"This is the type of thing that gets Apple into legal trouble because it's "illegal," not "innovative." "

So it's illegal for a company to open it's own retail stores??? And it's illegal for a company to communicate with consumers that buy their products??? Thank you for enlightening the rest of us that had the nerve to make a sound arguement.

They had rude, cocky employees who were unwilling to help people. I took a new Mac user there once and have to say that they experience left the person feeling like they didn't want a Mac after all.

In contrast, the Apple store had friendly people who were very helpful.

"Elite" Computers is right. They were very elitist.

No it is not illegal. Apple is not closing all retail stores that compete against them. The encourage them. The crappy ones don't need any encouragement.

in reading all these posts- it just sounds like good ol' capitalism is the main reason these "elite" losers are going under. besides- don't businesses ever try to change their strategy or adapt when the business rules change (as in an apple reseller vs. retail apple store?) it doesn't appear that "elite" really tried very hard. not to mention they have a really STUPID name for a mac reseller. good riddance.

Try the stores in Arizona for a change. Nothing but cocky, rude employees. I was in the Biltmore location to purchase a Dual Processor 867, asked an employee a question if they are stocking a computer, watched him walk into the back for something then come out and start up a conversation with another employee. I figured they were talking about my question but when I looked there way they turned around and looked the other way. I walked up to them and asked again and got, 'uh, no..we don't have that.' then they continued they talk.

This was not the first time I got poor service either, I just get ignored at the locations here. I manage a retail store and my employees must greet a customer within 30 seconds not 30 minutes.

I switched to Apple two years ago and have since spent well over ten thousand dollars on computers alone. I choose apple for many reasons, however when I decided to purchase an over priced computer I expected service that goes with the price.

The last time I was in I got better service but nothing that would make me leave thinking, 'these people care'.

Maybe this Elite was bad on service however if we're only going to be able to purchase from Apple in the future they should train more on customer service.

If anyone from the Biltmore location is reading this good. Be proud of what you do and who you work for but if you're going to have an attitude just call in sick and do us all a favor because when I drive 150 miles to shop at your store I don't need attitude.

"So it's illegal for a company to open it's own retail stores??? And it's illegal for a company to communicate with consumers that buy their products???"

It starts going a fair way towards having monopoly control over a commodity - which is, wow, illegal.

Personally I don't see that independent retailers and Apple-owned shops are in any way reconcilable. Apple controls the prices to the independent retailers, the margins on which are very slim, Apple sells it's own kit in competition to these retailers - in this case it not only makes its "manufacturing" profit, but also removes the distributor's profit from the chain and nabs the full retail profit too.

I think the main thrust of the lawsuit deals with Apple controlling inventory adn giving preferential treatment to it's own retail stores.
I'm not sure about the law in this regards but it's capitalism to want to make more money.. and as long as this kind of practice doesn't fall under monopoly laws, I can't see how there could be a law suit unless it's proved that Apple *intentially* withheld product from these stores in an attempt to put them out of business in deference to their own stores.
Still proving that might be difficult.

Around here, we have the choice of MicroCenter, Frys, and CompUSA. All three have problems.

MicroCenter employees were quite vocal about complaining about Apple competition, but they were not knowledgable and their inventory was always sub-par and out of date. Apple may control their access to CPUs, but it is up to MC to purchase software from the same wholesalers that deliver to the Apple store. Lack of inventory implies lack of concern.

CompUSA has always had stuff encroaching on the Apple 'store within a store', and hordes of employees who do not understand Apple gear and software. Finding an Apple sales guy is essentially impossible.

For example, when MOO3 came out, I called CompUSA, MC, Frys, and the Apple store. MC had a human answer, but no stock. The other three claimed to have stock, but only the Apple store was willing to set one aside for me to pick up after work. All three were out of stock later the next day, but I had my copy because someone was willing to save it for three hours.

In the end, I spend my money where it is appreciated - I do not want to pay more for crummy service. Nor do I want to pay for the priviledge of being insulted. I am not happy about paying more at all, but I am willing to do so if I get something worth while.

re: Apple Employees Friendly?
I also have felt that the employees seem to spend time talking to each other (well to be fair some would be helping customers but others would be helping each other - also I have not been to a DC store for a half year or so). I know that they are all part of the "club" but the customers should be made to feel like they are the most important member of the "club" not like outsiders trying to get a question in. Personally, whatever they are doing should be second to the customer. If they have important company business that takes priority over the customer it should be done out of sight.
iolaire

if you haven't filed a complaint with Apple corporate about your experience at the Biltmore Apple Store, i would encourage you to do so.

Apple's going to WANT the competition to drop off?

They want to control EVERYTHING in the retail experience...

Maybe that is the point. They just want to get rid of all the sellers, and do it all themselves. There is NOTHING illegal about this. In fact, Gateway and Dell both do this (or did this in the past before they started selling their c*** on Home shopping or in Best Buy or some other lame store). Apple would probably be better off losing all the retailers, then just contract out for Servicing (just like Dell does for their in-home service).

First off what commodity is it going after?

Second off what proof do you offer up of a being a monopoly is illegal?

It is not. Before power company deregulation, electricity was a monopoly. Regulated one yes, but a legal monopoly.

Monopolies are not inherently illegal. Abuse of the monopoly is. It will be upon Elite computers and others to prove Apple abused its so called monopoly.

Elite (and Computerware) certainly had their problems (the accusations of arrogant employees -- at least at Elite -- ring true to me), but they were with Apple form the beginning, and stuck it out during the bad times.

Pre-Apple store, a chance trip to Elite Computers (across the street form the main Apple Campus) was a breath of fresh air. They had everything -- even computers you supposedly could only buy direct from Apple -- and it was all on display in good working order.

I made a point of buying from the Berkeley Computerware (well, splitting it with M.A.C. just around the corner), to support them. After Elite took over, though, I found the employees much less friendly and only stopped in once or twice.

Ohmygod.... Is it really illegal for a company to open it's own retail stores. Gateway better close up shop soon cause it will be in deep doo doo and has many MooMoo Cow Patty stores... oh wait!.. they are failing and going the way of the Dodo bird.... never mind then.

rotflmao :)

MacMoose

Though Thomas was not known as the perfect example of a reseller, he was indeed trying to make things happen. Let us not forget opening up stores trying to capitalize on a better machine is and was not an easy undertaking. Running retail outfits these days are increasingly harder and harder. In fact, the little guys are constantly eaten alive, despite there better service. This is due to capitalism, for better or worse. The culture we live in today is one that will drive two hours to save ten cents on a gallon of gas. This holds even more truth when considering larger ticket purchases list office equipment, vehicles and the like. The days where service sells a customer over price are long gone. That is where the issues start clouding.

Apple routinely sends out representatives to the different dealers to see how they are doing. This is a good thing for most resellers as it allows a communication layer to be built up in which both parties understand each other better. Where is gets messy is when those same reps are not becoming sales agents for corporate clientele without the knowledge of the reseller. Those new reps for Apple are able to find out the hot tickets in town and capitalize upon them. That is where you start seeing serious problems with the reseller channels. This can be exemplified in a big way for the science and technical sector for which Apple has been going after seriously in the past year. Apple channel representatives began becoming sales while not informing the resellers that they were doing so. This would allow the reps to collect all the information necessary to take the client into an Apple Direct relationship, and thus taking the customer away.

Competition is not what I question here, but really the falseness of the pretenses upon which govern Apple Channel representatives. If Apple wants to take the clients, they should not require resellers to divulge all their records at any point (in their contract to do so currently) by the very same representatives that are competing with them as an Apple Direct agent. That is why you are seeing resellers not sign the new contracts. If they do, Apple has the right to inspect their business records at will, even if they no longer resell Apple products and services. Yes, there are some that have no choice to sign the new contracts, but those that are not under the gun realize the contracts are so one-sided that anyone signing them are pretty much giving their companies over to the jursidiction of Apple Computer. If you do not believe this would happen, simply try to become a reseller and see the contracts yourself. Those that sign them are under NDA, so they are not going to divulge what is really in them.

Try the stores in Arizona for a change. Nothing but cocky, rude employees. I was in the Biltmore location to purchase a Dual Processor 867, asked an employee a question if they are stocking a computer, watched him walk into the back for something then come out and start up a conversation with another employee. I figured they were talking about my question but when I looked there way they turned around and looked the other way. I walked up to them and asked again and got, 'uh, no..we don't have that.' then they continued they talk.

This was not the first time I got poor service either, I just get ignored at the locations here. I manage a retail store and my employees must greet a customer within 30 seconds not 30 minutes.

