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MS Watch: Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn

updated 01:00 pm EDT, Fri May 16, 2003

Microsoft Watch's talks about the forthcoming improvements in the next release of Mac OS X codenamed "Panther" and how the OS compares to Windows XP and the forthcoming Longhorn upgrade due in 2005: " Apple has been careful not to underestimate Microsoft on the OS front. Indeed, even though Mac users have been fulsome in their praise of the features and speed of the current version, 10.2, of Mac OS X (a k a Jaguar), Apple insiders are well-aware of areas where XP is ahead of Mac OS X."

by MacNN Staff

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05/16, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
1st post!

Panther will smoke XP!

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05/16, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Panther

OSX will always rule! PC's are terrible beasts, no matter what OS.

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05/16, 01:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Macs Will Always Rule

PC's will someday die, it may take a while, but when the ignorant public uses MacOSX, there will be no looking back at Wind(bl)ows.

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05/16, 01:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
{'�'} Windows

Windows is ancient. There is still 3.1 code in there, geesh...

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05/16, 01:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
all right

let's get all the steam out of the way, M$ sucks, Windooze sucks, etc. Yawn.

To me, competition between OS is always good and allows OS to catch up with each other on features that it does not have yet.

Keep the rest clean folks.

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05/16, 01:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
FYI

OS X is BSD-based so that means it's code base predates Windows 3.1

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05/16, 01:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Vaporware

Some of the improvements they are announcing for Longhorn sound nice on paper, but in Microsoft fashion, they will likely not be nearly as revolutionary as they sound.

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05/16, 01:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:FYI

OSX is way more of a modern OS utilizing an updated developer language. Windows is full of "spagetti code".

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05/16, 01:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
New features

None of the features they mentioned at the bottom of that article look even remotely appealing to a home desktop enduser like myself. Ok, the "natural language" searching is neat, but if you can't find your files you need to learn some organizational skills.

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05/16, 01:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
well...

XP vs OS X has already been done to death on every single Mac bulletin boards. So let's not start that again. Hopefully, we won't to start a vaporware (i.e. not delivered products) debate comparing Panther (to be delivered in a few months) vs Longhorn (in 2 years)? Oy!

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05/16, 01:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
{'�'} Windows

Those folks down at MS are scrambling I'm sure! Based on how buggy and unreliable every other one of MS OS's have been, odds are very good that this next MS OS will be so bug laden, it really won't be usable till long after 2005. They should code name it 'Scramble Code'.

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05/16, 01:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
good article

The article's great for showing just how important competition is in the computer industry... Anyone at MS listening??? haha

I think it's great to see some features MS hopes to include that OS X already has and vice versa. Although creating a more advanced "search" capability for Windows kind of defeats the perpose of starting with an efficient file system - i.e. wouldn't need it if file system wasn't so confusing to begin with.

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05/16, 01:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
{'�'} Windows

Besides, no matter what OS a PC is using, it still contains generic components rendering it very unstable with soft/hardware. There have been countless times I have installed a program or piece of hardware only to find it not compatible with the OS. I beleive the MacOS platform will ALWAYS be the most reliable and stable systems.

For the sake of PC users, I hope their new OS comes with a big 'ol "Re-Install Windows" button. I can't belive how many times people are having to reinstall their OS. LOL, but the Mac is just so user friendly, I have a difficult time imagining any Windows version to be as intuitive and elegant as Mac OSX.

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05/16, 01:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
read

Apple has been careful not to underestimate Microsoft on the OS front. Indeed, even though Mac users have been fulsome in their praise of the features and speed of the current version, 10.2, of Mac OS X (a k a Jaguar), Apple insiders are well-aware of areas where XP is ahead of Mac OS X.

On the performance front, Apple is reportedly working to match XP's GUI responsiveness as well as launch, boot and log-in times. For features, Apple is burning the midnight oil to add capabilities that will rival Windows Terminal Services' access to multiple desktops, XP's ability to create profiles that travel with them among machines, and extensible help-system features that allow third-party developers to provide support and updates from within the OS. Add in such niceties as transparent, file system-level compression and encryption, and Apple has a sizeable task list in front of it.

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05/16, 01:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Great Point!

"...Windows kind of defeats the perpose of starting with an efficient file system - i.e. wouldn't need it if file system wasn't so confusing to begin with."

Very well put!

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05/16, 01:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple should work

hard to ensure that OS X is as insecure as Windows and has compatibility with as many worms, viruses, trojans, and bugs as Windows XP. That's one area where OS X is waaay behind windows.

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05/16, 01:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
No need to...

explain further. This statement "no matter what OS a PC is using, it still contains generic components rendering it very unstable with soft/hardware" speaks for itself on your understanding of how things work.

Folks, move on and don't feed the trolls e.g. {'�'} Windows....

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05/16, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:New Features

When you have a couple terabytes on a server with a lot of people sharing files, a natural language search will be helpful....No naming standard in the world will help when you have that much data and that many people working on it. Especially when locating a file that was created 5 years ago.

