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http://www.macnn.com/articles/02/12/19/gnu-darwin.chides/

GNU-Darwin chides Apple, says no OSX manager

updated 11:35 am EST, Thu December 19, 2002

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The GNU-Darwin project says it is stepping up its , noting issues with its DMCA and APSL policies: "First, Apple continues the wall-of-silence with respect to their repugnant DMCA-based legal action, and there is no reason whatsoever for us to think that they will not undertake similar action in the future...Second, APSL is languishing, and it is unacceptable to the free software community. It is now time for an APSL revision, which brings the license in line with the free software definition in accordance with the expectations of GNU Project." The project says that it "will not support or distribute any software which links to proprietary libraries, and that includes Cocoa, Carbon, CoreAudio, etc. There will be no native package manager from GNU-Darwin (pkg_add suffices)" and that it will be putting its PowerPC collection into maintenance mode.

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12/19, 11:51am | report spam | close Reply |
That's it.

I'm buying a pc.
(someone had to say it)

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12/19, 11:52am | report spam | close Reply |
Confused

So what does this mean???

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12/19, 11:54am | report spam | close Reply |
And the impact is?

nothing

GNU-Darwin is irrelevant to Mac users. They're having a tantrum and throwing the toys out of the pram. In a few months they notice that they have no toys and no one cares about them.

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12/19, 11:58am | report spam | close Reply |
what it means

It means a marginal open source darwin branch will be further marginalizing themselves.

A slashdot reader had this insightful comment:

"...[It's] like a child on the playground at recess sitting down and crying in the middle of a touch football game because the other boys wanted to play with different rules. And then going off to play his own game on the other side of the playground by himself.

"Maybe a bad analogy, but come on. From the statement on sourceforge, nothing in the situation has actually changed; it just seems like the project maintainers had been hoping that Apple would bow down and see the light, but it's been too long and they haven't. So we're taking our ball and going home."

For more insight, see http://apple.slashdot.org/

If the APSL is not free software compliant, why not say that in the first place instead of finding issue with it now? If Apple's "support" of the DMCA was disgraceful, why bring it up now rather than before starting the project? I mean, I'm sure the burgeoning legions of x86 Darwin users will support you, but at the cost of alienanting all the PPC users.

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12/19, 12:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
whine whine whine

whine whine whine, whine whine-whine, whine.

grow up kiddies.

this goes for rms too -- not everyone loves the GPL

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12/19, 12:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
this is rather funny

this would be akin to the "tail wagging the dog," but these guys don't even amount to a tail. More like a few hairs on the tail trying to convince the tail to wag the dog.

Most telling? Their final comments (not reported by MacNN): "...we will be moving our operations to x86, and we are putting the
ppc collection into maintenance mode."

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12/19, 12:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
somewhat ironic...

if you do a search for Windows-related projects on their site, you're inundated by the search results. Apparently, they don't consider linking to and using Windows code a problem. What can I say... this justs kills their credibility.

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12/19, 12:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Too Bad...

I hope there development skills are better than their communications skills. It seems to me that they do not know how to move forward when faced with some difficulties.

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12/19, 01:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Congrats.

You guys just shot yourself in the foot. By removing anything with Cocoa or any of the Apple core technologies, and moving everything to x86 -- you now have FreeBSD with a Mach kernel. You can thread better than FreeBSD, but otherwise, they have a few years head start on you guys. Say hello to oblivion.

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12/19, 01:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hypocrites

This is from their own Project Summary: "GNU-Darwin aims to be the most free Darwin-based Unix distribution. Our mission is two-fold: Focus on new projects that leverage the unique capabilities of Darwin/Mach and help Apple users to enjoy the benefits of free software." Sounds like their temper tantrum -- 'I'm not gonna play with you, I'll just write for x86' -- is inconsistent with their stated mission. I've just got one word for that -- hypocrites.

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12/19, 02:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
FSF ?idealism? lives on

I am always amused at the fanatics of the world when they decide that someone does not meet their pure definitions. They would rather lose the war, than find a mutual win.

I, personally, find the GPL unusable for much of what I do, usually licensing under the PAL or Python license. For this, I would be considered utterly evil by their standards. Not someone who has a different vision of what open source should be, but someone who is betraying the open source movement.

Apple has moved more towards open source than the other companies of their scope, and has really made an effort, including substantial sums of money and developer time. That effort, however, did not produce exactly what GNU-Darwin wants, and thus they are taking their bat and ball and going home. Do they somehow think they would get a better deal from Microsoft? Or that having a mass OS based on Unix and the Gnu tools is a minor victory?

Sigh. This is why I tend not to hire open source advocates - they are usually utterly unwilling to compromise. I would not ask them to compromise their ethics or ideals, but I would ask them to try to find common ground with others having different priorities.

Scott

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12/19, 02:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Are these people from

Iraq? Would they rather destroy their own country than loose power?

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12/19, 03:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Scott

VERY well said. I try to support (financially and otherwise) open source software where it meets my needs, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the "fiefdoms."

The OS world needs to realise that there is a fair amount of what they are doing that is a *colossal* waste of time - not much more than "busy work" to keep the idea going. As of yesterday you can add GNU-Darwin to that pile.

What's amusing is that MacNN reports this like it's *bad* news. Judging from the developer(s?) on this, I'd say it was good news, both for Mac users and (when this guy fades into oblivion in about two weeks) the OS community.

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12/19, 03:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
pah-leese!

these GNU people are full of c***

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12/19, 03:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
I say...

Meh.

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12/19, 04:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: somewhat ironic

Don't tell me you simply found all the windows projects on Sourceforge & thought they were related to GNU-Darwin. Sourceforge is merely a hosting site for open source projects on ANY platform, and has nothing to do with the stupid decision the GNU-Darwin people came to. I used to use their package system a lot, but oh well... back to FINK (also hosted on sourceforge btw)

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12/19, 04:10pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Its called fink...

http://fink.sourceforge.net/about.php

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12/19, 04:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
GPL is evil

The GPL is as evil as Microsoft. open Source is good. GPL is bad. Good riddance.

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12/19, 04:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Free Software

Just because someone has "thrown a hissy fit" and changed the charter of their project, does not mean that the GPL is without merit.

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12/19, 04:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Free Software

The comments on GPL being evil did not come about (ie, were not formed) because of this GNU-Darwin stuff. I have always thought that open Source is good but the GNU version as embodied in the GPL is bad, evil, as evil as Microsoft. The GPL people want control of youcr computers and software as much as the Microsoft people do. Open Source like the *BSD or similar licenses is the way to go.

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12/19, 05:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yes. GPL. Bad.

Open Source does not equal GPL free software thank heavens! The high priests of GPL just have a very hard time with their egos.

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12/19, 05:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well...

I'd have to admit that I know nothing about this, and therefore will not bore you with my opinion.

Isn't a GNU some sort of small lizard?

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12/19, 06:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
X86 pound weaklings

My, some people think they are so important. If geek stop writing code in the woods would anyone care?

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12/19, 07:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Well,

There was a GNU called Gary GNU and he kind of looked like a lizard.

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12/20, 12:31am | report spam | close Reply |
Yeah, just goes to show

GPL is totally evil. You can't use it unless you want to give away your stuff for free too. It seems to me like they'd get more users and developers willing to contibute if we could use their code in out own way.

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12/20, 03:11am | report spam | close Reply |
It means...

Proclus is a dweeb with his head up his butt.

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12/20, 10:03am | report spam | close Reply |
That's a newt not gnu.

Does anyone remember gnu football? It was pre-internet fantasy football. Late 70's early 80's

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12/20, 05:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
or is it?

...the knights of who say gnu?

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12/20, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
summary

If you made it this far, you might like to have a summary of the key points of argument (rebuttal attempts included for free ;-)

http://www.macslash.org/comments.pl?sid=02/12/18/2332242&cid=8

http://www.macslash.org/comments.pl?sid=02/12/18/2332242&cid=28

http://www.macslash.org/comments.pl?sid=02/12/18/2332242&cid=49

Regards,
proclus

http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

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12/21, 09:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Tard...

You are such a dweeb, proclus.

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GNU-Darwin chides Apple, says no OSX manager

updated 11:35 am EST, Thu December 19, 2002

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That's it.

Confused

And the impact is?

what it means

whine whine whine

this is rather funny

somewhat ironic...

Too Bad...

Congrats.

Hypocrites

FSF ?idealism? lives on

Are these people from

re: Scott

pah-leese!

I say...

Re: somewhat ironic

Its called fink...

GPL is evil

Free Software

re: Free Software

Yes. GPL. Bad.

Well...

X86 pound weaklings

Well,

Yeah, just goes to show

It means...

That's a newt not gnu.

or is it?

summary

Tard...

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