D8 Conference 2010 : June 01, 2010Jobs is on stage at the D8 conference in LA at 9PM Eastern
8:53 - We're waiting for the session to start.
9:00 - The Q&A is potentially significant for Jobs. It's his first in three years and comes just before the next iPhone and after the new iPad. Controversies also exist over App Store policies, Flash and Apple's influence over music and video.
9:02 - As is often the case, the Q&A is getting off to a late start.
9:04 - News Corp. chief Rupert Murdoch is opening proceedings; Jobs will be on in a few minutes.
9:10 - Murdoch on stage; Jobs coming up soon after.
9:12 - Murdoch claims that, during the first D conf, tech and media didn't get each other, but that times have changed.
9:14 - Jobs said that eight years ago; don't think he'll say that tonight.
9:17 - Murdoch argues that even the furthest reaches of the world have access to innovations due to the Internet. Talking about the iPad and how content had to change, and has changed. [Murdoch is a big proponent of the iPad and the WSJ app]
9:18 - News Corp has started charging for a lot of its online content; there's a golden age for companies willing to embrace it.
9:19 - Handing over to Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg, D columnists ans the Q&A for all the D8 sessions.
9:21 - Kara & Walt talk about the new venue in Rancho Palos Verdes; used to be near San Diego.
9:22 - (note: UK Times has sold over 5,000 iPad downloads in 3 days, Murdoch said earlier)
9:22 - Steve Jobs finally takes the stage.
9:24 - Jobs on Apple passing MS in market cap: "It doesn't matter very much. it's not what's important. it's not what makes you come to work in the morning. It's a little surreal."
9:25 - Jobs notes Apple was about "90 days" from going bankrupt before he came back. "Much worse than I thought." He expected the good people to have already left, but many were still there.
9:26 - Asked about Flash: is it fair or the best thing for consumers to be abrupt about rejecting it?
9:27 - "Apple is a company that doesn't have the most resources of everybody in the world," Jobs says. "The way we have succeeded is by choosing which horses to ride very carefully."
9:27 - "Different pieces of tech go in cycles, they have summer and then they go to the grave."
9:28 - "We try to pick things in their springs. If you choose wisely you can save yourself an enormous amount of work."
9:29 - Examples: moving to 3.5-inch floppies, getting rid of the optical drive in the MacBook Air. "They call us crazy."
9:29 - "Flash looks like it had its day but it's waning, and HTML5 looks like it's coming up."
9:30 - Jobs says no phones ship with Flash; Walt points out that "there will be," but Jobs retorts that Flash was "going to be" on phones for a long time.
9:31 - 75 percent of web video may be in Flash now, but 25 to 50 percent will be HTML5 soon.
9:31 - There are holes, Walt says, but Jobs says those are being plugged. Most of the time those holes are ads.
9:32 - HyperCard was more popular at its peak than Flash is today.
9:34 - "We didn't start off to have a war with Flash," Jobs says. "We just made a technical decision. [We] told Adobe [that] if you ever have this thing running fast, come back and tell us. We shipped iPhone without Flash, too. [It] wasn't until iPad that Adobe raised a stink."
9:34 - Walt: but what if the market says it was Flash? If they say the iPad is crippled?
9:35 - (note: Jobs also said that Adobe didn't raise things in public until the iPad; Apple didn't think it was a matter for the press, but Jobs had to respond when Adobe made it a public issue)
9:36 - "Well, things are packages. Some things are good in a product, some things are bad. If the market tells us we're making bad choices, we'll make changes. We're just trying to make great products. We don't think this is great, and we're going to leave it out. We're going to take the heat because we want to make the best product in the world for customers."
9:37 - [note: something of a surprise for Jobs to say Apple might change its stance if it's clear the iPad doesn't fly, though that's not likely to happen]
9:37 - Kara: "You've been emailing a lot lately." Makes a reference to the Valleywag debate over "freedom from porn."
9:38 - Jobs: "I was up late and working, and this guy starts sending me obnoxious emails, and I wanted to straighten this guy out. I'm just enough of a sucker, and he publishes it!"
