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Apple software supports TCP/IP over FireWire

updated 12:25 pm EST, Wed December 4, 2002

Apple today posted an , which adds support for using TCP/IP over FireWire: "With this software installed, Macintosh computers and other devices can use existing IP protocols and services over FireWire, including AFP, HTTP, FTP, SSH, etc. In all cases, Rendezvous can be used if desired for configuration, name resolution, and discovery....The preview release adds a new Kernel Extension that hooks into the existing network services architecture. Using the existing Network Preferences Pane, users can add FireWire as their IP network node to connect and communicate between two machines."

by MacNN Staff

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12/04, 12:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
WOW!!!!

that is really cool. I never thought of that. The data transfer when linking 2 comuters and starting up holding "T", I believe, works wonderfully, but It never even crossed my mind to network normally this way. Like I said, very cool!

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12/04, 12:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
HOLY SH*T!!

Woah!!!!

Typical Apple. "Dum de dum doo ... by the way, I've just replaced the Ethernet paradigm with something several orders of magnitude better. Where's my sandwich?"

Another awesome invention from the only repeat ONLY computer manufacturer that INNOVATES, *Apple*.

Hats off -- this is going to be huge and opens up incredible possibilities.

I got four words for ya -- I LOVE THIS COMPANY YEAH!!! (huff puff)

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12/04, 12:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
RIP USB2 as competitor

Oh sure, USB2 will still be around ... it's very useful ... but the "debate" over which is "better" just ended.

Wait a few days till the Slashdot people get a hold of this. Actually, I think I'd better submit it.

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12/04, 12:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
next step:

clustering. This will really solve the problems of transferring data between multiple computers working together. Watch for it.

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12/04, 12:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Anyone remember...

...a third party company offering just this functionality a year or two ago? I'm not sure they ever made it out of beta, but (I think) I remember downloading a pre-release version of the software.

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12/04, 12:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Please don't hit me agai

Apple just gets better, and better. The campus at Redmond is preparing fro a beat down as I type this...

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12/04, 01:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: HOLY SH*T!!

Erm, Windows could do this for a few years now. It's an official spec of the 1394 trade foundation.

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12/04, 01:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Sorry...

Yes, MS was doing this for quite some time. Specifically Dell laptops come with the TCPIP stack pre-installed for the 1394 Firewire connection.

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12/04, 01:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Just OS X?

Man I have to keep a legacy OS 9 machine around... I transfer a lot of files back and forth... wish I could use this with it, dam

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12/04, 01:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
FireNET

FireNET software has let you do this for quite a while indeed on Mac and Windows.
Check this out on FWdepot:
http://www.fwdepot.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=38&products_id=136
Still, good move�

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12/04, 01:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
About Time!

I have written Apple over 40 times requesting this feature for the past 18 months.

Anyone know the maximum length of FW cable I can use between two macs?

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12/04, 01:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
sony did it a while ago

i'm pretty sure this was a standard feature on their VAIO notebooks a few years ago... but it's still very cool of apple to do it, maybe this will get the concept some more attention :)

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12/04, 01:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
windows can do it, but

Sure windows and others have been able to do this, but it's Apple that will make it happen. They have the ability to get people interested in tech and to use it. It'll work better and easier on the mac too.

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12/04, 01:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
The best part...

You guys are missing the best part here... ITS RENDEZVOUS enabled!! So this is seriously PLUG AND PLAY.... just plug in and the two computers see each other, this will come in very handy...

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12/04, 01:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
so what if windows can...

... do it already. Has anyone ever tried to get firewire to work on a pc? ...flawlessly? hah. So now the company that can get it right implements it. Cool.

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12/04, 01:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
so...

If I have a cable modem plugged into one of my G4s, can I use a firewire cable to connect to my other G4 and now share the internet connection?

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12/04, 01:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod as network peer

Imagine an iPod as a full network peer, an MP3 server.

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12/04, 02:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
dorks

this is not a big deal. yes it's cool, but it's nothing revolutionary. i used to use it from a windows pc to a sony laptop all the time.

and obviously firewire works fine on windows machines. it had better too since if it didn't you'd see firewire support drop off the face of the earth. oh wait, it already is. it used to be you could go into a circuit city or best buy and buy a firewire cd-rw or hard drive. now you only find usb 2 devices. firewire devices are sometimes available there, but rarely in stock. and besides, the usb 2 devices are typically $30-$50 cheaper than the firewire devices.

routing: you need to setup the routing to share the internet connection through your g4. you may someday be able to use the internet sharing in system preferences to easily configure it. right now though, i'm not sure if it will work over firewire.

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12/04, 02:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Okay, so Apple not first

Okay, so others have implemented this first. Others were the first to implement USB, but look what happened after *APPLE* incorporated it. Ditto Firewire. Ditto most hardware innovations over the last 20 years.

