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Apple pulls all iPods from stores in France

updated 03:25 pm EDT, Mon September 30, 2002

iPods pulled in France

Apple has pulled all iPods from the stores in France in order to bring the device into compliance with a French law that requries audio devices to output a maximum of 100 decibels (versus other parts of Europe, which mandate a 104 db maximum). Apple is expected to release firmware update on October 8th to bring existing iPods into compliance with the French regulation, according to MacGeneration.

by MacNN Staff

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09/30, 03:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dumb

Stupid French law. If someone wants to listen to 100+db sound, why not let them? Idiots

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09/30, 03:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
DB Level

What DB level does it clock in at now? Anyone know? Because I've blown out 3 pairs of Apple earbuds already.. is that due to DB or shotty design?

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09/30, 03:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
In a word (or two)..

the French!

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09/30, 03:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: In a word (or two)..

Apple should include an MP3 of Rowan Atkinson's "That's why I hate the French" on every iPod sold in France.

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09/30, 03:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: DB level

The iPod is now at or below 104db.

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09/30, 03:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
A line is a line.....but

If the limit is 100 then 104 is 4 too many. No biggie there. What's dumb is that the French have to draw the line at exactly 100 which is totally dumb. The limit should be what works best not what just happens to be exactly 100. No wonder lbs and ounces drives them insane.

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09/30, 03:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
I would guess that it...

Goes to at least 104db. However, you would only get that if you turn the iPods sound all the way up. If you use the Max Volume setting all the time, you may want to get something other than ear buds. I find them to delicate plus they are directly in your ear you are risking permenant hearing loss.

[Any important information has been removed for your protection]

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09/30, 03:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
What's next...

All Euro iPods must be designed to only play mind-wasting techno/trance/electronica from all-Euro artists?

An iPod that erases all Eminem MP3s?

An iPod that constantly reminds you that it was made by an American company and therefore is inferior to proper Euro-designed music players?

I know - a 100% recyclable iPod made from bio-degradeable plastic and used soda bottles that will melt the first time it gets wet!

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09/30, 03:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bass

I know that the first earbuds, of which I destroyed 2 sets, had problems with heavy bass.. but the newer ones, of which I've already destryed 1 pair, I thought were supposed to handle it better.. At least, that's what I thought apple said on the site..

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09/30, 03:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
what do you expect?

this is france after all. they are completely socialist, anti-semetic, attempting to squash everyone's personal freedoms.
you couldnt pay me to visit those socialist b*******. they will not stop until they have regulated every part of their citizens' lives. sort of like what the democratic party is after; want to fix a problem? regulate it away. make laws to fix it since the public is too stupid to work it out. how worthless both are.

france sucks.

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09/30, 03:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
i hate france

france sucks. french people suck. they stink. literally.

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09/30, 03:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: what do you expect

Can't argue with you there. You are dead on.

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09/30, 03:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: what do you expect

What a loser you are. France, the mortal enemy of us brits, have alot more polital sense than America, especially right now, which is showing itself as a real facist state.

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09/30, 03:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
distortion

is what usually destroys speakers, probably the sam is true for these, unless maybe they weren't made to handle the amount of watts that the iPod can put out, which would be saying BAD design. Then again, if it is from distortion, then its from a not so high quality amplifier, take your pick.

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09/30, 03:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
TRUE

France, the mortal enemy of us brits, have alot more polital sense than America, especially right now, which is showing itself as a real facist state.

I agree with the above statement. Bush is landing us in a heap of trouble, too bad he doesn't spend as much time on the economy as on the war effort. He's just like his dad, I'm glad I never voted for him, but then he didn't win by popular vote, just electoral vote.

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09/30, 03:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bass

I know that the first earbuds, of which I destroyed 2 sets, had problems with heavy bass.. but the newer ones, of which I've already destryed 1 pair, I thought were supposed to handle it better.. At least, that's what I thought apple said on the site..

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09/30, 03:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: TRUE

Bush wasn't elected by the people. He was appointed by a partisan Supreme Court.

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09/30, 03:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Worse

Bush is worse than his father. I know, a thin line, but still...

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09/30, 03:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
stupid

stupid apple-fascists!

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09/30, 03:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Guys...

Enough with the Anti-French c***. I'm American, and how snobby can WE get? Just get over it. So our iPods will be limited to 100dB instead of 104. Do you guys realize that prolonged exposure to noises over 95dB can result in hearing damage? OSHA allows a maximum of 2 hours daily for consistent noise at 100dB and it drops steeply to ONE hour daily for 105dB. It's only being done for our safety, so stop complaining. If you guys go deaf, how will we be able to yell at you to not do other stupid stuff to yourself?

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09/30, 03:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: TRUE

Keep telling yourself that, mmmkay. *Sure* it was forged and the Bush's brother was the only one rigging ballots. Oh WHO wanted to nullify all ballots from the service guys?

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09/30, 03:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
predictable

Guys, the France bashing is predictable and quite lame. You are only showing your own ignorance.

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09/30, 04:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Facism

"France, the mortal enemy of us brits, have alot more polital sense than America, especially right now, which is showing itself as a real facist state."

First of all, it's "fascist". "Facism" is discrimination on the basis of faces. Fascist states are dictatorships with strict socioeconomic control and centralization. America's a democratic republic with one of the most laissez-faire attitudes toward free enterprise in the world, so I fail to see how it fits the description.

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09/30, 04:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Idiot complainers!

Geez, you people aren't satisfied unless you are complaining about something! How many of you listen to your iPods at greater than 100dB? DOes this really matter to you that much?

If you do listen to your iPod that loud, then you're stupid as you will probably go deaf.

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09/30, 04:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:true

If you look at history all wars that the US has fought in has helped the economy.

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09/30, 04:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
America sucks...

... but they build great mp3-player.

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09/30, 04:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
dB

just so you know...every 3 dB doubles the sound energy.

it is a logarithmic scale.

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09/30, 04:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Man!

there is some love here. You guys are entertaining for the rest of us.
Keep up the good work.

And remember to 'not use a corkscrew to open a bottle of champagne'......

villa

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09/30, 04:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
to the peckerwood...

who denounced socialism and France and the Democratic party of the USA and and and...

go f*** yourself, idiot. climb back under your rock and stay there, do the world a favor.

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09/30, 04:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Travel must be fun

So does France allow Airplanes to fly over their country or are they too loud too?

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09/30, 04:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
100dB

Why does France limit consumer devices to 100dB? So as not to interrupt the German army's beauty sleep?

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09/30, 04:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
if a frenchman wants to

listen to 104 dB all they have to do is install a different firmware. big whoop. the only problem is you won't be able to get yr iPod update via Software Update anymore and will have to go to the apple site to download it.

pulling the ipods and rewriting the firmware for the French market is a nice move on apple's part.

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09/30, 04:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
move!

Have you stupid folks ever left your (US-)country? You are as stupid and ignorant as your president.
You haven't seen the world!
You don' t know what you are talking about!
Take your iPod, your TiBook, your Rucksack and come over to europe for a visit but - please - leave your missiles and bombs at home!

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09/30, 04:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
idiots

loads and loads of idiots on this board. well done guys.

Im hoping its just a load of buck toothed 14year old geeks who have no clue about anything, and not actual grown adults who (if in the US) have guns in their possession...

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09/30, 04:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hope it's packaged with

bar of soap. And directions for it's daily use. Why do the French smell so awful? I am serious. Do French parents just skip hygiene when bringing up their kids?

Liberte, Egalite, Body Odor! Vive la Stink!

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09/30, 04:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Um...

[i]If you look at history all wars that the US has fought in has helped the economy.[/i]

The economy tanked right through and after Bush Sr's war.

The Bush's have figured out that wars are easier to manage than the economy. Dubya has learned to time his wars better for the election.

He'll need another war in 2004. Maybe then it'll be France.

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09/30, 04:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
I hope it comes with a

bar of soap. And directions for it's daily use. Why do the French smell so awful? I am serious. Do French parents just skip hygiene when bringing up their kids?

Liberte, Egalite, Body Odor! Vive la Stink!

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09/30, 04:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
a few salient points

why not have the iPod at 104db? Could it be to bring it up to line level? if so good. i cant imagine that there isnt one person out there hooking their pod up to their car or home stereo.

why do you need a government making laws about how loud you can lsiten to something? If people want to destroy their hearing fine. why all this intrusion into their lives? its unnecessary.

yes, france is socialist. so what? i dont care for them anyway one way or another.

this firmware may be FRENCH ONLY. you can always download a localized version of the frimware (I HOPE). for those of us that dont want crippled hardware because of the bitching of a bunch of frogs, you can grab the english or engl-int version.

is this so hard. all this because of france?

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09/30, 04:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Stupid Laws

Every country has their stupid laws so I wouldn't be so quick to criticize France, remember the stupid laws are the ones you don�t know about, because the ones you do know about are the important ones.

As for choice of music, everyone has their own preference so.

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09/30, 04:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
line level

someone else posted this, but is that 104 for line level? car/home stereo use?

why does the french govt even have a say in this? cant this be left up to people or does their government not trust them?

im with the other guys, this is ridiculous. too much legislating

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09/30, 04:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
france sucks

why dont they just roll over and surrendor like they did in WWII. bunch of pussies

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09/30, 04:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Mac users dumber ???

Mac users used to be smarter than Windows ones...Unfortunatly it's not true anymore :(

I'm sorry but some US people should travel a little bit outside their country !

First of all, France is not socialist for months, even for years !

Then, it's Apple's fault who didn't follow French law ! They should have done that one year ago ! But they don't give a f.... about Europe, this is one consequence of that attitude.

By the way, 100 db is loud, anything above 95 db can damage your ears. No one listen to 100 db anyway, it's too loud. This law is a good thing because many teenagers are almost deaf.

And if you live in France and want to listen to your ipod at 104 db, don't update your firmware or use a US one !!!

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09/30, 04:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Mais c'est vrai !

Je suis un Fran�ais stinky et je ne peux pas entendre parce que je jouais la musique am�ricaine forte de rock ! :)

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09/30, 04:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod laser engraving

I wonder if I can get my iPod engraved with Wellington's Regimental Seal of "two dead Frenchmen crossed over a field of dead Frenchmen."

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09/30, 04:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:Mac users dumber ???

Well, Macs are easy to use. So it's no great deal to find stupid MacUsers. :-)

But I'm dissapointed from this discussion, too.

Manche Amis sind eben leider ziemlich arrogant und verbloedet! tr�s stupide! d'accord?

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09/30, 04:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Mac users dumber ???

Dumber?? That's not a word!

I agree there are some dumb people who post on here.

But I also think the French are generally rude to Americans. And I'm part French.

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09/30, 05:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
At least in France,

you can legally get a beer before going off to die for your politician's ego.

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09/30, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not surprising

But I also think the French are generally rude to Americans. And I'm part French.

The French are most rude to the "part French."

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09/30, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
to the idot

who said: french people suck. they stink. literally.

man, you are an idiot. or should i just say, man you are an american.

we are not the one destroying the planet. i am so tired of arogant dumbass american like you who doesn't have any respect for anything else than yourself. after you come to us asking for our human lives just so your president can play a game of 'real life risk'.

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09/30, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
Silly

If all it takes is a firmware update, kiddies will circumvent it by installing the US version of the firmware the minute they open the box... A silly law indeed.
There are plenty of good laws in France though. Like the one that requires all manufacturers to cover their equipment, parts and labor, for 2 years. Over here we have to make do with whatever they think they can get away with, typically 3 months P&L and 1 year parts.
Or like decent health care. See, it's not all as black and white as you guys make it out to be.
However I'll have to agree with the posters who commented on the French grooming habits. We probably should parachute soap, deodorant and toothbrushes there.

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09/30, 05:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
dududu!

dumb, dumber, the dumbest!

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09/30, 05:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Germany please do us all

a favor and take France back. It'll be really easy, they're big pussies. And besides, you've done it before. America and the Brits won't care. France is no longer an ally. But bring your gas masks. The odor is overpowering.

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09/30, 05:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
One european thought

Somebody wrote: "If people want to destroy their hearing fine. why all this intrusion into their lives?"

