The Price / Performance ratio of the Dual 2.0 versus the Dual 3.06 Xeon look pretty good, but what about price / performace of the single 1.6 versus a lower-end Pentium or Athlon? The low-end Mac is 2K; I bet a similar config/performance PC comes in slightly over 1K. There's not that much disparity in price between low and high end Macs, but there is in PC's. That means Apple still isn't very competitive in the more mainstream computer arena. I doubt they'll sell that many low-end G5's. I hope they aren't counting on it.

If everything Jobs said is true, the future is looking good indeed. Long live Apple!

I just watched the video on the G5 available from the Apple site. Very interesting. Of note - they demo Pixar's Renderman, starting it from an icon that looks much thos of Office v.X on the dock. Well, Renderman is available only for Unix workstations, Linux and NT on the Pixar site! It looks like this is the first news of an upcoming release for OSX. Either that or Apple is showing pretty useless demos if the software is completely unavailable!

Hey - I'm not troll-talking about the Apple faithful... but it would make a good joke.

The 9 fans is because they've segregated the airflow channels in the case. The G5's still produce a lot of heat, but don't take the fan count to indicate how much heat they produce. Take the fan count to indicate how fancy the case design is.

To echo a rumors site, Apple will be rolling out G5 everything - including laptops - as quickly as they possibly can. I bet G5 laptops aren't that far off. Neither are new iMacs. The question is what will they do with the iBooks that still use G3's?

The benchmark is fake.

One of the videos showed a Pixar guy saying renderman tests showed the G5 was the fastest (obviously not publicly available yet, but hey - just how far is it from a Unix workstation app to a Mac OSX Unix workstation app?). Are they going to replace that Intel farm they bought a year ago now?

Friggin' Moley. Steve must have been holding this in for months like a constipated dehydrated nomad. Man, I bet he couldn't wait to let this out today and breathe life back into our machines.

Finally.

No floppy drive ??????????

That's it, I'm bying a PC (someone had to say it before the trolls did...)

And they taketh away! : (

Its ok, and nice. But we lost our second optical drive bay, the two additional IDE drive slots that DV producers DESPERATELY NEED.

Leave it to Apple to give us something pretty damn good and s**** us over at the same time. *sigh*

When will they ever learn?

At least we finally have the dvdr drive standard across the platform.

Lack of internal drive bays, perhaps a bit disappointing (course, with FW800, not that big of a deal, but that is an additional expense).

Exterior looks-wise, perhaps a bit on the ugly side, though it depends entirely on your opinion of industrial chic.

As far as everything else goes: Rock. I don't remember any of the rumor sites claiming that PCI-X or Serial ATA would ship in a box at this point, but here they are. Plus we've finally got our USB2.0, and an optical out (and in! how cool is that?) to shut up (er, satisfy) the surround sound crowd.

And after all those years of poo-pooing Apple's speed demos, it's good to see five different hard-core real world apps, plus SPEC tests, graphed on Apple's site. Heck, with the Radeon 9800 (which is a BTO option--I was disappointed that it wasn't mentioned in the annoucnement), it looks like it might even kick some serious gaming butt.

All that, and they've stated flat out that we'll see over 3Ghz within a year (maybe much sooner--who knows). This is the turning point for Apple.

It may not change things overnight, but in a matter of months any Mac user with the cash for it is going to be able to stand there proudly with the big boys, and we're going to have the features MS is bragging about for Longhorn a year and a half before that's even scheduled to ship. We are relevant again.

Oh, and about the G3 iBooks, IBM is supposed to have some very fast G3s in the pipeline, so that may not be an issue. Besides, even on consumer PC laptops, the bottom end rarely has even a half-decent processor, so a 1Ghz+ G3 isn't all that bad.

Now I just have to figure out where to come up with $3K within 2 months, or wait for price drops with the rev. 2s.

Now that FW800 is there as standard, the additional IDE drive slots aren't as critical. You've got up to 500Gb of ultra fast internal drives (or a rather spiffy 2x250Gb RAID) and up to 63 x FW800 drives at a pretty reasonable speed for storage (and those can be RAID'ed too)

I was starting to get discouraged with the falling 2% market share in spite of having the best and most reliable personal computer OS in the world.

Apple is doing what had to be done and I am breathing a sigh of relief. Apple simply MUST increase market share with more business penetration. It's killing the Mac fans having to fight corporate America every single day to keep themselves free of the second rate Windows experience.

It is not that we dislike Windows, we actually abhor the platform!!! It is like moving from a plush condominium to a metal storage building. We just cannot bear the step backwards to using a PC. So a big clap of approval to Apple today.

Anyone know if the KB/Mouse are the Pro versions or the low-ends now shipping with the revamped eMacs?

I too was a little concerned about accessing the innards; here I thought they'd gone back to 4 screws. But noo, Apple makes it that much better with a great little latch at the rear: flip the latch, panel is released.
Brilliant. Kudos Apple

Frank

still to expensive...

Why only 8 gig Memory? Is it a function of DIMM slots or a limitation of the chip? 64bit Intel/AMD chips support some unGodly amount of addressable memory, something makes me want to say in the terabyte range (limited only by the number DIMM slots)

ok, well, I am the devil's advocate, but while these seem like really really cool machines, I mean, we finally have a decent HW architecture, I do have a few gripes, but I will try to analyze & be constructive about it, so please no flaming, I would love to hear constructive comments, opinions, thanks :-)

-> a second open 5 1/4 bay would have been nice (gotta install my Syquest 44 ... ;-P ... just kidding, but seriously though, ...)

-> BTO & architecture, ok, my biggest gripe about apple: It seems that from the design & the very few pics they show, that there are 2 or three MoBos, which seem rather close in design: single-proc-PCI, single-proc-PCI-X, dual-proc-PCI-X. It MAY make sense to have that to keep the final prices down, but it also seems that the proc is on a completely independent module, so why not offer a dual PCI-X BTO, with 1.6, 1.8, or 2.0 modules? Now the next one may have needed a different board design, but why not have the option of getting one dual-proc capable board, get only one CPU because you don't have the $$$, and when you do, get an additional CPU module?

Please comment CONSTRUCTIVELY... thanks :-)

Alex.

In theory most 64 bit machines could access outrageous amounts of memory.. well the chips can. It isn't 2 to the 64th power though since most 64bit machines don't use 64bit addresses.

So there's lots of techie details here.. but here's the end result. The motherboard currently limits these to 8GB.. the memory controller chip limits it to 16GB which is still *freakin' huge*. The processor itself is limited to about 2 to the 42 or.. 2 terabytes of RAM.. but you'd need to jimmy up a new memory controller for that.

At least that's how I understand it from the apple tech pages..

Is it just the stills I've seen, or is there once again only 1 bay with a tray? I like having two DVD drives: one to play, one to burn. Other than that, I like the new design. I agree 100% that an IBM built chip and that case mixed with a GUI LINUX OS could be enough to make IT people notice.

That sounds like a pretty neat idea Frank.

The ability to pop in another processor would be a great feature.

I say keep the default 2 chip design and add connectors for 2 more processors! Quad G5's! Which would be like 8 chips with the upcoming 3ghz model.

Wow, these are fantastic times we live in!

-GB

Drive I/O *does* have it's own direct channel to the ASIC.

To quote from the literature:
The Power Mac G5 can hold two internal Serial ATA drives that support 1.5-Gbps throughput per channel (equivalent to a 150 MBps data rate). Designed to meet the demands of digital video editing, 3D modeling and other data-intensive applications, Serial ATA is the next-generation industry-standard storage interface that replaces the typical (a.k.a. Parallel) ATA interface. Since each Serial ATA drive is on an independent bus, there’s no competition for bandwidth as with Parallel ATA.

"Its ok, and nice. But we lost our second optical drive bay, the two additional IDE drive slots that DV producers DESPERATELY NEED."

How so?

All that stuff can be daisied on the plentiful Firewire ports, and will in fact be FASTER that way than if they were internal (parallel) ATA drives. My external FW ide-based disk is WAY more reponsive that the internal (parallel) ATA drive.

Besides -- Steve said there's room internally in the G5 for *two* drives. He said 500GB but that's because he meant two 250GB drives ... the largest serial ATA drives I know of ... FOR NOW.

So you have HALF A TERABYTE internally, virtually unlimited FW expansion, and mega bandwidth. And yet you find a way to complain. Wow.

would someone mind telling me why these retired bakeoffs involve low-end apps? Okay, Mathematica was okay-ish...but where on eart h was Shake, Maya or FCP in these tests? Im certainly not going to buy a G5 because my 800MP is doing photoshop too slow. But if i'd knew that these G5s kick AMD/Intel-arse when it comes to AE, Shake, Maya, (FCP...), C4D, Combustion etc...now that would make sense to show a bakeoff with these.

Also, i'm still dissapointed no highend graphic cards like WildCat, Elsa etc. are available for macusers.
Oh well. All in all...im ordering at least one G5 anyway.

More Steve Jobs lies. Back to his old tricks.

All of the benchmarks used were compiled to favor Apple computers. The so-called Photoshop bake-off conveniently only used actions that would be only be used by Mac artists. The "fast" Dell computer used for comparison was never shown to the public and the screen displays looked suspiciously like a 50mghz 486. And I read later today that the entire Pixar render farm was not available and off-line during the exact period that Steve was supposedly demoing the Gee-5.

Mac Idiots! You are all fools!

If the price of the low end is too high for your budget. Start setting aside a little each week and wait for newer models to come out. As new models come out the price on the earlier one comes down. When it reaches a price level you're comfortable with take all you've saved and buy it. If you haven't saved enough consider buying a refurbished unit from Small Dog Electronics.

What a horrible pain. Forced to buy more outboard devices, ick! Give me a Mac that has the ability to keep the workspace clean and efficient with everything built in!

This ain't the Mac for most people. Its a transitional product. If you are serious about DV, wait till MWSF when they refine the product and bring back what the consumers need.

Also Apple has screwed us Mac Users over SO MUCH in the past its really really hard to trust them.

Apple is a evil unreliable company.

Steve Jobs boyfriend is Mr. Hankey from the SouthPark Cartoon cause Steve likes suckin on filthy balls of POOO....

Poo? Poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo, poo!

Mac Users are Losers!

What Apple really needs to do is allow for a continuous upgrade path for its customers. Sure, we can add ram, pci cards and swap out hard drives, but when the processor and MB get slow we need to buy a new machine. I would upgrade all the time if I could MB/CPU combos that fit right into my old enclosures. Instead, I upgrade every 3 - 5 years. I still have some really old Macs that were built like brick s*** houses but unfortunately the hardware is old. The cases and power supplies are in top shape. Drives are cheap these days as is ram. Let us go to the Apple store and buy a G5/Hypertransport MB package for a decent price and watch the sales grow. The number one gripe I hear from wintellers is that the mac is not upgradeable. If it was they would buy (so they say).

Don't be mean to poor Mr. Hankey. He can't help the fact that his boyfriend Steve Jobs is a big degenerate.

BTW, all those graphics they used of the product must have been photoshopped on these new computers because they look terribly fake.

Whatsamatter Steve, you fired to many people and now no one wants to make you any decent looking pictures?

Thought so.

Stop being a worthless jerk. REPENT of your wicked ways. You are on the road to h*** for the way you treat Apple Employees and Mac users.

Steve Sucks, bring back Amelio!

OK, I'm as thrilled with the technology parts of the announcements as anyone, but as usual, the marketing of Apple's products seems to just miss the mark.

One issue is that the previous price/product gap in the Apple lineup was the lack of a low-end tower system that offered PCI slots and upgradable AGP video and CPU - now that gap has grown wider with the increase in the base model G5 system! How about offering a G4 system at a reduced base model price point now - perhaps a single 1.4 Gz G4/256MB/40GB/combo/Ge4MX at $1,199, dual G4 at $1,599 to fill in the price/product range...?

Also, as another person posted, the specs for the high-end G5 system are indeed impressive, but what about the other two models? And why does Apple feel the need to make such artificial "fast, faster, fastest" model specs by deliberately stiffling performance on some models? How about three models that share the exact same system board architecture (the current high-end one) with three CPU options: single 1.6, single 2.0, double 2.0...?

How come people are defending the only 2 3.5" bays. They put Serial ATA in there, and then you can only use it with two drives? Big freakin' deal. Let me put four or five in there so I don't have a stack of freakin' firewire drives on top of my desk or my Mac.

Here's the important question. What the h*** was in those boxes delivered to the Apple stores with "Do not open until June 23rd" on the side????? I thought the new G5s (and the new Powerbooks) were going to be shipped today.

