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http://www.macnn.com/articles/03/05/23/tech:.ms/

Tech: MS counter, Spam, Kazaa, MSWM...

updated 10:00 pm EDT, Fri May 23, 2003

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Tech news: Microsoft is quietly products to stream music samples to customers from its sites (e.g., CDnow.com, VirginMega.com and Borders.com).

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05/23, 10:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
FP!

Apple better get their butts into gear for their invasion into the Windows music market...

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05/23, 10:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
Let's do it!

I agree w/ the last guy. If Apple doesn't get the new version of iTunes for Windows out really soon, they're gonna find themselves invaded by others for the same market and they're going to lose it. Good news though: I quizzed some people and 99% of them said they preferred the flat rate model over the subscription model.

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05/23, 10:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yes, but...

Look at what M$ wants: a subscription based models. They keep saying "consumers will warm up to the idea" or "it's ahead of its time".. Maybe consumers just plain don't *want* to rent their music, but prefer to download it, like iTunes????

I certainly don't want to risk losing all my music if I stop paying a monthly fee. That's such c***, and M$ is so consumed by money they forget about what consumers really want. Anyone who thinks people will "warm up" to the subscription music plans is completely ignorant of consumer wants.

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05/23, 11:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
And don't forget about .

... unlimited downloads! The idiot MS guy says Apple's not even looking at that. As if Apple hadn't worked all angles of this before doing what they did. Please. So what if I can can download 100 petateragigabytes of music that will expire as soon as I don't make my monthly Microsoft music mortgage payment? I'd rather download the tunes I really want just one time each and then keep them forever.

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05/23, 11:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Renting

Renting music reminds me of the nightmarish Columbia House. What a negative experience!

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05/24, 12:14am | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Counter Attack

Bring it on b****!

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05/24, 12:25am | report spam | close Reply |
Nothing new here...

So, Apple comes out with an innovative product and now MS is scrambling to catch up. Nothing unusual about this. If we look back at the history of these two companies, eventually MS will have 97% of the music market even though their product is crappy and it allows hackers to steal your account numbers. Apple will have a small number of devotees that will keep the company just above red line and we have to hear all kinds of reports of how Apple is going tank because it has such a small music market share. Maybe for once the consumers will get wise and let Apple have its day again.

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05/24, 12:57am | report spam | close Reply |
You guys are so lame.

Microsoft has had this in the works way before Apple. Just like XP was to OS X and Longhorn is to 10.3. You get 10.3 later this year and we get Longhorn some time in 2005! Take that, b******!

You macdroids are so behind the time!

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05/24, 01:07am | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah we're lame.

^--Funny post--^

Just like the wysiwyg idea. MS had that way before even Xerox.

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05/24, 02:37am | report spam | close Reply |
complain to Amazon

... if the music samples don't play on your Macs. Believe me, they hear from a few thousand people that this doesn't work, they will rethink the WMP9 idea.

Tell them that since you can't listen to samples, you're going to buy your tunes from the iTunes Music Store. That should do the trick.

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05/24, 04:09am | report spam | close Reply |
Subscription Service

This simply again is proof of Microsoft's (and some of the music industry) idiocy. To make it short, subscription services will never take off. Never! This is not a question of DRM technology it is a question of consumer behaviour, but then again they've never really understood those.

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05/24, 04:15am | report spam | close Reply |
Right...

" ... if the music samples don't play on your Macs. Believe me, they hear from a few thousand people that this doesn't work, they will rethink the WMP9 idea. Tell them that since you can't listen to samples, you're going to buy your tunes from the iTunes Music Store. That should do the trick."

Right... I am sure Amazon did not think of this, you are genius! The music sample encoded in WMA9 plays back on any Mac with WMP installed, idiot. It is one thing to dislike Microsoft but another to be plain ignorant. - KL

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05/24, 08:33am | report spam | close Reply |
RE:Right...