In nearly every country in europe we have payed high tax and the benefit from that is that when we come to the hospital deaf from using our iPod the "state" pays for the help or operation, not YOU as a person. That�s a very god reason to have set a limit to the output sound. So states like Sweden (there I live) doesn�t have to spend to much money.

- Olle Jonsson
// - sorry for my poor english \

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09/30, 05:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
Arrogant fools....

Yes, some of the people on these boards really should go see the rest of the world; or at least go read a little about it, and not through your media (which seems to often give a one-seded view of things).
Didn't they help you during the war of independance ? Go look under Lafayette.... How things are easily forgotten when it suits you. Some of you might hate the rest of the world, but attitude such as those makes you hated in the rest of the world.

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09/30, 05:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
The French don't

have to shower three times a day because they aren't frightened of their own bodies the way Americans are.

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09/30, 05:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
what you meant to say is

"A dog (or frog) likes the smell of it's own s***." So why bathe when you can smell like s*** all the time!

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You can't blame American

for being frightened of their bodies... 150kg is very frightening.

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09/30, 05:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
150kg...

of junk too. You are what you eat...LOL. Can't smell too good either !

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09/30, 05:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
greetings from germany...

...to the new romans:

Have a nice Einst�rzende Neubauten Song at 104 db if you like it!
You probably never come to france, nether buy an iPod over here in europe.

Remember: iPod, youPod, we all Pod for iPod!
:-)

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09/30, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
go see the world?

Ive been to france. dirty city, art whores, stinky populace, RUDE to everyone. suck it france, you aren't anything to sneeeze at.

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09/30, 06:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
go see the world?

Ive been to france. dirty city, art whores, stinky populace, RUDE to everyone. suck it france, you aren't anything to sneeeze at.

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09/30, 06:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
take the art from france

and you're left with nothing but a city full of euro-trash jew haters. big deal, go to Italy were people are smart and nice. they have a rich history and are generally better people all the way around. France could sink into nothing and i wouldnt care. Italy on the other hand, DROOL!

plus the french will surrendor to anything that moves so go over there with a riffle and take them over switzerland.

:)

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09/30, 06:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
What is their reasoning

I wonder why the French have the 100 db limit? Do we have a db upper limit on iPods sold in the USA?

I can understand having a decible limit on sound coming out of speakers, other than earphones, so as not to disturb others. No limit on the amplifier, just the sound that others can hear, it would let people destroy their own hearing while saving the hearing of innocents. Here (pun intended) in San Diego we have regulation of that type for auto sound systems that as far as I am concerned is not enforced enough.

Whatever, it is the concern of French citizens

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09/30, 06:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
thats not the point

it should be an individuals choice; does it require a law? no. theres no excuse for that

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09/30, 06:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Stupid frogs

You heard me!

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09/30, 06:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
f*** you german boy

you germans are pussies as well. f*** you man,

quote: Einst�rzende Neubauten

i know german and you sir are a gold plated a** hole. i hope you arent the reason france stinks but i suspect otherwise.

everyone would do well to translate that little phrase since he basically mocks 9/11. i say f*** him

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09/30, 06:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Headline should read

iPod too Loud for the French!

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09/30, 06:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
well im not surprised

the french have never been ones to do well with scary stuff such as an army, jewish people, and loud noises.

wussy should be changed to frenchy

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09/30, 06:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Why the Upper Limit

In the iPod booklet entitled "iPod User's Guide" page 13 it says...

"Avoid hearing damage

Warning Permanent hearing loss may occur if earphones or headphones are used at high volume. You can adapt over time to a higher volume of sound, which may sound normal but can be damaging to your hearing. Set your iPods's volume to a safe level before that happens. If you experience ringing in your ears, reduce the volume or discontinue use or your iPod."

"You can adapt over time to a higher volume of sound, which may sound normal but can be damaging to your hearing."

So suppose you being the idiot your are decide "I'm going to listen to my iPod at 104db, because your ears adapt, it sounds find to you. One day go deaf well in France as someone pointed out they have healthcare paid for by the Government now if they had a couple hundred thousand people go deaf that would tax the healthcare system don't you think?

It's preventative measures taken to save the people money and hearing in this case. Why do you ask should the government do this instead of letting people choose, they have a right to go deaf you say? (refer back to health care point) Well because we have stupid people on this planet too. Laws are written for stupid people, smart people have common sense. Also it's not just the iPod it's every audio device.

A good info site is... http://www.headwize.com/articles/hearing_art.htm

Compairs different db to different daily sounds.

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09/30, 06:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Grow up

Wow! This list of messages is impressive reading. Which country is going to get bashed next? What about a car make or coke or pepsi or whatever. The seemingly random character of this is scary. Are you really serious about this? Grow up guys!!!

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09/30, 07:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
pepsi sucks

i bet french people drink it

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09/30, 07:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
hmmm

so you're saying that their socialized health care money should not be wasted. why dont they bust the ecstasy manufacturers there, who hook the candy kids. seems a little more important than this petty s***. if you dont have enough sense to listen at a reasonable volume you are an idiot anyway so the point is moot.

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09/30, 07:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
oh yeah

well coke sucks i bet capitalist pigs drinks coke

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09/30, 07:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
ecstasy

WTF? why are we knocking E? I love E, so come on we should all take some and reconcile the differences.

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09/30, 07:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Read the whole caption

You all seem to be forgetting that this limit exists in the rest of Europe and probably the rest of the world, too. The difference here is that in France it is 100 db while in the rest of Europe it is 104 db. Thus, the basis for arguments about France's government controlling everything are unfounded.

Argue the difference between 100 and 104 if you must (which is a stupid argument at best) but stop the ignorant anti-French (or general anti-non-US) sentiment and incorrect claims that France is unique in this law.

As for me, I am Canadian and have never been to Europe. However, I have been to the US and days like this remind me why I only went once.

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09/30, 07:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Good Lord...

What a bunch of petty whiners.

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09/30, 07:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
?

Was this a rounding error?

Oh, socialism sucks and so does central control...

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09/30, 07:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
slurp!

champagne sucks!
Let's have Coke all over the world! It's our right! It's worth it! It's our way of life! f*** the french! f*** them all! f*** for db! Give us sugar!

