Exclusive Deal

While supplies last, save 40% off over 40 iPhone 5 and iPhone 4/4S cases and chargers as well as Samsung S III cases at Kensington.com. Use coupon code 'SAVE40%' at checkout to receive this exclusive discount.

toggle

AAPL Stock: 442.14 ( 0 )

MacNN News

http://www.macnn.com/articles/02/03/30/java.creator/

Java creator talks Windows

updated 02:20 am EST, Sat March 30, 2002

", 0, 0);

In an interview primarily focused on his views of archrival Microsoft Corporation and its .Net strategy, Java creator James Gosling mentions that he is switching to the Macintosh platform. "I personally actually read the [Windows] XP license and decided I couldn't sign it. So I've been shifting over to Mac."

by MacNN Staff

Post tools:

TAGS :

audio

toggle

Comments

geezer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

03/30, 03:07am | report spam | close Reply |
harumpf!

I personally actually have read the news for years... therefore, I never *ever* considered using Windows.

Shocking as it may seem, I *am* a sentient being.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 05:05am | report spam | close Reply |
balls

the man's got 'em. nice

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 07:27am | report spam | close Reply |
99.9% of what's in .Net

in terms of what you can do has been available for years in J2EE. Apple should push WebObjects/ProjectBuilder as an alternative to .Net developer tools.

The best part of using J2EE is that it doesn't lock you down to a single server platform and client-server interaction, which is the real purpose behind Microsoft's .Net push.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 11:15am | report spam | close Reply |
.Net seems to me

to basically be a WebObjects/Cocoa rip-off. Bravo for switching to the [best dev platform to-date] mac.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 12:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
One convert... a day

Wow... they report about Mac converts one at a time!!!

Times must be desperate.

pundit

methnen
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2001

0

03/30, 01:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
You are correct...

One convert is not that big a deal unless that convert is someone influental in the computing world. The creator of Java would seem to fit that bill.

Jamie

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 01:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
One major convert

Yes they report about mac converts. They report about important converts such as Gosling or whoever. They matter in the court of tech public opinion. Unimportant shmucks like you and me they could care less about -well maybe you.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 01:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wow

Incredible! Good job and welcome!
:)

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 01:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Borg

Resistance is futile, assimilation is inevitable..... you are now Mac of Borg.

MacMoose

actionlog
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

03/30, 03:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bias runs both ways

Can't comment on .NET vs. Cocoa yet, but it does a lot of stuff that WebObjects does, and better. It may be a rip-off, but who cares if it means you have to do less work to get better results?

WebObjects may be an Apple child, but it's the b****** kid that the company wishes would go away, by the way it's supported. (Yes, I use it.)

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 03:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: bias runs both ways

I've seen nothing to indicate .NET is better. It seems like a Java rip-off to me. Except for the fact that I can trust the makers of Java not to put in Windows-only extensions to make it proprietary.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/30, 11:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
.Net is Trash

Instead of stopping at the damage MS has caused to standardized HTML, DHTML, CSS, and Java The Monopoly is extending XML and SOAP with proprietary Windows-only "features".

Can't comment on .NET vs. Cocoa yet, but it does a lot of stuff that WebObjects does, and better. It may be a rip-off, but who cares if it means you have to do less work to get better results?

Cocoa has nothing to do with .Net. Cocoa is a set of APIs for OS X development. ProjectBuilder (just one of many IDEs for Cocoa development) and WebObjects (the server-side development tool) are the components that allow the creation of J2EE and J2SE apps that can be loaded on demand to desktops or run server-side.

ProjectBuilder is a RAD IDE for client-side apps. Like .Net's IDE environment, it allows for development using multiple languages (Java, Pascal, C, and others I am less familiar with). Although ProjectBuilder is a client-side environment for Macs only, the server side and WebObjects-enabled client-server interaction is not polluted with MS-only extensions. WebObjects Distribution, the server-side aspect of WebObjects, runs on OS X Server and client, Solaris, and even Windows NT/2000. And WebObjects allows unlimited connections at a $699 pricepoint, significantly less than what MS requests for a comparable product that allows only 10 incoming connections to a server. Still, I wish Apple would actually support the WebObjects distribution on Linux as well.

As an added bonus, the combined ProjectBuilder/WebObjects development environment uses industry-standard implementations of Java, Pascal, C, etc that are 100% portable with no changes to other client-side development tools (Metrowerks, MS VB, MS VB.Net, Borland's tools, gcc, etc).

With .Net, all you get is a monopoly-extending development tool and a new language, C#, that will likely change in implementation with every new revision of the tools. Forced upgrades are the only way MS can make money now.

A lot of people spout .Net's advantages over other tools because of the ubiquity of the Windows platform. Consider this: Gartner reports that 97% of all PDA software sold last year was for the Palm OS. WinCE is approaching 50% marketshare in the PDA market, and with these numbers in mind it's quite clear that Palm users are 30 times more likely to purchase third-party software than those running WinCE PDAs.

Windows may own 90%+ of the desktop market, but the majority of Windows users never use, let alone purchase, third party software. That's one of the dangers of developing for a closed, monopolistic environment.

I don't mind people bashing the Mac for enterprise, but for once I'd at least like to see people doing computing in enterprise actually get educated about Mac solutions instead of mistakenly believing MS is the answer to everything.

actionlog
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

03/31, 02:45am | report spam | close Reply |
Try it before you talk

Cocoa has nothing to do with .Net. Cocoa is a set of APIs for OS X development.

And .NET is a set of APIs for Windows development. I'd say Cocoa and .NET have a lot to compare directly. You're probably thinking that ASP.NET is all .NET is. Learn about the whole thing before you criticize it.

