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http://www.macnn.com/articles/02/04/23/creationism.supporter/

Creationism supporter slams Apple for ethics

updated 08:20 pm EDT, Tue April 23, 2002

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Apple slammed for \'ethics\'

"University professor" and creationism proponent Dr. Richard Paley recently declared Apple Computer a solicitor of "Godless Darwinism and Communism." Paley likens open source projects such as Apple's Darwin to communism and says that the majority Computer Programmers are "Atheists and Pagans." Dr. Paley further denounces Apple as anti-Christian in its use of the "perverse" 'Think Different' advertising campaign that purportedly incites wavering from the "Christian upbringing" through mind control. Paley also criticizes PBS and Pok�mon, and calls for the reclamation of Halloween by the Christian community.

by MacNN Staff

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04/23, 08:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Insane

that is all i can think to say! OMG!

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04/23, 08:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who is this guy?

Who is this guy? That's pretty funny, but i doubt he is actually a prof -- maybe in his imagination. Apple should capitalize on this kind of stuff and have think different "forbidden fruit" ads! It'd have appeal.

johnpaul191
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04/23, 08:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
oh boy, is it a joke?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. i think that's about all i can say. then again i can go on.....
if he is against computer programmers for being evil, i guess he should buy a shack somewhere near where the unabomber was living. i don't see how he can really be sure anything from his phone, so the printers that made his bible to his pants were not made by tools of the devil.

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04/23, 08:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
it's a hoax guys

man, is the clock slow or what....this has been on the internet for DAYS

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04/23, 08:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hello MacNN, others...

This is so obviously a joke site. The emails are all invalid, its so over the top, etc. Why is anyone taking this seriously? Are they all atheists that think this is what Christianity teaches? C'mon guys get a clue. ITS A FREAKING PARODY!

And its been around for a while now too.

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04/23, 08:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: it's a hoax guy

I've seen some other stuff posted on that site -- pretty lame, yet funny. I think this can go down as one of the funnier peices of mac news ever, what's a little fun ever now and then??

croft
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04/23, 08:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
HOAX !!!

You guys are so gullible see:

http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2002/04/20020423140855.shtml

j4e
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04/23, 08:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
ignorance is bliss

unfortunatly, it's NOT a hoax. This guy is serious. I've poked around his site, and this is just one more example of his closed minded attitude. The funny thing is, he talks about open source being COMMUNISM.... well, his pages are served on a Linux system running Apache.... he must be horrified to discover that he is supporting communism! Wat other choices are there? many of the BSD UNIX varients out there have little devil mascots...., plus changing file permissions on files means you *might* have to type 'chmod 666' - so that cuts out unix. Can't use Linux because its communist... Apple is clearly satanic and subversive... and Windows is... well... just about everything he says about Apple being a cult holds true for Microsoft, too. I'm sure if i thought about it hard enough, i could prove that using Windoze is a form of idolatry. hehe. boy, is HE screwed. Back to the Guttenberg press, dude!

johnpaul191
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04/23, 08:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
he needs more research

he forgot a lot of great stuff, like that stuff listed here: http://fusionanomaly.net/applecomputer.html
he neglectd the Apple I costing $666, and the first powerPC (Mac 6100) running at 66.6 mghz..... the Apple thing is supposedly more than a reference to adam&eve. ANYWAY even with all that evil, there are a lot of Christians that use Apple computers/software of their own free will. if you stare at the visualizer long enough in iTunes you will see a cross show up. supposedly the programmer of that visualizer is a Christian and just threw it in. i personally have no religious leanings, and am just point out a few things. though for the record i am so very sure we are evolved apes.

j4e
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04/23, 08:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
ignorance is bliss

unfortunatly, it's NOT a hoax. This guy is serious. I've poked around his site, and this is just one more example of his closed minded attitude. The funny thing is, he talks about open source being COMMUNISM.... well, his pages are served on a Linux system running Apache.... he must be horrified to discover that he is supporting communism! Wat other choices are there? many of the BSD UNIX varients out there have little devil mascots...., plus changing file permissions on files means you *might* have to type 'chmod 666' - so that cuts out unix. Can't use Linux because its communist... Apple is clearly satanic and subversive... and Windows is... well... just about everything he says about Apple being a cult holds true for Microsoft, too. I'm sure if i thought about it hard enough, i could prove that using Windoze is a form of idolatry. hehe. boy, is HE screwed. Back to the Guttenberg press, dude!