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05/16, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:FYI

Of course. That's competive developing.

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05/16, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:Apple should work

Hahaha, no kidding!

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05/16, 01:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:No need to...

Oh really. Does a Phd in computer science mean anything?

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05/16, 01:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
No need to...

Obviously not to you. I am a professor in CS and would fail you in an instant for your ignorance.

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05/16, 01:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
No need to...

Well, glad I didn't take your class. You sound like a real winner. Some teachers are so lame. I would of dropped your class after hearing you speak like that. I feel bad for your students. Poor souls.

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05/16, 01:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm happy with Jaguar

Give me about 50% speed improvments and I could care less about any extra "features". That's what I hate most about XP.

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05/16, 01:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Aero

What I find so interesting, is how similar in concept aero is to aqua, and yet how much more system resources it requires.

Aero instantly make 99% of the PCs out there old. I mean AGP 8x with 128MB of RAM !

As for the WinFS (Windows Future Storage), I would not entrust it any data until v2.0.

Hopefully for MS, they will have Panther to look at to find some direction on how to use their UI's newfound capabilities.

As for Win32 APIs, they suck and will remain that way. I mean, when a single function has 10 different uses depending on the parameters, and each parameter has multiple meaning.

Programming in Win32 is just plain discusting.

Oh well, I'll stop the rant there.

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05/16, 02:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
aero

that AGP *X with 128 is the high end of 2 tiers microsoft is talking about, its easy to update most any pc to that graphics card, no big deal. They made that requirement for high end systems and by the time the O/S is offically out, it should be a standard on many new machines, 64mb cards are common now, in one year, 128 should be commmon, I already have a 128MB AGP GeForce 4200TI, and I'm looking to upgrade to something faster. A year from now my current video card will be used in budget pc's and they'll have much faster video solutions for people wanting high end cards.

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05/16, 02:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
areo

The minimum to get aqua style compositing (tier 2) is twice that of aqua (AGP 8x and 64MB of GPU RAM.) Only gamers update their GPU as often as you do.

I also trust that the CPU demands for Longhorn will match the GPU demands, and make most 2003 computers unfit.

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05/16, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
2005

This is for release 2005 (MS will be lucky if they meet their release dateline). You think 128MB won't be the standard by then? Think ahead a little.

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05/16, 02:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
a g*** free OS?

Is it possible for Apple to Develop and operating system that can prevent minorities from using it, especially Asians?

It amazes me that the sand niggers have not already invented this.

White Power!

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05/16, 02:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well it would be nice if.

...Apple could produce a browser that was as fast & compatible on my Ti as IE is on my Celeron PC where I now do almost all my web browsing - and offer similar launch, interface & printing speed - then I could actually sell my PC & work exclusively with my mac as I have done for the 10 yrs prior... I feel now having 'gone both ways' that Apple has had me largely duped... Oh my PC isn't as pretty but it is virtually twice as fast with XP as X on my Ti! That spinning cursor is so slow sometimes I just give up...

Funny you'd think they could do it before the 3rd 'paid' iteration of the OS? Will they?

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05/16, 02:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

"Well, glad I didn't take your class. You sound like a real winner. Some teachers are so lame. I would of dropped your class after hearing you speak like that. I feel bad for your students. Poor souls."
****
I wish you could have taken my class so you can learn something. Some teachers may be lame but I can tell you no one wants a smartass student who thinks he already knows everything has nothing else to learn. Hate to break the bubble to you but the working world is like that too. You won't go far with that attitude.

BTW, it is "I would have dropped" not "I would of dropped".

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05/16, 02:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
burn

burn, buddy the prof has just taken you too school, i would yield

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05/16, 02:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

"As for the WinFS (Windows Future Storage), I would not entrust it any data until v2.0"
****
Uh, right. So when FAT32 came out to replace Win16, you would have waited until they came out with "FAT32 v2.0"? Or when NTFS came out with NT4 back in the mid-90s, you too would have waited until they came out with "NTFS v2.0"? You have no idea how many files were runied by FAT32 v1.0 and NTFS v1.0

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RE: 2005

256MB might be the standard then. That does not change anything of what I said. My main machine (a Mac) is almost 4 years old. MS is planning on leaving most 2 year old machines in the dust. Then again, my Windows box is still running Win2000, I guess that is because it is 3 years old and XP is THAT attractive.

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05/16, 03:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

"As for the WinFS (Windows Future Storage), I would not entrust it any data until v2.0"
****
Uh, right. So when FAT32 came out to replace Win16, you would have waited until they came out with "FAT32 v2.0"? Or when NTFS came out with NT4 back in the mid-90s, you too would have waited until they came out with "NTFS v2.0"? (sarcastic)You have no idea how many files were runied by FAT32 v1.0 and NTFS v1.0?! (/sarcastic)

Did you bat an eyelash when changing your FS to HFS+? This also begs the question, why was Apple so behind in releasing a jornaling FS?

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05/16, 03:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
2005...

