too well. As long as they still offer the G3 iBooks, with 256MB of RAM for under $1000, then the real value laptop market (

Yeah, and if they started it out at 256, people would whine because they're paying extra for Apple's overpriced RAM.

new episode of south park AND new ibooks! woo hoo!

There's going to be bad taste in School districts mouth when they say, what do you mean it doesn't run FCP very well, what do you mean we bought very out of date 2 generation old CPU's with the districts meager budget for computers??

First, they don't run FCP AT ALL, since FCP requires a G4. Second, the schools aren't buying iBooks to run FCP, they'd run iMovie instead (which does run) if they needed movie editing at all (schools can barely afford computers, you think they're going to buy 100 licenses for FCP for their students????). These computers in schools aren't bought for high-end use. They generally get used for internet searching, paper writing, etc. You do understand that, right.

Second, the cheap PCs come with Celeron processors. You want to talk about ancient technologies, mention that as well.

Yeah, move everything to a G5. Hmmm... entry level iBooks starting at $2499. Sure, what a great deal!

School districts aren't running FCP on all their machines - they're running iMovie if anything. Anyone using FCP knows enough to buy a better machine.

So many armchair CEOs!

I think it'd be in Apple's best interest to get all their product line to a G5 asap. Even now, people aren't going to want to buy an iMac as it's already a generation old CPU ... Apple would of been smart to come out with a G5 iMac this month (christmas, etc.) but probably won't be till spring?


Really! Who cares if G5 supplies are constrained! Who cares if the processor produces so much heat it'd melt the iBooks and iMacs casing! Get them in there now, deal with the consequences later!

Apple is always touting their 'software', but a lot of their software needs new hardware. My son's school has a TON of G3 iMacs and they're talking Dell now as they'd have to do a LOT of hardware upgrades to run OSX so they're thinkin' new boxes. Apple is loosing big time in Education.

Oh, and if they had 3 year old Dells, and wanted to upgrade to XP, they wouldn't also be talking new machines?

The new G4 iBook is a welcome update to that product line. Let's hope that Apple will offer some improved product quality control as well - there are many folks, including myself, that were screwed by failing motherboard/videoboard problems on the last generation iBook models.

The question remains, however: why does Apple complicate the product matrix with slight variations on a theme? Jobs had the right idea when he presented the simple four-box product line with the earlier CRT iMacs. I knew he was giving up that idea when he introduced the cube in 450 and 500 MHz models - a whole 10% speed difference presented as a different "model".

Apple has the right idea in offering 256 MB RAM and 32 MB updated video consistantly on all of the retail iBooks. But why is the 12" iBook available with an 800 MHz CPU while the 14" iBook is offered with either a 933 MHz or 1 GHz? Again, we see a tiny CPU speed difference offered as if that constitutes a different "model". It's bizarre and potentially confusing to the consumer. The difference between the iBook models should be the same primary difference between the PowerBook models: the screen size. Both iBook models could have been offered with a consistent 933 MHz G4, which seems "more/faster" to consumers than the "old/slow" 900 MHz G3 model, but is "less/slower" than the PowerBook models (which also offer the superdrive as a differentiator).

The (very) simple example product line should look like:

12" iBook, G4 933 MHz, 256 MB RAM, 30 GB HD, CD-RW/DVD
14" iBook, G4 933 MHz, 256 MB RAM, 30 GB HD, CD-RW/DVD

12" PB, G4 1.25 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 60 GB HD, SuperDrive
15" PB, G4 1.25 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 60 GB HD, SuperDrive
17" PB, G4 1.25 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 60 GB HD, SuperDrive

Customers could build-to-order different RAM and HD sizes.

I hope current Apple management doesn't head in the direction of previous Apple marketing that brought us seemingly dozens of permutations of systems all bearing different model names/numbers...!

for the passing of the G3 processor. She gave us a good six years.

(About bloody time! I thought she'd never die.)

The 12" iBook is an awesome machine for the price. Good work, boys 'n' girls!

Choice isn't a bad thing; confusing product lines are. It makes good marketing sense to offer a stripped-down model so that you can say "starting at..." and not have that price scare the c*** out of people. Customers have complained for years that Apple doesn't provide enough options; every customer's situation is different, and where some folks don't care about 933Mhz vs 1GHz, others need every bit of speed they can get but are obsessed with portability. Others are obsessed with price and will take an 800MHz 12" model and be happy with it.