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09/30, 07:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: hmmm

=========================================================
hmmm

so you're saying that their socialized health care money should not be wasted. why dont they bust the ecstasy manufacturers there, who hook the candy kids. seems a little more important than this petty s***. if you dont have enough sense to listen at a reasonable volume you are an idiot anyway so the point is moot.
======================================================

Because legal "companies" like Apple have a known address, office, and telephone number etc... It's alot easier to enforce laws on legal companies as opposed to illegal ones I'm sure the French police are doing their best to control the drug situation they have.

That�s right I forgot Americans don't make illegal drugs they just buy them =)

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09/30, 07:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
woohoo

speaking as a consumer of said drugs: yes we just buy them. thats what we do, we're a bored super power. whatever viva la ecstasy!

i had a good time this weekend with two little pills full of joy.

but honestly it is like splitting hairs over 4 db. who are you helping? no one really, 100 is still loud, and the audiophiles will be mad about this.

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09/30, 07:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
x is good

gimmie a couple hits of x and an ipod and i'll be just fine, drinkin my coke and laughing at what a mighty nation we are compared to the rest of the world. dont like us, try and stop us...i'd especially like to see france try, they will show their belly for anything threatening i.e. a june bug.

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09/30, 07:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
decibals or deciballs?

hmm

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09/30, 07:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wow.

I can't believe it. This has to be the absolute worst message board I've ever seen, Period. The amount of hate-rhetoric being thrown around is unbelieveable. And for something as mundane as Decibal limits? Geez people, what the h*** does that have to do with socialism, anti-semitism, anti-french, ant-american, anti-anything? (The correct answer is: nothing). Some people's basic facts are so far our of whack that it kills me (as a Political Science and Rhetoric major at the #1 rated public university in America) to read it! It's one thing to hold to one's opinion; that's fine. But at least do it with a solid set of facts! (No, France has never had a true socialist government - try President driven parliament).

Anyway, I'll take French drinking laws over American ones any day! ha!

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09/30, 07:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yes, period, please!

.

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09/30, 08:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
Simply Amazing

It's amazing the depth of idiocy that a Mac non-news story can generate on this board!

If the majority of views expressed here are representative of the new Mac digerati and the general populace in general, I am selling the rest of my stock in the human race. Simply pathetic.

Thank you children, I'm now ashamed to be a Mac user, an American AND a human.

ON TOPIC: Isn't technology a great thing, with the advent of upgradable firmware, control and command instructions can be easily modified by the user. Thus resulting in a better and more flexible product.

When the codecs for AAC/MP4 and perhaps even Ogg Vorbis are released for the iPod (as one of the listed features on the product literature) I wonder if we can look forward to another international flame war here on Mac/ ?

People, pour yourselves a nice glass of Bordeaux and relax.
(French drinking laws strictly enforced)

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09/30, 08:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
STFU collge boy

ok mister college edu-ma-cated, you are SO smart. arent we all just pale in comparison to your visage. and here i am with my petty bachelors degree. dur me stoopid, blah. french has a DECIDELY socialist bent in PRACTICE regardless of their governmental arrangement you dolt, why not check the LAWS they pass. its like saying we are a democracy, when we are closer to a representative democratic republic. well most of the time. If we were a democracy there would be no representatives in washington. BUT LOOK OUT! mister teen angst is all upset because he cant drink yet. Go to France where 18 year olds can drink thats fine. and suffer under their oppressive laws. im sure you'll be happy.

i know I am.

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09/30, 08:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: whatever

Thank you children, I'm now ashamed to be a Mac user, an American AND a human..

that does it, you are officially a loser, you dont deserve your freedoms if you get ashamed that quickly.

well I'm sorry, I have some pretty conservative view points and I am shocked by both sides of this argument. epsecially those claiming to be of my vieawpoint. yes france is more liberal but that's france. its not America and it never will be. thats good for me.

I am also still very proud to be an American, and proud to be a Mac user. yes, I'm even proud to be human, the fact that we even engage in spirited debates at all, gotta love reasoning.

but to h*** with this bullshit. yes that is what it is. shame on all of you for being so petty, and as one of the others put it 'splitting hairs.'

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09/30, 08:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
pepsi sucks

just wanted to post something intelligent here

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09/30, 08:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
anyone seen invader zim?

i'll have a large classic p*** please!

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09/30, 09:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: STFU collge boy

Oh I know I'm intelligent my friend; I've been educated by the best Higher Education system in the world (in the Good ol' USA). Seeing that I currently studying European politics (trying to erase the ignorance from my mind that I gained while traveling there last summer) I would like to believe that I have a fair understanding of their complicated political system. But just for you, here's a quick lesson; The French political system, like most other European democracies, is a parliamentary system. They have a prime minister and a strong president. Since the aftermath of WW2, and the failure of the 4th Republic to deal with the Algerian crisis, the current 5th Republic has gone through a series of changes. It's been led by many different coalitions; Mainly the Gaullist or neo-Gaullist center-right (Chirac today) or New "Socialist" center-right (Jospin). I put socialist in quotation marks because in reality, they are far from it. Most of the left leaning ruling parties in Europe are a far cry from the marxist-leninist parties they rarely received above 25% of the popular vote. Indeed, most "socialist" parties in Europe (Labor in Britain included) have abandoned the traditional support of workers for middle-class citizens (Like most of us, I imagine). Various theories try and answer why their has been a push toward the center (Anthony Downs has one, for instance), suffice to say, most major European parties have gone for the center. Anyway, whether the ruling party (or more correctly, ruling coaltion) is center-right or center-left, they have nonetheless accepted that the government has a role in the economy. In effect, they have instituted a pseudo-keynesian economic system. Now, Keynesianism went out of favor among governments in the 70's, so there has been a push towards more of a "free-market" system. Still, Most European countries, France included, still make sure to have a sizeable social benefit system for its citizens; health care, unemployment benefits, education, etc. This may be what you are confusing as "socialist bent in practice." Your comment on American being a representative democracy is more or less dead on, if not a little irrelevant. For you see, France is SOCIAL DEMOCRACY. Hence, they have laws can be more sweeping in nature, compared to certain laws in America. Still, it would be very foolish to think that America is any way shape or form Purely Laissez-faire; what the h*** do you think the FDA, FCC, and anti-trust laws do?

