toggle

AAPL Stock: 427.83 ( -3.94 )

MacNN News

http://www.macnn.com/articles/02/06/19/columnists:.os/

Columnists: OS X vs. Linux, Apple's future

updated 11:55 pm EDT, Wed June 19, 2002

", 0, 0);

AnchorDesk's David Coursey, noting that Apple has done with OS X what the Linux community has failed to do, says he would choose OS X over Linux: "if all I wanted was a Unix (or Unix-ish) OS I could actually use, I'd choose Mac OS X. With Mac G4 machines now down to $1,100, that option buys you not just a Unix-based OS but a mature commercial OS that's easy to use, something I don't think Linux--at least the version I am using--really is." Meanwhile, PC Magazine's John Dvorak writes "Isn't it about time the Macintosh was simply discontinued�put down like an old dog?...I'm now beginning to see the Macintosh computer as an old hound that can't hunt."

by MacNN Staff

Post tools:

TAGS :

industry

toggle

Comments

jerome
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Oct 2001

0

06/20, 12:42am | report spam | close Reply |
ESHH

God have mercy on John Dvorak's soul! Nan, just make him burn in h***.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 12:53am | report spam | close Reply |
hmm

Macintosh an old hound? So this guy likes dog metaphors eh? Ok I wonder which dog spends all day licking its own nuts and forgets to fix security wholes? Or which dog spends all day sniffing other dogs rear ends? Thats right David ol chum, your one pathetic b****. Go pick fights you have a hope in h*** of winning.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 12:54am | report spam | close Reply |
holes

Thats holes not wholes, my bad. hey why is anyone even up at this time anyway?

mrl14
Junior Member

Joined: Nov 1999

0

06/20, 12:58am | report spam | close Reply |
What's Sad

is that companies pay people like Dvorak to write stupid articles like this. It's why America is so lame. Why don't you stop bashing apple and other companies and instead give them advice on what they should develop. It's sad that these companies need articles like these to sell Magazines...its no wonder this world is corrupt.

chas_m
Moderator

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/20, 01:10am | report spam | close Reply |
At last!!!

Thank GOD Dvorak finally got around to this! Whew! For a minute there I thought my Apple stock would NEVER go up!

Dvorak's perfect track record (unbroken in a career stretching almost 20 years now!) of being absolutely WRONG every single time he poo-poos an emerging technology, declares anything "irrelevant" or (heaven help us) makes a prediction of any kind means that it's VITAL to Mac OS X's success that he denounce it. And now he has.

I think we can now rest assured that Apple has at LEAST another 10 years of life left in it, if not 20. Dvorak has spoken.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 01:18am | report spam | close Reply |
There's a grain of truth

Maybe there's something to be said here. For one, he actually praises OS X for being the OS Linux wants to be. However, as revolutionary as OS X is for the Mac platform, it is the technological descendent of NEXT and not a computer revolution.

The iMac: evolutionary, not revolutionary. The same will be true even with the G5. The GUI was the last major revolution in the computer industry.

However: saying Mac should be killed for not starting a revolution? What do we do with Dell, then? Microsoft? We'd have to kill them all. The next big revolution will come from somebody small and brilliant. Apple just has to buy them before Microsoft can.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 01:30am | report spam | close Reply |
What was he thinking

"The obvious next iteration of the Mac will be the current Luxo-looking i-Mac with a bigger screen and probably new colors. After that, what is Apple going to do?" -- He's obviously the kind of guy who laughed at Apple when the iMac came in 5 colors, and I bet then he said what is Apple going to do next? Well they came out with the revolutionary LCD iMac that's the size of just a regular LCD display. That's what! How can anyone say, what is Apple going to do next, Apple is always innovating, and is unpredictable.