No one is forced to upgrade anything... I don't see a need to upgrade corporate PCs from w2k to XP either. Corporate PCs upgrade on a different cycle anyway (Win98 --> skip WinME --> Win2000 --> skip XP --> Longhorm(?)).

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Re: Well...

WinFS is not FAT32 or NTFS. It is a layer on top of NTFS (NT File System) that provides database like properties. It is a completly different story. Note that I wrote "data" not "files." This will be a paradigm change that will probably include DRM and is a large enough endeavour to prevent all bugs from be shaken out from the initial implementation. WinFS like FAT32 or NTFS will not have a 2.0 spec, but it will definitly have updated implementations.

Anyone who uses v1.0 of a MS technology in a production environment is a fool.

As for the browser story, I don't know what kind of troll is writing this, but Safari is faster on my machine than IE under NT2000 on my VAIO.

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Hmm...

To me IE on Win is still the speed king. Much discussion has been made on why IE seems to the fastest overall (of course some browsers are better/faster on certain sites/page), not only compared to Safari but also to Moz, Phoenix, Konq, Netscape 4/5, etc on various platforms.

It has someting to do with MS taking advantage of a loophole i.e. not send an which saves time. Of course, people will (and did) jump on this and say "Ah ha, MS is not following the standard." True. But this also raises the question, is it longer necessary to acknowledge by sending an in this age of broadband (or 56k dialup). Food for thought.

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05/16, 03:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
XP not comparable

I don't think we should be comparing X to an already inferior OS, XP. I want Apple to campare themselves to Classic Mac, there are some UI features of the Classic Mac that really need to be implemented into X. Windowshade (I'm using Unsanity's Windowshade X now, and it's a lifesaver), Pop-Up Folders, Trash Can on the Desktop (I hate having the trash can as a moving target, bad UI), Labels, a better more graphical way to see what program you're currently in (like the application menu on 9)(right now you have to read "Safari" or "Finder" which is a lot slower than just looking for an icon. If they would add the icon of the app you're in to the name or just the icon, it'd be much faster)

I'm still now, after using X for 2 years, a lot, lot faster on OS9. The OS just doesn't do things as intelligently as OS9 did. As for stability, power, etc. X kicks 9's a**. But still for fast & efficient work flow, 9 is still the master.

Just my 2�.

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05/16, 04:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
xp not comparable

" Pop-Up Folders, Trash Can on the Desktop (I hate having the trash can as a moving target, bad UI), Labels, a better more graphical way to see what program you're currently in (like the application menu on 9)(right now you have to read "Safari" or "Finder" which is a lot slower than just looking for an icon. If they would add the icon of the app you're in to the name or just the icon, it'd be much faster)"
*****

OS X (10.2) does alot of the things you''re complaining about above. Pop-Up (or spring-loaded) folders exist in 10.2, the trashcan exist in the dock and if it's too much of a moving target, turn off magnification. As for the name of program, you have to get used to looking at the bottom of screen for the larger icons and tick mark under what's running as opposed to the very tiny (really, it's small) icon and application name in OS 9.

I can understand your frustration with lack of a windowshade feature. The minimize affect in OS X is very 'windows'ish. All in all, still like OS X much better than 9.

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05/16, 04:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: no need to

Oh really. Does a Phd in computer science mean anything?

Actually, not to me. In my experience, it seems the higher the degree, the more "theoretical" and less "practical" (or real-world) their knowledge is.

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05/16, 04:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Windoshade, smindoshade

" I can understand your frustration with lack of a windowshade feature. The minimize affect in OS X is very 'windows'ish. All in all, still like OS X much better than 9. "

Eww, I HATE windowshading. Talk about truly useless. Glad to see they S***-canned it in X!

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05/16, 04:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: XP not comparable...

Geesh, I hate it when people think that just because some feature was in OS 9 that it was some great interface advancement and needs to be in OS X. Take the trash can. Why is it logical for it to be on the desktop? Do you keep a trash can on your desk at home or in the office? I don't. I leave it on the floor, in the corner (hey, at least the OS 9 trash can acted like my real one in the sense that I tended to miss it all the time when dragging files to it, causing them to pile up next to it - now I get lots of dock icons...). The only reason its "logical" is because that's how it was done.

It also amazes me how many people bemoaned the loss of Windowshade. Not because its useless (I have the haxie as well), but because it was so derided when Apple came out with it in OS 7.5. Back then they wanted minimazation. Now you get minimization, people want windowshading. Pop-up windows (not spring-loaded folders) were a little useful, but when dealing with a folder full of stuff, I just don't see how its a time-saver over other choices (except some of the other choices you have to buy - horrors).

But how is OS X worse at figuring out what app your running than OS 9? You say the application menu was better, but you had to look up in the corner, see an icon, convert it mentally to the program name, and then go from there (or, if you had the program name showing, you had to look at that). In OS X, here's an idea. Don't look at the dock, just look at the left side of the menu. Right there, it has the application name! What a concept! The only part of the app menu that was easier is if you set it up like a little dock, but you still had to look over there and determine what icon was grayer then the rest.