I switched to Apple two years ago and have since spent well over ten thousand dollars on computers alone. I choose apple for many reasons, however when I decided to purchase an over priced computer I expected service that goes with the price.

The last time I was in I got better service but nothing that would make me leave thinking, 'these people care'.

Maybe this Elite was bad on service however if we're only going to be able to purchase from Apple in the future they should train more on customer service.

If anyone from the Biltmore location is reading this good. Be proud of what you do and who you work for but if you're going to have an attitude just call in sick and do us all a favor because when I drive 150 miles to shop at your store I don't need attitude.


I also recommend that you send this to Apple. Apple does care when this sort of thing happens. Trust me, they want to know if they have rude employees working at their stores. Once they hear of something like this. The employees will be kicked out the door on their a**.

I agree, when I drive to a store to spend my hard earned cash. I want to have decent service from the store I am visiting. I don't expect this when I visit a store like Wal-Mart.

But I DO EXPECT IT FROM APPLE!

Obviously he's being saterical in saying opening retail stores is illegal...

The Apple Retail Stores have proven to be much more of a place for mainstream (probably people that don't read MacNN believe it or not) consumers to buy Apple Products. Places like MicroCenter/Fry's are often too indimidating for most customers. As for how attentive retail employees are, I'm sure like anyone they can get bored with their job and don't always give the exact 110% when a customer wants it. It's only human - look at us... we're all wasting time on MacNN while we should probably be working. All-in-all, i love my local Apple Retail store.

This might enlighten some of us...

http://news.com.com/2100-1041-997130.html?tag=fd_top

Article about how many resellers have actually reinked up with Apple, including Dell. Basically says companies such as Dell have been in talks and never were going to go anywhere.

It's really not very clever to be comparing Apple to Dell or Gateway. Yes, Dell and Gateway may sell their own kit through online and retail outlets, but, they sell PCs, and lots of other people sell PCs too - so there is competition.

Apple is the only vendor of Apple-compatible hardware, they strictly regulate the market in that hardware, they sell online and now they are moving to have their own chain of shops too. They can only be competing against the existing resellers - who can't really compete because Apple sets the prices.

This is moving towards Apple having a monopoly in the chain of delivery of its hardware.

Now, if you don't believe the above, then you must also believe that Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly either.

It's really not very clever to be comparing Apple to Dell or Gateway. Yes, Dell and Gateway may sell their own kit through online and retail outlets, but, they sell PCs, and lots of other people sell PCs too - so there is competition.

There's competition, but for what? Yeah, I could go and get an eMachines, but I wouldn't call that competition to a Dell box (maybe to a gateway POS).

As for Apple, they already control the entire retail space. Only authorized sellers can sell Apple computers, not just anyone. And they have to sell at specific prices or higher. Some mail-oreder shops might be able to cut $50 or $100, or add some extra RAM, but there is no real competition. So to claim Apple's acting monopolistic NOW is incorrect, because they aren't acting any more irresponsible then before.

Here is one of my problems with this whole mess. Apple is essentially fixing the prices, which is illegal. If anyone recalls, Apple got in big trouble in Asia a few years back for the very same issues. If Apple can completely regulate prices, have full access to a dealer's records / books, how is that not using its power as a monopoly? The only thing that keeps Apple from getting in trouble here in the states is the small line in the contract that says you can sell for what you wish, but risk losing your AppleFund dollars if you partake in selling below their MAP pricing. Technically they are not illegal. Ethically, you decide.

You must be off your nut. Dell's competition is the like of IBM, HP/Compaq, Sony and Toshiba. That's plenty to take a choice from. As for Gateway there are literally hundreds of manufacturers/packagers of PCs in their sell space.

You're kind of right in that Apple has a degre of control unrivalled elsewhere - but now they are really reaching out to the final stage of delivery, retail and online sales. Where they do this in retail they have the capability to kill other local resellers.

While I support the idea of Apple having "boutique" stores to show off their goods, they've actually gone a long way beyond what I would consider reasonable.

As a Mac user I think what they are doing damages the marketplace and kills diversification - do you really want to be in a position whereby the only retail location you can buy Apple-compatible software is at an Apple store?

That's where monopoly goes.

There were some good people at Computerware by Elite in San Rafael. They helped me out of some jams. They cared, as opposed to the teenbeans over at CompUSA across town. They will be missed.