9:38 - Walt: so one of your prototype products wound up at a bar...
9:41 - "Well a guy... who can say if he's a journalist." [Jobs referencing Jason Chen] "There's an ongoing investigation. I can tell you what I do know, though. To make a product you need to test it. You have to carry them outside. One of our employees was carrying one. There's a debate about whether he left it in a bar, or it was stolen out of his bag. The person who found it tried to sell it; they called Engadget, they called Gizmodo."
9:42 - "The person who took the phone plugged it into his roommate's computer," Jobs continues. "And this guy was trying to destroy evidence, and his roommate called the police. So this is a story that's amazing: it's got theft, it's got buying stolen property, it's got extortion, I'm sure there's some sex in there... the whole thing is very colorful. The DA is looking into it, and to my knowledge they have someone making sure they only see stuff that relates to this case. I don't know how it will end up."
9:43 - What about the Foxconn factory suicides? "We are on top of this," Jobs says. "We look at everything at these companies. I can tell you a few things that we know. And we are all over this. Foxconn is not a sweatshop. It's a factory, but they've got restaurants and movie theaters."
9:43 - "They've had some suicides and attempted suicides, and they have 400,000 people there. The rate is under what the US rate is, but it's still troubling."
9:44 - "We had this in my hometown of Palo Alto: copy cat suicides. We're over there trying to understand this. It's a difficult situation."
9:45 - Walt shifts the topic to the future and where things are headed. Microsoft is still dominant, but there's smartphones and now tablets.
9:47 - Have you seen it as a platform war? "No, and I never have," Jobs answers. "We never saw ourselves in a platform war with Microsoft. Maybe that's why we lost!"
9:47 - Thought about Microsoft, but we just wanted to build the best product.
9:48 - How about Google? "They decided to compete with us and they are," Jobs answers. On Chrome OS, he says it's "not really baked yet."
9:49 - Notes that Chrome is based on WebKit, which was done at Apple [not entirely true: K-Meleon became WebKit]
9:49 - "We've created a real competitor to IE. In the mobile space it's number 1."
9:50 - What happened with Eric Schmidt? "They decided to compete with us," Jobs says. "We didn't go into the search business." [reminiscent of the town hall speech Jobs gave]
9:51 - Did Schmidt call you? "No, they started competing with us and it got more and more serious."
9:51 - Do you feel betrayed? "My sex life is pretty good," Jobs says to laughs.
9:52 - [Obviously a jab at being asked a relatively personal question]
9:52 - Kara: Are you going to remove Google from the iPhone? "No," Jobs says.
9:53 - "We want to make a better product than they do, and we do," he adds/ "What I Iove about the consumer market that I always hated about the enterprise market: [with consumers] every person votes for themselves. If enough of them say yes, we get to come to work in the morning. in enterprise, not so much; people that use them don't get to decide, and the people that make those decisions are sometimes confused."
9:54 - "Just because we're competing with someone doesn't mean we have to be rude."
9:55 - Asked about Siri and how that plays into search. "They're not a search company. They're an AI company. We have no plans to go into the search business. We don't care about it; other people do it well."
9:56 - "See, what's so great: go back a few years ago. There was no app market for smartphones." Walt adds that Palm had apps, but no store at the time.
9:58 - On the change in how apps used to be controlled on the network: "Well it wasn't like this. Now it's huge. And also, when you bought a phone the carrier dictated what you had on the phone. iPhone was the first phone where we said you worry about the network, we'll worry about the phone."
9:59 - Switching to status with AT&T: "Pretty good, actually," he claims. "They have the fastest network. I think it's improving, but I only wish I could say it was rapidly improving. I do think they have some issues..." "Remember, they're handling way more data traffic than all of their other competitors combined."
10:01 - Walt calls out Jobs over remarks that Apple didn't want to get into phones and then did. "We found a way to change that," he says. "We found a way to sell the phone we want to sell and define it the way we want to. We were able to change the rules of the game and that's what got us [to change]."