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04/23, 09:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
You'd be surprised

There is a talk going around universities of "Intelligent Design", the idea that god must exist because the world works and works well and that could not have happened randomly; therefore must have been designed by a higher being. This is a touring talk which I did not attend, being a geology major it's a little too much BS. Sorry to disappoint any of you out there thinking the world is 4500 thousand years old, but it's 4.5-5.0 billion. You wanna thump something try a text book.

thetrinity
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04/23, 09:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
IT'S A HOAX!

It's a HOAX site linked to other parody hoax sites. As an example, one of the advertized sites is
http://www.bettybowers.com/

I don't have a clue what organization is sponsoring these Fundamentalist-Parody sites, but they are definitely NOT created by Christians.

jedi1yoda1
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04/23, 09:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Byte me

Be careful of your mac's "Darwinism," it might grow arms out of its spherical base and strangle you in its defense, or maybe even wings.

:-p ::

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04/23, 09:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
scary

http://207.67.219.101/objective/faq.html

I think this site is part hoax. I think there is one extremist person who has manufacuted all the aliases and member descriptions to make his site look like a real movement. loser.

ottawadave
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04/23, 09:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not Representative

I'm a creationist, and I know many other creationists who do not share Mr. Paley's views.

Whether the site is sincere or a parody, I hope that the majority of folks don't take it as representative of how Christians perceive their world.

After all, only Apple gives us computers and software that are so "heavenly to use". :-)

-Dave

Mystigo

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04/23, 09:41pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Parody Schmarody

If it's a parody I wish they would say that on there somewhere.

Parody or not, there are people that really do think that way and will definitely be convinced by the "revelations" on that site. I live in the South and I have talked to people that genuinely believe the world is only 5000 years old, that evolutionary theory is an absolute fabrication, and that only they are going to heaven, etc etc.

The letters section in this Sunday's Atlanta Journal Constitution had 4 letters from people defending creationism. They weren't parodies either. Their arguments boil down to "evolutionist's can't prove anything, therefore the bible must be true". These statements would be made regardless of what can or cannot be proved. It is much easier to just say whatever the preacher/shaman/witchdoctor/congressman says, than to consider the evidence.

I don't think the problem is whether higher order beings can perceive a joke. It is the lower order ones, that will believe anything that anyone tells them.

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04/23, 10:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Evolved apes

"though for the record i am so very sure we are evolved apes"

I'm sure of it too. And some of us might be a bit more evolved than others. ;)

Proof that unevolved apes live in our midst

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04/23, 10:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not a hoax

The link was different when it was posted, and the whole site was a baptist site.

I believe someone setup a mirror so his site wouldn't be getting hits over it, but I'm not sure.

zaren
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04/23, 10:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
It figures...

I made up another t-shirt design in response to this site, and it takes macnn two days to put a link up about it :)

-----
Is Darwin an evolutionary OS?

wrycooter
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04/23, 10:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Landover Baptist clue

Its is sort of a layered parody, where the biggest hint that it may be a parody, is also a red herring stressing its possible genuineness. The OBJECTIVE site is just a bit too concerned with closing the Landover Baptist site, where the parody is much more obvious. The OBJECTIVE site, in comparison, seems more like genuine fundy kneejerk.

ewestby

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04/23, 10:36pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
It's an impressive hoax.

Someone else pointed out a good AppleLink article on the thing:

http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2002/04/20020423140855.shtml

Also note http://www.landoverbaptist.org/, which is the site that the "creationist" site is supposedly fighting. An amazingly detailed and impressive hoax. (Makes Mac users look a bit dense for getting so worked up about it ... but I'll bet more than a few fundamentalist Christians have been duped too.)

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04/23, 10:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
haha

hilarious... absolutely hilarious.... regardless if its a hoax or not.

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04/23, 10:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
funny stuff

people will say anything to get attention.

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04/23, 10:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
Heh

I sent a lengthy e-mail to every e-mail address on his website. The scary thing is, the Church of Satans website is made with a MAC! I was gonna bring up (and prove with the HTML source) that it was made with a PC, but I did research and it was made on a mac. Durn the luck, i hate these far out idiots. They give christians a bad name.

horvatic
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04/24, 12:07am | report spam | close Reply |
Paley needs some help!

I've read some pretty far fetched stories but this one is a real doozy! I think he should look at the real devil Microsoft. The latest news is that they want to audit all of Oregons schools and charge them for doing so or else! Nice little blackmail story if you ask me. Now who is the devel? I think Paley needs to see the good humor man myself. Either that or he's watched to many reruns of the movie Dragnet! Pagens and all.
:grin:

ssviland

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04/24, 02:43am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Hmmm

Wow. This was an interesting hoax. I'm pretty skeptical and it had me going. I actually sent the "author" an email without first checking the validity of the site, and nailed him for not checking his facts! OK, got me. The email bounced back of course, and I came to check out these posts and went back to see the evidence that the site was some sort of parody. Pretty elaborate too. But it did teach me a lesson. I will be careful not to criticize someone on their facts if I haven't checked the facts myself, like to see if the person I'm checking even exists. For the record I am a Christian, a Creationist and a Mac user. I hope those of you who are not Christians understand that we DO NOT think this way � well most of us. I admit that if no one who claims to be a Christian ever went of the deep end I wouldn't have been duped by this. But fortunately I have seldom encountered anyone who is really that far out, except for maybe the Creationist who claims that Adam and Eve DID NOT have belly buttons since they were created and not birthed... Well, that could be true, but how would anyone KNOW THAT? Well, I don't. I also to Amelia Earheart. But I do know that it is alarming that someone would go to this much effort to create an elaborate series of parody sites and that so many of us would be so easily convinced that the sites are real. Ouch.

cycy
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04/24, 02:52am | report spam | close Reply |
heh

Well, I don't believe in God or the devil or creationism (I'm religious, but we don't believe in that kind of stuff), but if you want to believe in that stuff, I don't care. Just don't try to teach it as science or push it onto everybody else is all I ask.

Presuming this is a satire, the fact that people couldn't tell if it was a hoax or not demonstrates how over-the-top some of these folks are. I think it makes valid statement about extremism.

Of course, if is *is* for real, then it also makes a strong (unintended) statement about extremism as well.

chas_m
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04/24, 03:13am | report spam | close Reply |
Uh ... hello?

To anyone who doesn't think this is a (very very good) parody ...

Please note the following:
*ALL email links are invalid.
*There is NO "Fellowship Baptist Church" on register with the Baptists.

Finally, if you really believe this guy is for real, please email him (if you can) and point out that:
1. His site is running on Open Source software and an Open Source OS.
2. "William H. Gates III" when converted to its numerical values (A=1, B=2 etc) adds up to 666. So no luck on the other side of the fence either, chum.

It appears that the only people who are ACTUALLY going to heaven are the Amish. Serves us all right. :)

yandfeng

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04/24, 05:24am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Professor, go home,

and do more research, in heaven's name. It's not like we're all atheists and all communists. If I remember things correctly, last time I read we shouldn't be discussing religion (e.g. atheism) and politics (e.g. communism).

Just for the fact that Apple's codenamed something "Darwin" - is that your cue to throw in such a whole load of old socks to Apple? You should do your research, get less irritable and less offensive, and if you're going to bash at Apple at all, at least refer to some up-to-date, and well-provable facts. Any idiot with a tenth of a brain can call Apple an athiest communist, or any other garden-variety insult. It takes a man and a decent, full-functioning brain to create justifiable and well-founded statements for or against everyone's favourite fruit company.

Think about that the next time you post something this offensive to MacNN, or, rather, to the whole Mac community, online, offline, or both.

nakku
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04/24, 07:48am | report spam | close Reply |
if you still think

it's serious, check the page about the kangaroos in the Middle East.

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04/24, 08:40am | report spam | close Reply |
A work of Genius

Just read some of the other pages - I loved the Mac stuff, but take a look at "Reclaiming Halloween"

"Bazooka Jesus" and "Boo, I'm John the Baptist" made me snort coffee out my nose.

MacNN.com Reader
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04/24, 08:49am | report spam | close Reply |
Now that's funny!

That's one of the most entertaining reads I've seen in a long time! Bwaahaaahaaaa!!!

sultan229
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04/24, 09:11am | report spam | close Reply |
Now I know it's fake...

I looked at their online store, they want $12.50 for a coffee mug! Surely a sign of a parody!

joeldberry

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04/24, 10:14am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Oh no...

According to the count, there are 33 responses to this article... that means that MacNN has mysterious ties to the Masons because of the obvious nature of the number "33" which we all know to be occult, dark and anti-Christian (forget the fact that it happens to come after 32 and 34--these cannot possibly be related to such a display of evil)

Also, if I, as a Christian, recollect, isn't it Jesus Christ who essentially preached "Think Different"? Isn't He the one Who told us to Love, not hate. Help, not hurt. Forgive, not judge?