To me, most of the 'useful' features that everyone decries missing seemed more like hacked on enhancements in OS 9 to begin with, rather than well-thought out interface improvements.

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Replies

Last refuge of the ignorant: "it seems the higher the degree, the more "theoretical" and less "practical" (or real-world) their knowledge is. "

Now, "OS X (10.2) does alot of the things you''re complaining about above. Pop-Up (or spring-loaded) folders exist in 10.2, the trashcan exist in the dock and if it's too much of a moving target, turn off magnification. As for the name of program, you have to get used to looking at the bottom of screen for the larger icons and tick mark under what's running as opposed to the very tiny (really, it's small) icon and application name in OS 9. " ...

I miss the clear, easy open/save dialogue boxes where actions were predictable. I can't have a bunch of screen space set up for a dock so I have it autohide, and yes, without magnification teh trash still jumps around. Using the dock to swithc apps is hard on the eyes and takes too long; Windows and OS 9 both have it better.

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05/16, 04:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
2005?

Now, is that 2005 real-time, like MS saying "Its going to take us 2 more years to put this together, debug it, make sure its secure, etc", or is it 2005 MS time, which is "We're announcing it'll be released in 2005, but we figure it'll be delayed at least a year as we work out some snags and bugs, but we'll be saying we're improving compatibility with everyone's 15-year-old DOS programs they have." ?

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Re: a g*** free OS?

> Is it possible for Apple to Develop and operating system that
> can prevent minorities from using it, especially Asians?
> [blah blah... white power trash talk... blah blah]

It's already been done, you just need follow the special activation procedure. Step 1, go up to the top floor of the highest office building in your town. Step 2, open the window and throw your n***-a** out of it. Step 3, there's no step three!

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05/16, 04:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Pop-up windows

>>OS X (10.2) does alot of the things you''re complaining about above. Pop-Up (or spring-loaded) folders exist in 10.2

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05/16, 04:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Pop-up windows 2

Pop-up windows do not now, nor have they ever existed in any iteration of OS X. "Pop-up" and "spring-loaded" are not the same features.

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Re: replies

Last refuge of the ignorant: "it seems the higher the degree, the more "theoretical" and less "practical" (or real-world) their knowledge is. "

You may think it ignorant, but I've met too many PhD's and MS holders who not only talk down to people because they don't have that degree, but can only deal with topics of little or no value to a conversation or project. And the PHd holders have spent so much time working on their dissertations (usually dealing with high-concept futuristic c*** that has no useful application) that they have no idea what's actually happening in the real world. I'm glad you never had to meet such people.

I miss the clear, easy open/save dialogue boxes where actions were predictable. I can't have a bunch of screen space set up for a dock so I have it autohide, and yes, without magnification teh trash still jumps around. Using the dock to swithc apps is hard on the eyes and takes too long; Windows and OS 9 both have it better.

Can't argue against the dialogs. One thing on the dock, you could just lock it to the right corner of your screen, so the trash is always in the same place. You can also place it on the left or right side to remove it from the vertical space (I personally don't like it on the left, because most windows open to the left edge, and it screws it up. On the right, the trash can doesn't lock to the corner, so it also doesn't help on that front).

And if you like the Application menu so much, just download ASM. It gives the same functionality. And if you hide the dock, then you generally don't have to look at it.

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05/16, 05:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: replies

Last refuge of the ignorant: "it seems the higher the degree, the more "theoretical" and less "practical" (or real-world) their knowledge is. "

Hey, I just wish somewhere down the line these higher-ed institutions would teach basic programming concepts, like commenting! Or telling their students that just because code works doesn't mean its good! h***, try to tell them that writing readable code is more important then using fancy coding techniques, and they laugh at you.

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05/16, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
XP update

I wouldn't expect MS to go too long without a paid update to XP. h***, they said that 95 was going to be just a stepping stone to an integrated NT/95, but then 98 came out. Then 98 SE. But that was to be the last. Win2K was going to merge the consumer and office OS's. But then problems with that. So they stuffed all their 98 bug fixes together, slapped in the new interface they were working on with IE 6, and shipped out "Windows Me"! (sort of like how Apple slapped Copland's interface onto OS 7 to get OS 8).

So look for Windows XP2 (that's squared!) in another year.

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05/16, 05:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
money talks

I know OS X is a great OS, and what not, but we have to realize one thing here, Microsoft has got a s...t load of more money than Apple and they're just not going to let Apple beat them in the main thing they are known for, which is software. Microsoft is going to throw everything plus the kitchen sink on this new OS( Longhorn) to be ahead on this OS war. All I know is that Apple better hip it to the hoppa on getting this OS to be fast and rock solid and to get this damn developers to be up to date on driver and software updates.

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05/16, 05:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Re: a g*** free OS?