The real problem happens when there are major overlaps in the product line, where the differentiating features are so minor (or different but equivalent) that people just scratch their heads trying to figure out which one they should get. Personally I'm a bit confused as to what the difference is between the new 12" iBook and the 12" PB G4, other than case color and video-out. ( I haven't looked too hard, but that's my point. It should be fairly obvious that one is the Pro machine and the other is the Consumer machine, and right now they overlap.)

But I don't think that just eliminating models is the answer (or at least they shouldn't eliminate the least expensive one!). They need to explain what the differences are so that customers can make an easy choice based on their needs and their wallet.

I think that you're absolutely right, however I think that it would do great wonders for marketing to have all the iBook G4 line be at 1 GHz. The measly 67 MHz would get all of Apple's lines out of the sub GHz range.

If the birth of online sales of computers mean anything... it's that small product matrixes are dead. Example 1 is Dell. By offering a huge and diverse product line, they outsold HP and every other PC maker. if you have a need, Dell can prodive something. In the day of zero inventory, you can custimize your products to best fit consumers instead of herding them into buying either oversaturatied or ill equiped products. Example 2 is Apple. Weeks after the iMac G4 was released, Apple came out with the eMac. The iMac could not sell in education or value household. it was too expensive. The eMac gives you near iMac performance for a much cheaper price. Also, Apple continues to sell legacy product lines side by side with current lines. Where does the iBook G3 or PowerMac G4 fit in 2x2?

Customers have a good selection from Apple's line. Whether it be the value based iBook G3 or eMac, the lifestyle based iMac G4 or iBook G4, or the high end PowerMac G4, PowerBook G4, and PowerMac G5. By having a product line this diverse, Apple can target customers who would otherwise shy away from Apple due to price.

I know someone will correct me...

Double L2 cache
167Mhz Bus vs 133MHz Bus
DVI and supports independent monitors
DDR333 vs DDR266
FW800
Bluetooth built in
Optional Super Drive

The end result is that the PBG4 would be a faster machine. CPU MHz isn't everything. The System Bus, Cache, and RAM support do make a big difference. As stated before with 1/2 cache, the iBook G4 is like a P4 Celeron compared to a real P4.

Doesn't Quartz Extreme require a G4?

Out in drives today. This is simply GREAT NEWS. AS for this matirx being complicated - you're effin' kidding, right? God, some if us Mac users are complete idiots.
Also, the eMac at under $800? That rocks.
Good news all-around today.

Doesn't Quartz Extreme require a G4?

No, Quartz extreme uses the GPU on supported video cards to process. So it works on G3s and G4s (works on my ibook G3, at least). Now, some tasks in Panther may use or require a G4 (like iDVD - required, although not part of panther - and iTunes - used if its there, but not required) to improve efficiency and processing, but nothing requires it per se.

I'm happy the iBook finally has a G4 so am no longer reluctant to recommend it to general consumers (given that OS-X's graphics are optimized for G4's alti-vec, and more and more software will require at least G4s in the future). However, I'll still save up for a PowerBook, mainly because it can be expanded to 2GB RAM max (1.5GB on 12"). 640MB max on the iBook is too low a ceiling for Photoshop work.

Even tho I consider myself a power user, I don't need a superdrive for day-2-day use. I use external FW drives, but I probably don't need FW800 for any of my hardware. While bluetooth seems like a nice luxury, I don't personally have a PDA or phone that has bluetooth (tho i have friends that do...).

I do, however, use the dual monitor thing with my Powerbook which I feel adds a lot to my productivity at home. An interesting fact is that while I was shopping for a PC notebook for my gf, I found out that MANY Pc notebooks can do the dual monitor thing (ex the HP Compaq X1000 series, Dell 8500/8600s, etc) but just don't really hype up that capability. For me, this would be a deal breaker on the iBook, but to be honest, VERY VERY FEW people take advantage of this feature, instead choosing to save desk space.

I think the iBook is an awesome deal, and it rightly should take away from the sales of especially the 12" Powerbook. I'm not a big fan of the 14" version--- it just doesn't do anything right for me. It's not ultraportable nor does it have the dual monitor feature (even tho the Ati Radeon 9200 is more than capable of doing it).

I'm surprising that Apple didn't choose to save money and use the older Radeon 7500 on the ibook instead. Could have saved another $50 or so, bringing the price under $1k.

