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Live keynote coverage; Apple announcements

updated 09:00 am EDT, Wed July 17, 2002

Mac OS X 10.2 which is due on August 24th for $130 with Sherlock 3, Finder enhancements, Rendezvous and Inkwell technology, iChat, a system-wide Address Book, Mail.app improvements, Quark Extreme Graphics, Universal Access, and other improvements. It is available for pre-order now.
a new 17-inch wide-screen flat-panel iMac for $2000 that supports 1440x900 resolution and has a NVIDIA GeForce4 MX chip.
a $100 price reduction on the 15-inch SuperDrive flat-panel iMac;
iTunes 3 with smart playlists, song ratings, enhanced sound effects, and Audible.com support; available);
.Mac membership service for $100/year, replacing the free iTools (current members can get the first year for $50/year);
Two new Jaguar-only applications: iCal for creating and sharing calendars and iSync for syncing data with mobile phones, PDA, and the iPod.
iPod revisions, including a slimmer 10GB model for $400, a new 20GB model for $500, new headphones, a wired remote control, a new carrying case for 10GB and 20GB models, and iPod extras such as a calendar, contact management, clock, and "secret" game access. iPod for Windows with MusicMatch Jukebox Plus software is due in August;
Full keynote coverage is still available.

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haunebu
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Apr 2000

0

07/17, 01:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
iTools ---> .Mac

I still can't believe that Apple pulled the rug out from under its loyal customer base with .Mac. They should at least have given the existing customers more options (for email-only users, or those who buy a new Mac, etc.) before forcing them to pay up or get lost. Lame!!!

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 01:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
10.2 upgrade

10.2 for $130 is expected. The question is that the price to upgrade from 10.1 price too? That would be a foolish move for Apple. It would split the already small osX user base into 2: (10.1 users and 10.2 users), doubling support expenses for all software developers, including Apple.

I don't even want to talk about iTools. I am in disbelief. I now uderstand why Switch didn't emphasize iTools - even though it was one thing that truly differentiated the Mac experience from the M$ experience.

How many Jaguar facilities will require .mac membership? It looks like Apple is going the Rent-an-OS direction. I have been happy to be out of PC-land because of this kind of scary future, but it looks like we are going there, too.

A depressing day for mac users.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 01:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not a solution

The solution to slow iMac sales (in the context of slow PC sales generally) was not a $2000 iMac. The corporate mind of Apple is currently, out to lunch.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 01:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: not a solution

I was sure the 17inch would come in a $1799 and the rest would drop $150 or even $200. I thought they wanted to sell some. What was all that "... if we can convince just 5% of the other 95% to switch... "? Good luck.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
iMac same prices almost

Only the TOP 15" iMac dropped by $100.

The price spread is now an even $200 between EACH model along the scale.

Its misleading to report a "$100 price reduction on 15" iMacs" when it was ONLY the 1899 iMac that was price reduced.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Stupidity

If you are in the market for a new Flat Panel iMac... who in their right mind would purchase the 15 inch model that comes with the SuperDrive? It costs $1799 and comes with a 60 GB HD, an older NVideo card, and a 15 inch LCD..

For ONLY $200 more, you get a 17 inch LCD, 80 GB HD
AND a new model NVideo card...

Geesh, I see these 15 inch babies collecting dust until Apple sees their stupidity and decreases their price to $1599 or less

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Stupidity

If you are in the market for a new Flat Panel iMac... who in their right mind would purchase the 15 inch model that comes with the SuperDrive? It costs $1799 and comes with a 60 GB HD, an older NVideo card, and a 15 inch LCD..

For ONLY $200 more, you get a 17 inch LCD, 80 GB HD
AND a new model NVideo card...

Geesh, I see these 15 inch babies collecting dust until Apple sees their stupidity and decreases their price to $1599 or less

jakowalsky

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07/17, 02:39pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
no updates to towers

I am very disapointed that there was no updates in the tower lineup. I assume they will update them when 10.2 hits the street.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
positive comment #1

I don't think this was the most exciting keynote, by far... however... there were some cool announcements. I'm really excited about Jagwire and all of the bluetooth integration. The 17" iMac is kinda odd... could be another cube, but it's s***, I must admit. And, for 1999, it's a steal.

And now, I think I'm finally ready to buy an iPod. The 10 gig one looks supercool, especially with all of the cool new bells and whistles.

Is it just me, or have they improved the visuals in iTunes3?

Lastly, it's a great time to buy Apple stock. Check out the price... el cheapo... ;)

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
iTools/.mac

What's the big deal?

You want online storage, web e-mail, Backup and Virus software? You pay $100/year. If you don't, no big deal.

It WON'T be like XP which keeps "reminding" you every minute about Passport.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
DARK SIDE

Apple is going in a very dark direction. I'm scared.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 02:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Expo??

Wow...

Now I understand why a lot of vendors sat this one out (yawn!!).

If all they wanted to deliver was bad news (or at most non-news), the press releases would have sufficed.

groundwork
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Joined: Aug 2001

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07/17, 03:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
The Big Deal

"The big deal" is that mac.com users---people like me who have been signed up from day one---are now forced into one of two situations. Either we allow ourselves to be gouged out of $100 annually for something we were previously given for free and for other items that we don't give a c*** about, or we have to scramble to find another solution (thus having to change email/homepage addresses). To not include a free email/homepage only option is just c***. Also, the iDisk integration with OS X which Apple used to brag about is now useless you want to add another $100 annually to the equation.

I understand the need to cover your costs (and even turn a profit) from offering these services, but this decision is really short-sighted and will likely end up upsetting and repelling far more people than it attracts.

haunebu
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Apr 2000

0

07/17, 03:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: iTools/.mac

"You want online storage, web e-mail, Backup and Virus software? You pay $100/year. If you don't, no big deal."

Nope, I just want to keep my email address, one which I've slowly come to depend on over the last couple of years. That's all. And I don't want to pay $100/year to do it. But there's no other option. That's just ridiculous.

Apple's most loyal cutomers are taking flight... no-one should put up with this kind of customer relationship management.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 03:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
macnn

It was fun to watch the keynote on Quicktime streaming, and a very smart macworld in light of the summer of economic discontent. Product lines grow stale after a while, so you might as well introduce new things when the conditions are a little better.

.mac, is this a biggie? So some of you have to pay for email now. Welcome to the real world.

Oh and why does this stoopid MACNN forum NOT ALLOW OSX USERS TO POST? I can only post on my older computer, which is always logged in here. Trying to log in with a different computer with X does not work!

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 03:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
I can post.

IE 5.2 on OS 10.1.5.

Though quite often the "Post Comments" button does disappear from the page. (It wasn't here this morning). Sounds like an intermittent glitch in the PHP.

jpellino
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Joined: Oct 1999

0

07/17, 03:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Great, & for educators...

For educators, Jaguar will be $69 - fair enough - my order goes in today - the 5GB iPod is down to $269 - now that's reasonable. If only the Apple store had a wedding registry... If only my clutch didn't die last weekend... if... well, it's closer, anyway.

I think it's a good strategy to have Windows users pay for the connection to iPod - I'm hoping it's the paid version of Musicmatch that does this, and that Apple is getting something from them. Either way, they get revenue from buying their OS or the add-on needed in another OS. If I were them, I'd go further and offer an Apple-branded, bombproof solution like iTunes for windows, but protect it and charge for it. Win/win.

As for iTools > .mac - well, you only get a free ride for so long. But the value is wonderful - if only for the extended space and the Virex. I'll do the first year, I'll see about the rest. I am after all a former charter eWorlder, so a tiny patch of skin at least is crawling.

iCal and iSync will be so much more seamless than the others - and the cell phone demo Steve did was very very sweet. XP's answer? **crickets** Thought so.

Despite their assurances to the contrary, it would seem that Redmond is feeling a little bit of Cupertino breathing down their neck. Good. A little competition is healthy. Of course, if this week's OpenGL news is any indication, MS may just pipe up by Friday and mention that several pieces of the Jaguar are in fact their IP and... OK, my head hurts now.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 03:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Oh my god what a bunch of

Babies. I was very impressed with the coming features and have preordered my Jaguar and paid my very small $50 for the first year of .mac service. This is a small price to pay, we mac users want it all and for free. As for notice, exactly how much notice would be good for you? I think there is plenty of notice for you to make other arrangements and notify everyone you know that you'll be switching to another email that's free, good luck, and if you find it, how long will that last until it starts to charge as well.

This is not M$. You do not have to use these services if you don't want them. I will personally be taking advantage of a lot of the features introduce like iCal, and the additional iDisk space. The dark direction, wow, you're just a unix using fool who know what their talking about. Go learn something.

To the users that is complaining about not being able to log in under X; how many services do you use that you can be logged into the same account at the same time.

To anyone offended by any part of this post please go to www.bigwhinybaby.com for a free refund and a massage or any inconvenience that this post has caused and I do apologize for not giving you enough notice before you read the post, soo sorry.

MacNN.com Reader
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0

07/17, 04:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
whiners...

What's the big deal? If you use your mac for business... write off the $99 bucks!
It's less than $2 bucks a week for christs sake.
I spend more than that on bottled water!

I don't have a .mac account yet but when I buy my new tower in the next 6 months I'm getting one.

Yeah I know it sucks that the free ride is over.
But don't act like apple is abusing you...
you were getting something for FREE...
did you really expect it to last forever?

I NEED one of those 20 gig iPods!

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 04:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
enough !

I have damn well enough monthly or yearly fees to pay, and after spending $2,000 + last winter for my iBook + Applecare and accesories they want to hit me with another fee? For email? Because that's about all I use iTools for. I really like my @mac.com email address, especially when sending mail to my PC using friends, reminding them of a cool service included with the purchase of a Mac. I will not pay for email, especially to Apple, to whom I've already shelled out much of my hard earned cash. I don't make much money, and to add another friggin' bill to all the others I have to shell out for....and...after already paying Apple so much and having been happy enough with that.... but having to now pay for the email service that I thought I already paid for when I bought my iBook....well, that's too much! .Mac, .Net, I'm not interested in either. It won't surprise me if Apple gets hit with a consumer backlash over this. And Apple wants me to pursuade my PC using friends to switch! Email from a mac.com address is subtle advertising with every delivered and read message. Well, here's one less reason to switch now. Oh, yes, I have another free email service. It looks like I'm already retiring my mac.com address, and that's Apple's loss, not mine.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Discussions

"You want online storage, web e-mail, Backup and Virus software? You pay $100/year. If you don't, no big deal."

I don't want any of those enough to pay $100.

However, most of apple.com/support is going members only, eg. Discussions. Yes, it's hidden in http://mac.com/1/mac_faq.html. So now another of the few free support options available to mac users is gone.

They're ambiguous about Tech Support but it looks to me that that will be members-only too.

Think Similar.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

07/17, 06:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Discussions

The FAQ does NOT say that discussions are going behind the .Mac wall. Nor does it say that tech support will not be supported without .Mac coverage.

It does say that they have access to these things, but that doesn't mean you don't if you don't sign up (for example, if Apple were to allow access to the Knowledgebase to only .Mac users, they would end up spending more money on tech support people answering questions that could be answered on-line).

Marcus
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 1999

0

07/17, 07:14pm | report spam | close Reply |
Boring

To be honest, I care little of Address book, Calendars, iTunes smart lists, iSync etc etc. I want my OS X to work fast and I don't want to have to buy a new copy of it. Am I being greedy? No! It's a 10.2 for god's sake, not a OS 11. Why is the current software world so h*** bent on charging full price for a bug fix?
.mac will not get used by me at all. I liked my mac.com email address but not $100 a year worth.

I will however be selling off my stuff to get a 17" iMac and hopefully a iPod, they are cool.

Hopefully we get a Pro series announcment in a few weeks.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 07:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
.Mac .suks

The only thing I really use from iTools is my mac.com email. I have no interest in the other features. My family and some of my friends are the same -- are they supposed to spend $99 each for the privelege of continuing to use the email that they have been using for free all this time? To me, since iTools was touted as being one of the advantages of owning a mac, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that it remain free -- I thought it was one reason that we pay for our computers. There should be an option for current iTools users to continue using their email (at the current 5mb mailbox limit) for a small fee like $10 or $20 a year.

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 07:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
So let Apple know about

it. Don't b**** here about it, I can't do anything about it and I really don't agree with you, but if enough of you let Apple know that all you want is your mac.com account maybe they set it up like that. Or is all you do is b****, be pro active, if you can post here you're half way there. Good luck.

kentuckyfried
Senior User

Joined: Jan 2002

0

07/17, 08:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
grumble grumble grumble..

I agree with Marcus...most of this stuff, I don't use,
save for maybe those free iCards. Thank Apple for not charging us for the really useful things like iTunes and iMovie. To be honest, I'm more frustrated that Quicktime 6.0 still can't play vcd's. I have to go into Classic and use Quicktime 5.0 before that works.
MPEG-2 is not supported so VLC doesn't work!!

I'm praying that 10.2 will solve the speed problems of OS X....this new OS isn't going to fly until the speed issue is resolved. I'm ok with it, but those speed bumps aren't going to convince anybody to switch to a Mac.

It's too bad they're getting rid of the free storage space. I never got around to using it.

for the people really pissed about that itools thing, remember to sign the petition! I've put my name in already.

Welborn
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07/17, 08:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
iCal

iCal needs to support Exchange calendars -- at least for import -- to be really useful. How many people are going to have the luxury of being at all-Mac companies where everyone will have OS X 10.2 and be able to share their calendars only amongst themselves with iCal?

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 09:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
You can do better?

It's a bit sad how willing people are to grumble about actually having to pay for something these days--a couple of years of unsustainably free Internet services in the boom years (and if they weren't unsustainable, where'd they all go?), and now everybody has a coniption fit when something isn't free. Heck, I never even used iTools, or any other free e-mail service, and I seem to get by ok as a tech geek.

Don't get me wrong--I completely understand not wanting to pay for the full set of .Mac services when you just want to keep your mac.com e-mail address, and Apple really should offer a stripped down version for less. If we all complain enough, they probably will.

But for everything else, think for a second:

"I want free e-mail forever!" Haven't you noticed that Yahoo, mail.com, et al are all rapidly moving toward paid service only? Heck, I offered free e-mail through my website until recently, but I had to give it up to. Everybody hate me now because I have to pay bills!

"I bought computers from Apple, they owe me free services!" Why? They'll probably throw in a year of service at some point, like other companies, but nobody else does that for you as far as I know, and it's not like Apple is making huge profits on their systems--look at the earnings announcement yesterday.

"How can they expect us to pay for a .2/bugfix OS upgrade?"
Ok, so they labeled it 10.2 instead of 10.5 or 11.0--if it'd been MS, you can bet they'd have called it X Special Edition 2K2 or something, and they'd sure be charging for it. Although I'll freely admit there are 10.1 bugs, it works better in my home and office now than 7/8/9.x ever did, and 10.2 is adding a huge number of new features and improvements--I'll certainly pay for it if I have to.

Now, it WOULD be very nice to offer a reasonable upgrade price, and I think they should (maybe will)... but let's not get too huffy because we're being asked to pay for software. And fine, if you think 10.1 doesn't do what it should, and Apple owes you an upgrade, why're you using it? Switch to Windows, Linux, or stay with 9.x if they're so much better.

Anyway, no big announcements, but check out all the little cool stuff that's involved in this keynote instead: A neat, integrated PIM program that'll probably do its job better than anything else. A cool iMac--I know I'd buy one if I didn't just get two new towers and one of the 15" models. Better, cheaper iPods. And a service that offers the novice computer user almost everything they need--virus checking, online storage, e-mail, a website, and more--all integrated with the OS for $8.34 a month.

It's not .net--we're not being forced to pay to keep using software we "own"--we're just being asked to pay for new features and ongoing service if we really think it's that worthwhile. If you can do better elsewh

MacNN.com Reader
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07/17, 10:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
.mac Light

All I want them to do is offer a .mac Light, with the existing free features, at a REASONABLE price. $25/yr would be fine, even $50/yr I could handle (and I will pay for the first year at the iTools rate).

But I don't need more storage space, I don't need their backup utility (I have Retrospect), I've already got Virex...and I don't want to pay for the stuff I don't need.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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07/17, 11:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
OS cost...

I hear people complaining about Apple charging $130 for OS X, saying it just got usable (10.1 came out a year ago, 10.0 was 1.5 years ago). My question would be, when would it be OK for Apple to charge for an update? If they waited another year to add new features? If they redid the whole interface again? Or should they just provide free upgrades until you deem that it meets what you think the OS should be like ("How dare they charge me another $130 just to get spring loaded folders!!!")

What I find really funny, though, are the nimrods who actually think that the version number should affect pricing. Someone actually said "$130 for a .2 release seems excessive. If it were called 10.5, that would be different". Wait, just change a number, and you'd be willing to spend $100 vs $50. Would you pay $200 if it were called 11.0?

MacNN.com Reader
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07/18, 11:34am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Re: Discussions

Testudo: "The FAQ does NOT say that discussions are going behind the .Mac wall."

Testudo, how else do you interprete this?

.Mac FAQ: "Trial or grace period customers have access to all the Apple Care online support features. The .Mac Support discussion boards are reserved for paying members only."

You said: "... if Apple were to allow access to the Knowledgebase to only .Mac users, they would end up spending more money on tech support people answering questions that could be answered on-line..."

I agree, but I think Apple thinks it'll get more people to pay the $100/yr.

Now, it could mean that there will be a .Mac discussion board and a .FreeLoaders discussion board. but that would be dumb because splitting the board populations would reduce the value of both boards.

I think it is clear that the discussion boards will be a .Mac perk.

Apple is unhappy with the boards because people get on them to b****. It is pretty normal to b**** when you have a problem, and you don't need the board if you don't have a problem. Apple should just get over it.

Another reason I think it would be a poor decision to make Discussion paying, is that when people pay for something, they expect value in return. Discussions is Apple users helping Apple users. Official Apple people almost never get involved. You think people b**** about that now, wait til they start paying for it...

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