> Is it possible for Apple to Develop and operating system that
> can prevent minorities from using it, especially Asians?
> [blah blah... white power trash talk... blah blah]

It's already been done, you just need follow the special activation procedure. Step 1, go up to the top floor of the highest office building in your town. Step 2, open the window and throw your n***-a** out of it. Step 3, there's no step three!

...I second that.

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05/16, 05:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
why get excited?

check out the video about the image rendering thing and see how the windows fly from here to there like waves, plus full alpha capacity....

dunno why they get excited for that... for having it in 2005...

you know, I have that on my machine for more than a year already.

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05/16, 05:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Humanity...

is doomed. Based on the posts in these discussion boards, I think we should all go out and blow our heads off. Give the world back to mother nature and all the animals. Having said that...

What's the big deal? I really don't understand the whole "mine is better than yours" ideology. Try something. If you don't like it, try something else. There's never going to be any one thing that will satisfy everyone. At least there's still a choice. Make it a wise one and be happy with it.

Anyone with half a brain should look at all the options available and see which is going to fit their needs the best.

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05/16, 05:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Panther v Longhorn

That report was heavy on the features that are going to be included in Longhorn but didn't mention very much about Panther at all. One wonders why it was even reported on a Mac news site...

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05/16, 05:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE:XP not comparable

I, personaly, prefer the trash being in the dock - it gets it out of the way...

If your still having troubles putting things in the can, try making an alias of .Trash... Simple

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05/16, 05:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re Panther v Longhorn

There are no Panther features mentioned because Apple doesn't comment on features planned for future releases =). Aside from what's on rumor sites, there is no public knowledge of what may be in Panther.

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05/16, 05:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Concerned

"Apple is reportedly working to match XP's GUI responsiveness" I have XP running on a 2GHZ laptop with 768MB of RAM and and ATI 32MB video card. All this and I had to shut off all of XP's GUI and go back to the Windows Classic Scheme to get the reponsiveness I like. Hopefully Apple will keep their GUI faster than XP's (right were it should be with Quartz).

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05/16, 05:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
OS X no speed demon

There are a lot of opinions here, but I keep noticing a consistent thread in the comments from the more lucid comments. OS X is a great OS, but it?s achilles heal is that it performs much more slowly than OS 9.

I would have to agree with this assessment.

There are nits and bits about OS X that most of us can live with, but the new multi-tasking available in OS X really shows how slow it is even on the fastest PowerMacs out there. I hope Apple can fix this one significant flaw in an otherwise incredibly proficient OS.

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05/16, 05:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Whatever

Empty arguments about which os is better and whether a PhD makes your opinion worthwhile aside, seeing what MS has planned for their next revision makes me feel pretty good about being on X.

I've used XP, and I'm a hardcore X user. At this point, I certainly know which OS I prefer, and I still feel kind of sorry for Win folks, though 2KPro is passable in most areas.

That said, who knows what X'll look like in 2005--we'll have had Panther for at least a year (probably closer to 2), plus interim fixes, and we'll more than likely have at least one more major release--and that's if MS actually manages to make its target.

After all that, what'll Win users get? Quartz-esque graphics (and although the flapping window demo looked cool, we've already got what it takes to do that), a nice-sounding FS layer (which rumors say 10.3 may have something like), a better find feature (the Windows find has always been PATHETIC, so even if it works it'll only be a step toward useful), and... oh, yeah, and Palladium. Ick.

So basically, they're going to be getting some nice features we already have, a few we more than likely will by that time, and absolutely nothing revolutionary at all. Compared to the CURRENT Win release, and that's already largely inferior to X. So much for MS having something up its sleeves.

Not that XP doesn't have some worthwhile features, but that article did mention that Apple is working to fill in a few of the gaps, which if true would be very nice. I'm waiting, but even if they fail, "we" are still "winning".

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05/16, 06:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

If you are running a 2 ghz laptop and still not getting a responsive GUI and then you are probably not doing something right (not flamebaiting, just trying to help).

If you are doing things right, then there should be no difference in GUI responsiveness between a fast machine (my work machine is a 2+ ghz running w2k) or a slow one (my home machine is 800 Mhz running XP) in non-CPU intensive tasks like web surfing or Office apps.

Check if you have downloaded an optimized display driver from the laptop manufacturer or ATI. Check http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm to make sure if you have optimized your services. Run spybot if you are not sure if you have installed any spyware/adware.

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05/16, 06:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Trash

I, personaly, prefer the trash being in the dock - it gets it out of the way...

If your still having troubles putting things in the can, try making an alias of .Trash... Simple

Plus, the trash can is always visible. I always found it a pain in the a** when I'd want to trash something, only to find that some window was covering the trash can. At least trashing stuff is instaneous (at least for me). On my W2K system, throwing something in the trash can take up to 10 seconds of hourglass time. h***, opening the trash is sometimes a just painful. Plus, if I delete a few items from the trash (the one feature from Windows I wish OS X had), the trash window starts refreshing like every 5 seconds, and I have to close and open it again for it to stop. (Oh, and I hate how windows can't be set to not delete stuff from the trash on its own).