Way to resort to the idiot tag KL. When Microsoft produces an acceptable version of WMP for Mac that will play things encoded in the v. 9 format, Mac users cannot hear such things (anything new created on WMP9 cannot be heard on the mac at all). The reader you're responding to is not ingnorant, despite your shallow accusations.

I registered for these forums just for this post.

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05/24, 09:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Relax

Relax everyone. We all knew this was going to happen. Anything Apple does that is successful is followed up by the entire (cowardly) industry. Subscription may be stupid, but most people will use M$ products because they are sheep. Fortunately, there will always be enough forward-thinking people who want quality to keep Apple going. And despite a strong FUD campaign, Apple is gaining respectability and admiration (enough to get all five music corps. to come on board). If Apple follows this up with educational ads on OS X (esp. after the 970s come out), installed base will climb to record levels.

So let M$ have their subscription music service, and let the sheep use it. Apple will still have the best computing experience and we know it. And M$ can't take that away.

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05/24, 09:58am | report spam | close Reply |
RIP CDNow

I was still using CDnow after it was bought by Amazon.

Now that the only sample streams theyre going to have will be Windows Media c***, I shall go elsewhere. Well... it USED to be a good service

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05/24, 10:14am | report spam | close Reply |
Only MS

That's right, only MS could come up with a product name like this:

Windows Media Digital Rights Management for Devices version 9

Woohoo! Can't wait to get my hands on WMDRMFD v9!

And did any of you read the article??? They say there's a huge number of portable digital devices that you can copy your music to (OK, 15, but that sounds high, right?). So what if you can't copy your music to another computer? Who's got two computers, anyway! And who cares if you can't stream them, or burn them to CD? If your harddrive fries, you just download them again.

And then, no one's looking at the beauty of a subscription service (its the future, and it is what everyone wants, the label executive and the MS guy said so!). Let's say you realize you don't want any of your music anymore. On the Mac, you'd have to find and delete all the files. With a subscription, just let it lapse. All the files become unplayable. And with wicked cheap PCs, you could just throw out the entire computer and buy another $400 emachines barn burner.

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05/24, 10:33am | report spam | close Reply |
The part I found amusing

was, "But Microsoft is betting that new security enhancements planned for later this year could make renting music, rather than owning it, more attractive to consumers."

Why would I want to rent a song, when I can own it and do pretty much what I please with it for .99 cents. The only way I would consider switching from the iTunes Music Service is if Microsoft throws in a free 36 month subscription to MSN for OS-X.

Just kidding..... about switching that is! Renting..... out of the question!

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05/24, 11:10am | report spam | close Reply |
a couple of thoughts...

1)...Microsoft could do more harm than good by turning the majority of Windows users off to the entire idea of buying music this way. Once people get burned by the Windows model, they will write off the entire concept. They won't realize that Apple has a better system (have they ever?) This could hurt potential Apple sales.

2)...by using a rental model, Microsoft doesn't have to adjust to the market and carry tunes that people really want. Since people pay in bulk, they will receive in bulk and have to accept what's offered to them. Apple, on the other hand, must sell the music one song at a time, and must adjust their wares to what the market demands. Microsoft's approach is easier (for MS) and less satisfying to the customer. It is also probably more attractive to the record industry, since it will be easier for them to withhold titles that they don't want included. Apple's system is more difficult, requires more attentiveness, and gives the customer exactly what they want. Again, no surprises here...

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05/24, 11:35am | report spam | close Reply |
MS Wins!

Subscription services WILL become successful- not because they're better, cheaper, whatever. But instead, because MS is supporting them. MS software is everywhere, and in order for a company to do well with the music industry, they will have to adapt to MS's "lead", just as so many companies have in the past. This is part of the problem with such a powerful monopoly like MS.

A few things could put a large kink in the process though:

1. ANYTHING which associates security with MS products is scary IMO. Just take a gander at the tech headlines every day- at least one story about security issues and MS products can be found. I think that many companies are re-thinking the MS option just because of this.