10:02 - "And same thing on the tablet. I remember telling you I thought handwriting was the slowest input method ever," he explains. "We reimagined the tablet, we didn't do what Microsoft did. They had a totally different idea than us. And that drove everything. Their tablet was based on a PC. It had the battery life, the weight; it needed a cursor like a PC. But the minute you throw a stylus out, you have the precision of a finger, you can't use a PC OS. You have to create it from scratch."
10:03 - "I'll tell you a secret," he says. "I actually started on a tablet first. I had this idea about having a glass display, a multi-touch display you could type on. I asked our people about it. And six months later they came back with this amazing display. And I gave it to one of our really brilliant UI guys. He then got inertial scrolling working and some other things, and I thought, 'my God, we can build a phone with this,' and we put the tablet aside, and we went to work on the phone."
10:04 - [this was in the early 2000s, well before either]
10:04 - Kara: Where does the tablet go from here? How about magazines and papers?
10:05 - "We have a lot of goals for it, but one of my beliefs very strongly is that any democracy depends on a free, healthy press. And we've seen what's happening to papers in the US right now. I think they're really important. I don't want to see us descend into a nation of bloggers."
10:06 - He thinks of the New York Times, Washington Post, WSJ and others. "Some of them are in real trouble," he says. "I don't want to see us descend into a nation of bloggers. I think we need editorial now more than ever."
10:07 - "I can tell you as one of the largest sellers of content on the Internet to date: price it aggressively and go for volume. That has worked for us. I'm trying to get the press to do the same thing. They need to do it differently than they do it for print."
10:07 - Walt: didn't your system drive prices of books upward?
10:08 - Jobs: "Well, it's complicated," he notes. "The market right now is way more responsive to consumer demand than it was six months ago. If consumers want it to be less, they'll [publishers] be more responsive to those signals."
10:09 - Walt: Is the tablet going to replace the laptop? "When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks because that's what you needed on the farms," he explains through metaphors. "But as people moved more towards urban centers, people started to get into cars. I think PCs are going to be like trucks. Less people will need them. And this is going to make some people uneasy."
10:10 - "The PC has taken us a long way. They were amazing. But it's changes, vested interests are going to change. And I think we've embarked on that change. Is it the iPad? Who knows? Will it be next year or five years?" Walt asks if he doesn't think it'll be next year. "Well, who knows," he said.
10:11 - Kara: "So you mentioned power windows and AC [in the car analogy]. What do you think will be the additions to the iPad that are like the ones we've seen for cars?"
10:12 - "People laugh at me when I say it's magical, you have a much more direct and intimate relationship with the Internet, and media, and apps, and your content. It's like some intermediate thing has been removed and stripped away. Like that Claritin commercial where they strip away the film, it's like that."
10:12 - Kara says yes, the keyboard!
10:12 - Jobs: "I think we're just scratching the surface about the kind of apps you can build for it."
10:13 - Walt: a lot of people think that the lack of a keyboard means the iPad isn't suited to content creation.
10:15 - "Why wouldn't they be?" Jobs asks. "When I am going to write that 35-page analyst report I am going to want my Bluetooth keyboard. That's one percent of the time." The software will get more powerful, he says. "I think your vision would have to be pretty short" not to see it growing into things for editing video, graphic arts, and productivity. "You can imagine all of this content creation" on a tablet. "Time takes care of lots of these things."
10:17 - How about flexible displays. "We don't have the technology to do that and it's not on the horizon," he says. "A lot of people have tried and are trying. Maybe someone will have a breakthrough," he adds, saying it's several years away.
10:18 - How about curation? There's a lot of controversy about your App Store rejecting apps, sometimes you backtrack. I don't know of any law that says you have to carry something you don't want to carry. But isn't there responsibility with that? You become big, you have the most apps. You've talked in some things you've written about protecting the consumer. But isn't there a downside of you guys acquiring all this power and you saying no to some cartoonist or some political candidate? Don't you have a problem there?