Apple will take this into a completely new realm. *Nobody* is doing anything with this on the PC side, as usual. If they can't pirate it, they're not sure what to do with it! :)

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12/04, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
So what!?

People have been asking Apple to do this since FW debuted in Jan 1999 - it takes them four years to release a beta version and we all cheer!?

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12/04, 03:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Upgrading Preview release

Can preview releases, such as this one, be removed later when the final version comes out? If so, I'll install it; if not, I'll wait.

The file sits on my drive awaiting an answer...

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12/04, 03:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Firewire2

They waited to release this now, because they are going to release firewire 2 soon. firewire 2 can travel over CAT-5, which means that this is now the ultimate home and small office networking system...

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12/04, 03:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: FireWire Devices

What sort of maniac buys stuff like CD-RW drives from Circuit City or Best Buy? Their prices are insane and their selection is generally awful.

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12/04, 03:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Max FW Cable Length

Max FireWire cable length is 10 meters before you need a repeater.

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12/04, 03:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: FireWire Devices

Joe Schmoe buys his CD-RW from Circuit City or Best Buy. If they find only USB 2 drives there, guess what he's gonna buy. And that means the makers of drives out there will support USB 2 before FireWire.

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12/04, 03:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
apple had a dev of this

There was a developer tools version of firewire file sharing a couple years back- I remember getting it, just didn't have two FW machines to connect together yet ;)

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12/04, 03:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
only advantage to FW/IP

is that you can get a Firewire hub for much cheaper than a Gigabit ethernet hub. this means you can transfer files around much faster than standard 100base-t for much cheaper than gigabit ethernet.

other than that, firewire isn't the saviour some of you make it out to be. i don't think it'll ever get mass appeal like usb did, it'll always be a niche player. at most it'll be a scsi replacement. it'll lose to usb 2 because usb 2 devices are already cheaper and more available than firewire devices. so while firewire is probably better designed and more elegant, usb 2 is a "good enough" solution for the pc-consuming sheep. firewire 2 will offer much more bandwidth, but who among the pc sheep really needs that much bandwidth?

consumer electronics manufacturers are trying to use it for data transfer between devices, but the hollywood monopoly is fighting that like crazy. that's really the only venue i see for firewire to still have a credible foothold and it's got a major opponent trying to stop it from happening.

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12/04, 04:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Firewire devices

Joe Schmoe buys his CD-RW from Circuit City or Best Buy. If they find only USB 2 drives there, guess what he's gonna buy. And that means the makers of drives out there will support USB 2 before FireWire.

So because Circuit City or Best Buy only displays USB 2.0 devices, no one now will make Firewire stuff? Damn, why did I waste my money on firewire hardware for then??? c***! What's really interesting is that hardware manufacturers are told by Best Buy what to build, not by the public.

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12/04, 04:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: Firewire devices

That's right, Best Buy tells manufacturers what to build by what they sell. If the public buys only USB 2, guess what, that's what they're gonna build. It's simple, USB 2 has a potentially bigger market than Firewire and it's got marketing on its side (Joe Schmoe sees 480 and compares it to 400 and goes "hmmm bandwidth" (in Homer Simpson voice).).

And do you think our dinky 5% Mac market will dictate to the 95% that Firewire is worth the investment? Especially when PCs come with USB 2 built in and Firewire requires a $39 install fee or potentially opening up a computer and voiding their warranty or s******* things up themselves?

Apple should just put USB 2 on the Mac. What the h*** is the problem with that? Just because Apple didn't make it? Who cares, gimme USB 2 so I can buy cheaper devices when I want to or better devices when I need to (referring to Firewire or Firewire 2).

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12/04, 04:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: iPod as network peer

You are so close to hitting it on the head. This is the underlying technology for Apple's next consumer lifestyle device: A set-top 40GB DVD player/burner that can connect to your mac and act as an in house server for video, mp3's, pictures, etc. It will use Rendevous via Firewire to automatically talk to your mac, and will include iDVD3 to create and burn disks over your network. The hard disk will store files and television programs.

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12/04, 04:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
WinXP had this built-in

Guys, this was in Windows last year. It's sort of sad, but Apple is playing catch up here - not breaking new ground.

And watch out - it'll kill all of your network locations (see VersionTracker)!

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12/04, 05:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Zealots...

Typicaly Maclot reaction: hurrah, Apple is the first to (create a clamshell notebook, AIO computer, tcp/ip over firewire, etc) do it until someone then points out that PCs have been doing it for a while (WinXP automatically creats a TCP/IP bridge over IEEE1394). Rather than acknowledging their mistakes, Maclot would just switch the topic.

And talking about switching the topic. :) TCP/IP over firewaire is not new and has not been able to catch own b/c 1) few really requires a 400 mbit connection, 2) length restriction, and 3) not as cheap to implement as 10/100 ethernet.

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12/04, 05:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
sheesh

This is cool progress, but once again people laud Apple as the innovator without checking the facts. Windows supports both IP over FireWire and uPnP (MS's version of ZeroConf/Rendevous that has been in Windows since WinME) over FireWire.

someToast
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12/04, 05:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Having cake, eating same

"Especially when PCs come with USB 2 built in and Firewire requires a $39 install fee or potentially opening up a computer and voiding their warranty or s******* things up themselves?"

So, when it's time to slam the Mac's expandability options, PCs are presented as upgrade nirvana, with their users gleefully swapping processors, mobos and cards on a daily basis.

When it's time to slam Firewire, suddenly expanding the PC is a dangerous, warranty-voiding affair to be attempted only by the foolish.

Which is it?

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12/04, 05:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
silly sheep

The average pc sheep won't upgrade/open their computer. they will go to best buy and get the latest, greatest POS wintel box they can find. then they will go home and plug it in and go "doh" (in a homer simpson voice) as it asks for their SSN, first born child, and other personal inforation during registration.

the PC geeks don't put the sides on their computers because they spend all day long messing with the inside to get a decent performing system, which is why i just buy a mac in the first place. then i can actually get some work done, and still have time to watch a movie (which look really nice with Quartz Extreme). did i mention i can run "top" in a transparent terminal window over my DVD playing in a full screen window with out dropping a frame. let's see windows xp do that. (please note the DVD is in a WINDOW with title bar that fills up my entire screen and not just the DVD in true "Full Screen" mode. just trying to avoid confusion here)

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12/04, 05:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Firewire devices

That's right, Best Buy tells manufacturers what to build by what they sell. If the public buys only USB 2, guess what, that's what they're gonna build.

Yeah, but how can Best Buy sell Firewire devices if they don't stock them, or say "Don't make firewire, because we don't stock them, so no one's buying them"? There's a chicken/egg thing to your logic.

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12/04, 05:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: silly sheep

did i mention i can run "top" in a transparent terminal window over my DVD playing in a full screen window with out dropping a frame. let's see windows xp do that.

Wow! Is that really useful, though? "Ooh fred, look, my computer is using just 34% resources while watching this movie kind of near full-screen!". You, dear sir, need to get a life.

Anyways, no one would know if Windows XP could do that because Windows people are too busy using their computers for useful purposes, rather than wasting their time watching movies. Take me, for example. I'm using my work PC to do important things like write-up c*** on MacNN forums. No time for movies for this busy guy.

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12/04, 06:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Don't bash widows Firewi

I love Windows. Windows users call me all the time to help them clean up their messes. It's frustrating but it pays well. At least I get to come home to my Mac! Back on topic if Apple could get Firewire working over Cat 5 using TCP IP it would bring the whole digital hub together.
When did Best Buys become a leader in the computer industry?

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12/04, 06:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re

uPnP is not Rendezvous. They do not do even similar jobs. Check your own facts.

Also: Apple _were_ the first to make an AIO computer and I think they were the first to release a clamshell notebook (don't bring up the fact that Sony designed it, it was still Apple who released the thing.) If I'm wrong on the second point, I apologise.

Amorya

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12/04, 06:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Rendezvous and uPnP

Universal Plug and Play and Rendezvous are similar. The main difference is uPnP does much more and actually has a lot of hardware that supports it on the market and in development (routers, DVR devices, printers).

What SJ wasn't telling the faithful at Mac World was that every future Rendezvous-enabled product he was hyping supports uPnP and Rendezvous-support is a side effect of that.

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12/04, 07:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Screen posts?

I think it has perhaps got to the stage now where MacNN will have to start screening posts due to the number of morons that are posting such ill-informed garbage.

First off, on the topic of IP over FireWire, this is in the IEEE 1394 spec, Apple just never bothered implementing on their OS before. Kinda weird when they developed the spec, but that's Apple for you. However, it is rather stupid to go around proclaiming this as the next big thing when it's been around for 4 or 5 years.

As for Universal Plug and Play, here is a brief description from Micrsoft TechNet: 'UPnP is more than just a simple extension of the Plug and Play peripheral model. It is designed to support zero-configuration, "invisible" networking, and automatic discovery for a breadth of device categories from a wide range of vendors.' Oh wait. That sounds like another technology I know...

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12/04, 08:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
PCs and FireWire

A lot of PCs come with firewire built in today (not just Sonys). And most of the interesting motherboards have FW on the board too... So, it is not just Apple, Sony, and Dell pushing the Firewire connection. It has finaly caught on with the PC in general.

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12/04, 10:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
help!

I am facing some problems about the new IP over Firewire Preview Release program. I have installed the program but i didn't mentioned that the program will disable the function of PPPoE. Now, the computer can't online, and it is the only server for our company website. So, we do need your help in order to fix it urgently. Please give us some ideas how to uninstall the program/driver and re-function the PPPoE. Our machine is G4 with OSX 10.2.2.

IT IS URGENT, Please help.

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12/04, 10:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
help!

I am facing some problems about the new IP over Firewire Preview Release program. I have installed the program but i didn't mentioned that the program will disable the function of PPPoE. Now, the computer can't online, and it is the only server for our company website. So, we do need your help in order to fix it urgently. Please give us some ideas how to uninstall the program/driver and re-function the PPPoE. Our machine is G4 with OSX 10.2.2.

IT IS URGENT, Please help.

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12/04, 10:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Joking?

I hope you're joking. What idiot would install preview/beta software on their company's server - especially if it is the only server? Please say you're joking.

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12/04, 10:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
fw is here to stay

Why? DV cameras. Not that USB2 isn't here to stay either since it will supersede USB1.1.

There also are those PC users who are buying FW cards (or USB2/FW combo cards) in order to use the Windows iPod (I've seen them do so at Fry's, etc.), but I think this is small compared to the number of buy a FW card in order to do get stuff off their DV camera. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Besides this, my PC ($450) has both 3 active FW ports (in addition to 2 USB2 ports, 2 USB1.1 ports and 2 dead USB ports). I imagine more PCs out there will be bundling FW with their computers.

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12/04, 11:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
Remove the kernel exensio

Login as root, and locate the TCPIP over Firewire kernel exention is /System/Library/Extension

Trash it.

Re-boot.

Empty the trash.

Check out normal TCP/IP

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12/05, 01:27am | report spam | close Reply |
computing farm

Can this IP over firewire enable parallel computing environment within Mac?

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12/05, 06:49am | report spam | close Reply |
this is NOT apple's inve

I don't want to be rude or disappoint anyone here, but IP over Firewire is not an Apple invention. In fact, IP over Firewire has been in Microsoft's Windows 2000 and later XP from day one....

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12/05, 12:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
I know�

what would make this forum 100% easier to read and compact it by 200%. Why don't you people try reading the previous posts before you add your moronic commentary?

Or maybe we could have another 10 people weigh in with the revelation that this technology has been on PC's for a few years?

Look, we get it, ok? If you don't have anything meaningful to add here, why not go back to looking for a job rather than clutter up the forums with mindless repetition. I for one would much rather read 10 posts by people with intelligent things to say than have to sift through 49 posts of mindless repetition posted by people who are likely either wasting company bandwidth or wasting time between porno downloads.

Try thinking for a change. Never mind the pain.

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12/05, 02:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
IP over Firewire

Looks like most everyone is missing the clue. Isn't this the precursor to additional "Digital Lifestyle" devices planned by Apple? Electronics vendors are already planning for Firewire to be the interconnect standard. All electronic devices will become peers in the Rendevous network. Your stereo receiver connecting to your DVD player connecting to your television connecting to your Mac connecting to your Tivo (or next Apple product I predict).

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12/05, 06:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Use it in Win2000

Use to edit video in windows 2000. So this is recycled news.

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12/05, 09:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
hm

has someone used this?

http://www.unibrain.com/1394_products/1394_networking/firenet_mac.htm

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12/05, 11:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
re Max FW Cable Length

Max cable length is 15 feet(4.5 meters) without a repeater - not 10 meters. I've seen claims of 40 km with fibre optic transceivers.

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Apple software supports TCP/IP over FireWire

updated 12:25 pm EST, Wed December 4, 2002

Related Articles

Recent Articles

WOW!!!!

HOLY SH*T!!

RIP USB2 as competitor

next step:

Anyone remember...

Please don't hit me agai

Re: HOLY SH*T!!

Sorry...

Just OS X?

FireNET

About Time!

sony did it a while ago

windows can do it, but

The best part...

so what if windows can...

so...

iPod as network peer

dorks

Okay, so Apple not first

So what!?

Upgrading Preview release

Firewire2

Re: FireWire Devices

Max FW Cable Length

re: FireWire Devices

apple had a dev of this

only advantage to FW/IP

Re: Firewire devices

re: Firewire devices

Re: iPod as network peer

WinXP had this built-in

Zealots...

sheesh

Having cake, eating same

silly sheep

Re: Firewire devices

Re: silly sheep

Don't bash widows Firewi

Re

Rendezvous and uPnP

Screen posts?

PCs and FireWire

help!

help!

Joking?

fw is here to stay

Remove the kernel exensio

computing farm

this is NOT apple's inve

I know�

IP over Firewire

Use it in Win2000

hm

re Max FW Cable Length

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