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http://www.macnn.com/articles/03/09/22/iw:.java/

IW: Java for Servers, Apple for desktops

updated 03:05 am EDT, Mon September 22, 2003

 
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Rebutting Sun's desktop Java initiative, Internet Week says the company should remain focused on server Java and providing a better cross-platform Java experience to Mac users: "I have only one piece of advice for Scott: If you really want an alternative to Windows, buy a Mac. It runs Unix just fine, has a great and stable graphical desktop environment that for the most part is Redmond-free," and concluding: "Java on the desktop is an idea that has come and gone. Stick to servers, Scott, and move front and center to fight that battle. ."


by MacNN Staff

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  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Mostly Good Points

    I don't think with a market cap of $13 billion vs. Apple's $8B (with $4B in the bank) that Apple is exactly an easy takeover target for Sun, but other than that comment, the article has some good points.

    Though the thin client model still holds some promise, at this point it just doesn't seem to be happening the way Sun is pushing it. If they were to focus their Java strategy more in the server direction, where it seems much better suited, they'd stand a whole lot better chance of fighting it out with Microsoft (going up against .Net) than they will in the desktop arena, where they're first up against Windows, with the Mac and desktop Linux waiting in the wings as well.

    Of course, as a Mac user, I'd also find it a whole lot more valuable to have Sun pushing standards (not to mention a better Mac-based Java engine) in the server and cross-platform applet space than trying to compete with Apple for corporate dollars.

    I'm on Sun's side so long as they pick their battles well.

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

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    OS X Server

    is still very buggy. At least as far as the GUI is concerned. I hope using the terminal allows users to perform better. Unfortunately, I hardly know any Unix commands.

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

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    Buy Apple ...

    ... good advice for Scott McNealy's personal needs.

    Bad business advice.

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

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    ...um... perhaps...

    People that think that Apple is a bad corporate machine hasn't had to pay a technician $50,000 a year to keep his/her computer network up. I'm talking about a site with less then 200 people.

    OS X server is nice, it's only when you try to go "outside the box" that things start to get a little command line based (I don't like the command line as well)

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    DT java on OSX brilliant

    The author of the article has no idea what he's talking about, to be honest. Years ago, Java desktop apps running on Windows (or mac, for that matter) were really creaky, it's true.
    But try running a well designed Swing application on OSX now - the OSX Java is excellent, and in most cases you won't realise whether you're running a Java app or a native app.
    And if you REALLY want to make a fully native app you can write

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

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    OSX, best Java Platform?

    As a mac user, I started trying to sell the Mac(OS X) to my (Windows based)company as the ideal platform for developing Java apps. Failed, embarassingly, when I found out the Java3D wasn't supported. So perhaps, Java on the desktop isn't quite there.

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Not Java

    First. If this guy had done any research, he would have realized that the "Java Desktop" is Suse Linux running Gnome 2.2 tweaked by Sun with a couple of Java Run Times (one for desktop, one for Mozilla) designed to work "extra special good" with this product.

    It does not run off of the server (or whatever dude was rambling about), the desktop itself and OS are not written in Java (try C/C++).

    Just goes to show you that industry "experts" are often uninformed schmos.

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

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    RE: DT java on OSX brilli

    Despite the fact that OSX does run Java pretty decentily. I have yet to see any really well designed Swing app. Can you please provide a link? Swing is a lousy API and it still strugles with basic needs i.e., layout managers. The current API brings some new ways of laying out UI elements, but if Java on the desktop was any good, then something as basic as layout managers should have been taken care off many years ago. If Sun was serious about desktop Java then they would be saying something like "we have one of the best solutions..." instead they are saying "we are making progress". At this late stage of game. ganging your head on how to layout UI elements is simply unacceptable, in a world that is following Aqua's lead (i.e., Luna).

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

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    Re: not Java

    So what is the point of calling it a Java desktop?? That is mind boggling stupidity when any one of us geeks can figure out what's under the hood.

  1. MacNN.com Reader

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    Joined: Jul 2001

    0

    mistake isn't curret Jav

    Maybe I'm wrong, but shouldn't the disparity of Java apps not working on the mac browswer will entirely disapear, and quickly.

    Microsoft is no longer including or supporting Java as part of lawsuit settlement with Sun.

    Proporietary Java apps should disapear, and developers will either transition to Sun/Standard Java, or, go for porting to .Net, limiting their apps to windows only....

    Sounds like a win for Java and non wintel platforms?

    Or I've missed the point completely, wouldn't be the first time....

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