10:19 - Jobs: "Well let first say we have two platforms we support. One is open and uncontrolled; that's HTML5. We support HTML5," he says. "We have the best support for it of anyone in the world. We then support a curated platform, which is the App Store. It is the most vital app community on any platform. How do we curate this? It's a bunch of people, and they come into work every day. We have a few rules: has to do what it's advertised to do, it has to not crash, it can't use private APIs. And those are the three biggest reasons we reject apps. But we approve 95 percent of all the apps that are submitted every week."
10:21 - So why was that political candidate's app rejected? Apple had a rule that you couldn't defame people, but "we didn't think of that [political ad function]. That was an unintended consequence."
10:22 - Apple had actually changed the rule several months earlier to allow it through. "We are guilty as charged of making mistakes. Nobody has ever done this before."
10:22 - "But what happens is, people lie," he goes on. "And then they run to the press and tell people about this oppression, and they get their 15 minutes of fame. We don't run to the press and say
'this guy is a son of a bitch liar!' We don't do that."
10:24 - Kara: What is your day like? Jobs: "I have one of the best jobs in the world, I get to hang around some of the most wonderful, brightest people I've ever met. Together we get to play in the best sandbox I've ever seen."
10:25 - Walt declines to ask about the new iPhone; Jobs returns briefly to the story of the old Apple being a ship that leaked from the top. [i.e. executives broadcast plans well in advance and had them stolen by rivals]
10:26 - "One of the keys to Apple is that Apple is an incredibly collaborative company," Jobs says. "You know how many committees we have at Apple? Zero. We're organized like a startup. We're the biggest start up on the planet. We meet for three hours every morning and talk about all the business, about what's going on everywhere. We're great at figuring out how to divide things up into great teams, and we talk to each other. So what I do all day is meet with teams of people."
10:27 - How about the next 10 years of your life? "You know, when this whole thing with Gizmodo happened, I got advice from people who said 'you gotta just let it slide, you shouldn't go after a journalist just because they bought stolen property and tried to extort you.' And I thought deeply about this, and I concluded the worst thing that could happen is if we change our core values and let it slide. I can't do that. I'd rather quit.
10:29 - "You go back 5 or 10 years, what would you do," he asks rhetorically. "We're not going into that We have the same values that we had back then. The core values are the same. We come into work wanting to do the same thing that we did back then: build the best products. Nothing makes my day more than getting a random e-mail from someone talking about how cool the iPad is. That's what keeps me going. That's what kept me going back then, and now, and will keep me going in the future."
10:29 - "I don't see why you have to change as you get big," he says.
10:30 - Walt: What are you doing next? You're going into the ad business.
10:31 - "We're going into the ad business because we want to help our developers make some money," Jobs claims. "We're not going to make much money in the ad business. We are doing it for our developers. People are using apps way more than they are using search. If you want to make developers money, you put ads in the apps."
10:31 - "We discovered something: people are going into apps. They're not just going onto to websites. And people love apps. This is an entirely new thing: they aren't using search, they're using apps like Yelp."
10:32 - Reiterating how most mobile ads kick you out of the app. "If you are playing a game you are probably not going to make it back to the same place," Jobs goes on.
10:32 - Walt: Could someone else do that? Jobs: "Sure, but nobody else is doing it. We can build it into the OS."
10:34 - Walt says a theme of D8 is privacy. "There seems to have been a spate of mistakes, or false starts," Walt says, referencing Facebook's recent aggressive public-by-default choice.
10:34 - Jobs adds: "Or Google's Wi-Fi collection."
10:36 - Is Silicon Valley different when it comes to piracy? "No, we take privacy really seriously. Take location on phones: we take this really seriously. Before any app can get location data, they can't just put up a panel asking if it can use location; they call our panel and it asks you if it's okay. That's one of the reasons we have the curated App Store. A lot of the people in the Valley think we're old fashioned about this, but we take it seriously."
10:36 - "Privacy means people know what they are signing up for in plain English. Some people want to share more data. Ask them. Ask them every time. Let them know precisely what you are going to do with their data."
