Morning tech news: Six months after Apple debuted the first 17-inch notebook, Toshiba has unveiled a to rival Oracle's $6.3 billion hostile bid in a letter to shareholders on Tuesday, a day after federal antitrust enforcers requested more information about the bid.
by MacNN Staff
Comments
What an ugly looking f**ker!
it runs windows XP, the worst OS in the history of OSes.
You can get this Toshiba and save over a thousand dollars, though. Even if it is ugly and doesn't have the same hardware set (lacks gigabit, DVD writing, and is heavy), it still costs a lot less because it's not the same.
But the screen is big.
Hey, you can save ANOTHER 2100 by not getting anything at all!
It has a vga out (c***), it's thick weighs 9.9lbs!
that's 3 more than the PB (still is FUGLY).
They have tones of lovely buttons (anly fools fall for such clutter control).
Look they will NEVER come up with what Apple already has let alone what is in the future.
And yes it's windoze so what the F!
I correct my first post, the display is 1440x900
God that thing is ugly. Toshiba makes decent laptops as I used to own one...but geez, that thing looks huge compared to my 17" Powerbook.
I also have DVI out and NOT a silly little VGA out.
Christopher
p.s. It looks thick, bulky and ugly...
WTF is THAT machine? It goes without saying that spec-wise, that machine is no match for the 17'', but looks/build/design must account for something, and that is by far one of the absolute ugliest laptops I have ever seen (and that's even considering those just-as-butt-ugly Dells too).
I don't know; maybe the Wintel masses think this laptop is the end all/be all. But from the outside on in, considering the shoddy specs, Toshiba is unleashing a lemon on its customer base. Makes me cherish my 12'' PB even more.
Hats off to Toshiba for making a 17" laptop for far less than Apple's.
HOWEVER, given that the Toshiba laptop is 50% HEAVIER (10 pounds fer chrissakes!), lower on battery life, lacks a Superdrive, lacks FW800&400, lacks a way to connect it to a digital display, lacks gigabit ethernet and features a grossly inferior OS and set of multimedia apps (not to mention is so ugly it will never attract babes -- one of the prime reasons to own a 17" Powerbook), I'd have to say that even a cursory examination makes the 17" PB a much better deal (though I will admit it's almost time for a small price drop ... say to $2999).
Sorry Toshiba, really nice try though.
9.9lbs !!
Nice try, and that's all "try"
They are still using parallel ports!
would all you pc builders move on and just let go of old technology?
Two interesting pieces of news; Toshiba shipps a huge, shockingly ugly laptop (and they're actually supposed to be good at building portables!), and Gateway cries uncle.
The Gateway thing is interesting; they are (were, now, I guess) a very roughly a similar company to part of what Apple was--they made hardware and tried to sell it through retail stores. Of course, Apple is more like Sony and Gateway's real competition is Dell, which hammered their sorry butt into the ground. Not that Gateway made particularly good products (in fact, quite the opposite in my limited experience), but they certainly couldn't compete with the king of cheap in the no-brainer PC market.
Now, it sounds sort of like they're trying to become the other half of Apple's new business--integrating consumer electronics and computers, in a sort of digital hub thing, except they're just sticking their logo on somebody else's stuff.
Somehow, I just don't see that being able to compete with Apple's highly integrated digital hub strategy, if only because Apple doesn't repackage stuff, they sell things that are (arguably) better than everyone elses (again, more Sony).
Gateway will be trying to kludge around a bunch of different stuff to make it work together, while Apple designs it from the ground up to remove the kludge. Which would you take?
Must really suck to be a Gateway exec--watching Apple start from nothing when you were flying high, and have them utterly embarass you if you put the two companies together.
It sucks for all the following reasons: blah blah blah. Even if it doesn't suck I will still say it sucks because I am Steve's b****. It is unrelated but I will say Microsoft sucks and Intel sucks too because they compete with Apple. The world would be better if there is no competition and just Apple because the world sucks since I own a Mac.
is nothing like Apple. Stop your stupid comparisons.
It is a desktop replacement, people. People in the PC world want their choices. They want and have a subnote that is thinner and smaller than PB 12" and they want and have a desktop replacement that is thicker and bigger than PB 17". So f****** what? Stop being Job's b******.
I was so shocked when I saw the picture of the Toshiba I almost crapped my drawers. Like all PC makers, Toshiba purposely makes their machines horrid looking. Apple's machines are either cute looking or business looking, but never horrid looking. I mean, honestly Toshiba, did you go out of your way to make the "P25-S507" as ugly as it looks, or do you have no clue as to what looks good and what does not?
And that name - "P25-S507" - what does that mean to a consumer? Why not use the UPC code as the name for your product, something along the lines of "Introducing the new 0894076804"????
This machine is hardly stiff competition for the Apple powerbook. I don't know why the author thinks Apple should have to drop the price of their much superior product (looks, specs, OS) to match the price of crappy knock-off. Maybe I should copy the guy's article and reprint it on a different website as my own work, then ask the original author to take a pay cut; at least that what he wants Apple to do.