Maybe it's me, but I think I remember His saying that somewhere... Matthew 5 maybe? I may just be using a "perversion" of the Scriptures, though... my Bible may not be the right Bible...

I really feel for the guy... he's reaching...

joeldberry

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04/24, 10:15am | report spam | close Reply | delete
oops

that should read "after 32 and before 34." Sorry, I am not above making mistakes...

joeldberry

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04/24, 10:18am | report spam | close Reply | delete
A Hoax?

Have you actually ever read some of the REAL stuff these people put out? They do actually believe some things that are as far out as this... I could name names, I used to believe things like this...

Good joke, though... Scary, but good, nonetheless...

TheAdmiral
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04/24, 10:27am | report spam | close Reply |
yeah, it's a hoax, but

the unfortunate fact is that there are a few people out there who claim to be Christians who say things like this... they give the rest of us a bad name... This is a clever hoax, and admittedly funny. Hopefully people will start to pay better attention to things like this and know when to laugh, and when to stand up for themselves.

ssviland

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04/24, 01:31pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: "heh" [by cycy]

Presuming this is a satire, the fact that people couldn't tell if it was a hoax or not demonstrates how over-the-top some of these folks are. I think it makes valid statement about extremism.

Actually, I presumed it was not a hoax at first because, one, it was posted as news on Macnn, and two, because I didn't look closely at the rest of the site. My mistake was not looking as closely as I should have. No harm, but it was a good lesson.

Well, I don't believe in God or the devil or creationism (I'm religious, but we don't believe in that kind of stuff), but if you want to believe in that stuff, I don't care. Just don't try to teach it as science or push it onto everybody else is all I ask.

Of course you may not want to teach it (Creation) as science, since you don't believe it. But if we who do believe it did not teach it as science then we wold be inconsistent. To be honest it's hard to define who is or isn't pushing. By posting here both you and I are pushing something. You know what? It's okay. If you don't agree then pay no attention. I don't believe in censorship and I hope you don't either. That's why Christians left Europe and settled in America nearly 400 years ago, so that we might have that freedom.

Of course, if is *is* for real, then it also makes a strong (unintended) statement about extremism as well.

I'm very glad it's not real. Unfortunately there are people who believe in all sorts of things from UFO's to non-existent conspiricies. Fortunately this is not one of them. It would actually be very funny if so many people didn't take it so seriously or some think that Christians really think that way.

lkrupp
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04/24, 01:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Don't laugh

If this web site is legitimate then Apple legal has to pounce on it quickly. Anybody remember the damage done to General Mills over its quarter moon and stars logo being labeled satanic? I t was later found that Amway was at the bottom of a lot of it. General Mills sued Amway over this.

There are tens of thousands of weak minded people who actually take this stuff as the gospel truth. These are the same people who believe that the government has placed Tesla coils at the north pole for mind control of the U.S. population.

It's both funny and scary.

rickolseth
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04/24, 02:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
I too....

...initially thought it was real and even composed a quite well thought out reply ;-) which I sent out and got bounced back, whereupon I took another look.
I think it's a site put up by the guy this site is supposedly against, but I'm not wasting any more energy on it...

Yes, he makes Christians look bad, and a lot of Christians don't need his help. But the point of Christianity is that we are all loosers (me too, and you, bucko!) and God reached down to do something aboout it, not that "Christians are better".

A comment about the theory of evolution: it is a theory, not a fact. Sorry, guys. Science studies what can be reproduced and viewed; if there were no observers to an event, science can't measure it and can't speak with authority on it. So, whether the earth is 5,000 or 4.5 billion years old is going to have to be taken on FAITH no matter which side of the fence you're on. And 3 billion mutated fruit flies have only produced mutated fruitflies, not a new species.

Intellectual tolerance usually disappears when the group advocating it reaches establishment status. It was true in Gallieo's day, and it's true today on the university campus.

There's a section in the Epistles (that's in the New testament) where Paul talks about someone who is preaching the Gospel (this is Christianspeak for "good news", btw) out of evil motives, but he says that God will use even this kind of preaching for good. At least it's gotten a lot of people's attention.

I do find it unfortunate that MaCNN posted this as news, and the item (along with these posts) will probably disappear without a trace or an acknowlegement of the hoax.

Fyzycyst
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04/24, 02:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hoax status unclear

I find bad e-mail addy's at web sites all the time. And I'm virtually certain that I've heard of Dr. Dinosaur before. The fact that nobody can track down "Fellowship University" isn't surprising. Many of these radical fringe churches often have their own non-accredited schools/seminaries where they ordain more wackos to spread their poisoned version of the Gospel. This is not the first time there's been such mention about Apple (or Pokemon, for that matter). And I'm talking about people who really mean it and who's views are most definitely NOT a hoax.

If this IS a hoax, it's in poor taste. As a born-again Christian and a physicist, I've had some rather heated discussions over the years with those espousing Creation (so-called) Science.

Further, as a parody, this fails because it is SO realistic that it is not readily distinguished as humorous. Kind of like seeing a picture drawn of someone and laughing because it is obviously a caricature, only to have the subject turn around and to your horror you discover that they really DO look like that.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...

- Eric.

flur
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04/24, 04:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
think different

the funky 'evil mac' site is appalling, but don't let that throw you on the sub-issue of creation vs. evolution. somebody pointed out that the site may not be anti-mac, but it is definitely anti-christian. i think it is a plot to subvert mac users away from holding creationist views.

the parallels between Creation theory and the Mac are startling:

- 'creationism' is the lesser accepted way of thinking in our culture. it is also a more logical, far superior way of approaching life.
- those who have examined the evidence and ignored the hype from mainstream marketing/education drones have made a solid choice against their popular garbage, and frankly could never go back to the old way of thinking.
- the competition just has WAY too many bugs.
- creationists know that truth isn't tied to the fact that everyone *else* thinks something is true.

sounds like what i went through choosing my favorite computer system, how about you? ; ) it takes a similar mindset to understand both - you have to be willing to shed what's popular for what's right.

(ok, granted - absolute truth and man-made machines don't have much more in common than the above points, but i thought it was interesting...)

so, back to a direct response to that subversion site, just on that one issue of how-we-came-to-be, its only fair to present the true views of creationists:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

check it out. you may be surprised.
"think different!"

flur
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04/24, 04:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
working link

that link got an extra " in it somehow... here's another try at making it work for you:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

MacNN.com Reader
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04/24, 04:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
I liked it!

Very good joke. It made me had a good laugh!

ssviland

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04/24, 05:33pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: think different

That is good, flur! I have thought about that too. While the stats may say that Christianity is the most popular reigion in the world, most of those identifying themselves as Christians do so as compared to other world religions. But the lifestyle of Christianity is not popular at all. I have thought about how much like being a Christian (or Creationist or Pro Life) is like being a Mac user. Macs and Mac users get bashed by people who are misinformed or have never used a Mac. You hear the same empty arguments over and over that people will believe no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary.

I appreciate your point. It is funny but true!

I also agree with Eric's point that it fails as a Parody, since it isn't quite obvious enough in many places. Of course some of the so-called external links give it away, and some of the bios are really obvious. I admit that my wife and I had to laugh at a lot of it, including the Apple article. But I see your point, Eric, that this could be, rather, an attack on Christianity or Creationism, or even a wacked out perspective by an individual who has invented these people to present his/her point of view. If you look closely at many of the photos they have been doctored. The last guy on the bio page is pretty obvious and another guy looks like part of his face might actually be Reagan's!

Jon J
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04/24, 05:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
On "Theory" and Science

A comment about the theory of evolution: it is a theory, not a fact. Sorry, guys. Science studies what can be reproduced and viewed; if there were no observers to an event, science can't measure it and can't speak with authority on it. So, whether the earth is 5,000 or 4.5 billion years old is going to have to be taken on FAITH no matter which side of the fence you're on. And 3 billion mutated fruit flies have only produced mutated fruitflies, not a new species.

"Sorry" yourself, for you have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding about science in general, and evolution in particular. Calling something a "theory" does not mean that it is just a guess. Gravitation is a theory, too. Yet we don't go flying off into space when we sneeze. At least I don't.

Science is the _process_ by which we propose hypotheses and systematically attempt to prove or disprove them. It is an OBJECTIVE approach to understanding the universe, where no one has private or privilieged information, and any result is freely open to re-examination. If it were not this way, science (and its offshoot, technology) could never have progressed to the point where we are today, discussing these points on this forum.

As to whether or not university campuses are intolerant bastions of the establishment, that may or may not be so for non-science topics; I don't know what happens over in sociology or modern languages. But the definition of science means that anyone who can make a convincing argument, BACKED BY OBJECTIVE, REPRODUCIBLE FACTS, will get his day in court. And creationism has failed every single test. Plainly put, it is junk science. It survives because people think we need to be "fair" and give every "opinion" equal weight. Sorry, but that's not how it is.