In any case, my few days spent in Paris were wonderful if difficult because I didn't speak French. Beautiful city, very nice people over all, and as for their "oppresive laws;"...I must have just missed them. Damn.

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09/30, 09:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
what?

so two college guys are fighting on this post? damn let me throw in with my state education if I'm worthy (start the wayne's world screams!). so i find myself in the company of a globe trotter, and some other university snoot. what did i miss? i also want to know what universities both of you went to, especially the guy doing the brag c***. if either one of you says harvard/yale/NYU (any easter sea-board school), you are automatically discredited. why? because those universities harbor the biggest hatred for america I've ever seen, and so naturally you are both splitting hairs.

this is a garbage thread

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09/30, 09:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
nice people?

did you go to Paris Texas? they have lots of nice people in texas, so that must be it. Did we even go to the same Paris? the paris i went to (in France) was anti-american among other things. they do nothing but hate. who mentioned italy, yeah france is a wannabe italy. those guys are damned nice and will bend over backwards for you

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09/30, 09:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: what?

I would have to agree with you. This is a garbage thread, but I just wanted to share the little bit o' knowledge that I gained so far in my three years at Cal Berkeley. And please save me the "Oh My God, he must be a bomb throwing Ultra radical anti-american godless b****** because he goes to a liberal school" Bull. Trust me, I read enough about it in our Campus Republican paper. Not that it should matter where I go; I know plenty of people back home in the Central Valley of California who are at least as smart as some of the supposed "Elite" here at UCB. Nonetheless, I also happen to know some of the brightest people around...thankfully they are studying physics...something that can't possibly hurt anyone, like studying politics can! hahaha....As it happens, Berkeley has some Amazing professors, who truly know their proverbial s***. No kidding. In the end, you are absolutely right; we are doing the ultimate in useless hair-splitting; that was the point of my first post (WOW).

And thus; What difference does it Really Make to You� (in the general) whether the French have a 100 dB limit versus 104db? And how does this reflect on their system of government or economics? If anyone can answer that, I'll send in my transfer papers to their school ASAP.

Cheers everyone!

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09/30, 09:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
What? Huh?

What? Huh? Eh? Pardon?

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09/30, 09:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
wouach ...

As a French, i've just read all this board. I hope for the US country the ones who writes theses messages are under thirteen. Perhaps we don't like the American society, but we don't hate American guys. We don't like to see one flag to rule the world. We don't like to see Coke or MacDonald devasting our heart. We don't like to see people dying only because your president is someone who doesn't understand why four flies missed the airport one year before.

And please, take a plane to France, wherever you want. Paris is not the whole France.

And, please, don't say our laws are against the freedom. It can save hears.

I hope you'll understand. And, don't forget to take a plane to visit the world.

(it was about iPod ? oh, sorry)

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09/30, 09:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
hm

Lots of people are anti american, its because since the 60s America (the govt) has put its nose in countless places where it had no business, its been the cause of many undeclared wars and human rights violations, its backed known war criminals and more. The problem is while 99%+ of the american people dont know these facts because of the propaganda engine in the news and media here, these things did and are happening, and so when we visit abroad, many people are far from welcoming.

If the original constitution was followed more, and the average American was typical of its world policies, then you'd fine the rest of the world to be much kinder to us all.

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09/30, 09:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
ahh

i went to a damned state school too, so i must suck compared to whoever that guy was going to the best bla bla bla school. keep it up mr im so cool. anyway am i correct to interpret the thread thus:

france regulates consumer personal devices at a lower rate than its american counterpart. what is the problem, one just has a stricter standard. we regulate it as well. (as for it being necessary in either country, thats open to argument). come to think of it, Cali has more stringent emmissions for cars than other states, does that make them socialist? no not really.

but then again I may just be missing the point of this argument betrween you two ivy league jerks since i have that S***** state education.

cheers! Ive given the deffinitive word.

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09/30, 10:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: ahh

Now this is just getting too funny...really, just entertaing! Cal as an ivy league? Not a chance in h***, thank you! You too are absolutely right about the regulation of consumer goods. About the S***** state education thing, I might take offense; I am being educated a public, state-run school, after-all. h*** of a deal, if you ask me!

maybe we should invite Chris Matthews here?

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09/30, 10:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
lbs. and ounces? WTF?

"No wonder lbs and ounces drives them insane. " To the idiot that said this: you are an I-G-N-O-R-A-M-O-U-S. What do lbs and ounces have to do with the volume of a frickin' music player? And besides, we should be applauding the Europeans for using the metric system instead of the primitive and long outdated system we use here in the US. The metric system is to the English standard system what the Mac is to Windows. So we should be following suit, not criticizing them for it (and second of all this was completely out-of-context and unrelated... idiot).

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09/30, 10:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Politics pod

>Lots of people are anti american

No, not anti american, anti-BUSH. that a****** is destroying the environement, wants to start a war for his own pleasure... that's serious. he's playing with lives. he doesn't care about breaking families... it's hard loosing a brother or sister, your mom, dad and he wants to do that to thousands of people (americans and arabs).

that guy is a moron. i am not an anti-american, i just wich the pretzel wins next time he choke on it, it's too dangerous for the world that he can breath.

and i'm not a europeen, i'm from quebec. we aren't brainwash as much in our news paper and media because we are more neutral. so we are more like europe than you. we are more human, more sensitive to people... we don't hate you, you are just fools anyway for your president, we hate him and his system.

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10/01, 12:09am | report spam | close Reply |
I'm thinkin ............

that to many people have way to much time on their hands. But here is my two cents .......

Most of the posts are from high school males (generally a very angry bunch). The people claiming to be college students are either freshmen or sophomore which is a very email step up from a high school dweeb. I got two masters degrees and that doesn't mean I'm smarter than anybody else but it does give me some perspective on how dumb a** some people can be. It don't get much worse than what you are seeing in this thread.