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, putting .Trash on the desktop isn't a good answer, esp. if you have multiple partitions/drives. When you delete stuff from a drive, it puts it in its own trash can, and they all show up under the OS X trash can. Dragging a file to a .Trash alias most likely would just copy the file to your .Trash directory, not remove it from where it is.

One other question for you multi-users out there. In OS X, if I were to trash some files (esp. from another drive/partition), would those files show up in the trash of another user? I know stuff in my ~/.Trash folder wouldn't show up, I'm more curious about stuff on the /Volumes/Drive2/.Trash folder.

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05/16, 06:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Waving windows

Gee, where have I seen that before? Hmmmmm

Also, while it looks cool, just like X's Genie effect, it serves more as a "This is what it could do" demo than a "look at what it will do" demo. Three minutes of running Windows and the entire world will be going "Cool! Now how do I turn that off?" Of course, with Windows, you can never tell what you can and can't turn off, nor where you would go about doing it (hey, MS could make a boatload of money if they just updated their OS so all their options/control panels/etc were designed consistently and logically so you knew where to go to change something.

Oh, and for those who hate the new finder because the toolbars are so big and the windows waste so much space, take a look at the screen-wasting new explorer windows in Longhorn!

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05/16, 07:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
um...

128mb is the standard NOW

I third the gooks

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05/16, 08:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:Well...

>BTW, it is "I would have dropped" not "I would of dropped".

Ouch! I stand corrected.

BTW, it is "...who thinks he already knows everything AND has nothing else to learn." not "...who thinks he already knows everything has nothing else to learn."

If your going to correct my grammar on these boards, well, being a Professor, you better be exceptionally prolific in yours.

And regarding your point, I don't know everything, nor do the comments I made imply this. I learn, explore and create everyday.
Have some respect for people that appreciate learning from somebody that's encouraging and motivating. And don't lay that "real world" garbage on me. We all live in the real world. As different as mine is to the next persons, it's pretty darn real. Prof, it seems to me you need to learn a thing or two about motivating tactics, encouragement and, like I said, respect for people that are ambitous about learning.

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05/16, 09:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Eh?

How does one be prolific in grammar?

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05/16, 10:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Speed vs Responsiveness

MacOS X is faster than MacOS 9. There are things you can do in X that are nearly impossible in 9, or which while possible do godawful things to the system and/or other applications. MacOS X is slightly less responsive than MacOS 9 - this is what most confuse for speed. If button takes a tenth of a second to respond, it's less responsive. If the operation the button does takes a second longer, it's slower. More often than not, MacOS X losses in the former and suceeds in the latter (button may take longer to respond, but operation takes less time to complete).

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05/16, 10:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:Eh?

To be exceptional in ones spelling, phrasing, choice of words and OK, maybe "prolific" isn't the best descriptor of my point. Geesh, I hope my point was understood, it was quite clear.

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05/16, 10:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Proficient...

...is what I meant, but one that is proficient at something, usually is prolific as well.

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05/16, 10:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Way off topic but...

...made my point. Sorry to stray.

I can't wait for Panther!

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05/16, 11:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
just a comment

>> If you are running a 2 ghz laptop and still not getting a responsive GUI and then you are probably not doing something right (not flamebaiting, just trying to help).
If you are doing things right, then there should be no difference in GUI responsiveness between a fast machine (my work machine is a 2+ ghz running w2k) or a slow one (my home machine is 800 Mhz running XP) in non-CPU intensive tasks like web surfing or Office apps.
Check if you have downloaded an optimized display driver from the laptop manufacturer or ATI. Check http://www.blkviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm to make sure if you have optimized your services. Run spybot if you are not sure if you have installed any spyware/adware. !

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05/16, 11:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
fw: just a comment

>> If you are running a 2 ghz laptop and still not getting a responsive GUI and then you are probably not doing something right (not flamebaiting, just trying to help)... Check if you have downloaded . Check to make sure if you have optimized your services. Run if you are not sure ... !

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05/16, 11:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
fw: just a comment

If you are running a 2 ghz laptop and still not getting a responsive GUI and then you are probably not doing something right (not flamebaiting, just trying to help). Check if you have downloaded (...). Check (...) to make sure if you have optimized your services. Run (...) if you are not sure ... That's exactly why I use Macs!!!

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05/16, 11:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
"Trash" talk

What's with all this fire and brimstone about "I want the trashcan on the desktop" vs. "I like it in the dock"? Really, does it matter? I generally don't even need to see the trashcan. Command-backspace gets rid of files much more easily than drag and drop into the trash.

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05/16, 11:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Professor v. Phd

Why don't you two ladies go hump a f&cking door k***.
One on one side and one on the other.

You seem like two pathetic self-centered overeducated meat-heads. If you are going to have a p&ssing contest why not start with a p_nis to begin with.

Maybe one of you could correct my grammar now!

I'm just a power-user, whom has had to put up with Microsoft for about 12 years of c***, and then I discovered the Mac, and I won't go back!