If you care to learn more about why silly ideas persist, read Michael Shermer, expecially "Why People Believe Wierd Things."

Oh, and a final way that science is distinct from faith: we are encouraged to actively question what has come before in our fields, and to constantly consider the possibility that we have been wrong, and to try and correct and update (even going back to first principles). Many, many times there have been revolutions in various scientific disciplines, where old notions have been tossed aside when they failed the tests of the evidence before them. That is how a system remains healthy, robust and keeps growing.

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04/24, 05:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
A Christian Mac Guy

Dear Sir,

I am not really offended by slander directed at apple. After all, I am a Christian not an Appleite, although I do use and like Macintosh computers, consider myself a mac enthusiast and work at a Macintosh Computer Store (Mac Made Easy, Inc. www.maceasy.com) in order to pay my way through Bible college.

But I am offended at something as a Christian --

-- How can you publish an article like this, with its judgemental and condemning tone, and add on the same page "have you accepted Christ yet?" TO THE MAC USER YOU HAVE JUST PORTRAYED CHRIST AS:
A GOD WHO WILL OVERLOOK ANY GOOD AND ONLY SEARCH FOR AND POINT OUT THE EVIL IN A PERSON WITH INTENT TO CONDEMN
UTTERLY ALOOF - UNWILLING TO ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND A PERSON - QUICK TO CONDEMN - would you want to accept a savior who is like this? Is this what Christ is really like? No!

-- Remember that people see Christ not just in the facts you say, but in the way you say them and live them-- in your life. My brother, I sense your zeal for truth and for exposing evil wherever it may be hiding, but please do your ministry in such a way that people will see Jesus AS HE REALLY IS� the God who humbled himself, taking on the very nature of a servant, in order to identify with us (Phil 2:6-7); the God who washed our feet in humility (John 13), the God who died and took the punishment for our sins upon Himself (John 3:16, Isaiah 53). Yes He is Holy, righteous, hating sin, full of justice� and He is also Love (1 John 4:8).

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04/24, 06:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Doh!

I wrote comment 47 before realizing this is a hoax -- ha! Well, the above comment still applies to anyone who thinks like this or anyone who has been offended by something similar to it.

Aloha!

rickolseth
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04/25, 10:38am | report spam | close Reply |
dear john j

as you say (and i agree wholehartedly):

...the definition of science means that anyone who can make a convincing argument, BACKED BY OBJECTIVE, REPRODUCIBLE FACTS...

I still maintain: evolutionary research has not produced any objective reproducible facts proving cross-species evolution. Plenty of observations and deuctions, but nothing reproducible. Adaptation goes on all the time, but it proves nothing but that animals are adaptable.

I can't help but notice that you gave me no examples. If evolution is true, there should be thousands of transitional forms in the fossil record, not just a few, ambiguous fossils of a feathery lizard... again: observation, deduction, not experimentation and reproducible facts.

Any discussion about the (non-observable) past needs to be prefaced by the admission that evolution is just as much a religion as creationism.

It's faith. Faith in what, is the question. You believe that evolution is true. I believe that "in the beginning, God created the heavens and earth..." I maintain that a Person larger than myself is taking the trouble to communicate with me through the Bible. I can still question and test what is and is not true and experiment, but I have faith in God just as (in a lesser way) I have faith in my wife: I have a personal relationship with her, I have spent time getting to know her, and she is worthy of my trust. She may annoy me, or someone may tell me that they saw her with another man, but she doesn't get "tossed aside " because I have faith that there is an explanation for this slander. That is what makes Christian faith different: it's personal.

And just because a position is held by idiots or unpleasant people does not discredit the position: most of these types of people, unfortunately, believe that 2 plus 2 equals 4.

*grin* this is refreshing!

rickolseth
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04/25, 10:52am | report spam | close Reply |
... and another thing...

I's the belief in a rational God who rules the universe by law that has allowed Western science to progress (though some might dispute that we're indeed progressing) to it's present level.

That's why the Arabian culture was inventing mathematics while the Europeans were still making sacrifices to the earth spirits...

tho like all things, it's a generalization, i realize... gotta go!

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Creationism supporter slams Apple for ethics

updated 08:20 pm EDT, Tue April 23, 2002

Apple slammed for \'ethics\'

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