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10/01, 12:16am | report spam | close Reply |
Healthcare and France

France IS as socialist country. And the US is heading there as well. The LAWS they pass are socialist. The structure of the government doesn't matter. Heck, the USSR had a written Constitution, yet they were communist. That's because the gov't regulated business and did wealth transfers. In fact, there isn't one country that is not touch by socialism. Its sad really.

As for hearing and healthcare: The major problem with national health care is that many people pay for the mistakes of a few. If we had a true free market health care system, everybody could pay for their OWN mistakes, and everybody could be covered, for a very cheap price.

As for Bush, of course he wants a war: he is a statist, and a socialist-lite. He is just as bad as Clinton or Gore. I'm ashamed to have voted for him. Both parties use the power of government to enrich themselves and their followers.

As for the environment, Bush isn't trying to destroy it. You confuse actually destroying the environment and disagreeing how the environment should be preserved. The best way to preserve the environment is private property. Get gov't out of the environmental protection racket and let the market save it.

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10/01, 12:23am | report spam | close Reply |
Einsturzende Neubauten

to whomever it was who claimed the above phrase was making a mockery of the 11 SEP 2001 attacks, you misunderstood the original poster's point. Einsturzende Neubauten is a german band which dates back to the 80s. Granted, the name translates to "collapsing new buildings" (or something similar... the "new buildings" part applying to post-WWII buildings in Germany).

Take a few minutes to listen to the music and you will appreciate the humor of recommending Einsturzende Neubauten at 104dB with headphones. :) electric drills on metal and various grinding machines are among the instrumentation used by the band.

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10/01, 01:30am | report spam | close Reply |
Oppressive laws

DMCA

'nuff said.

Keep up your excellent path towards destroying the internet under the pretence that you will be protected from terrorists.

You don't need protection from terrorists. You need protection from yourselves. And your bottom-feeding President.

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10/01, 01:44am | report spam | close Reply |
re: Too Serious People

In Order:

so�cial�ism

NOUN:
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. 2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

There is our working definition of socialism from Sherlock 3. Now, most countries, yes even Good ol' US of A, has businesses that are publically owned. In that sense we have "socialist-like" tendancies. Next, does the "central government," aka, our government or that of the French, plan? Well, the French did...and may still do so. The US, most certainly does not. The structure of the government matters much more than you think! Much, much more! A written constitution does not a socialist (or communist, or democratic, or social democratic) state make. To compare their written constitution with ours would be foolish. Government regulation of business has been going on in the US since...damn, FOR EVER. It became especially heavy during the 19th century. Since then, the US economy has taken on more of a Keynesian approach with lots of free enterprise mixed in (John Maynard Keynes; look him up if you don't know him). What exactly do you mean by wealth transfers? Russia didn't exactly have a whole lot of wealth to transer in the 1917 Revolution eh? Your disdain for socialism I respect; it is your right to state your opinion, and I Fully back your ability to say it! It seems to me that you are a h*** of a libertarian (or Republican in the wrong party!) so any discussions on the merits of national health care or public education will fall on deaf ears with you. Fair enough.

Bush is a fool; simple enough. That wouldn't be bad, except he is a fool that was taken seriously. Too bad for us. I'm quite sure though, that the "magic market" (that worked so utterly well during oh, say, 1929) well...it could use a referee (the government).

As a matter of speculation, I imagine that most of these posters are younger lads. And, as one of those "claiming to be a college student," I can state firmly that I am actually a third year student. No, seriously. Yes, I can even tie my shoes by myself too. I don't claim to be smarter than the world; I know far too many people who live in my house who are far smarter than me to make such a grandiose claim. But I'll let you know one thing for sure; that after spending nearly 60 grand at the end of 4 years, I better be smarter than at least someone on this freakin' thread, or I'm going to demand my money back! HA!

PS. I think my roommate is working on a software program to automatically detect when people are being dumb asses; it should revolutionize your business!

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10/01, 02:02am | report spam | close Reply |
As a free woman...

I am horrified to see young men who have been made so arrogant, and twisted so much, by our great institutions of "higher education" that they would have the temerity (yes, I can use big words, too) to attack the very freedoms that allow them to have their fancy educations. Someone mentioned hair-splitting earlier -- well, there you have it: socialism is socialism. Or, as may be politically incorrect to say these days, Reds are Reds. I don't believe that France is an entirely god-forsaken country, but I do know that their citizens have had to bear a much more burdensome government even than ours. I mean, come on -- a 75% tax rate! Don't these dreaming, solve-everything, liberals realize that government spending isn't free? Sure, it's nice to help green-spotted lobsters get along, but would you take a thousand dollars out of your own pocket to do it? The economics of conservatism make sense, of course -- but that's not what should matter. There was a time when Western Civilization gave merit to the idea of FREEDOM. When a man or woman would be willing to give up a little health, a little convenience, or even a little blood in order to be FREE.

All of this is of course irrelevant. I'm not going to France, and I don't like to listen to music at high volumes, so their new law is no problem for me. But it's certainly not something to put up as an example of good government. What really bothers me is the attitude I see in these "college boys". For Pete's sake, did either of your parents ever take you to Church? Were you ever given the slightest bit of discipline. This combination of cowardice and arrogance has put our country in both external (i.e. Saddam Hussein) and internal (i.e. rampant sexual degeneration) danger. Please, please -- take some time to listen to your parents. See how the world works, and be humble. In twenty years, maybe you won't be so eager to force your ideas onto the rest of the world.

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10/01, 02:17am | report spam | close Reply |
Last word .....

The French, a country that saw a SNAIL and said boy I'll bet that's tasty. Remember even Al Bundy hates the French. Oh no we pissed off the French, who will save us now . Okay no more bagging on them , they might throw a crepe at us or send a hairy arm pitted woman our way.

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10/01, 02:52am | report spam | close Reply |
iPods

Did someone say something about iPods?

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10/01, 03:02am | report spam | close Reply |
decibals

I think something about decibals and ipods. yeh. Maybe.

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10/01, 04:16am | report spam | close Reply |
Poor americans...

Poor americans... Reading this thread I feel sorry for some of you guys.

No brain, no pain, right?

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10/01, 05:03am | report spam | close Reply |
Right-Wing losers

"As for the environment, Bush isn't trying to destroy it. You confuse actually destroying the environment and disagreeing how the environment should be preserved. The best way to preserve the environment is private property. Get gov't out of the environmental protection racket and let the market save it."