"Having said that, why can't Apple take its genius to the next level and bring out a completely new machine that is not a Macintosh?" -- The real reason Apple isn't coming out with totally new CPU's and such, is because of developer and user support. Almost everyone wants a computer they can still use their old software on. That's why Microsoft still uses DOS, and why Apple had to include Classic. It's to late to come out with something completely new, and expect people to buy it. People want compatibility.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 01:50am | report spam | close Reply |
Come on MacNN...

If you take the time to read the whole article, you will see that Dvorak is not bashing the Mac-platform. In fact, he is downright charitable to Apple--he comments that Windows couldn't move forward without Apple and that Apple has trumped every Linux UI out there. The point of the article is that the computer industry in general is stagnating. His analogy to the 1950's car market is accurate. Think about it--when was the last time a truly revolutionary computer was released? Don't say the iMac--it is a truly cool and powerful computer, but what is new about it??? It is just an updated PC inside a s*** body. Now if it had true voice recognition or something else amazing and unheard of, we could call it revolutionary. But it doesn't, so we can't. The computer industry needs to come up with something groundbreaking in the next 5-10--which is what I belive Dvorak's point is.

Having said that, his attempt to grab press by starting his article comparing Apple to an old and decrepid dog is despicable.

Welborn
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/20, 02:30am | report spam | close Reply |
Dvorak

JCD is the definition of 'troll'

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 02:51am | report spam | close Reply |
good grief

QUOTE"
If you take the time to read the whole article, you will see that Dvorak is not bashing the Mac-platform. In fact, he is downright charitable to Apple--he comments that Windows couldn't move forward without Apple and that Apple has trumped every Linux UI out there. The point of the article is that the computer industry in general is stagnating. His analogy to the 1950's car market is accurate. Think about it--when was the last time a truly revolutionary computer was released? Don't say the iMac--it is a truly cool and powerful computer, but what is new about it??? It is just an updated PC inside a s*** body. Now if it had true voice recognition or something else amazing and unheard of, we could call it revolutionary. But it doesn't, so we can't. The computer industry needs to come up with something groundbreaking in the next 5-10--which is what I belive Dvorak's point is.
"
If it wasn't for Apple there would be NO innovation. Revolutionary? Not you butthead, you wouldn't know revolutionary from Red Square. Go buy a Dell and
leave the creativity to those with vision... and balls.

Marcus
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 1999

0

06/20, 03:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Strange

I don't think the this guy actually knows what he is saying. He contridicts himself all over the article. If you read it one way he says that evrything sucks and noone is doing anything worthwhile in the PC world.
Guess who is worrying about their job prospects? A Pro-PC columnist in a world soon to go more and more Mac is not a good place to be.

majinbutz

Joined:

0

06/20, 06:19am | report spam | close Reply | delete
iDiot

Dvorak is good at one thing, getting people's attention. MacNN's quote from the article was taken entirely out of context and you know JCD and PC Magazine are loving it.

His real point is, the computer industry needs a revolution on the scale of the GUI. By this premise, he could just as easily say Windows is a dog that can't hunt, Linux is a dog that can't hunt, every OS in existence right now is a dog that can't hunt because none of them have offered a technological revolution lately. So why pick on the Mac? Just to get attention.

By revolution, he doesn't just mean a fresh OS that doesn't run any old software. Be Inc already tried that route, remember? He wants a computer that works in a totally new way. He, like many other fools in the industry, seems to think it will have something to do with talking to your computer or having it talk to you. This Star Trek concept is just plain silly. That technology will be here soon enough and rather than be a revolution, it will be MS Bob. I'd say OSX's inclusion of Ink will be much more significant and useful than any speech technology. But whether or not either of those ideas is the next big thing, it won't require the death of any current OS to bring them to the masses. The flaw in his thinking is that new technology == new OS.

John Dwight
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 1999

0

06/20, 07:06am | report spam | close Reply |
Dvorak musak

Seeing all the repsonses here, I konw the Mac is healthy. Same old tune from Dvorak. Talk aobut your old dog that won't hunt.

*quote:
His analogy to the 1950's car market is accurate.
*end quote

Hey, if Detroit offered a TBird or Edsel I'd buy a new car in flash. Current car design is no place to go looking for inspiration. The only fun looking car around is a rehash of the Beetle. 50's Retro is where Detroit should head if they'd like to see a ground swell in sales, but every designer has to outdo his father so were stuck with the Anon-O-Mobiles of today.

I'm sure there's a reason to use Linux for your personal desktop; I'll stick with OS X, too, Dave.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 07:19am | report spam | close Reply |
on a sidenote...

on his now defunct show silicon spin, he had a panel of people, and they were talking about the different OS's: windows, linux, mac. dvorak says outright, "why should we bother using GUI? all we need is command line!" and everyone kinda looked at him and smirked, one one panelist said "so you'd rather use a command line than a mouse?" he said "yes! with a command line, i can do anything, i don't need the visuals..."

HeatherEcsedi
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2001

0

06/20, 08:18am | report spam | close Reply |
How...

can you possibly take Dvorak seriously ?

I really liked the comment : "Of course, if Apple never moves forward, what happens to the copycat Windows platform?"
So basically the guy says Apple should get rid off the Macintosh but he first wonders where Windows would go without the Mac OS.

Plus, he never took any opportunity to use a Mac. So how could he possibly get a point ?

I really like the part about Apple using Xerox's interface to create the Macintosh. This was one of the best decisions Apple ever took. Unlike Xerox, Apple was able to propose a GUI and establish it as THE standard of desktop computing. This was a much greater move than MS copying Apple to create Windows, without mentionning BeOS and anything that came after.

Just go through the forum that follows the article. Some very interesting comments can be found.

I used to sort of "fight" to defend the Mac. I now ignore PC users who simply smear the Mac without having ever used one in actual conditions, not a showroom with a frozen iMac.

Last thing, OS X is the future of the Mac and looks very promising. If only Dvorak had ever used MacOS 9 or sooner, then OS X, he'd see the real evolution. I still don't use OS X as a professional OS - it still lags many features for me, but I spend a lot of time "playing" with it and I must say that in months, I've never had a single crash.

Just let Dvorak enjoy his ignorance. That's all he deserves.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 09:29am | report spam | close Reply |
Dvorak

Dvoark used to write for either MacUser or MacWorld. I forget which. He was an idiot then and he is an idiot now. His ramblings are stupid and will forever remain so. That he gets paid is amazing and I congratulate him.

Unfortunately, he fails to see how irrelevant he and his magazines have become. Who the h*** actually buys these magazines these days? All the content is on the web for free. Soon, they will all go out of business and Apple will still be around.

doingdifferent
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

06/20, 09:33am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple is a company..

.. not a revolutionary movement. Their main purpose is to make money for their shareholders. The Newton and the Cube proved that flashy new technology that is superior to anything else out there can still fail - if the market is not ready for it.

I think Apple is right on with their evolutionary, lets introduce it when its right - approach.

Having said that - no operating system or computer will be revolutionary unless it allows users to do things they were not able to do before. Desktop publishing was revolutionary because it allowed anyone with a bit of talent to disseminate their work inexpensively. Video and audio authoring will also likely be revolutionary as it plays out for the same reasons. Apple is not consolidating all this video and 3D technology just for pros. Their expertise is taking high end stuff and crafting elegant, easy-to-use solutions that consumers can be productive with.

I think that Quicktime is the sleeper in all this.

DD

zaren
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/20, 09:40am | report spam | close Reply |
dog that hunts?

Who'd want a hunting dog for an OS anyway? Hunting dogs have a tendency to go off into the weeds from time to time :)

-----
Apple hardware still too expensive for you? How about a raffle ticket?

Let "them" know you're not a terrorist

Elektrix
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Sep 2001

0

06/20, 09:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Xerox and Apple

I'm getting sick of the revisionism from guys like Dvorak in terms of the relationship between the Xerox Alto and the Lisa and Mac GUIs. First off, if he ever used a Lisa, he would realize how different that GUI was from the original Mac GUI. Secondly, the Xerox and Lisa GUI's were really clunky and missing a lot of ideas. The mac team came up with a lot of original ideas. The way people like Dvorak report it, it's like they did what Microsoft did, saw a fully functioning GUI and just ripped it off, when in fact the Mac team was simply inspired by the concept and used their own genius to create something truly amazing. I have used a Lisa, and it is not nearly as slick or incredible as the original Mac.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 10:54am | report spam | close Reply |
Dogs Hogs and Logs

I remember when John wrote for the old MacUser...

I just wanted to point out a few misunderstandings, both on his part and that of my comrades in Appledom who often respond so violently to criticism of any kind. The "trash the Mac" idea is simple and wrong.

His language may have been provocative, and his argument flawed and overstated.
But John's point that there has been no real "Big Idea" since the Star and Lisa is true in a way.

The problem is, with the phenomenon of path dependence innovation can be overtaken by commodity and expectation. An example is the paper clip. There are many clip designs that look nicer and are far more effective, but are reduced to sub-niche status by path dependence: e.g. we all perceive paper clips as a commodity, and expect them to look and behave in a certain way, so chances are they will stay as they are. Innovation can sometimes be pointless in the marketplace.

PCs are seen as a commodity with predictable characteristics (beige box, a GUI, etc.) except at the high end, and in niches such as servers, NLE, visualisation, post-prod, and a few other select markets. WinTel machines are a commodity, with the dullness and price/performance and market share advantages that brings. Macs, SGIs and such are not, but that reduces their relevance while increasing their tendency towards differentiation from commodity WinTel bozoboxes. Wall Street is more interested in dividends than the long-term, risk world of R&D, to make matters worse. Other than in the mobile/PDA space, it is hard to see how a "big idea" can take off. So we are restricted to the world of smaller ideas, which Apple has a lot of.

The failure of Apple to change away from a hardware subsidised model in the early to mid 90s, with deep sixed projects like StarTrek (mega fast System 7 on x86) and the regrettable move away from the IBM CHRP/DesktopOS PowerPC standard concept has certainly restricted Apple's market share and relevance. With PowerPCs primarily now for the server and embedded space, their development has slowed dangerously as well compared to the x86 world. Now it is too late to change models, and Apple must leverage its considerable proprietary advantages to continue to survive. It looks like Apple wants to corner the premium consumer space, the education space, and reinvigorate the creative space by maintaining the pro market and going further after the lower-end SGI market.

John's critique of Macs as design led is partially valid (we still won't have DDR on our desktops until next month, allegedly), but misunderstands how differentiation is necessary what is essentially a commodity market.

However, it is difficult to see how ANY innovation can happen if the WinTel monopoly and monoculture is totally unchallenged. If he wants innovation, John should applaud Apple, Be (RIP), Sun, open source, and anyone

getoverit
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

06/20, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
The final frontier

Where's my Transporter room? Beam me up Scotty!!
Damn near 40yrs after StarTrec and no Transporter.
I'm going to quit driving my old fashioned automobile

dthree
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 1999

0

06/20, 01:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Shoot the messenger

Only a couple of you even understand Dvorak's job. He doesn't speak from a position of authority, he is merely an instigator, and a good one at that. Whoever said he was a troll was right: THAT is his JOB! He gets people talking. Don't fact-check his articles because they are not for analysis, they are to spark discussion.

When he left MacUser, I thought that was an indicator that the end of the Macintosh was near. I realized later that many of us Mac users are so damn defensive that we didn't understand that Dvorak was all about trying to make the Mac better by picking on its weaknesses. I can only image the hate mail he used to get. Big surprise that he left, since few were getting the message.

The point of his article still is: no computer revolutions since the desktop GUI. Since, no one else is gonna do it, so apple needs to be the one to invent the next big thing.

d3 `-{>

DannyMac
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

06/20, 01:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
pfft

According to Dvorak's logic, if Apple has nothing new to do then certainly EVERY PC manufacturer has nothing new to offer. So, let's just close down every computer manufacturer... stop making computers for Dvorak says Apple has no more to offer--and Apple has been the innovator thus far. Where Apple steps the PC world steps. Thank you Dvorak for generating more attention for yourself (even though you say you're not).

jasonbw
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2000

0

06/20, 01:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
out of touch w/reality

I knew Dvorak had no idea what he was talking about when i heard him explain the best way to buy a computer was to buy the absolute fastest out on the market. That way, he explained, it'll last longer. So, say if i were to buy the fastest consumer intel chip (for $600+) versus the second slowest ($400), i'd be spending 30% more money to get just 5% more power. I'd just ignore the guy, someday he'll go away.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 01:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
X for Dummies

...there was an interesting piece in the Register by Orlowski that implied that Apple has given up trying to market the machine to anyone but dummies and losers.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

06/20, 04:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Innovation

I just think it's kind of funny when people lament the lack of a true revolution in computing since the GUI. They're absolutely right that the basic concept of a computer hasn't changed since about 1985--you've got your window/icon based GUI, a processor with a monitor and some storage on the side. But just because the revolutions have hapened over a longer timeframe than "Eureka!" fans like doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Desktop publishing? I'd say putting the power to create and publish pro-quality print media from your living room is pretty significant.

The INTERNET? Gee, that's not a revolution. Sure it existed 20 years ago, but in the early 90s nothing outside of sci-fi movies had it doing what it does today.

Desktop video production? Professional quality video without the training or hardware is huge (I'd personally say revolutionary), and Apple isn't just in the front, they practically are the niche. That's their next big thing--just look at all the high-end production company aquisitions.

How about photography? In 5 years the photo workflow has changed from the camera to something that centers completely on the computer.

True, none of these revolutions/evolutions may seem quite as impressive as a GUI, or the idea of having a computer at home, but I'd personally say that they're just as significant in changing the way things work.

themotor
Registered User

Joined: Mar 2000

0

06/20, 06:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Innovation

Don't forget audio recording, mixing, and production.

:-)

Show More Comments

Login Here

toggle

Network Headlines

06/19	Apple patent head Boris Teksler leaves...
06/19	Apple TV 5.3 update adds HBO Go, Sky...
06/19	Schematics allegedly show dimensions...
06/19	LinkedIn integration could be coming...
06/19	A closer look: iOS 7 Siri and iOS in...

Show All

06/19	Apple TV 5.3 update adds HBO Go, Sky...
06/19	Dish gives up on Sprint merger attempt...
06/19	Schematics allegedly show dimensions...
06/19	LinkedIn integration could be coming...
06/19	A closer look: iOS 7 Siri and iOS in...

Show All

toggle

Columnists: OS X vs. Linux, Apple's future

updated 11:55 pm EDT, Wed June 19, 2002

ESHH

hmm

holes

What's Sad

At last!!!

There's a grain of truth

What was he thinking

Come on MacNN...

Dvorak

good grief

Strange

iDiot

Dvorak musak

on a sidenote...

How...

Dvorak

Apple is a company..

dog that hunts?

Xerox and Apple

Dogs Hogs and Logs

The final frontier

Shoot the messenger

pfft

out of touch w/reality

X for Dummies

Innovation

Re: Innovation

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace

Columnists: OS X vs. Linux, Apple's future

updated 11:55 pm EDT, Wed June 19, 2002

Related Articles

Recent Articles

ESHH

hmm

holes

What's Sad

At last!!!

There's a grain of truth

What was he thinking

Come on MacNN...

Dvorak

good grief

Strange

iDiot

Dvorak musak

on a sidenote...

How...

Dvorak

Apple is a company..

dog that hunts?

Xerox and Apple

Dogs Hogs and Logs

The final frontier

Shoot the messenger

pfft

out of touch w/reality

X for Dummies

Innovation

Re: Innovation

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace