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Apple posts QT 5.0 Preview 2

updated 08:00 am EST, Thu December 7, 2000

Apple has posted QuickTime 5.0 Public Preview 2, "incorporating a number of enhancements suggested by thousands of [Public Preview 1] users." A Windows version is now available as well.

by MacNN Staff

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12/07, 09:02am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Window widgets

Anybody else notice this (well, everyone probably has :)

The Aqua controls are gone, and the standard mac close box on the left, zoom and windowshade on the right are back.

Think it might have any reflection on a change in OSX?

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12/07, 09:32am | report spam | close Reply | delete
sreen rotation?

i just read somewhere else that QT 5 Pro has the ability to do a screen rotation? also, that it will take mpeg1 movies and save them to DV with sound. has anyone seen/confirmed these features?

antonio

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12/07, 10:00am | report spam | close Reply | delete
MPEG-1 to DV

Yes it can convert MPG files to DV format (on a IBM laptop). It works great and I hope QT 5 Pro utilizes dual processing because it takes it a while.

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12/07, 10:14am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Window widgets

QT5 PP2 just follows the guidelines for the OS it's running on (the Windows version is also more Windows like than QT4), so the OS X version will still have the gumdrops.

JLL

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12/07, 10:29am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Most Serious

Well, the most serious iussue for QT5 (or 4 for that matter) is that it doesn't work behind a firewall. We use VERY standard stuff (Netscape Enterprise Proxy, Checkpoint Firewall1) and it won't work. No streaming.

While they DO have a place to enter firewall addresses, they omit the fact that there is a necessary authentication phase that they are ignoring. I've written them about this, but I suspect nopbody is listening in Cuprtino.

Bottom line is that we are one of the bigger content creation/publishing houses in the world. And any streaming video I produce HAS to be done in Real because that stuff DOES work while QT won't. It's as simple as that. And the issues here apparently are NOT going to be addressed in QT5.

And being know as the local Mac zealot, it really burns my butt that I have to "advise" other producers to ignore QT and use Real.

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12/07, 10:45am | report spam | close Reply | delete
SoundFonts?

Apple says it supports Soundfonts. Anybody knows how?
thanks Marc

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12/07, 10:50am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Firewall

I am using Personal Firewall, and Quicktime works with perfectly. No such problems as mentioned above.

I am not an expert, but you might have a misconfiguration somewhere.
Correct me someone if I am wrong.

Quicktime 5 pR2 seems much much faster, than pR1.

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12/07, 10:55am | report spam | close Reply | delete
QT5 and MPEG files

Why cannot quicktime open many of my MPEG files encoded on a pc ? the very bad thing is that not only it will not open them but it will crash the machine !! This is ridiculous ! I had hoped QT5 would solve the problem but it does not :-((((

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12/07, 11:09am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Final Cut Pro?

Has anyone tried the Latest QT5 Preview Realse 2 with Final Cut Pro?

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12/07, 11:15am | report spam | close Reply | delete
QT5 on Win32

Glad this is only a preview, because everytime I go to watch TechTV which is in the QTTV links, it crashes and causes horrible screen redraw. Everytime you relaunch QT without restarting the main window is transparent, it even messed up the timing on my monitor. I love Apple as much as the next man, but f**k can't they do anything right these days, less concentrating on fancy colours and cases and more concentrating on the task at hand me thinks.

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12/07, 11:20am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Firewall and QT5

To the gentlemen that is having troubles with QuickTime Streaming and Firewalls.

If all else fails, check out Apple's Proxy product. I belive it's distributed in source form (and binary) at www.publicsource.apple.com, and is essentially a handy litle UNIX (or Mac OS X) program that works like a QT5 redirector.

I've used this sucessfully in many locations to allow QT streaming to pierce the firewall without having to worry about mucking about with the firewall settings. Just install it on a machine that both internal and internet IP traffic can access (like on of the FireWall machines) and point QT to it. Easy. :)

Later,

dylan@realcafes.com

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12/07, 11:27am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Yes! QT5 with Final Cut.

Yes, it works. :)

iMovie, Final Cut Pro (and Premiere and After Effects, for that matter) all work nicely with QT5.

As a matter of fact, the newly rewritten DV codec's in QT5 look quite a bit nicer then their QT4 counterparts, if I do say so myself. They look a lot less "interlaced" when viewing and editing on the CRT. Speed is also nicely increased under QT5 (pp1 at least, haven't _really_ tried pp2 yet except to verify that everything worked), and I've sucesfully seen:

1. Capture
2. Edit
3. Camera Control (although I don't think QT is responsible for this)
4. Through camera playback (for monitoring your edits on an NTSC monitor, which, IMHO, is _far_ more useful then watching it on a computer monitor, Apple Cinema Display or no)
5. Camera Dump (for recording your final work to DV format)
6. Batch capture in Final cut

Basically, that sums up all the stuff that's really neccesary. :)

More or less, I've never seen a problem in Final Cut that I could trace to QT5.

Later,

dylan@realcafes.com

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12/07, 12:00pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
re: Most Serious

I believe it's your firewall configuration. If you can't open the appropriate port for UDP Streaming you can always use the HTTP Proxy option. It is apparently not as efficient as UDP (so I've heard) but it works for me behind our firewall.

BTW - our firewall is also configured to block out Real media streaming as well. Again, I use the HTTP option to access it. My personal firewall at home by default does the same including blocking out FTP. I have to configure it to work within my needs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

MacNN.com Reader�6165 Most Serious 12/7/00,

Well, the most serious iussue for QT5 (or 4 for that matter) is that it doesn't work behind a firewall. We use VERY standard stuff (Netscape Enterprise Proxy, Checkpoint Firewall1) and it won't work. No streaming.

While they DO have a place to enter firewall addresses, they omit the fact that there is a necessary authentication phase that they are ignoring. I've written them about this, but I suspect nopbody is listening in Cuprtino.

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12/07, 12:01pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
QT 5 and Firewall Problem

Hello,

yes it seems to be true, that QT still doesn�t support proxy or firewall structures, that use authentication. This is very bad, as this issue has been addressed over an over in the QT forums on the Apple webpage. Seems that Apple hasn�t learned to listen the easy way, now they will learn it the hard way.
BTW Real and Media Player both support this feature and it is not too uncommmon with corporate networks.

Greetings

Thomas

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12/07, 12:02pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
QuickTime 5 preview 2

I tried the installer and in stops the download sating " VISAData error ocurrred" and it stops the installation. Any one else had this problem?

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12/07, 12:04pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
QT 5 Interface

A Must have for Windows user IMHO.
Thanks God the interface is back to match (partially at least) the standard of the OS it runs on. So under Win you will have (it was about time) only one window (although brushed-alu look) with standard control widget.
I love QT but I could not stand anymore to lose the ability to collapse to window Bar (under MacOS) and to iconize (under Win).

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12/07, 12:08pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
QT 5 and Firewall Problem

Hello,

yes it seems to be true, that QT still doesn�t support proxy or firewall structures, that use authentication. This is very bad, as this issue has been addressed over an over in the QT forums on the Apple webpage. Seems that Apple hasn�t learned to listen the easy way, now they will learn it the hard way.
BTW Real and Media Player both support this feature and it is not too uncommmon with corporate networks.

Greetings

Thomas

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12/07, 12:17pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
VISEData error

I had that problem too. Seems to be a hiccup in downloading or something. Just continue installing. it will start where it left off. i had to do this several times before everything was downloaded.

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12/07, 12:44pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
MPEG4?

Does QT5 play what some call MPEG4 video. I can play some of this type with Media Player for the Mac using a special veiwer, but I would prefer staying with QT. I'm still not clear if the format known as MPEG4 is the correct name for it...anyone help out on this?

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12/07, 12:48pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Firewall

I''m behind a Novell firewall. Streaming works fine form me!

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12/07, 12:55pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
ADC version

Is this public preview 2 any different from the version recently posted on the Apple Developers Connection site?

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12/07, 12:56pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
PREVIEW release

I know that some of you are complaining, some of you are adamant and others are constructive. I like constructive, but I can't stand everything else, especially on a preview release. This isn't meant to be the final beautiful product that we will all put our hands on in the end. I know there are bugs, but what did you expect? I do however understand the issue about authenticated firewalls though and wish that they would fix that, but between PR1 and PR2 look how many changes were made, you never know what kind of stuff apple will pull. Sorry for the rant, but total negativity is just my pet peave..

Marc C

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12/07, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
VISEDataerror

I've gotten it a couple of times. Just restart the download and it will pick up where it left off.

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12/07, 01:16pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Final Cut Pro (and MP)

There's a known problem with QT5 pr1 "locking up" MP macs. So I tried pr2 on our new dual 500 MHz. I didn't experience any lockups in FCP, but I did experience problems during logging where the deck controls would stop working until I pulled down a couple of menus, etc to get its attention again.

Because of that, I reverted to QT 4 for now, but I didn't have any major show-stoppers with FCP and pr2.

(I did experience a problem where Cinema4D would hang after several hours of rendering. But I could kill off C4D and the system wasn't hung. I'm not sure if it is a C4D-specific problem, a QT5 pr2 problem, or what.)

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12/07, 01:50pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Eeesh

Looks like Thomas is the only person who understands what I've said.. as long as they refuse to provide authenticating firewall support, this 4 billion dollar content creation company that I work for will NOT use QUICKTIME. And preview, schemview.. this issue has been around since 4 first shipped. They ignored us all during that time and it looks like they are ignoring the issue with 5. If they intended to fix this problem, then we'd see a fix in 5.

BTW, for the geeks out there.. there is NO way that my company would EVER open up the UDP ports.. those that understand the issues will know why. And even though there's an easy passthrough function in the Checkpoint software specifically for Real content, we will NOT open that one up. Because, it just automates the opening of the UDP ports. Real works here because Real understood the issue years back.. it works here ONLY by virtue of using the http connection INSIDE the browser! i.e. if I try and use the player to connect, blocked. If I click on a link on a web page and due to how they engineered it, it goes through the same "session" that the browser uses which has already been authorized.

I've been working with dozens of companies on DRM issues (Digital Rights Management). EVERY single one of them has re-engineered their products at my direction to deal with this issue. Only Cupertino has the arrogance to refuse to deal with it.

The WHOLE point here is that if EVERYONE would rag on them about this issue, MAYBE they'd deal with it. Lacking that, Real (and the microslime stuff) will rule the market. And the company's like mine will continue NOT to use QUICKTIME for steaming content. I didn't make this bed, Cupertino did. Trust me I don't LIKE that I have to essentially outlaw using QUICKTIME for content.. but just think how long I'd have a job if the CEO and the entire executive management team couldn't view the streaming content I create in QUICKTIME with the companies name on it!

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12/07, 02:06pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
QT Feedback Page

I posted the following to the feedpack page at:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/preview/feedback/qtpreviewform.html

Feel free to use it as a template for your own letter if you have similar concerns.

I highly suggest you all post your concerns there soon and often. We *can* remove the mediocre (Real / WiMP) as the standard, and help QuickTime excel if we all provide diligent feedback. I will also be posting there the link to these MacNN comments.

__________________

Dear QT Team -

I was under the impression that MPEG2 support would be included in QT Preview 2. Anyhow, *please* make sure it is included in the final release!

Also, many people would **really** like to see MPEG4 support, although I don't know how realistic it is. It is just plain awful that in order to view MPEG4 content without having to do a bunch of hacking, we must use the horrid WiMP (Windows Media Player). Isn't MPEG4 based off of QuickTime technology in the first place? I realize that perhaps there are licensing/politics issues with MPEG4, but please, please do whatever possible to support this format -- an obvious big competitor to QT. Please!

Sincerely,

Rafael Archuleta
_________________

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12/07, 03:32pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
eEEsh!!!

Eeesh man!

CALL THEM! That way that CANT ignore you! If you HAVE the answer, then frikken tell them! Call Apple and say you are Ellisson or something, get through to Jobs, or Avie (head of Software, right?)

Dumb dumb apple...

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12/07, 03:44pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Re: Eeesh

A 4 billion dollar content company that can't make QuickTime streaming work, eh? Right. Do you have an IT division? What do they say? Have they ever heard of an RTSP proxy? Perhaps you should ask them.

And just who are you designing this media for? Other 4 billion dollar companies who can't make their client software work through their firewalls?

How do your web browsers make their way through your firewall? By way of proxy? Apple has a product like that for QT5 (remeber that RTSP proxy I was asking you about...), and it's free.

Now, seeing as how you _sound_ like you think you know what you're doing, can you explain to me the terrible security risk involved in installing an RTSP proxy on your firewall? It's about the same terribly security risk as installing an HTTP proxy on your firewall, but obviously you've done that.

People like you are why I've become so moody and unaproachable. Sure, Apple _could_ add FireWall/Auth support into QT5/4, but they've got a few fish to fry these days, and most of us have managed to solve that problem in a completely acceptable and secure fashion already. If Apple adds that support, great, but until then, there are other methods.

There would be no need to abandon ship to the RealNetworks lifeboat if you actually tried to solve the problem (or called someone who could) instead of just writing Apple to complain about it.

Statement's like your's are why I don't talk to customers.

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12/07, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
4 billion dollar co.

Well, I know that the market has come down a bit. So two guys with a computer and a web domain can no longer capitalize to the tune of four billion. Do you, like, also have a receptionist or something? That oughta be worth at least a coupla bill even in today's charred NASDAQ.

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12/07, 04:55pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Firewall coming?

There seem to be some bugs and lack of come features in these Public Previews. Could this Firewall issue still be forthcoming? Have you expressed this to Apple, even as feedback to this preview?

TechTV for whatever reason had problems with Preview 1 too. Only that QTV site though (I think).

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12/07, 05:30pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Streaming thru firewall:

You just need to configure your firewall to accept the RTSP protocol.

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12/07, 05:39pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Firewall

There is some good documentation in the Apple.com support area on opening up your firewall to quicktime RTSP streaming. It's a fairly simple operation, if you can get your IT guys to do it. We could not get QT streams for quite a while, and I finally printed out the instructions from the Apple site, gave them to a guy in IT, begged for a while, and the next day it was done. No big deal.

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12/07, 05:45pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Odd...

I'm sitting here with Quicktime 5 at work (behind loads of Cisco hardware, checkpoint firewall and lord knows what else) and Quicktime 5 is playing everything just fine.

/me thinks some people at their "multi billion media house" really need to check with their IS dept. You're obviously the exception and not the rule..

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12/07, 05:50pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
MIDI Playback

MIDI Playback - that I use for playback with Finale and Sibelius is now gone completely - even old MIDI-Files have instruments that dont fit the new version

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12/07, 05:51pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Bug Reporting Page

If you want firewall authentication support, don't b**** about it here. Don't talk about it in some random forum. Go to bugreport.apple.com and *submit a bug report*. Apple has said repeatedly that they will not fix bugs that are not reported using the bug reporter.

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12/07, 06:01pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
WiMP?

What's this? I thought wimp was the standard GUI setup (windows, icons, menus, pointer). I guess this must be Windoze Media Player? If capitalization and homonyms have become important in acronyms, the world really must be going to UNIX (or is that Unix?).

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12/07, 06:14pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Eeesh Redux!

Well, now I'm starting to see the essential issue.. y'all are ragging on me. I SHOULD sit on the phone for an entire day to "speak" to them.. I SHOULD use the bug reporting form.. I SHOULD go to my IS guys and have them run some free Apple software so QT can stream.. I should do this, I should do that. What's wrong with this picture?!

I HAVE reported this issue many times. Others have reported it many times. For at least the past 18 months. The ball is in their court. This is THEIR problem, not mine. I was TRYING (obviously unsuccessfully) to get you all to hound them with "feedback" telling them that they HAVE to acknowledge that large companies (we're talking 16,000 employees here) use authenticating proxy servers and they HAVE to allow for this. Or that these companies are going to be creating their content without using any Apple software.

So the mac community steps up to kill the messenger, eh?

So as a parting shot, lemme lay this one on ya. Y'all, know that Intuit's chairman sits on the board. And y'all know that they killed QuickBooks for the Mac. BIG TIME problem. Maybe you'll remember that their "excuse" was that they were going to transition the product to being web based (and trust me, there are a TON of reasons why that's a very BAD idea). So it looks like they are announcing their web based QuickBooks.. and GUESS WHAT. Not for the Mac! Oh they have a TON of excuses as to why they can't do it.. and it's all BS. I've created a number of web applications and while making sure they work on Macs can be tricky at times, it's ALWAYS possible. So are y'all gonna rag on me about this?

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12/07, 08:39pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
Eh?

What? What's the point?

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12/07, 08:51pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
just no need to...

Please be civil.

Quicktime streaming through RTSP behind firewall did have problem, but also have work around.

I can understand a big company's beaurucrats may never want to change anything. And that's why problems ocurred.

Apple should make it work with RTSP with authentication. Yet it's quite bad that if a company making streaming contents and because they do not want to configure the system for that, that doesn't sound like a good reason.

Just like why the company willing to put up the huge sizes of Windows Media player format? That's a bad thing for streaming because it jack up the stream time and create bad traffic, so you might need even more expensive remedies.

I think Apple should make their software as compatible as possible, it's their fault not to do that. But this still not an excuse for a company to strip QT for that when there's a way to change it in the mean time when Quicktime offer a lot of advantages over other format.

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12/08, 02:06am | report spam | close Reply | delete
Good point..

re: just no need to...

It _looks_ like (correct me if I'm wrong) that you are suggesting the WMP dominates the streaming market because of the fact that it's client supports firewall authentication?

Think about that for second. Where do Firewall's exist? All of the college networks I've seen don't have them in the dorms, which is where the students are. It would be a support nightmare explaining to every student who calls tech support how to configure every network related control panel.

You _do_ see firewalls at large corporate networks though. This is the most common place form them, and with the exception of a 4 billion dollar company that works with Intuit in some top secret anti-mac conspiracy and other content companies, most of those people wouldn't likely be doing much work if they were watching Quicktiime casts.

My point is, let's keep some scope on this problem. Quicktime largely appears to be a content creator (4 billion dollar intuit conspiracy company) to consumer (you, me, and grandma) market product, which I would further suggest is a market that both WMP and Real sit in as well.

You, me and grandma aren't worried about RTSP authentication support when we're sitting at home, trying to find some video on CNN that show's the latest NASA footage from the space station.

I'll agree that Apple should include it to, even to ease the burden of a busy SysAdmin's life, but their market share doesn't depend on that.

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12/08, 07:37am | report spam | close Reply | delete
FireWall

Proxy FireWall issues are real - those not experiencing it is not behind an authenticating Proxy / Socks server.

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12/08, 08:42am | report spam | close Reply | delete
We are reporting

I would imagine that, having asked us to report this issue of firewalls, many will happily help out. It sounded like you had not given feedback to them.

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the Plugin

I cannot get any qt files on the web : The plugin needs QT5 it says !!! that's the kind of error you often get on windows isn't it ??? i've installed 5 times the stupid software, i get many many VSE data errors and i cannot get any .mov on the web !!! thx !! the PP1 worked fine ... so what's all this ????

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Apple posts QT 5.0 Preview 2

updated 08:00 am EST, Thu December 7, 2000

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