2. Jobs has STRONG ties to the music industry leaders. He may be able to pull some more strings here and there. And Apple already has the lead in the online music business- let's hope they keep a large share of it.

3. the iPod has been a HUGE success, both for Mac fans and PC fans. If people like their iPods, and they like the iTMS, then Apple's plan will succeed moreso than it has, especially when the PC version of iTMS comes out later this year. People will see how easy it is to download and listen to music on their computers and iPods, etc, and never have to worry about subscriptions running out.

But, again, in the end, MS will reign victorious, and the public will be left with mediocre products and services when they could have had the best!

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05/24, 12:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
I favor Apple, but...

I think MS is right. Look at all those who pay subscriptions for Cable TV, XM Radio, even DVD rentals. We pay subscription prices for phones, electricity, water, trash disposal. We buy a car that if not subscribed to gasoline would not be worth 10 cents. I'm writing this because I have paid a subscription to COX for internet access. Our lives are full of subscriptions. It's our economies way of controlling our wallets and what is in them. So, with that thought, I think MS will be correct in this one. It's no different really than subscribing to a radio service except you get to pick what you want to hear, not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have cable tv whatsoever because I cannot just subscribe to what I want, I have to take packages. I rather not have it at all if I can't have only what I want. I love Apple's version of purchasing music online for more reasons than one, but basically because I get what I want, and it's mine.

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05/24, 12:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
I favor Apple, but...

I think MS is right. Look at all those who pay subscriptions for Cable TV, XM Radio, even DVD rentals. We pay subscription prices for phones, electricity, water, trash disposal. We buy a car that if not subscribed to gasoline would not be worth 10 cents. I'm writing this because I have paid a subscription to COX for internet access. Our lives are full of subscriptions. It's our economies way of controlling our wallets and what is in them. So, with that thought, I think MS will be correct in this one. It's no different really than subscribing to a radio service except you get to pick what you want to hear, not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have cable tv whatsoever because I cannot just subscribe to what I want, I have to take packages. I rather not have it at all if I can't have only what I want. I love Apple's version of purchasing music online for more reasons than one, but basically because I get what I want, and it's mine.

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05/24, 12:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: I favor Apple, but...

You have a point, and perhaps MS will convince consumers (wrongly) that they should pay a subscription for music. But nearly all of those subscription services you mentioned are for "services." You don't rent products. DVD rentals are a bit different because a.) you can still own movies, but also b.) renting movies is a bit more attractive than music because lots of movies you don't want to watch more than once, whereas music you (generally) want to listen to more than once. Your gasoline example is flawed because we don't all pay the same amount for gas every month -- we pay only for what we use, even though it is consumed and we ultimately have to keep paying. TV (cable or otherwise) has never been seen by consumers like music -- either you get broadcast programming for free, or you pay for a SERVICE which gives you access to better quality product (in terms of picture/sound quality) as well as premium programming not supported by advertising. XM Radio is very similar, though I don't think this is popular enough to really consider yet. Internet access, high-speed or not, is also a SERVICE. It's all about access, not ownership.

However, the entire history of music has been about OWNERSHIP. Could the music industry eventually switch to become a service industry? It's entirely possible. Is it a good idea? Not likely. Unfortunately, I think some music execs see these same analogies that you do, but they also don't see that they're inaccurate analogies.

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05/24, 02:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Figures

You'd think they'd spend more time creating a better OS first. F*&^K MS.

Besides what moron would rent music and pay a subscription to rent. They can't stand it when Apple makes work what NO ONE ELSE ever has.

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05/24, 04:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Why we rent DVDs

The main reason we rent DVDs is because it is cheaper than buying them outright. Believe me, if I could own the DVD for the same price as the rental, I'd buy them. With music selling for 99 cents per track, there is no financial incentive to rent.

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05/24, 04:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Microwhat?

Who are these clowns!?

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05/24, 05:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
HOW ABOUT THIS???