This is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard anyone say. Makes me ashamed to use a Mac.

The idea that the free market or the corporate state values anyone's personal freedoms is so ridiculous. Sure, you have the freedom to consume certain "goods", but beyond that your freedoms aren't much greater in the US than in Europe. Although, at least in the US a person without health insurance has the freedom to die. In France they would have to go get government-provided health care.

I still fail to see how it is more "FREE" to have corporations pay for health insurance than to have the government pay. Seems to me that business, especially small business, would be less burdened and more competitive if the government paid for health insurance.

What I'm mostly seeing here is an abundance of selfishness. Too many arrogant, ignorant Americans today are too selfish. By virtue of being spoiled as children, they have no compassion for those less fortunate or less gifted. The pendulum will swing the other way after a good, long war that kills tens or hundreds of thousands of American boyz, it seems that's what it takes to make most Americans realize how good they have it--and why it's things like compassion and empathy that separates humans from animals. If you just want to look out for yourself, then you're no different from an animal.

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10/01, 05:32am | report spam | close Reply |
message from a friend

hi guys,i'm a french girl and i have to say i don't wash, i drink budweiser all day watching soccer on TV and i listen to eminem veryyyyy loud.and also,i'm very stupid,and we,french,are all the same!!be careful,we might send you a nuclear bomb if you carry on saying baaaaaaaad things about us!!

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10/01, 06:33am | report spam | close Reply |
Get with it Yanks

I always knew you Americans are some of the most idiotic people on this planet - people speak a different language and have a different government? Well they must be useless wankers, Don't live in America well actually thats all it takes for you guys to think you can start sticking your nose into everything. Start thinking outside your stupid little country, the rest of the world would get on quite fine without you guys and its about time yanks realised that.

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10/01, 06:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Animals, iPod, & France

---and why it's things like compassion and empathy that separates humans from animals. If you just want to look out for yourself, then you're no different from an animal.

You were OK till you got here... the fact is animals are better than people... a loin hunts to eat. A human hunts for a trophy. Consider your friends and your dog who is more loyal?

It is hard to believe the number of responses that have nothing to do with the topic. So lets just ask how many of you who have been dissing France have actuall been there? OK!

Fact 1: I have been to France several times. Lovely place full of great people, fun, beautiful, good food.

Fact 2: Sustained high sound levels do harm hearing.

Fact 3: France is a free country with an elected president (as compared to one who lost the popular election but was appointed by the supreme court 5 to 4) and they can vote in someone to reverse the law in 100 dB iPond if they want.

Fact 4: 104 dB is more than twice as "loud" as 100 dB (3 dB is double) So we are not talking a 4% difference heae as one reader implied.

Fact 5: You can always take the output of your iPod into a huge amp and set a pair of speakers on either side of your head and listen to loud music until your ears bleed in any country.

So if this French debasement of freedom really bothers you you should make it a personal goal to listen to loud music. OK?

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10/01, 07:50am | report spam | close Reply |
Ya gotta love MacNN

Where else can you engage is intellectual intercourse with such learned disinterested adversaries?

Of all the places I've lived, I miss France the most. Many French, especially Parisiens and Cote d'Azure'ans, can be aloof, and almost as ignorant and bigoted as many of my fellow midwesterners.

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10/01, 07:51am | report spam | close Reply |
bloody Freedom!

Your Freedom ist grounded on the blood of billions of dead indians and black slaves. So shut up an put your f****** iPod-headphones on your empty heads!

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10/01, 08:09am | report spam | close Reply |
Where did all the losers

I'm amazed at all the anti-french rage vented here today. What are you guys smoking? I'm not french yet I sometimes eat snails. Yes, with garlic. And some nice wine. And some good cheese. If you're bitching about french food yet you haven't tried any of this, you're an idiot. If you're complaining about french people but haven't been to France, you're an idiot. If you're complaining that France is socialist, you're an idiot. Jaques Chirac is conservative and he faced your fellow idiot (but, alas, not socialist) Jean-Marie le Pen in the elections. If you're complaining about ugly french women, you're either blind or really completely unfuckingbelievably stupid. And an idiot. The only known cure for this is to actually go to France, which, if this has applied to you, neither you nor France deserves.

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10/01, 08:44am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: bloody Freedom!

Not the americans but the europeans(and french)killed the indians when they came to america. So be careful!

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10/01, 09:45am | report spam | close Reply |
untrue

Not true. The French were actually trying to trade with the native. The british and others immigrants had other views since they were trying to find a new place to live.
Besides the US as a country did wage war and exterminated most of the indian tribes.

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10/01, 10:18am | report spam | close Reply |
indians wrong?

So what was the problem with these indian tribes?
What did the indians do wrong?
Why the extermination?
Did they smell, or worse: did they had a tribal law against loud iPods? Did they ate snails?
Wrong Gods?
Wrong Operating System?

Don't Know...
Sorry , I'm just a stupid european...

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10/01, 10:21am | report spam | close Reply |
um

1. Bush doesn't want to destroy the environment, he wants to destroy everything.

2. France limits the ouput to 100db, the US lets the Recording a**. of America purchase laws to keep you from getting your music on your iPod at all.

3. Set the volume adjustment in Get Info... -> Options to +100%.

4. It's bedtime with no dessert for the 13 and under crowd on here.

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10/01, 10:45am | report spam | close Reply |
so what???

i just can't believe of all the c*** i read on this forum!i'm a french girl,not particulary proud of it,cause i don't care very much about being french or american or even an alien...so,let's be clear: some french are ugly,stink,are fascist,and so on so are some american people,so are some italian,some canadian...whatever!just don't put all the people in the same bag,it's so stupid!i just can't understand!!

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10/01, 10:49am | report spam | close Reply |
hahah

I'd rather have a government that isnt supposed to be a real democracy than a government that TELLS YOU its a real democracy when really its a corporate driven dictatorship with a massive propaganda engine to keep on telling you that youre all free and THE BEST IN THE WORLD constantly.

http://www.halturnershow.com/IraqWar.jpg

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10/01, 11:14am | report spam | close Reply |
this and that

1. how many of the hateful frogs on this board have been to america to understand it?