The main reason this machine will never steal sales from the Apple 17" Powerbook is because of the operating system difference. Any professional that uses Macs all day and wants a legitimate desktop replacement is going to stick with the Powerbook, and will never switch platforms just to hit the road. Likewise, a PC gamer will not likely buy an Apple product because it won't play their Dos/Windows games. I think we all know which machine will last longer - PC's have a reputation for falling apart quickly and Microsoft does a poor job of supporting older hardware. So you buy the Toshiba today, buy another one in a year or two when the first one breaks, buy another one in 3 years because the second one doesn't run longhorn and buy another one 5 years down the line. I will still be running my original, albeit relatively slower, PB from today. My investment: $3300. The PC Guy's investment: $8400.
And you are Balmer's b**** and Grove's whipping boy. So what? Get over it, man. People have a right to gripe, wrongly or otherwise.
One ugly m***!
This machine may weigh 50lbs and be ugly and all that, but it's still got the PowerBook beat in raw performance and price. I guarantee you this machine would beat the pants off the paltry 1ghz PowerBook 100% of the time, and it doesn't cost as much as a used car either. Maybe the better case design of the PowerBook is worth the additional money to some people. Some very sad, impractical, superficial people. The Powerbook may have advantages in terms of Firewire 800, OS (though I've not used XP enough to make an educated determination of this), etc, but did anyone look to see if this machine is configurable with a DVD-RW? You've got to weigh the pros and cons before your predjudice leads you to start dissing stuff people.
Apple fans think everything is a competitor to Apple and think their product is superior to everyone else's (why doesn't anyone buy them then, oh right, Microsoft and Intel conspiracy, ohhhkay).
When in reality, other PC makers are just making things to compete among themselves not with Apple.
Stop this inferiority complex. We use Apple. We are proud of it. Stop having to justify at every opportunity WHY we use Apple. Sheesh.
"And you are Balmer's b**** and Grove's whipping boy."
Oh yeah, back it up. What did I shill for Balmer or Grove? That's right, I did not, so STFU.
"So what? Get over it, man. People have a right to gripe, wrongly or otherwise."
Ok, I will let the Job orgy continue then.
"This machine may weigh 50lbs and be ugly and all that, but it's still got the PowerBook beat in raw performance and price."
Sure, a desktop can beat a laptop. People buying a laptop computer will not consider the Toshiba, at least not if they've ever had a laptop before.
10 pounds is too much!
"...that will compete directly with Apple's."
Yeah, right. :)
Do Mac users impose on wintel sites?
I don't coz it's piss boring probably. So let us Mac users vent a little over copycat c***.
like Toshiba and windoze.
Nice to see that Gateway is shifting to more of an integrated approach to multimedia. Almost a "digital-hub" if you will..
Do yourself a favor and just get out. Your self-righteousness is not needed nor wanted in here.
its no worse off than the G5 cases. I can see people buying this, and considering the cost of it, its a heck of a deal for the windows people. Now they can have their 17' laptop too. This machine is for the many who would NEVER switch.
you guys take everything so personally, Toshiba could care less what apple does, they are competing against of the other PC makers, apple is just like a gnat to the X86 world, just a pest, and thats all....
This computer is vomitous s*** encased in a clam shell.
I've been using my glorious PB 17" for a few months now and even if it weighed in at 12 lbs. I'd happily lug the unit around as it is my only and probably satisfying computer experience I've ever had.
If a computer could give a f****** o*****, this one could. (PB 17")
If any computer could give a f****** miocardial infarction, the Toshiba could, frome sheer UGLY USELESSNESS.
Computers that run windows as their main OS seem to lack greatly in the DESIGN department. I say, why not? The OS is lackluster, so where is the inspiration to make a box that looks good.
The main success APPLE has is that it is the CREATOR of the OS that runs on the boxes they make!!! Why on earth cannot someone somwhere pick up on this!
If Microsoft had any balls, they would make a box. They could call it the XP wonder, as in I wonder what the f*** this ugly f****** thing does!
And only iLink, not true 6 pin Firewire. And 10 lbs? I thought my 1998 Powerbook G3 was heavy. That's 1 step forward, 5 steps back!
Or should the link to the Toshiba POC come with a warning: "Danger: Clicking this link could lead to exposure to poor design and an ugly looking computer. Follow at your own risk."
OK, let's see--comparing the Toshiba with the 17" Powerbook:
Size/Weight--the Toshiba is 16.4x11.5x1.8 (339.48 cubic inches) and 9.9 lbs. The PowerBook is 15.4x10.2x1.0 (157.08 cubic inches) and 6.8 pounds. So, you could fit 2+ PowerBooks in the space taken by the Toshiba.
Battery Life--the Toshiba gets 2 hours of battery life, compared to the PowerBooks 4.5 hours. (Both manufacturers claims, so the real-world numbers for both are likely to be somewhat lower.) So, the PowerBook has 2+ times the battery life of the Toshiba.
In short, the PowerBook is a true laptop, whereas the Toshiba is more of a portable rather than a laptop.
(See http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html and http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/satellite_P25-S507.pdf for the source of these comparisons.)
" Apple fans think everything is a competitor to Apple and think their product is superior to everyone else's (why doesn't anyone buy them then, oh right, Microsoft and Intel conspiracy, ohhhkay)."
Very simple. The percentage of the population of Apple users DIRECTLY relates to the percentage of the population with an IQ over 130. Nuff said.
"This computer is vomitous s*** encased in a clam shell.
I've been using my glorious PB 17" for a few months now and even if it weighed in at 12 lbs. I'd happily lug the unit around as it is my only and probably satisfying computer experience I've ever had."
***
You would use it even if it weighed 120lbs because it is the only satisfying relationship of any kind you've ever had. How sad.
"Do Mac users impose on wintel sites?"
***
I don't know why the automatic assumption that some Mac users have when they encounter another Mac user who is not 100% infactuated with Steve Jobs and think that Apple is not perfect.
Very simple. The percentage of the population of Apple users DIRECTLY relates to the percentage of the population with an IQ over 130. Nuff said.
***
I see you are an exception. You will soon receive a cease and decease letter from Apple soon. :)
It is the sexiest, prettiest computer I have ever seen! My PowerBook is on Ebay! I am buying a Toshiba!
Just thought I post something like this to throw the balance off a bit.
:P
"Do yourself a favor and just get out. Your self-righteousness is not needed nor wanted in here."
***
Yup - only Apple branded self-righteousness allowed here.
I am not saying the other side is always better. I am justing saying that Apple is not always better, unlike some of you.
It saddens me how quickly reasonable comments seem to degenerate into a string of random insults in these comment sections. I don't like PCs, I have fun taking pot-shots at them occasionally, but that doesn't mean I'm a mindless Jobs drone or lacking a grip on reality.
So here's a reasonable comparison between the only two 17" laptops in existance right now:
Completely ignoring the OS issue (which makes an iBook more useful to me than this Toshiba), the specs are pretty close for the most part. Since the Toshiba doesn't include built-in Bluetooth or a cable, you can add $100 to it's price to get it on par with the G4 in that department, making it about $1000 cheaper.
The Toshiba is probably much faster (I don't know much about mobile Pentiums, though), and has a better graphics card. It however comes with worse software, lacks FW800 (say what you will, that's a potentially compelling feature if you REALLY want to do hardcore desktop work on a laptop), and lacks gigabit ethernet (another potential big deal).
It's also 3 pounds heavier (no small issue), and the battery life is listed as up to 2 hours, as opposed to Apple's claimed 4.5 hours on the 17" (if these specs are accurate, that's a huge difference).
So, if you don't plan on moving your laptop around much, don't need really high end features, and don't care about Windows, then the Toshiba is a good buy. If you want some serious expansion/network options, or care about weight and battery life, then there is STILL no comparsion to the PB17 anywhere.
And the Toshiba really is ugly, which matters a bit with a portable to some people, just like people prefer to drive nice looking cars. Utilitarian laptops don't have to be ugly, but this one seems to go out of its way. Maybe it looks better in person.
Personally, if I was going to lug around a 10-pound laptop, I'd get an Alienware box; at least those are better looking and have more desktop-replacing power, which is about all a 10-pound 2-hour-life laptop is good for anyway.
The Toshiba is in a class called DeskNote - no such class for Apple so not really comparable. Where were you people when Sony came out with 16" laptop and when only Apple had a 15"? Oh right, you were the same one cheering when Apple came out the the 17" and no one else had it.
That's right. Technology keeps on one-upping each other. Apple is great but it is not always the best. I like Apple too but you people have to accept the fact that Apple is not infallible.
jeesh, go count your mhz in silence. WE DON'T GIVE A RATS a**! i've owned harleys for over 30 years and i could buy a cheaper faster japanese knockoff but i won't. it's all about the experience and i've experienced wintel and i'm stickin with my mac. bugger off.
Microsoft didn't get it's market share by being the best.
This is a simple fact, such as most people who only know Microsoft are simple minded. It's not their fault, I don't blame them, because I was one of them for over a decade.
I began with DOS, which by the way is far better than any GUI made by MS.
Being a conoseur of computers, software, and OS', I find my understanding of the quality over quantity issue prevails when you are speaking of Microsoft based machines v. Apple
Here are a few truths:
1. PC's run way faster than any Apple.
Who cares? What software do the masses use that will require this difference? GAMES. That's it.
BTW: I'm a graphic professional, and enjoy the robustness, and the SOLIDITIY of my Mac. PB 17".
2. PC's have more software.
Yeah. More games, more garbage software, and about 1000 times more viri, viruses, however you prefer.
3. PC laptops come with Windows pre-loaded.
Pre-loaded! Now how about that for no choice.
Oh,yeah Apples come with Mac OS pre-loaded...but Apple created the OS and the computer both.... dumbasses.
Harley looks like s***. Performs even worse. How's that for an opinion.
I keep on telling you these two are different classes and can't be compared and still the zealots don't see it. Oh well, the SuperDrive version of this Toshiba is more than a $1000 less then PB 17". So what this means is that you can buy this and still get an iBook or an eMac to complete the Apple experience. Happy?
I have never seen people so happy to pay MORE.
Harely's are ugly?
I would say unique, since they defined that type of bike.
They perform worse?
Sorry, but you are wrong. Sure, out the door they aren't like the j** bikes that soon probably find themselves wrapped around a pole, or in a ditch because they got the high-speed-shakes out of a toll booth.... but.
They perform fine, how fast do you want to go? I have a friend who can do it for you on a hog.... and it will beat any straight line j** bike out.
But, that isn't the draw of a HOG. It is the sound the V-twin makes that no other bike can make. It is an experience that one must take in. Given this "Give it to me now world", the Harley has many detractors, much like APPLE.
It's also a private club, that only Harley owners will know or appreciate. Great marketing gimic eh?
Personally, I'd rather have a DUCATI.
V-twin with it's own magical music.
How about that for an educated oppinion?
Dumbass.
I have never seen people so happy to pay MORE.
This topic has been beaten to death. I'm willing to pay more for the 17" PB than for the 17" Toshiba because the PB is a better product. It's thinner, lighter, runs OS X, looks nicer, has better battery life, a slot-loading superdrive and DVI out.
I would rather buy one luxurious computer than a crappy 17" Toshiba and a low-end Mac for what you say is the same amount of money.
I would buy a BMW 7 series too but the difference is, I do not look down on people who buy cars that are below the 7 series.
You get the point. Not everyone is interested in the same redneck bike you like. Some people like the Italian e.g Ducati, some people like Japanese ones, well, you like big honky bikes. That is called opinions - I respect that. So why do you think it is ok for Mac users to not tolerate any other views?
You say that the Toshiba so easily compares to the Apple and brag about the 802.11a as a quality the Mac falls short of, why don't you mention a few other things:
2 hour battery life instead of 5 ( I mean come on, 2 hours and as that is the spec they gave it I bet it doesn't even get 1.5)
10/100mb ethernet connection instead of 10/100/1000. That is going to be something they will not be able to upgrade in the future and they will want it.
Digital Video. Everything is going to DVI and the Toshiba doesn't have it.
2.2lb heavier and almost twice as thick as the Apple
COME ON YOU GUYS. HOW DOES THIS THING EVEN COME CLOSE?
BULLSHIT:
I have driven on the road with BMW 7 series a*******, and it has been my displeasure to be cut off by them! and JAGuar drivers.
They bought an expensive car and they own the f****** road.
Tell me I'm wrong. Dumbass.
Apple users don't look down on you, we pitty you.
Why?
Because you most likely don't know why you are using a computer, and that you don't have to have the fastest computer in order to have a long-lived useful, and satisfying experience.
I drive a CHEVY, but my computer is a PB 17".
It isn't the speed that kills you, it's the deceleration trauma.
BTW: If you owned a BMW 7 series, you WOULD look down on me in my Chevy. Don't lie.
Why the f*** do you think someone buys a BMW?
It's a great car?
$75,000 dollars for a great car.
Do you think you can shop around and find a better, unique quality car?
s***, for $50,000 you can have a great car, then put $15,000 in an account for your kids future college, then buy a PB 17" and still have CHANGE.
DUMBASS.
I would buy a BMW 7 series too but the difference is, I do not look down on people who buy cars that are below the 7 series.
Normally I wouldn't either. The problem with the computing journal industry is that authors are often unprepared to understand the subtle differences in computing power. You'd never hear a car magazine author compare the 7 series to a Honda because most of them are hard core car buffs. On the other hand, most technology authors hate technology or use computers for very basic tasks like email, internet, word. That's how superior technologies like Apple's get lumped in with c*** from Wintel.
Aside from the gimicky 17" screen, Toshiba's laptop doesn't come close to Apple's in functionality or power. I don't see how the author can conclude that Toshiba's pricing for its 17" laptop can possibly pressure pricing by Apple.
"They bought an expensive car and they own the f****** road"
"They bought an expensive laptop and they think own the ficking computer world.
*****
Apple users don't look down on you, we pitty you.
BMW drivers don't look down on you Chevy drivers, we pitty [sic] you.
***
Heck, I don't even drive a BMW but I know why I am defending them! Down with ignorance!
Oh, last one:
s***, for $50,000 you can have a great car, then put $15,000 in an account for your kids future college, then buy a PB 17" and still have CHANGE.
s***, for $3200 you can have a great laptop, then put a grand oe two in an account for your kids [sic] future then still buy an iPod and still have CHANGE.
"Redneck" bike.
LOL.
You do know by the way most HD riders are lawyers and doctors and cops.
PROFESSIONALS.
Dumbass.
The problem with the computing journal industry is that authors are often unprepared to understand the subtle differences in computing power.
***
Right, whereas you as a computer enthusiast do. I mean, those people only write about computers for a living. How could they *EVER* undstand the subtle differences? You can and should go teach them a thing or two. Heck, why don't you start a magazine or a column where you can show people how you understand the subtle differences in computer power? Tell me what you do for a living and see how you feel when ignorant people tell you you do not know s*** and think they can do better?
Journalist, starting=$30k/year
Tech support, starting=$40k/year
Programmer, starting=$70k/year
NetEng/LNA/ServerAdmin, starting=$70k/year
Elect Engingeer, starting=$100k/year
Tell me why I should write for journals again?
I love the fact that the communications industry is going to undergo consolidation. We'll see how well journalists deal with their monopoly after being so happy with Microsoft's. If the world can get by with a single computer platform, we can get by with a single news source as well, especially since many of them only repeat each other.
What? You can't whip up a column in your spare time? Since you undestand the profound (sorry subtle) differences, surely you will be syndicated widely and make some extra money in addition to your lucrative job.
I did not even mention Microsoft, you did.
I think the "profound" differences between the two laptops are presented well in this thread. Unfortunately, no mention of these is made in the article.
Consequently it appears that the article by Arik Hesseldahl is either poorly researched or purposefully misleading in order to better present the toshiba notebook as a competitor to the Apple notebook when in fact it is no more a competitor to the powerbook than a Honda is to a 7-series.
Sorry if that means I'm looking down at you.
The worst thing about being a mac user is other mac users. Hey. shut the h*** up about how 'superior' the pb 17 is. The toshiba is faster and cheaper, and it'll probably outsell the pb.
Otherwise, its unattractive and doesnt contain all the high-end parts the pb has. its heavier because its a desktop replacement, it has a full p4 and according to people i know with p4 laptops, will get half of that 2-hour battery life it claims.
I agree, "Other mac users".
Faster how? Have you forgotten the Mghz myth? Guess so.
Desktop replacement? It is a desktop!
1 hour life per charge. (vomit)
I have one computer, it is my desktop and my laptop.
PB 17".
It gets 3 hourse of battery life on average, and I have two batteries. I love this thing, and I also run XP.
It is the superior computer in all aspects, except perceived speed.
For the difference in price from the PB and the Toshiba, and the difference in time LOST in recovering files, et al (PC/Windows) c***, I'll take the PB every time, but only because I took a chance and SWITCHED.
Now I'm an APPLE evangelist, because of only one thing.
My experience with the machine.
period.
Although the PowerBook is a far superior laptop to the Toshiba, Toshiba knows how to play the advertising game and Apple clearly does not. Why?
Let's look at the specs from the average customer's point of view.
The average customer is GUARANTEED to see these particular items in every ad, with the highest priority item at the top.
$$ PRICE $$
Processor speed
Hard drive space
RAM
Optical Drive
For the laptops in question, the average customer MIGHT see these items. Certain items are omitted for the sake of marketing.
Display size
Battery life
Weight
Graphics coprocessor
Wireless networking options, Ethernet speed
Ports
Notice that the ads DO NOT mention a thing about software bundles, extra features (such as the PowerBook's auto-lighting keyboard), software bundles, reliablity, and overall computing experience. In other words, all the extra perks that make Macs better than PCs are omitted from the ads. I don't know why, but that's just the way it is!
If I were a customer wanting to buy a 17" laptop, I would compare the specs displayed in the ads, and decide on the Toshiba. Why?
The Toshiba's price beats out the PowerBook by a grand. That alone would put the Toshiba in much higher standing. The Toshiba is 2.8 GHz, while the PowerBook is only 1.0 GHz. Therefore, I reason that the Toshiba faster. The HD space and the RAM are the same, so both laptops tie there. And the PowerBook lets me burn DVDs, unlike the Toshiba. But at least the Toshiba can burn my pirated MP3s to CDs, so it's okay, considering that it's 1.8 GHz faster and costs a grand less.
Now, since resellers want to sell computers, they will omit the bad parts. Advertisers will NEVER admit to the Toshiba having a battery life of 2 hours (theoretical), and weighing in at a hefty 9.9 lbs. They will never say that the Toshiba is about twice the size of the PowerBook. But they WILL say that the laptop has "FAST 54 Mbps wireless networking!" (note that they don't say that it's the inferior 802.11a).
No wonder people don't buy Macs. Sad but true, it's all in the advertising, which is all most people see.
I might take you more seriosuly if you stop say j** bikes. But if you are going to sound like a redneck, I am going to call your ride a red-neck bike.
ALL APPLE HAS TO DO IS:
Have an infomercial.
DELL
HOW DOES THIS THING EVEN COME CLOSE?
How does $1000 buck sound to you?
j**
Now I'm an APPLE evangelist, because of only one thing.
My experience with the machine.
period.
***
I told you once and I will tell you again. Stop f****** your PB! It is not meant for f******. Please have some human relationship and experiences!
Seriously, your machine with two batteries is 50% more than the other machine. You cannot compare things when they are that far apart. Like I said before, you are willing to, change that, GLAD to pay $3200 for your machine instead of questioning why it can't be $2700.
And yes, I accept Apple hardware has to cost more. I am glad to pay the premium but not $1000 in this case.
I swear, i cringe every time I hear someone mention the mhz myth. This was a marketing campaign that will live in infamy. It did more to warp reality than anything dreamt of in Sci-fi. Here's a reality check for the fundamentalist Steve-ologists:
There is some truth to the Mhz myth. This means, that at the same clock speed, a G4 can be faster than a Pentium 4. On average, a 1 ghz G4 might perform like a 1.5 ghz Pentium. What this DOES NOT mean, is that a 1ghz processor is as fast or faster than a Pentium 4 at 3 TIMES it's clock frequency.
The bottom line is that Apple's flagship laptop is the slowest and probably most expensive laptop of any computer manufacturer. It's a nice laptop, but it's hardly a peformer.
If your only needs include a 17" screen, 1 hour of battery life and you will happily carry around 10 pounds of dead weight, can stomach Windows XP and have a use for 20-year legacy technology like parallel ports - that Toshiba has your name all over it. Get it and be happy - you saved $1000!