"Second, the cheap PCs come with Celeron processors. You want to talk about ancient technologies, mention that as well."

Very well, explain to me how Celeron is an ancient technology. This is a reason why some in the PC world think all Mac uers are idiots.

Celeron is a moniker Intel use like how Apple applies its Gx moniker to Motorla and IBM processors. Therefore, the P4-based Celerons are technically very different than the P3 or P2 based Celerons like how G5s are different from G4s and G4s although they are called Gx PPCs.

The P4 Celerons compete extremely well with their non-800FSB non-HT P4 bretheren and represent a very good value.

So STFU and stop bringing in PC/Windows/MS/Linux/hardware stuff if you have no idea what you are talking about and make us look stupid. Stick to the Apple stuff.

"Very well, explain to me how Celeron is an ancient technology. This is a reason why some in the PC world think all Mac uers are idiots."

Because it is a crippled, poor performing P4. You know, like how early P4's were getting smoked by slower clocked P3's and Athlons. We won't talk how the motherboard technology is older as well.

Heck, even the current P4 isn't all that great when a lower clocked Athlon can keep up. And it gets smoked by an even lower clocked G5...

"The P4 Celerons compete extremely well with their non-800FSB non-HT P4 bretheren and represent a very good value."

No they don't - even the Duron was smoking the P4 Celerons. And, for the same price point, you can get an Athlon @ the price of a De-Celeron and have a machine that can keep pace (and sometimes smoke) a higher priced P4.

"So STFU and stop bringing in PC/Windows/MS/Linux/hardware stuff if you have no idea what you are talking about and make us look stupid. Stick to the Apple stuff."

Unfortunately for you, I've been in the IT space for quite a long time and know both sides of the fence.

I don't buy anything without G5 processor, the only competitive CPU of Apple.

First, you talk about early P4s. That is three f****** years ago. Think you can come back to the present? The current Celerons are really just P4s with a smaller cache and slower FSB. Sure, they are crippled as they are INTENDED because they are meant to be the value line. However, they perform just fine. Go check out Tom's Hardware's 65 CPU round up - Celeron 2 ghz is solidly between P4 1.8 and P4 2.0.

"Heck, even the current P4 isn't all that great when a lower clocked Athlon can keep up. And it gets smoked by an even lower clocked G5... "

Really, show me a benchmark where the current P4s (800Mhz FSB, HT) is beat by Athlon 3200+? And G5 is competitive but does not quite smoke things yet. P4 3.2, Athlon 64, Opeteron, etc beat G5 in many benchmarks just like how dual 2 ghz G5 is beating x86 in some benchmarks. So stop being a zealot a** and get real.

"even the Duron was smoking the P4 Celerons."

Again, an example of your living in the past. Yes, that was true... in 2001! Duron as we know it ceased production in 1Q 2002. That is more than a year and half ago.

"Unfortunately for you, I've been in the IT space for quite a long time and know both sides of the fence. "

Unfortunately for you, I have since moved up to management (of IT). You look like you should still be in IT, if you are truly in one... for even longer.

I buy computers for a school. This is a great deal (maxed out iBook G4 at just over $1500!) Additionally, I buy in bulk (20 or more units at a time) and Apple will give me a volume discount (or perhaps a free AirPort Extreme Base Station.) Schools will buy these. We currently have the 700 MHz iBook G3s and they have endured 4th and 5th graders for 3 years. Also, Apple now has a slot-loading optical drive so there isn't any drawers to protrude and break off. Along those lines, we do have some Toshiba laptops and everything protrudes from them. The wireless card's antennae sticks out the side, we have to use external bluetooth adapters for our interactive whiteboards, and they only came with USB 1.1! Finally, schools do use FCP. In our case, we buy Power Mac G5s or PowerBook G4s to run it. Everybody gets iMovie, we save FCX for Intermediate classes and FCP for advanced classes. Summary, use the best tool for the job. Want economy, durability, wireless, and small form factor? Buy an iBook. Want performance, a SuperDrive, and DVI? Buy a PowerBook G4. Apple you know what you are doing, keep up the good work.

The first 700 Mhz iBooks came out in mid-'02 so it has only endured 1.5 years MAX, not 3 as you claimed.

" Really, show me a benchmark where the current P4s (800Mhz FSB, HT) is beat by Athlon 3200+? And G5 is competitive but does not quite smoke things yet. P4 3.2, Athlon 64, Opeteron, etc beat G5 in many benchmarks just like how dual 2 ghz G5 is beating x86 in some benchmarks. So stop being a zealot a** and get real."

Last I checked, the Athlon 3000+ was king at:
Office apps
3D creation
Scientific apps
Certain multimedia creation

Definitely beating the P4 3.06 in those areas. I would imagine the 3200+ is about the same.


" "even the Duron was smoking the P4 Celerons."

Again, an example of your living in the past. Yes, that was true... in 2001! Duron as we know it ceased production in 1Q 2002. That is more than a year and half ago."

That's why I said "WAS". Also, if Duron was ended 1Q 2002, how come I bought and rolled out 30 Duron 1.3 boxes in 12/02?

" Unfortunately for you, I have since moved up to management (of IT). You look like you should still be in IT, if you are truly in one... for even longer. "

So did I - now I run my own consulting business.

"Last I checked, the Athlon 3000+ was king at: Office apps, 3D creation, Scientific apps, Certain multimedia creation

Definitely beating the P4 3.06 in those areas. I would imagine the 3200+ is about the same."
********
Check again. I am quoting articles published six months ago. You clearly have not read them.

From Tom's HW "In our extensive benchmark tests, the P4 is always in the lead - we talked about this in our last article High-Flying: AMD Athlon XP 3200+ Squares Off Against Intel P4 3 GHz. " - 6/23/03 http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030623/p4_3200-17.html

From Sharky Extreme: "he benchmark results are very consistent, and when taken from a strictly CPU-based standpoint, certify that the Pentium 4-3.2 GHz is the highest performing desktop CPU on the market. This is an important distinction, since although the Pentium 4-3.0C GHz did take the majority of the benchmark tests against the Athlon XP 3200+, it was not as solid as triumph as we have now." - 6/24/03 http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3261_2226901__8

"That's why I said "WAS". Also, if Duron was ended 1Q 2002, how come I bought and rolled out 30 Duron 1.3 boxes in 12/02?"
****
Well, I can also buy and roll out some Pentium II machines today that does not mean they are still in production.

In any case, I will concede that the end of Duron was rumored in 1Q 02 but the last one was rolled out in Q2 (or Q3?).

"now I run my own consulting business."

Really. I am sure you are really proud of it and certainly you are up-to-date with what's going on in the IT world? Since you are so confident and knowledgeable, please let us know your consulting company then?

Now we all know what the new G4 iBook's mean?
G5 PowerBooks son.

"Unfortunately for you, I have since moved up to management (of IT). You look like you should still be in IT, if you are truly in one... for even longe"

I wouldn't be proud of that. IT Managers are typically the most computer-ignorant people in the computing industry.

"The first 700 Mhz iBooks came out in mid-'02 so it has only endured 1.5 years MAX, not 3 as you claimed."

Uhhh, I think "Schools" was referring to the longevity and durabilty of the iBook in the hands of fourth and fifth graders, not the 700 mHz product cycle...

> 167Mhz Bus vs 133MHz Bus

Nope, both have 133 MHz bus (15" and 17" PowerBooks have 167 MHz)

> DDR333 vs DDR266

Nope, both use PC2100 (266 MHz).

> FW800

Nope, 12" PowerBook only has FW400.

"Check again. I am quoting articles published six months ago. You clearly have not read them."

And if you check Anandtech, you'll find the opposite. As will you if you look at other sites (PC Mag/Zdnet). The fact is that Tom is Intel's b**** and so is Sharky. That's nothing new, and, in the case of Tom, I'd not trust him as far as I can throw him after his BS reporting of the "firy AMD", which, in 10+ years in the business, I've never seen a heatsink just fall off. Now, if you tinker while it's running, you deserve what you get.

" In any case, I will concede that the end of Duron was rumored in 1Q 02 but the last one was rolled out in Q2 (or Q3?). "

Try still available new, from distributors in Q1 '03....

"Really. I am sure you are really proud of it and certainly you are up-to-date with what's going on in the IT world?"

Actually, I'm quite up to date. This month's project is an enterprise backup solution, next months is disaster recovery/business continuity among 2 sites 200 miles apart, who knows what's after that....

If only I could get us away from M$ and onto a Linux/UNIX platform, we could get more money for serious IT work. Oh well, the powers that be decided Micro$haft is the way to go, without the K-Y.

Check out AMD's roadmap @
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_608,00.html

Note Duron is still there at 1H/03, and only goes into "as market requires" at the latter half of 1H/03, surely not '02 as you claim.

Do these new iBooks have cooling fans? I suspect so, but hope not. I love the fan-free aspect of the design of the first-generation (tangerine and blueberry) iBooks, like this one I'm typing on. Very quiet. I think the last design of white G3 iBooks did have a cooling fan, but it came on only when necessary (which was often, I understand, when additional memory is installed).

"And if you check Anandtech, you'll find the opposite"
***
Oh really?

Anandtech says: "With the introduction of the 800MHz, Intel has put the nail in the Athlon XP's coffin... At high clock speeds, there's no denying that the Pentium 4 is the processor to have... So if you're looking to buy the best on the block today, look no further than a Pentium 4" - 6/23/03
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1834&p=16

So remind me again - how are they saying the opposite?

"As will you if you look at other sites (PC Mag/Zdnet)."

Really? Show me. I am listening.

I showed you three instances on how P4 smokes the Athlon XP - WITH quotes, dates, and links. What can you say for yourself? NOTHING. Any solid evidence beside various whining and unsubstantiated rant? I think not.

"Check out AMD's roadmap @
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_608,00.ht"

Really? You believe everything the manufacturer says about its products? Try and see what the rest of the world says:

http://www.google.com/search?q=phase+out+duron&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

"Actually, I'm quite up to date. This month's project is an enterprise backup solution, next months is disaster recovery/business continuity among 2 sites 200 miles apart, who knows what's after that....

If only I could get us away from M$ and onto a Linux/UNIX platform, we could get more money for serious IT work. Oh well, the powers that be decided Micro$haft is the way to go, without the K-Y. "

So, you SEEM to run such a wonderful and amazing company. Advertise yourself on Macnn then if you are so great. What great company have you started or are you bullshitting?

But of course, you cannot get yourself away from MS and cannot get any "serious IT work." Shows how much in the know you are.

"Uhhh, I think "Schools" was referring to the longevity and durabilty of the iBook in the hands of fourth and fifth graders, not the 700 mHz product cycle..."

He did not say that idiot. He said "we currently have the 700 MHz iBook G3s and they have endured 4th and 5th graders for 3 years."

Let me repeat that: he said they "have endured... for 3 years" not could or can or should or what not. That is like me saying my reliable 2002 car have endured 3 years of abuse when it only has been out for say 1.5 years.

Idiots tend to defend each other and I see that is the case with you, dumbass.

My 700 mhz iBook's fan does not come on very often. You cannot compare old PCs to new ones. New CPU, GPU, HD, etc all get hotter as performance increases.

It came along on all 800mhz iBooks, which jumped to 32mb video ram . . . I remember because i turned around and sold the old 700 to get an 800 just because of that!

also, order yours with the biggest HD you can get. well worth it. always get 512 of extra ram and max it out

After owning a revA PBG4 400mhz, with no burner, 8MBs VRAM, and bad Airport reception (had to replace my Airport card with a PC card) the new iBooks are lookin' good to me.

I more than likely won't be editing in Final Cut and burning DVDs or do giant layouts so a nice mid range iBook might replace my old PBG4.

From Anandtedh's review of the AthlonXP 3000+:

"In many cases the Athlon XP 3000+ can outperform the 3.06GHz Pentium 4, while in others it manages to tie with Intel's flagship and yet in others it falls behind just as much. The overall performance is close enough to warrant the 3000+ rating in some cases, but there's no question that it is a very close call between the two top performing CPUs. Looking at the CPU scaling charts alone you can get an idea for how competitive the two CPU families have become, as the Pentium 4 improved in performance and the Athlon XP continued to mature."

"Really? You believe everything the manufacturer says about its products? Try and see what the rest of the world says:"

Considering they're the ones manufacturing them and offering them for sale, the "phase out" would have to begin with them. I don't care what some armchair QB on the 'net thinks is a phaseout - as long as they are still being produced and offered for sale, they are not phased out. Same as every other indusrty.

Sheesh - you call yourself a "manager" - that's scary.

Apple claims that 640 MB is the upper limit. But I wonder if 3rd party upgrades of 1 GB or higher might be tried, and work, in the iBook G4.