2. we are a hyperpower...and the only one

3. you hate america because we did in 200 years what you didn't do in thousands (and we're stupid too!)

4. it is decibels (not deciballs or decibles)

5. french culture is best summed up by the bidet. why wash your whole body when you can just wash part of it?

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10/01, 11:34am | report spam | close Reply |
Re:this and that

Hahahah! Good Joke!

let's see what is left from your big, beatiful country in thousand years.
If you go on with your american way of life, I guess it will be a poisoned desert in another 100 Years!

US-Gouvernment should better sign the Kyoto-Papers against CO2, than complaining about 3 db less in a french ear!

that's my german opinion!

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10/01, 11:50am | report spam | close Reply |
Funny Americans

You guys have a funny of mixing everything up. What do you care about Apple calling back every iPod in France ?! Mind your own business !
The deal is between Apple and its French customers, THEY are the ones concerned !
I can't understand how impolite some MacNN readers get for such a thing.
A little "update" for some of you :
1. France's government is no more socialist since June but rather Right Wing (nothing to do with US's Republican, though);
2. France is a DEMOCRACY : that is, the guys who voted the "100 dB law" (let's call it this way) where representants of the people. They voted after consulting scientific data about acoustics and ear loss (104 dB is more than double the intensity with 100 dB, we're talking logaritmic scale, here).

Please get informed before posting.

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10/01, 11:51am | report spam | close Reply |
En Fran�ais

C'est quoi ce discourt de raciste ? J'ai l'impression d'�tre dans le Jerry springer show. Et croyez-moi ce n'est pas une �mission tr�s flatteuse pour les am�ricains. Heureusement certaines personnes ont su r�aliser messages de plus d'une phrase sans utiliser de mot grossier. Et gr�ce � eu je me dis, vous n'�tes pas comme dans le Jerry springer show.

Sur ce je vous salut tous et ce sans distinction de pays et de loi sur les decibels

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10/01, 12:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:what do you expect?

You ignorant! France currently has a right-wing government. Read the news.

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10/01, 12:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:this and that

You have no clue of what your country is doing. You guys ditch a country with no good reasons, then go say the US rules the world and all others are morons. Too bad most of you learned nothing from the events of september 11th. Will it take another before you do ? Go read books that explain a bit why what it did happen. When you see all of the info, the sad truth is that it doesn't suprise me anymore (don't get me wrong, I am totally against & terrified by what happened).

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10/01, 05:24pm | report spam | close Reply |
*sigh*

Can all the thirteen year-olds (you know who you are; those who can't spell) please go to bed now? Adults want to use the internet now.

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10/01, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oh Jesus

Good lord people, how can a news posting about Apple recalling a couple of freakin' iPods degrade into nationalist discussion about America vs France/Europe/Rest of world? What the h*** makes Americans think that EVERYTHING the damn US government does is so freakin' great? Likewise, why do you Europeans think you know it all, anyway? Yes, the perfect Europeans have it all down, they always get the bigger picture (no, of course not, they don't make mistakes, and of course they NEVER look out for their own interests. Oh no, they would never stand to benefit from the mid-east oil market.)

To the idiot who posted about the rest of the world not needing America: yeah, right. If America's military forces pulled out from your countries and refused to offer you any help in the event that some madman decides to take you over, you'd all be SCREWED in less than a week. Europe's defensive capabilities are, in all honesty, a JOKE. (No, not even the "all-mighty" German Bundeswehr would be of much help.)

Give me a freakin' break, people. Geez...

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10/01, 09:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Oh jesus

Man, for a second I thought you were going to take moral high ground. Too bad your comment degraded into yet another "America is better 'cause we won The War You (Europe)" speech. Sigh indeed.

Oh well... Errare Humanum Est.

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10/01, 09:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: oh jesus 2

That should be ..."America is better 'cause we won The War FOR You"...lest anyone think I am a lowly teenager without the ability to spell. ha.

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10/02, 05:49am | report spam | close Reply |
frogs family

i suggest to the one calling us, french, "hateful frogs", to look at his roots because i remind him that most americans have a european background.what if he disovers that he has french ancestors?commit suicide?probably!!anyway,all these arguments are useless.people stay what they are,it's not even a debate.

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10/02, 09:13am | report spam | close Reply |
Are we discussing Macs?

I am dismayed by the content of this thread. What should be an esoteric discussion on a nice piece of hardware has degenerated into a xenophobic rant, a playground name-calling session, a male macho chest-beating frenzy. I have met smelly Americans, I have met dumb, ignorant French, I have spoken with racist Jews, I have lunched with cowardly Brits, I have done business with fat Swedes. I have chatted with godless Muslims and godless Christians. But in all the countries I have visited (around 45 at the last count) I can say that the overwhelming majority of those I met were people of good intention and kind heart. This applies to Iraqis, Americans, Israelis, Palestinians, Iranians and any other demonised nationality you may care to mention. This is not to deny the existence of national traits, some good, some bad. However, the internet must surely demonstrate to the correspondents in this thread that the frontiers separating people, if not countries, are becoming a thing of the past. We must learn to accept our differences and enjoy our similarities. Now, let�s talk about Macs!

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10/02, 12:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bravo!

My subject line says it all! Bravo!

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10/07, 06:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
The French

I don't know what all the hubbub is about.

I still see the French as portrayed in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

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12/20, 07:07am | report spam | close Reply |
THOSE FRENCH

The apple i-pod has got to be one of the most expensive pieces of garbage that i have ever seen. The lousy chrome plating PEELS OFF!! I got one a few weeks ago and it broke my favourite headphones. And now the French want to make it worse!!! They shouldn't make it even more cheap and shoddy than it already is. I think that those lousy french should just keep the original. APLLE IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO RUBBISH! get a Zen Xtra

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01/21, 03:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
JUST bought I POD

just read the letter about the i pod being garbage
i am awaiting my i pod 2morrow
is the garbage comment genaral feeling or isolated.....?
or shall i put me i pod in the bin without opening

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Apple pulls all iPods from stores in France

updated 03:25 pm EDT, Mon September 30, 2002

iPods pulled in France

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