It just works, pretty much sums up all I need to know about this great OS and computer. The community alone is worth the switch, as I have lived in the MS world where there are nothing but double-talking geeks that make more problems than they fix.

That's JOB SECURITY for you.

out.

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05/17, 12:18am | report spam | close Reply |
P vs P

"I'm just a power-user, whom has had to put up with Microsoft for about 12 years of c***, and then I discovered the Mac, and I won't go back!"
***
So... you are saying that you are a retarded m******** since you took 12 years of punishment before discovering Apple?

We don't want you back!

- the professor -

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05/17, 12:20am | report spam | close Reply |
...

"Check if you have downloaded (...). Check (...) to make sure if you have optimized your services. Run (...) if you are not sure ... That's exactly why I use Macs!!"
****
What, so as a Mac user you do not tell people to download stuff off of Macupdate or Versiontracker? I am just trying to help the guy rather than crapping the thread so chill the f*** out.

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05/17, 02:15am | report spam | close Reply |
What the f...

I must be losing it, as I don't quite understand what is newsworthy about the article. A bunch of rumors about unreleased software that is as much as 2 years away is not news. The article was more like a press release from Microsoft touting what wonderful features they intend to implement in their future OS upgrade. I don't think there was a single fact in the entire article. Perhaps microsoft-watch should delete the article from their site to get some credibility back.

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05/17, 02:28am | report spam | close Reply |
Re What the f...

I agree and disagree with you in a couple of ways. First, I agree that rumors about alpha built of Windows has no place on this site beside serving as flamebait article. However, whatever MS-watch does is their own business. If anything, Apple has much more rumor site/user ratio than Microsoft. :) - KL

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05/17, 06:56am | report spam | close Reply |
Responsive...

What is this about responsiveness?
Running OS X 10.2.6 on my 'old' Cube 500Mhz, flies superb...

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05/17, 07:06am | report spam | close Reply |
Longhorn on $300 PC's

It'll never happen. If Longhorn will have the graphics capability to match OS X... then people running those $300 systems with on-board video will never be able to run the graphics. They will need Radeons and GeForces, etc.

So much for the "cheap" PC.

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05/17, 09:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: what the f

Talking about MS concepts still two years away is news, because of history. These 'previews' and discussions and tidbit releases from MS is how they've, in the past, spread their FUD and try to convince their customers that what they need is right around the corner, don't you dare think about going elsewhere. This is the same thing they did in 1996 when they started touting ActiveDirectory and other great advances in Windows NT 5.0, which basically killed Novell and their new product. Of course, Novell had their new server OS out two years before MS, but who knew? MS said it was right around the corner.

So MS is again trying to keep people from better tech, this time from OS X. "We've got this too, plus a whole lot more we're not showing you yet!" they tout. "Sure we've screwed up our handling of .Net, but we'll be getting it right soon!" (keep in mind that .Net is basically Cocoa, or, at most, Cocoa and WebObjects, which has been around for what, 5 years? 10 years? 15 years?).

What Apple needs to be doing is a better job of pointing out the the IT departments, the programmers, etc, that when it comes to this fancy new tech, Apple released it all in 2001. Of course, the only thing in MS's favor on the video front is by the time they release their OS, the video cards will be optimized for their 4G graphics. That's the problem with OS X and Quartz. The video cards don't have the built-in support, like they did with Quickdraw and with other 2D and 3D graphics systems. So Apple's had to build in their own optimations of taking their new imaging tech and hacking it back to OpenGL to speed things up.

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05/17, 11:41am | report spam | close Reply |
re:P vs P

"... So... you are saying that you are a retarded m******** since you took 12 years of punishment before discovering Apple?
We don't want you back!"

Um, prof, he didn't say he began with an Apple, switched to PC's for 12 years and then is returning after 12 years of tortue. He said he discovered the Mac after 12 years. Time for some coffee there Prof.

Though I know my your writing style that you are NOT thte same Prof that I began this with.

-PhD CS

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05/17, 11:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Ooops, Typing to fast

- Torture

- Though I know by your writing style that you are NOT the same Prof that I began this with.

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05/17, 11:45am | report spam | close Reply |
GoDevelopSomethingUseful

And quit all the nonsense. if your highly educated - put it to use, and not to waste on these forums!

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05/17, 11:52am | report spam | close Reply |
GoDevelopSomethingUseful

//For the wise

if prof.knowledge is useful then
comment.here
else
prof.silence
end

// Actually, I have this nice recursion algorithm that involves your // head and a body o******, but I better not.

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05/17, 11:56am | report spam | close Reply |
Head + o****** Recursion

;-)

Post it! Post it!

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05/17, 12:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: What the f...