ProjectBuilder (just one of many IDEs for Cocoa development) and WebObjects (the server-side development tool) are the components that allow the creation of J2EE and J2SE apps that can be loaded on demand to desktops or run server-side. ProjectBuilder is a RAD IDE for client-side apps. Like .Net's IDE environment, it allows for development using multiple languages (Java, Pascal, C, and others I am less familiar with). Although ProjectBuilder is a client-side environment for Macs only, the server side and WebObjects-enabled client-server interaction is not polluted with MS-only extensions. Still, I wish Apple would actually support the WebObjects distribution on Linux as well.

Spare me the buzzwords. WebObjects is nothing special anymore - many products have caught up to it while it languished like so many other good Apple products, and in fact has lost quite a bit in the move to Pure Java/OS X. Visual Studio .NET is miles away better than ProjectBuilder, which is dog-slow, buggy, and doesn't even completely support WebObjects. And saying WebObjects is not "polluted" with proprietary software is misleading: While you can distribute an app as a JAR, it's still got Apple's proprietary frameworks in it (which is all WebObjects really is, after all), and I don't see much difference other than being able to run on a few more platforms, although I do see an obvious anti-MS sentiment.

Do you use WebObjects professionally? I wish Apple would actually support WebObjects on its own hardware. If anything drives me to .NET, it will be Apple's non-support; I don't want to be burned professionaly by being loyal to a company that doesn't reciprocate. MS is notorious for a lot of things, but neglecting its developers is not one of them.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/31, 06:18am | report spam | close Reply |
.NET

Microsoft will probably try to buy the .net TLD from InterNic. Stop supporting them people! They are a monopoly that needs to be stoped. I don't want to live in a world where I have to sign a contract with Microsoft to use my coffee pot or TV. If we let them dominate the Consumer and Pro markets like this, then they'll quickly jump into other household things.

nunki
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 1999

0

03/31, 07:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
....

Just curious... what is objectionable about the XP license?

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

03/31, 11:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
w*** on Apple Hardware

Actionlog,
What do you mean you wish Apple would support WebObjects on its own hardware? As I use w*** 5 just fine on my PowerBook G4. If you are talking about all the bugs with w*** I understand completely.

Daniel

actionlog
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

04/01, 01:44am | report spam | close Reply |
w*** bugs

Daniel: Yep, the bugs. I also use WO5 on a PBG4. Apple obviously doesn't QA (at least not by any reasonable standards), as every new patch introduces new and exciting bugs, and Apple does not communicate when it plans to fix them (ignoring that it shouldn't even take months to fix a bug that was only introduced in the last update).

My peeve is with people who blindly throw out WebObjects as the Apple alternative to .NET or a sign that Apple is serious about enterprise, which makes it very apparent that they have never used w***, and are simply regurgitating marketing copy.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

04/01, 09:52am | report spam | close Reply |
WebObjects

Is a NeXT product, not an Apple one.

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

04/01, 01:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
objectional XP license

nunki, Microsoft requires you use each licensed CD-ROM of their OS on only one machine. And to enforce it, they have a registration process which requires you to dial in or connect to Microsoft's website. If you don't register, your computer will be incapable of running Windows XP after a set time which only Microsoft knows. Also if you make six hardware changes to your PC using XP, you need to reregister the machine to make sure Microsoft knows you are still only using it on that machine. Microsoft can at any time charge a fee to renew that license. What's more, is if you try to install the same CD onto a different machine it won't let you use that same CD in a licensed mode. Of course this makes it impossible to pirate, and it makes it impossible not to pay Microsoft a new license for each copy of the product. With the Mac, you can buy a boxed package of the OS that came with the Mac, and it will install on any Mac that will take that minimum Mac OS. Granted the CDs that come with Macs nowadays are specific to the model, they are still installable on any machines of the same model as well. The license isn't enforced the same way XP enforces its license. This license procedure also applies to Office XP, and already some people have found their license expired in the middle of their cross country flight, and they had no way to renew their license until they landed!

MacNN.com Reader
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2001

0

04/01, 02:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
I use Webobjects

and haven't run into any showstopping bugs. Maybe there are some remedial classes you guys can take for some help?

Leave it to a couple of Microsoft shills to argue a beta Microsoft product like .Net is better than a version-5 Apple one upon which all of its technology is based.

Show More Comments

Login Here

toggle

Network Headlines

05/23	AT&T GoPhone may get iPhone, LTE/HSPA...
05/23	Brazilian email may back Apple performing...
05/23	iOS 6 Flyover coverage expands to more...
05/23	Google posts Chrome 28 beta, integrates...
05/23	Google in 'holding pattern' with Apple...

Show All

05/23	AT&T GoPhone may get iPhone, LTE/HSPA...
05/23	Google posts Chrome 28 beta, integrates...
05/23	Google in 'holding pattern' with Apple...
05/23	Report claims details of iPhone 5S,...
05/23	iAd gets Media Ratings Council aaccreditation...

Show All

toggle

Java creator talks Windows

updated 02:20 am EST, Sat March 30, 2002

harumpf!

balls

99.9% of what's in .Net

.Net seems to me

One convert... a day

You are correct...

One major convert

Wow

Borg

Bias runs both ways

Re: bias runs both ways

.Net is Trash

Try it before you talk

.NET

....

w*** on Apple Hardware

w*** bugs

WebObjects

objectional XP license

I use Webobjects

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace

Java creator talks Windows

updated 02:20 am EST, Sat March 30, 2002

Related Articles

Recent Articles

harumpf!

balls

99.9% of what's in .Net

.Net seems to me

One convert... a day

You are correct...

One major convert

Wow

Borg

Bias runs both ways

Re: bias runs both ways

.Net is Trash

Try it before you talk

.NET

....

w*** on Apple Hardware

w*** bugs

WebObjects

objectional XP license

I use Webobjects

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace