they are well aware of that... and have even gone so far as vaguely approving of it. there was a interview with an anonymous high ranking employee of a 'leading graphic design software manufacterer' that said that the more piratred copies are in the hands of high schoolers today the more purchased copies will happen when those high schoolers work for a business that purchases large amounts of software. the interview was 7-8 years ago. i forget which mag it was in.

worked for me... i had pirated copies of photoshop 2 & 3 back in high school... and i regularly purchase dozens of copies of *all* the Adobe Design Collection apps for the company i work for now.

I assume that this is Photoshop 8? Or is this some kind of "special edition"? Stupid version numbering, it's so confusing.

At 170 bucks, I think this is the largest upgrade price in Photoshop's history. I didn't mind that much spending 130 bucks every two years to keep up to date, but now???

Also, can we confirm that "Filter Layers" is out? Was that the name they were going to call it? i.e. are we talking about ANY editing action can be in a layer and not directly change the original documents pixels (like healing brush actions that currently can NOT be on an adjustment layer)?

that's the ugliest name ever! don't call it CS, stick with photoshop 8, illustrator 11. but NO CS! maybe they will drop it for the next version

There will be no pirating of the CS products. Check out the system reqquirements:

"Internet or phone connection required for product activation "

-zip

Same features that are still overpriced.

As a non-professional user of Photoshop, I would probably upgrade from PS7 if CS has better OS X support (sheets, non-modal dialog boxes, etc).

Does any one know if this changes in the new version?

I get academic pricing, and it's paid for from my expense account, so upgrades don't cost me anything :)

Zip says:

There will be no pirating of the CS products. Check out the system reqquirements:

"Internet or phone connection required for product activation "

I say...

Wanna bet? There are _multiple_ pirated versions of Quark 6 and Windoze XP and Office XP easly available. If Quark and Microsoft can have their activation cracked, why can't the same be done to Adobe?

There seems to be much talk and hostility on the CS part and not on what the actual applications do or have approved on. But I do agree. CS is confusing for if your just upgrade a few apps (Photoshop and illustrator) it doesn't make sense.
CS stands for....
A) Creative Suite
B) c*** Shoot of a marketing plan
C) Crazy Stuff I work with
D) pretty Colored Software i use

Feel free to add your own interpretation of what the CS could be

Copy the url below for a closer look at the lovely lady who was Adobe Illustrator. See here pictures on previous Illustrator boxes. And read a brief eulogy to the beloved icon we all knew.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39881&perpage=33&pagenumber=2

In the land of college, CS is OBVIOUSLY Computer Science. Duh.

Oh, what about C.S. Lewis? That should count for something too.

Not only will Adobe CS products require "activation" (initially for Windows only; later for MacOS probably with a bug fix or incremental version upgrade), but you will have to get Adobe permission to move the software to a new (i.e., different) machine. IOW, you don't own the software, you don't have the right to sell it to anybody else.

Adobe promises to release permanent activation means if the product is discontinued; but that is vague enough so that any particular version could forever be restricted.

I have a full copy of InDesign and was going to upgrade to CS, but the only app that they allow an upgrade to the CS bundle is photoshop.

Bah

Of course the BIG questions to me are, (a) will there be an affordable edu. version, and (b) will these programs continue the Adobe tradition of being too slow to run on any but the most advanced machines? Dreamweaver's slow enough to be unusable for many people. I was looking to GoLive 7 (sorry, "CS") as an alternative.

Boy oh boy, are these things expensive. Needlessly so in some cases. Adobe must be rolling in it. There are so many bugs in GoLive that have yet to be fixed (maybe in CS?), yet they charge hundreds for a very popular package...which couldn't have cost them that much to buy and "develop."

"that their pricing pretty much guarantees that nobody who uses these apps for non-professional purposes will ever pay for them?"

Yes, and this is why they came out with Photoshop Elements. They KNOW people love Photoshop, but typically can't pay for it. So they offer a more limited version to get people hooked.

"said that the more piratred copies are in the hands of high schoolers today the more purchased copies will happen when those high schoolers work for a business"

Wow. That's the most forward thinking strategy on piracy I've ever seen. I totally agree with the statement, and it reflects a real understanding of what's going on. Typically I pirated a piece of software in collage, because I didn't have the money, but I still wanted to be able to use powerful software. Now that I'm out, and I'm making money, there's less reason for me to not buy the software I use. It also puts the power with me: if the software is really worthy of purchase, I will purchase (instead of getting stuck with software that I find out later is actually limited.) Also too the exec is right: having used photoshop and knowing it's power, I would most likely recommend my business purchasing it so I can continue to use it in a business environment.

stands for C*ck sucker....

The more a software program is desired, the more effort that will go into cracking it. Unless we get stuck with a full DRM operating system that completely restricts cracking software, there's not a thing that software companies can do. Proven by the fact that the Macromedia MX 2004 software has already been cracked, despite all their new efforts to stop it (phone home, etc.)

And here in lies the problem. The internet was initially built not to sell products, but for the free flow of information exchange. But because we live in a commercialized world, the commericalization model was forced. Now companies are whining that their sites get hacked and their products pirated. Well, duh! Data is just data. It shows no special distinction, except that certain programs can read it while others can't. Likewise, a certain OS can run a program while another can't. So long as data can by copied and distributed, people will pirate and crack.

The only solution, as a I say, is full DRM. But individuals will resist it. People like their anonymity. They like that they own their own software and they don't have some company breathing down their neck telling them what they can and cannot do. So it will be VERY hard to convince people to accept DRM. It just goes against our sense of privacy and free will.

Think Secret mentions that Adobe took the ability to create dynamic pages (a la databases) out of GoLive with this version. Checking over their website, I find no mention of database-drive web pages. Why would they do this? Does Adobe *want* everyone to move to Dreamweaver? Odd.

large companies will not plug each mac into a NON-system phone line to register anything . u got to be kidding. Even over the internet. We have one number for all of our adobe suite and Quark. That wont change.


I hope .. what a mess

"Copy the url below for a closer look at the lovely lady who was Adobe Illustrator. See here pictures on previous Illustrator boxes. And read a brief eulogy to the beloved icon we all knew."

Not only is this lame, but the Phoshop "eye" is gone. Both programs have been known by these symbols for something like 15 years, why change them now?

$1200?!?

I paid $350 for the academic versions of this software and more (Photoshop 7 with Image Ready, Illustrator 10, InDesign 2, GoLive 6, Live Motion, Adobe Acrobat 5). It cam in a a special package.

How can Adboe charge this much money?

Looks like anotehr job for Acquisition!

make things look old. And not necessarily better or more valid of a product but it could also mean that it has been through too many updates. Look at Canvas, what is it at now, 15? i don't know, and that product hasn't even been around that long.

In other words it's all about marketing strategy for aging aging aging old products.

Not many programs have been around longer than Canvas. Gotta be at least 13 years.

I would expect to find tampons in these boxes not industry level software. CS! hahahahahahahaha. At best a "me too" version of Macromedia's lame MX. I won't comment on these upgrades nor will I go on what beta testers have said but I will say the upgrade price jump is not welcome.

Let's assume I want to upgrade single apps, of which I own the latest versions of everything but Illustrator. Under this idiotic naming, pricing and bundling scheme, how in the world would I say, manage to upgrade just InDesign and GoLive but not PS? And if I upgrade the full package, do I get Illustrator even if I don't own it? Makes me kick myself for ever buying earlier upgrade dogs (Acrobat 6 anyone) if all I had to do was own one to pay the same price as someone who owns them all.

They haven't fixed all the bugs (or, um ANY) from photoshop 7. By releasing PSCS they can essentially charge customers for bug fixes.

That special package you bought for $350 edu. would have cost just as much as this one at normal prices. The edu. pricing for the verison of the creative suite including golive and acrobat is only $380, not much of a difference. So quit 'cher whinin' :)

You can only upgrade to the Creative Suite bundle if you own a previous Photoshop, NO OTHER APP. which sucks a**.

You can upgrade from the same app, ie if you own InDesign 2 you can upgrade to CS, but you dont get a break on the bundle :(

...that which wasn't "broken" to begin with. visual identity and packaging, version numbering, licensing and upgrade paths all changed at once (except for acrobat... what is up with that???). talk about a mess.

Adobe's store isn't working, microwarehouse isn't listing it. I want to order edu version of the new package, for mac, "available for preorder" doesn't include the web apparently. I need a catalog # to submit a request to purchasing dept.

I called Adobe today to see if I could get a break on the Photoshop CS (or is it "cs"? ;-) upgrade, since I upgraded to Photoshop 7 less than a month ago. No such luck; only purchases of Photoshop 7 made today or after today qualify for the "pay shipping only" upgrade.

That sucks. If I had known an upgrade was coming, I could have waited a couple weeks. :-(

... is really a total desaster. I don't remember that Digidesign charged more for localization if I bought Protools, I don't remember that Emagic charged more for localization.

BUT ADOBE charges a total of € 500 bucks more for the german CS suite than for the international english version. Now, don't tell me that they have additional costs with localization as this could easily be automated with software...

ITS SNAPPY

500 is a c*** load.. whats going on with that company...

I see nothing confusing about the CS monogram. The version numbers are included with each application as usual. Stop your complaining. Everytime I read the letters in this forum, it's usualy about bitching and complaining, only for you guys to later retract your earlier statements.

Why don't you all just wait and see. And then complain until you're blue in the face.

gawd!

Do you think it will ever happen or will just be LiveMotion RiP

Hey, I feel for ya, but I think this situation of yours is proof positive that the rumor sites actually have SOME value. :) Think Secret had news on these impending upgrades a month or more back. They even had the date nailed when Adobe announced this press conference to tout their "new direction", or whatever it was.

Now, as far the upgrades, I think the new CS tag is stupid. I wish all these companies would stop it already with these silly letter suffixes. To be fair, it started with Apple and OS X, although at LEAST the X stands for a roman numeral 10 and not just a silly letter. Then came MS, with Office v.X. What's the next version going to be? v.Y? v.XI? I mean come on already! Then Macromedia with Studio MX, et al. As someone here noted, the MX doesn't even MEAN anything. Good grief! Well, at least the CS stands for something. Still, this is all getting out of control and silly IMHO.

I'm surprised no one has commented on InDesign CS (3). I've been looking at their PDF brochure of the new features, and it looks impressive. It looks like Adobe really addressed user concerns and gripes with this release. Nice new stuff, like a context sensitive Control Palette, very much like QuarkXPress' Measurements Palette. They've needed that since day one- glad to see they eliminated alot of the clunky palettes you used to need to have open all the time. Also a (claimed) 50-80% speed increase! If that's even HALF true, it's impressive! I'll be getting the new InDesign as soon as it's available. This could put some more nails in Quark's coffin.

As for the upgrade paths, etc. someone here complained about how they could upgrade individual apps. You CAN upgrade them one by one, which MAY make more sense, depending on what you want/need. For example, I only want ID, Illustrator and PS. Each is approx. $170, so around $510 for all 3, or you can upgrade to the whole "Standard" suite for $540 (if you already own PS that is), which also includes Acrobat 6. But in my case, I already have Acrobat 6, so I don't need it. Looks like how you choose to upgrade depends on what you currently own and what you need.

The new features in Photoshop CS are of little consequence, why buy the upgrade? Many of these tools and features are old hat, they just got repackaged. There comes a point at which upgrades become irrelevant; if you can't do what you need to do in Photoshop with the present set of tools, then you are just weak and need an education, not more tools.

GoLive CS = GoLive CyberStudio!!!

Ah, glad to see Adobe is turning back the clock :)

So, I just bought InDesign v2.0, as well as Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Professional, and I already own Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10, LiveMotion 2.0, and PageMaker 7.0.

And I've paid (dearly) for upgrades all along.

So what's the great deal offered to me as a loyal and longstanding Adobe customer?! FULL GOUGE-ME PRICING!

I guess buying both InDesign and Acrobat 6 Pro was a mistake, because I get NO DEAL to upgrade to the Creative Studio Suite. $749 for the upgrade!! No consideration for recent purchase of InDesign v2 or Acrobat Pro v6.

I can't afford this company much longer to meet my design needs. I'll take a closer look at Macromedia, or (god forbid) Corel. :-(

I can't believe they had the audacity to nix my beloved Venus from Illustrator. Consider the eight-year love affair over Adobe.

"Pretty" flowers are what I'm going to have to look at everytime I start up my new "industrial-strength" Illustrator? Does this soft(er)ware upgrade include a barf bag?

About the name thing. So they named it a stupid name. So the old mascots on the box are gone. So what. Photoshop is still photoshop. It's annoying that all these companies suddenly feel the need to have "special" version names, but whatever. It's no big deal. h***, MS gets away with putting a year on all their products when it obviously shows you how old a program is. At least with version numbers you know a product is mature since it's had a lot of updates- not necessarily old. If the marketing wonkers want to make a product look "new" by giving it a new name, whatever. It's stupid, but what are you going to do? Marketing people seem to have the most sway nowadays with software- not the engineers.

Which brings me to my next point- that of people whining about not being able to get upgrade pricing. From the looks of it, Adobe hasn't done c*** with these updates. Many photoshoppers are talking about how weak this upgrade is. On top of that, you guys are telling me you can afford every new $200 upgrade that comes along? If I were you, I would just pass on CS. Anyone new to the software will be happy, but the upgrades just aren't worth it. Very disappointing.

It's a shame that marketing wonkers are allowed to call a bunch of bug fixes an "upgrade". But that seems to be happening in the industry more and more.

Like other Adobe customers, I have recent versions of several of the bundled products. There's no consideration of this in the upgrade pricing.

Result? I won't upgrade.

If you want to see Venus, just type in V-E-N-U-S while using Adobe Illustrator CS.