I think that every Senator/Legislator who is a PUBLIC official should be FORCED to reveal their stock portfolio to the public. Let's see how many of those weasels who vote AGAINST an anti-spam bill actually own stock in Microsoft (hotmail) and AOL, the two biggest offenders of selling email addresses to spammers.

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05/25, 12:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Check out Germany

Most of my junk e-mail I receive is from Yahoo out of Germany; then Lycos, Eudora and finally Hotmail -Almost ALL FROM GERMANY! France is a close 2nd offender. The strange thing is that the titles are some strange jiberish along with the e-mail sender and then the message is in english! Yahoo really s**** me. But I recon my (Australian) government is just gonna sit back and see what the states are gonna do. This does sound good but what about receiving spam out of state? The G7 should look in on this!!

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05/25, 12:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Cash Cow

Renting the right to hear music from Morcrisoft is just another ploy from the Gates clan to suck up consumer money. I don't see any other objective to this than to simply transfer huge amounts from millions of consumers. Instead of having a consumer pay one time to listen to a song, they will have to pay every month until eternity. I don't sense any good faith on MS's part in the whole scam. iTMS has the right idea because once you "own" the right to listen to a song that right never expires. Isn't that nice with MS - if you don't pay your bill you "expire"?

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05/25, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
Great demo opportunity

What a great idea, renting music. I think Steve Jobs could do a great demo comparing the iTunes Music Store to this model. He would have a PC filled with hundreds of songs that were downloaded under the subscription service. Then let the service lapse. Then, on stage, try to play the songs. Ooops. Well, here are the iTMS downloads. We paid for them once, and they work without any monthly payments!

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05/25, 05:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
not being online

here is a good question for everyone? will the music rental work if you are not online? The reason i ask is what if you haven't paid the charge for a couple of months? how do they regulate that? What if I wanted to take the music with me on my laptop and I couldn't access the web? Just a thought...

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05/25, 05:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: not being online

How it works is that the system maintains a clock that tells the music when to "shut off" so to speak, and even if you have sporadic internet connections that clock gets updated when you connect to extend it another month or so. If you paid your bill but never connected to the web your music would expire. I read an article, I think it was this one, that said microsoft is trying to get portable music players to support these clocks so music on your MP3 player would turn off if it's not synced to the PC and updated.

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05/25, 06:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yahoo! spam

Hmmm... I've found Yahoo's bulk mail folder the best web email spam catcher. It puts spam directly into the bulk folder and catches almost all of it. Hotmail was the worst, so bad that I let my account expire, to h*** with that. I'm very happy with Yahoo's bulk mail folder.

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05/25, 10:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yahoo! spam

I have about 4 email accounts, and fortunately only one of them get spammed. I get absolutely no spam on Yahoo. My email.com account get's spammed, but that's because it's what I give out to everthing that requires an email address.

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05/26, 08:05am | report spam | close Reply |
Sue spammers

that sounds like it's just about time... I hope it'll wipe out the whole spam scene.

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05/27, 12:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
MS needs to rent a brain.

Just how long can MS spin doctors continue to change "brainwash" into "warm consumers to the idea"? Look at .Net, or whatever they're calling it today. They aren't interested in what you want, only what they can make you believe you want. From a consumer standpoint, there are things it makes sense to own, and things it makes sense to rent. From the MS perspective, money is made from selling, and more money is made from renting.

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07/26, 03:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
ibook and kazaa

can you download kazaa on an apple? and whats all the deal about subsrcibing to ms or mac, for 99 cents a song, i have 300 downloaded from kazaa and havent paid a cent

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Tech: MS counter, Spam, Kazaa, MSWM...

updated 10:00 pm EDT, Fri May 23, 2003

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FP!

Let's do it!

Yes, but...

And don't forget about .

Renting

RE: Counter Attack

Nothing new here...

You guys are so lame.

Yeah we're lame.

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RE:Right...

Relax

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a couple of thoughts...

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not being online

re: not being online

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