Maybe iSight?

I fail to see the relevance of comparisons to wintel machines. Who cares?! The pro crowd that this machine is aimed at is using the Mac because of the OS, GUI, and PRO software. Show me render times in FCP4! What is my encoding time going to look like? In these areas we will be able to see if this machine is up to the job. And if it kicks butt like Stevie boy says it will, he won't be able to keep them on the shelves.

"How come people are defending the only 2 3.5" bays. They put Serial ATA in there, and then you can only use it with two drives? Big freakin' deal. Let me put four or five in there so I don't have a stack of freakin' firewire drives on top of my desk or my Mac."

Perhaps because most people don't need more than two internal drives. Many video editors like external drives anyway, so they can take their footage anywhere they like. At least the ones I've talked to do.

Sure there's a small minority that need more than 2 drives, but I'll bet the vast majority of those complaining are fabricating the issue.

I am a Mac guy with PC roots and have to work on both for my freinds and well guys come over with thier wintel boxs and see my old G4 450 and think its great and with this new G5 i have ton of PC geeks ready to toss the PC for a G5 in a heart beat and they have the cash jsut waiting on supply now

If you check out the Apple Store they have introduced a new low-end G4 Powermac!!! The single G4/1.25Ghz is $1299 and the dual is $1599. Everyone happy now???

One other note: All the new G4 configurations boot into OS 9. Seems like someone's been working on OS 9 combatibility on machines that previously didn't support it....

The low-end is completely overpriced. If you add in the memory and harddrive to the lowend to reach the specs of the mid-range, you're only $150 from the mid-range. And that model gives you 8GB max RAM due to 8 slots (the only reason for the 4GB max on the low-end, only 4 slots, 1GB per slot), faster bus (900 vs 800), faster processor (1.8 vs 1.6), PCI-X, and who knows what else.

I mean, I like the computer specs, and the mid and high range seem fine, but the price vs. features on the low-end just do not even come close to adding up to a value. Maybe at 1799 or even 1699 (hey, how about 699, or 599, or, oh, sorry, I was thinking of the headless G3 iMac).

"I am a Mac guy with PC roots and have to work on both for my freinds and well guys come over with thier wintel boxs and see my old G4 450 and think its great and with this new G5 i have ton of PC geeks ready to toss the PC for a G5 in a heart beat and they have the cash jsut waiting on supply now"

They had better be VERY careful about switching. Apple is an Evil Scorpion ready to strike at a moments notice. Apple loves to harm their new and returning clients. Its just a really bad character flaw that has always existed in the company because of the incompetant CEO that runs that company.

Be careful. There are very few valid reasons to switch to a Mac.

"still to (sic) expensive"

Oh give me a f****** break, will ya? We all saw the real-world app tests. Even the bottom of the line G5 tower should be able to comfortably outperform a 3.06GHz single-proc PC by some considerable margin. Add in the obvious hardware advantages like FW800, 1000baseT etc, then add in the software advantages, then factor in the OS advantage, and $2000 looks like a freakin' STEAL to me.

You just need to find a job that pays more than $6/hour, dude. Maybe you should consider developing some skills that will make that G5 earn its keep, hmmm?

I'm a die-hard mac fan, but that thing looks like a shiny terd. It looks like an IKEA waste basket.

I've been using Macs since my first 512K, dual floppy unit back in early 1985. How could anyone actually COMPLAIN about today's announcements!?!?! Panther. iChat AV. The new QuickTime Codec. New Dev tools! The G5... Incredible!

The announcements today were pretty damn mind-blowing! The only disapointment was the lack of a G5 PowerBook, but judging from the size of the heat sinks and complexity of the G5's cooling system, we'll ALL have to wait a bit.

I can't wait to see a G5 in the flesh. The case with the perf. aluminum are stunning! Yes, a second optical drive and a few more HD bays might have been nice, but with FireWire 800, Apple can make and market ONE box for all, with more than enough external expansion possibilities available. Seriously, how many people will actually USE 2 internal hard drives?

The dual 2GHZ unit will make me seriously reconsider my using a PowerBook as my sole computer. I can't wait to see how VectorWorks runs on one of these monsters!

...on complaining about the new systems, the older systems have been HEAVILY discounted. You can pick up a dual 1.25GHz for around $1600 now, or a single GHz for about $1300. That's almost cheap enough just to buy on impulse!

I look forward to adding the G5 to my computer farm:
(3 P4 - 1.6/1.7 - 2 Linux, 1 WinXP -- P2Pro-200 WinNT -- 1 Sun Sparc Workstation -- Dell Inspiron 8500 portable --).

I have used a Mac a long time ago (client wanted me to use a Mac portable), but mostly I am a PC guy.

Personally, I don't try doing too much comparison about spec vs. spec, it really depends on the applications that you are running.

I look forward to adding the G5 to my computer farm:
- 2 P4-1.6 Linux machines
- 1 P4-1.7 Windows XP
- 1 P2Pro/200 Windows NT
- 1 Dell Inspiron 8500 portable (XP, 2.0)
- 1 Sun Sparc Workstation

I have used a Mac a long time ago (client wanted me to use a Mac portable), but mostly I am a PC guy.

Personally, I don't try doing too much comparison about spec vs. spec, it really depends on the applications that you are running. The plain facts are this is a fantastic computer with a good growth path.

I love the fact that the operating system uses a Unix kernel -- just wish Microsoft would have done the same thing.

I would love it even more if IBM started producing Mac based computers now as well.... this would help them expand the acceptance of them in business (especially financial institutions).

"The benchmark is fake."

Which one? Better tell Veritest, since they ran the benchmarks, not Apple.

Please enlighten us, oh Wise One(tm).

" The so-called Photoshop bake-off conveniently only used actions that would be only be used by Mac artists."

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

"PC artists" never use motion blur, sharpen, sharpen edges, blends, rotations, blurs...?

Or are they just actions that you don't know how to use?

From Apple's website... This new connector works only with the DVI port on each of the graphics cards designed for the Power Mac G5. It allows you to preview your wok by connecting to S-video and composite devices — like TVs, VCRs and overhead projectors — with S-video or RCA (composite) connectors.


Preview your WOK?

guys, it's just machined aluminum. if you want a monster case which holds 40 IDE disks and 15 optical drives, visit your local metalshop and spec it out.

personally, i love the new case. its very tight, very modern.

For those "whining" that $1999 is too much to charge for a "low end" Power Mac, I think Apple agrees with you. That's why Apple just revised the Power Mac G4 line up. The BRAND NEW single G4 1.25 MHz PowerMac is priced at $1299. That's the real LOW END (not counting the $799 eMac, of course). Like the good ol' CRT iMac G3, I'll bet that model will stick around for a while, at least until a G5 model can be sold near that price point. It's also serving as the Mac OS 9 -bootable system. Apple may be arrogant sometimes, but they are definitely not dumb.

Yep, tyhanks for mentioning this here. I think a couple of narrow minded and badly educated people needed it seriously.

I guess this is also Apple's response to the CoreCrib and the switchers. You can get a dual 1.25GHz G$ for 1299. Wow! Thast is h*** of a sweet deal. You get a full-blown tower with lots of CPU for very little cash. Now that's a steal! Thanks Apple.

wow and only 3 grand, for those magic beans?

So I read that a 3.something single pro from Intel is faster and cheaper,.... damn! Why OSX is not running on those platforms! ;o)

Wow, those intel boxes you have, you need to get a better browser, one with a spell checker inside. By the way, the 3.2 GHz P4s are only like 6% faster than the 3.0GHz P4s.

As for the lowend, you missed the point. I'm not complaining about the low-end being the 'low-end' mac but being $2000. I'm complaining that for a measly $150 more, you can get a much, much, much, much better computer at the mid range. Therefore, the low-end model (the 1.6GHz) is WAAAAY overpriced (or the mid-range is way underpriced) compared to its features and specs and that of the mid-range model. Read the post again and try to understand the point, not just that its some type of 'whining'. (If they were the exact same configs except for the processor, then that would be one thing, but they're not. The low-end lacks so much of the mid and high end it isn't funny, yet once you increase the low-end's memory and HD to that of the highend, there's only a $150 difference. How does that make sense to anyone?????)

guess this is also Apple's response to the CoreCrib and the switchers. You can get a dual 1.25GHz G$ for 1299. Wow! Thast is h*** of a sweet deal. You get a full-blown tower with lots of CPU for very little cash. Now that's a steal! Thanks Apple.

Yo, the low end is a single. Oh, and look, the difference between the low and mid range is $300 for the exact same computer, except one's got two processor's in them. Now that's what I call decent pricing.

And, finally, Apple's shown they know how to get computer's off the shelves when a new model is expected. Low price point, OS 9 booting. There's a lot of folks out there who probably were saying to themselves "I'm just going to wait for a G5" who now are saying "Hey, $1300 for an OS 9 box, get me 4 to upgrade the old OS 9 software machines, and I'll still have money for the G5s"; Its just what those "OS 9 forever, OS X Sucks! Its too slow!" people want.

Though the G5 PowerMac has a pretty solid new system architecture, the chip itself is not going to reach Intel's current clock speed for another 12 months -- and lord only knows where Moore's Intel will be then. Obviously this is bad for marketing purposes as the layman sees the G5s as obselete-on-arrival. But performance-wise, is Apple s******* us into another year of widening gaps between the PC world and the Mac world by claiming that we can expect, at best, a 1ghz improvement over the next 12 months? Can we realistically expect that to be enough to compete with PC manufacturers?

Buy this machine now as we will. We save our pennies and sleep on the floor so we can have best hardware first. Then we write killer app and let Wintel users wash our new cars.

Oh 1GHz per year is more than enough.

Here's the proof: Intel is just now coming with 3.2GHz and the dual 2GHz G5 kicks that already. Now, in a year we will have 3GHz G5s and Intel will - according to Moore's law - have 5.3GHz (3.2GHz x 2 x 12/18). Now if our dual 2GHz kicks a 3.2GHz Intel's butt (ratio 1.25) I suppose our dual 3GHz will kick a 5.3GHz Intel as well (ratio 1.13).

So there. Intel is canned. Now we are competing with another class of computers. Who cares about Intel... LOL :p

More fanaticism...

According to Steve, the G5 beats the c*** out of Intel. Of course, he has been saying any chip that Mac uses beat the c*** out of Intel since day 1. Is he correct then or now? Or is he always right? I like and use OS X every day but I don't belive Steve, who's a brilliant marketer, for a second.

A few sites have already come out denouncing Apple's numbers. I bet more will come out in the next few days and after the system is shipped. In addition, Steve is comparing a system that will ship in three months versus a system that is shipping three months ago. If Intel were to compare their newest chip to be announced in three weeks vs the G4 would you call that fair?

Second, the megahertz myth - the only people that believes it is Mac users. PC users already know that AMD for raw number crunching is way more powerful than P4s. PC users know that the early P4s was slower than P3s at the same speed. The Pentium-M (as used in the Centrino chipset) is faster than P4 at the same clockspeed. A 800 FSB 2.4 ghz P4 is much faster than a 3ghz P4. The list goes on. So, spare me the idiotic statement of "By the way, the 3.2 GHz P4s are only like 6% faster than the 3.0GHz P4s. " *** Tell that to a knowledgeable user and you further propagate the myth that all Mac users are ignorant fanatics. ***

As I have said before, all I am glad is the 10.3 offer excellent set of features improvements and that G5 kicks the butt of G4. That should be all that matters to us Mac users.

Will the G-5 processor become available on the 17" Powerbook.

I'm a happy user of both Wintel and Mac. I never got why people get happy when one is faster then the other? Did your old G4 not make you happy? Now that there is a G5 you can finally face the world? I think it's fabulous, truly is. But until now, Mac fans cried foul when speed was pointed out. I've read today that Apple has lied about the results. "http://www.haxial.com/spls-soapbox/apple-powermac-G5/" this posted by a Mac user. But if the Mac is faster, for how long? Intel's Prescott will be out soon, as AMD's 64 bit CPU. And truth be told, they have more money and more research. So will all the Mac users cry faul again when Wintel Machines fly by them? It's a computer, you are no better a human by using one or the other. But you are a fool to bash either one. I will go on using both as long as I have a need to. Let's not turn this into "My pickum up truck is better then yours!"

Is it me or does anyone else think these G5's might have the long term staying power of the Powersurge (73/75/76/85/86/95/96) machines? The first of these was introduced in August of 1995 - 8 years ago - and yet they are, with upgrades, very usable machines today. With the G5's, you have a very large step up in system performance from memory and I/O bandwidth compared with the prior G3/G4 systems.

FWIW

Is it me or does anyone else think these G5's might have the long term staying power of the Powersurge (73/75/76/85/86/95/96) machines? The first of these was introduced in August of 1995 - 8 years ago - and yet they are, with upgrades, very usable machines today. With the G5's, you have a very large step up in system performance from memory and I/O bandwidth compared with the prior G3/G4 systems.

FWIW

After having read many of the posts since last week's leak, I'm amazed at how malicious so many of MacNN's readers are--pc and mac users both. Know what? I'm really happy the G5 is out, and I'll probably buy one as soon as I have the money. But not because of some SPEC rate, not because I hate PCs, and not because it will rotate some half-gig photoshop file any quicker. I'm really not that concerned.
Instead, I'll buy one because my G4/400 is getting a little sluggish, because I think the case design is beautiful, because I like using a satisfying, intuitive interface that doesn't crash too often, and because I like the idea of supporting a company that prettly consistently brings innovative ideas to an otherwise bland computer world.
And I think most of the world's Apple users are thinking similarly. They are not, I'm sure, spouting to each other about how fast they can search DNA sequences, and calling each other "f****** moron" and "stupid idiot" and "ignorant fanatic." Please. If the most productive thing you do with your computer is spit 12 year-old playground insults, do you really need the speed?

-a

Thank you! That is the best comment i've read all week.

haven't you notice that if intel wants to oerpast the G5 it will do it.
noone can mest up with intel.
and i 'll bet that after few years not even IBM!!

haven't you notice that if intel wants to over-past the G5 it will do it.
noone can mest up with intel.
and i 'll bet that after few years not even IBM!!

http://www.macedition.com/soup/soup_20030629.php

WELL I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A PC BECAUSE OF THE COST OF THE IBM/APPLE PRICES.. MY QUESTION IS WHO IS GOING TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO UPGRADE ,AND WHO WILL MAKE THE MOST ROOM INSIDE FOR ALL THE EXTRAS.. I THANK THAT A COMPANY THAT WILL LET YOU UPGRADE WITH EASE WILL BE THE BETTER PRODUCT INLEUI OF GETTING A BASE MODEL AND AS MONEY COMES IN UPGRADDING AND STAYING UP WITH THE MARKET.. THAT IS MY CONCEREN IF THEY CAN SHOW ME A EASY WAY TO STAY WITH THE CURVE WITH PLENTY OF ROOM THEN THAT S THE NEXT COMPUTOR I WILL BUY.. I MEAN I WILL SPEND A LITTLE MORE TO START WITH TO GET WHAT I WONT.. THANKS VERY MUCH REMBER UPGRADEDABLE EASLY THAT THE ONE I WILL REPLACE MY 1.6 WITH

I WENT INTO A COMA FOR A MONTH A FEW YEARS AGO AND NOW MY CREDIT IS ZERO. I NEED TO BUY AN APPLE AND CAN
MAKE PAYMENT OF 100.- 150 A MONTH. I CAN SIGN A CONTRACT, THAT YOU CAAN TAKE THE MONEY ON THE FIRST OF EVERY MONTH WITH MY VISA DEBIT CARD. PLEASE CONTACT ME
TEL. 781-254-7422. I NEED IT FOR TOWN BUSINESS.
I AM A COMM. OF DISABILITY, COMM.OF FAIR HOUSING.
ELECTED 5 TERMS AS TOWN OF WEYMOUTH, PARK COMM. I
WOULD NEVER MISS A PAYMENT. I HAVE SPENT THOUSANDS
OF DOLLARS UPGRADING MY PC. IT IS 733. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME CONSIDERATION. COMM. GERRY A. NICKERSON
85 COLONELS LANE SUITE 23, E. WEYMOUTH MASS. 02189
ALSO CAN YOU SEND ME YOUR LATEST CATALOGUE WITH YOUR
BEST MODELS PCS

I've moved to pc because they are cheaper and faster.
xp pro is much faster more stable. I can build a nice pc for £200. I had to replace a power supply for a g4 it cost £100 for a re-furb. pc power supplies cost £5 new!