For a 25% premium I can use the additional functionality and features the Powerbook offers that would cost me the same to add to the Toshiba. Firewire, 802.11g, bluetooth, superdrive, lighter weight and better battery life - these aren't features I'd like: these are features I need and use everyday. Show me a Toshiba that has all that with the 17" screen for less and I might be a buyer.
AMD has pretty much taught PC going public that clock speed does not mean that much among x86 processors (although AMD has been not catching up in the past six months or so).
Lastly, MEGAhertz myth? You cannot even buy a PC with
20-year legacy technology
Oh, like BSD?
Please, only sleek Ducati people allowed on this board.
No redneck bikes please. This means even if you own a Mac. We don't like rednecks to buy Apple too.
No, 20-year legacy technology like Windows. Craptastic!
"And yes, I accept Apple hardware has to cost more. I am glad to pay the premium but not $1000 in this case. "
While I am *%$#ing my PowerBook, you can go get screwed by Toshiba.
Windows 1.0 was released in 1985. Making it less than 20 years old. :)
OOOOH! Damn, that was a great cumback! ;)
Oh, and BMW bikes all the f****** way, niggaz!
"You're Ballmer's b****"
"you suck Jobs' a**"
We can do better than that, people.
But I will say for those who are actually taking up the pro-Toshiba argument, PLEASE do not use the price/raw power 'reason." The Toshiba beats the 17'' in WHAT, exactly? WHAT can the Toshiba do that the PB 17'' cannot?
And double-please, STOP with the hypocrisy. You say, "but the Toshiba is $1,000 cheaper," but fail to mention all the goodness that the Toshiba laptop is missing.
A fair, true and honest side-by-side comparision will show that the only arena Toshiba is beating the PB 17 is in price, and price ALONE. And wehny ou factor in the overall cheesiness aspect with the certain repair/replace costs, and Apple truly comes out ontop.
Again.
Flame on, pecephites. But let's hear from someone *anyone?* who would, in their RIGHT mind, purchase this POS over a PB 17''. You get what you pay for.
But let's hear from someone *anyone?* who would, in their RIGHT mind, purchase this POS over a PB 17''. You get what you pay for.
***
Sure, so why aren't everyone driving BMW 7 then? Oh that's right, people's price points are different!
I will say it, Toshiba is $1000 cheaper and does not have everything the PB 17" has. It differs with PB 17" in both the price and what it offers. However, what I object is that people (zealots) don't get this and immediately call it (actually, anything not made by Apple) POS by instinct.
"the certain repair/replace cost"
***
Oh, like PB17 does not have its set of problems as shown in MACNN's forums? And as if you know the repair/replace cost of the just released Toshiba?
*lol* You people tickle me. No, really, you do.
Excuse me there, Mr. Also, but I have a distinct history with Toshiba, Dell and Gateway laptops, and I know all too well how much it takes to repair one. I work in the newsroom of major daily publication, and trust me, those laptops are, indeed, POS. And what exactly, Mr. Also, needed repairing on any PB 17'' you secretly desire so? What? dead pixels? Stuck touchpad? Oh wait, no: those were problems with the LAST Toshiba laptop that made its way through the newsroom. I won't stoop to name-calling, but come on guys, use your common effin' sense!
And to Mr. Reply: You AGAIN make the stupid-a** BMW=Apple connection. But what you fail to take into account Mr. Comparative/Analyst, is that people who can AFFORD and PREFER top-shelf items will buy them. If you desire a Yugo, go buy one. Just don't be upset at that BMW humming by you.
*ahem* to repeat: you get what you pay for. Including a terrible knock-off of an award winner. YOU'VE read the specs yourself. I'm no zealot, thou who loveth to sling colorful adjectives: PC use is a fact of life in my profession, but Macs are a much-needed tool. So I am coming from a fairly objective backround.
But be for real now. I heard two things: the Toshiba is cheaper.
Did anyone *yes, you too, Messrs. Also and Comparative/Anylyst.
Please, enough mindless banter already. IF its not better than the PB17, WGAF!
Apple BMW. I did not make this one up. Mac fan boy LOOOOVE this comparison despite how invalid it is.
Also, why is everyone buying the PC laptops then if they are ALL POS? Oh right, must be some MS/Intel conspiracy thing because those people do not see the light like YOU do.
Sure, of course you get what you paid for. What car are you driving? Why are you not driving a top of the line car? What? You can't pay for it? Bingo.
The ratio of price between this toshiba and the PB is not even close to that of a very very very nice car and a chevy.
The comparison is weak at best.
If you use a computer and rely on it for your information, and work, then the $1000 difference can be justified by omitting other things in your life that are not so necessary.
What I am saying is, the choice to have a computer at all is sometimes a whim, or part of your life.
If it is part of your livelyhood, then I can't see not making the PB choice. Most of those people using PC's are kids playing GAMES, or people stuck at work crunching numbers on boxes.
When discussing a consumer buying a laptop for home, chances are they are going to walk into a store and buy a PC, because it's easy, though this is changing as Apple is opening stores and educdating people as to the positive points of their product. THANK GOD.
They actually make it a fun experience!
Not, like buying a car for instance.
I can't think why anyone cannot buy a mac laptop. The price is more than competative. ibooks are cheap! and they are really nice computers. If you need a PB 17" like I do, as a graphic artist, then by all means, I highly recommend it. I've switched as I had just been sick and tired of my POS pc laptop having so many problems. This is one of many stories.
Why do people use a PC with Windows, and keep buying them over and over and over again?
It's insanity if you ask me. Maybe they think the next version of WIndows will be more stable, secure.. the next patch will fix their problems.
HOW MANY PATCHES can one OS, Browser have? I mean jesus f****** christ! That is pathetic. If I owned a car that crashed as many times as this OS, I'd be dead.
Sometimes you gotta say What the f***, and ante up for something worth having in the long run.
I need a f****** job.
"a machine that will compete directly with Apple's"
"At least one target market for this machine, given the release date, is the college dorm set"
...So Toshiba's ugly beast is aimed at students, and that somehow competes directly with Apple's top of the line pro laptop? I don't really know where to start picking this article to pieces, but that seems like a good a place as any.
Oh, and as long as the "students" don't wander very far from an outlet, this bad-a** doesn't last but 2 hours, well, in real world cut that in half, so 1 hour.... whip-dee-f******-doo!
What happend to that CENTRINO technology?
You can get a T-40 IBM that will last 7 hours!
16 inch screen, and it runs WINBLOWZ.
I can't see any student going for this, as they have enough to lug around. Hasn't TOSHIBA heard of BOOKS? s***, a nice 12" ibook or PB would do the trick much better. Even my PB 17" at only 6 lbs....
NO WAY.
And that is not $1,000 difference.
There are too many inequeties with the Toshiba, that cannot equate to a PB. Try a $500 difference all told, and that is not enough to have an educated shopper buy this thing.
Of course, most people are like lemmings anyway so, they'll sell that POS.
somebody walked into my dorm room carrying a Toshiba Satellite P25-S507 I'd laugh my a** off. What kind of a goober would use that ugly thing?
I may be hard on Apple, but the only thing going for this overweight beast is raw speed. And a parallel port. Take that, PB 17"!
Better start working out before getting this fatasslaptop.
Yeah, that is just great, and what is that good for?
What can that computer do that my computer can't do?
PB 17".
Oh yeah, that's right.
Play games, really fast, and crash that much faster destroying all my hard work.
No freaking way, I would ever use a machine that ran Windoze
No freaking way.
...if you're paying for computing by the pound.
9.9lbs - sheesh!
I'm so sorry to see how many Macnn users behave.
We get to read much more profanity than say, a few months back.
We can' t even express ourselves unless we're ready be called dumbass, moron, ...
We must say Apple is great, MS sucks in order to fit in.
You guys have no idea what democracy is about, have you ?
If you like Windows so much stop complaining and enjoy it. It's your computer so it shouldn't matter what any of us say about it.
I can't think why anyone cannot buy a mac laptop.
***
You need to stop going to cocktail parties. Tutor a kid from the inner-city neighborhood. Do some good. Stop thinking everything can buy a Mac laptop.
It's insanity if you ask me.
***
Right the world is insane and you are the chosen sane few. I wonder why insane people always think that.
HOW MANY PATCHES can one OS, Browser have?
***
Did you forgot how many security updates have been released in the last few months?
Oh, also, it seems Mac is starting to play the Windows games too (and worse). Charging for .Mac. In the twelve months since I got my Mac, there was one charged update (Jaguar) and another one is right around the corner. Sure, you do not have to upgrade, you might say. But where were you when MS was floating the idea that OS should be 'leased'? that's right, you are cheering that well, Apple is not like that. Guess what, think again.
Now, before the Ballmer's b**** comment start to fly in - I will say up front: OS X is superior to XP. There. My beef is that people who are critical of others, like MS, are surprising silent when it comes to Apple's own faults.
Oh, lastly, we have people say only students will buy this and another saying students will never go for it. So if the Mac users do not agree with each other and their differing opinions are to be respected, why not those of PC users? So - chill out, lie back, enjoy the Apple experience. I think any competition is good. This Toshiba WILL put pressure on Apple and the $ will drop. That is good for me and good for Mac users.
Thanks for making my point.
"My name is Rasmus and i am a Mac-Fanatic"
With that out of the way let me get on my soap box.
I love Apple. I am not going to apologize. I would rather not ever have to deal with a PC and Windows. I don't care if my Mac ran at 1GHZ and PCs at 5GHZ. I really don't need it (atleast now) alot of my friends have 2.4+GHZ machines and they don't need it, they play games and surf the internet. BUT if that is what they want, then that is fine.
I will suggest to everyone i know to buy Macs, even if they pay a little more. Why? because i have dealt with PCs in all shapes and sizes. And i have dealt with windows since 3.1. TO ME (Keywords) Windows is inferior. TO ME PC based hardware is inferior.
If you like buying PCs, like the spead can deal with Windows etc. do it. Won't bother me. (although when my frinds buy PCs i usually end up getting the call to help them set it up, repair it, reinstall windows etc).
But it does seem to me that Mac people have better experiences with their machines, they are more loyal and excited. I haven't met anyone (except MCSE certified techs) being happy about windows (and thats just cause it keeps them in business).
I realise that there are plenty of arguments out there that PCs are cheaper and not everyone can afford a Mac, but I don't think it is a very valid argument. I live in NY. You will find the nicest and most expensive cars in the poorest neighbourhoods because everyone can get financing. To me it is a lack of consumer education. People will use something just because everyone else does. That is just the way of things.
Now please, PC users stop saying that we/I am affected by the Jobs RDF or oherwise a mindless disciple.
As you will content that I will argue you are just as affected by mindless PC marketing claiming that PCs are cheaper. In high end machines PCs are more expensive, compared feature to feature. Yes you can get a cheap PC, but i don;t know anyone who bought a PC for less than $600 and those that did spent another $2-300 upgrading the cheap box.(i wont even get into the speed argument because yes i belive that machines out there are faster than my 1GHZ PB, but that doesn't matter to me)
So lets just agree that on this particular BB we love macs and will bash PCs and if there is windows or Intel BB out there, we wont come harass you.
And lets stop the derogative name calling, it really is kinda childish.
I agree with you 100%.
Only poeple who really love pc's are Tech Support People and Network Admisitrators. I speak from first-hand experience with that. My office has Macs and PCs. When the network goes down, not only does the tech not understand why he has to do nothing with the Mac, but he is actually snobbish about it all.
I come from a long line of PC experience, and have been bitten only a year ago by the Mac bug. I feel free, and have a more satisfying computer using experience. It's like taking a murky film off of your eyes and seeing the world anew. No kidding.
I have met many Mac users that make me ill, just at their attitudes. For some reason some people adopt this snide attitude, and it may be an offshoot of just simple impatience at being a target from the PC windows world.
The only thing in my experience PC's can do better than Macs and it is the only proven thing, is play games. And if you want that performance you need the fastest VIDEO CARDS too, and they cost mucho bucks. The price difference is a weak argument.
PB 17' owner, and have only one word for all of you who don't have the pleasure. (WOW).
If you are PC user, great for you, but why are you on this board, raising all h***? Is there something you are affraid of? I have been on PC boards just looking for Mac users defacing the PC. You know what? I have yet to find one.
Do you like apples now?
Well, how about them apples?
Cheers!
Now piss off.
"You'll see us get back into the lower-end, entry-level PC side" says Waite.
I didn't know Gateway was anything but a PC pimp! Apparently they think they have an image as a high end workstation supplier. I am sorry, but the Gateway "COW" theme is much worse than Apple's terrible "fruit" theme.
I just don't understand why anyone is going to buy a TV, a stereo reciever, a DVD player or a car radio that says "Gateway" on it. This Waite clown says that there is no money in PC's. Well, someone needs to let him know that there is no money in any of the other electronics market segments either. Gateway is going to tank hard. I just hope that when they do, Apple doesn't hire this Waite clown (Remember what happened when Apple brought in all those Compaq people in the 90's??)
Er, don't get a cow, or a farmer in the Dell.
IBM is probably the only PC I can honestly endorse, but then again, they cost as much as Apples, so, s**** that, they only run Windows. (Unless you like Red Hat).... then again, my Mac does that too.... so why oh why does anyone want to have a cow?
They are being lead by the nose.
Duh.
Finally someone doing an integrated entertainment approach well! I've been looking for a good way to integrate my sound system computer and tv - but have been cursed by all the parts being made by different companies. The aesthetic of your TV card remote, sure won't match the pc box, which wont match the amp, which won't match the monitor... and the form factor is a factor. While I'm not sure about this mediacenter software, I'd be content to by a gateway package if the sound lived up to my audiophile ears.
As for macs - sure the new g5 has digital sound out (usefull!!) but anyone know of a mac compatible tv card?... and it's still not going to match my amp. :)
You know, you can control your TIVO with your mac don't you?
If you are an audio/vidiophile then there isn't a machine on the planet that will integrate enough to satisfy your discerning ears and eyes.
I'm an amateur videophile and have a pretty decent setup and would not think of integrating my PB 17" except to control my TIVO with a widget from Konfabulator.com (PLUG).
It's wireless wifi baby!
Effe the Gateway, Dell, PEEsee of s***.
As one of my favorite bands once said, "You gotta keep'me seperated"!....
OR
Network Headlines
Most Popular
MacNN Sponsor
Recent Reviews
Logitech FabricSkin Keyboard Folio for iPad
Since the fourth-generation iPad didn't evolve much over its predecessor, the market for iPad accessories has remained somewhat static ...
Huawei Ascend Mate
The Huawei Ascend Mate is a phone that fits the screen-size gap between the 4 to 5-inch smartphone and the seven-inch or more tablet, ...
MaxUpgrades MaxConnect for 2006-2008 Mac Pro
Nobody outside of Cupertino's privileged bunch knows the future of the Mac Pro line for sure. Despite Apple's reluctance to tell us wh ...
Most Commented
Popular News
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Joined: Jul 2001
nice try
Actually, the PB17" has a resolution of 1440x900,
it comes standard with a Super drive.
Does it have iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto,iDVD?
NO!
It looks like a frozen dinner tray from the 50's too.
does it have a DVI out, is it Gigabit ethernet, a 32bit digital audio built in, I think not.
It's not even a slot load drive!
It's old news.