So, I should not buy Apple Panther because whatever new technology it has will be implemented 2 years later by MS Longhorn? Every time I get excited about a piece of software from Apple it seems MS pipes in that I should wait several years for their equivolent. I know people still on Win98SE because ME/2K/XP just isn't as compatible/reliable with their existing hardware/software. If this is going to be the case with longhorn, it will be something like 2008 before Longhorn is patched enough to be useable and trustworth. I might just go against MS's advice and get the Panther upgrade in a few months so I can enjoy the new technology now and so i don't have to wait several years for security fixes and bug fixes to become available. Perhaps the 970 chip will be on the market soon as well, so I don't have to hear any more whining about the speed of the G4.

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05/17, 01:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
The Truth Hurts

"...it will be something like 2008 before Longhorn is patched enough to be useable and trustworth."

Amen

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05/17, 01:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hopeful

"...Perhaps the 970 chip will be on the market soon as well, so I don't have to hear any more whining about the speed of the G4. "

Amen

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05/17, 01:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
OSX+970=

Microsoft's downfalling!

Oh god, please let this happen soon. So all the good people of earth are not having to be subjected to this garbage code they call Windows.

Amen

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05/17, 01:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Since the begining

Microsoft has been riding on Apples tail, copying their technological advances.

Windows popularity has to do with one main thing: Marketing, not quality. And has eveolved into a world full of people un aware of the differences - to be blunt: Ignorance.

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05/17, 01:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
Motorola=Slackers

If it were'nt for the slackers down at Motorola, the Mac might not be in the prediciment it is in now.

IBM to the rescue!

Longhorn - Be prepared to die before you are even born.

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05/17, 01:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Longhorn-No chance

Panther will victoriously lead the pack.

Longhorn hasn't got a chance in h&ll. It is time for the demise of MS and their c*** they call software.

Microsoft has always been about steeling inventive ideas and marketing them as their own. Please, spare us all of the pathetic morals of this scramble brained corp.

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05/17, 01:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Leader Of The Pack

Hmmmm, which company is known for their ingenuity?

Yep, that's right.

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05/17, 01:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Micro Soft

I think the two combined words used to form the name of this company were taken from descriptions of Bill Gates p****.

And what do doctors recommend a day to stay healthy-yep.

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05/18, 12:15am | report spam | close Reply |
For the last time!!!

It's not Panther vs. Longhorn! Panther is due out in 2003, a year before longhorn. Apple will let another cat out of the bag in 2004 to go up against Longhorn.

Think about it--970+Panther this summer/fall, a full year of tweaking and optimizing OS X for the 970, then a totally bitchin' version of OS X released just as Longhorn is set out to pasture. The OS X experience on a 970 -based Mac will totally outshine Longhorn! Not even a chance for M$ to copy Apple's next cat...

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05/19, 04:05am | report spam | close Reply |
summary (my 2c)

1. session suspension. (ie. logout without killing apps - just make them unaccessible to kids that quickly want to play a game) - so you don't have to close off all your browser windows etc. XP has it, osx needs it.

2. we will be insignificant till we run on x86/amd. period. blah blah legacy apps blah blah. answer: who cares. all worthwhile apps are ported. apple, make a quark killer for god's sake.

3. ship X11R6 with X so we can "just run" linux c*** programs. just so we can say we can do it, not because we want to do it. also ship with teTeX for scientists and CS PhD's ;-) (BTW, a prof doesn't have to have a PhD so... actually a PhD's opinion may count more... depends on what degree the prof has and how many journal articles s/he's published)

4. osx NFS/NIS does not work with linux, so we lose out on compatibility.

5. samba print sharing please.

6. windowshade please (or tabs like beos).

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05/21, 02:33am | report spam | close Reply |
window shade

you can get window shades for an extra $8 from APE - It works as an additional System Pref and can be adjusted down in the bottom row of "Others".

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05/21, 03:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
It is rather funny

that MS is working on a version of Quartz for Loghorn. Don't they ever get tired of copying everyone else's ideas? Sheesh. I mean come on: they have 97% of the market. And they're still worried about the mac?

IMHO Gates is still obsessed with Jobs. Why else would he care about copying the mac in 2003? It's like the fly that you can never swat ;-)

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05/21, 03:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
What is the point of this

Hello? The argument isn't longhorn vs panther. It's longhorn vs OS X 10.4 or 10.5. Major OS X upgrades are coming out around once every year to year and a half. That means at probably two more OS X revisions before Longhorn even ships!

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08/18, 05:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
...

(yawn)

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10/28, 06:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
$129.00 for this?

@ least when bill puts it in, you can see it comming.
it looks like steve likes the back door!
this is bullshit! I cant see 129.00 difference from 10.2 to 10.3!, I guess mac is getting too popular, now these guys both look alike!

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02/14, 10:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Windows wins!

Windows wins(again). When will macs get more consumers?

Matt

P.S I use Windows XP, its GREAT. Never used Macs very much, but i'm planning too check them out a bit more.

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MS Watch: Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn

updated 01:00 pm EDT, Fri May 16, 2003

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1st post!

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all right

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well...

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I'm happy with Jaguar

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um...

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re:Eh?

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Way off topic but...

just a comment

fw: just a comment

fw: just a comment

"Trash" talk

Professor v. Phd