"So, you SEEM to run such a wonderful and amazing company. Advertise yourself on Macnn then if you are so great. What great company have you started or are you bullshitting?"

Because I respect that this not the place for such things. If I wanted to, I would take out an ad on the site, not try to self-promote it here.

"But of course, you cannot get yourself away from MS and cannot get any "serious IT work." Shows how much in the know you are."

If you think M$ is the best the IT world has to offer, you are SORELY mistaken (big surprise there).

You're the reason we use Macs.

You quoted a paragraph where it says the chips are competitive. I am not denying that. But what about the conclusion of the article? I repeat below.

There are no if's and but's. This review that you favored (and others) state their opinions in unequivocal terms: "nail in the coffin", "no denying", and "best on the block".

Where's your other PCMag/ZDnet reference? Can't back it up, can you?

Anandtech says: "With the introduction of the 800MHz, Intel has put the nail in the Athlon XP's coffin... At high clock speeds, there's no denying that the Pentium 4 is the processor to have... So if you're looking to buy the best on the block today, look no further than a Pentium 4" - 6/23/03
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1834&p=16

"If you think M$ is the best the IT world has to offer, you are SORELY mistaken (big surprise there)."

Did I say MS is the best? No, I did not, so stop lying and put words in my mouth then. You said it yourself, YOU are the one who cannot get away from MS and thus cannot get more money for serious work. Please, do not extend your reality distortion field to my area. Stop lying.

"You're the reason we use Macs."
***
Oh yeah? What exactly about me is the reason why you use Macs?

Is it:

1) Correcting a person with numerous documented reference that he/she is incorrect?
2) Correcting a person who said that he deployed 700mhz iBooks that have endured for 3 years when it has only been out for 1.5?
3) Or defending myself when someone says I said MS is the best when I clearly do not do so?

Which part of truth and facts about me don't you like and turned you into a Mac user? Maybe I hate myself too so which is why I am a Mac user as well?

How about some constructive commenting on the new iBooks rather than a 3 or 4th grade bickering match!!!!
Why is it that when Apple comes out with a new product, the inevitable Mac Vs. Wintel crowd emerges.
Crawl back into your parent's basements, crack open a six pack of jolt and go back to hacking the planet.

4) None of the above. Your angst. Your typical peecee IT "I must be right in all; must control all; must have last word in everything" attitude. It's a Mac site and page talking of iBooks. Move on. Ciao.

BTW, I own Macs because "I don't wanna tool with my machine, I wanna use it as a tool." Who cares what part number it is, my Mac *system* WORKS.

iBook (for me?) *yawn*

Bickering? tee hee... 'cuz it's so damn entertaining! Why else read Macnn?

So it's the "I must be right in all; must control all; must have last word in everything" attitude that bothers you, eh?

Well, excuse me if I happen to be right and you are an idiot. What, if you say the earth is flat and you are a Mac user I cannot correct you? And is insisting I am right and citing evidence to back it a PeeCee IT attitude? Please, your immaturity bores me.

As a former WinTel person, I hate the WinTel vs Mac more than any one of you here. However, for some crazy reason, Mac users like to bring it up more than anything else. So this is a iBook G4 discussion thread. Than some dumbass had to bring up how Celeron is an ancient technology (it's not, just not how G5 is not an ancient technology because it happens to share the same moniker convention as G3), how top-o-line Athlon "smokes" top-o-line (it does not), and how dare I correct Mr. "I believe Earth is flat and other untruths and if you correct me then you must be a PeeCee IT Mr P4".

Geez, none of this would have started if you just stick talking about Mac (which is what all of us want to talk about) instead of talking about WinTel which you clearly do not understand.

I happen to like the 1024x768 res. I have keratoconus in one eye, so I need the 'large-ish' resolution so my eyes don't go all freakish from of the strain of viewing the tiny fonts rendering inherent with larger resolutions.
Time to enroll in school or get a gubmint job so I can get that discount...

The PB also has DVD burner available as builtin, the iBook does not..so if you want iDVD you need a PB (hey, that rhymes...)

I got a qestion.
For Multimedia is a standard PowerBook 12" better than
an Ibook 12" with maxed out and ram and basically turbo charged to flat out, all acc. And whats going on really are just paying for looks with a Powwerbook it is it really so much better. Please let me know mc_manky@hotmail.com