10:37 - Q&A: What would Jobs add to his Stanford commencement speech from 2005? "I have no idea. Probably I would just turn up the volume on it. The last few years have reminded me that life is fragile."
10:38 - You changed your terms of service on privacy. Why?
10:39 - "Well we learned this really interesting thing," Jobs says. "Some company called Flurry had data on devices that we were using on our campus; new devices. They were getting this info by getting developers to put software in their apps that sent info back to this company! So we went through the roof. It's violating our privacy policies, and it's pissing us off! So we said we're only going to allow analytics that don't give our device info; only for the purpose of advertising."
10:40 - "But you can't get info off of our devices and turn around and sell it. That you can't do. Is that clear?" It is, but there's info that could help make apps better, the answer comes. "That's true, but there's no excuse for them not asking customers if it's okay to send that data. We're willing to talk to some of these people when we calm down, but it's not today."
10:41 - How is the balance shifting in media content? "The way we market movies is changing," Jobs says. "[It] used to be TV advertising with trailers. Now we can reach that audience much more effectively on the web."
10:43 - "When we went to music companies, we said 'who is your customer?' They said Target, and Best Buy; they thought the retailer was the customer. What changed in that industry was the front end, the distribution and marketing was able to be done in a much more effective way, going right to the end user."
10:46 - "That's what's going to happen in visual media as well," Jobs says. "We want to let people watch whatever they want, when they want. That's what needs to change. The content is going to be just as valuable, if not more valuable in the future. It's starting to happen now in television. They are more willing to experiment with their television properties. You are starting to see it more and more in film. i even think there is going to be a way to watch a first-run film at home before it comes out on DVD if you are willing to spend a bunch of money." [may refer to studios' proposed $25-30 early viewing]
10:47 - Man asks about tethering through a cable versus wireless sync. "You want to share your content that you bought amongst your various devices," Jobs says. "You can't do that without a wire. We need to work harder on that. We need to do better." Walt: Anytime soon? Jobs: "We're working on it."
10:49 - Someone asks a big question: we love our iPhones, but we can't make a phone call on them. Is someone working on that? "I'll tell you what I am told and I am told this by credible people. To make things better, people reallocate spectrum, and they do things like increase the backhaul. And they put in more robust switches."
10:50 - "Things in general when they start to fix them get worse before they get better. If you believe that, things should get a lot better soon." There's reason to believe things should get better by the end of the summer.
10:50 - Kara: But if they don't? Jobs: "Then they won't. We'll see."
10:52 - Next question. We're excited about interacting with content, but you won't give access to the file system. "There's a lot of things we're working on. We should chat," Jobs teases.
10:53 - Asked about being unable to play a digital copy of Up from an iPad through VGA, but not being able to because of HDCP and copy protection. "We didn't invent the stuff," Jobs defends. "The content creators are trying to protect this stuff, and they're grabbing at straws. Sometimes they grab the right ones, and sometimes they don't. If we want access to this stuff, we have to play by some of their rules. I feel your pain."
10:55 - What's your vision for gaming on all the devices? "Clearly iPhone plus iPod touch have created a new class of gaming," the CEO says. "It's a subset of casual gaming. But it's surprising how good some of them are. They're almost as good as console gaming in terms of graphics. [With] console games the software is $30 or $40 a game. It's cheaper on iPhone, so the market has exploded... we didn't set out to compete with Nintendo, or Sony with their PSP." But it is, and "now we have the iPad, a third product on that same platform."
10:57 - Hillcrest Labs (the pointer and TV web browser company) asks if it's time to throw out the up-down, left-right interface of TV. [allusion to Apple TV rumors] "The problem with innovation in the television industry is the go to market solution," Jobs answers. "The TV industry has a subsidized model that gives everyone a set-top box for free. So no one wants to buy a box. Ask TiVo, ask Roku, ask us, ask Google in a few months."
10:58 - Jobs continues. "So all you can do is add a box to the TV. You just end up with a table full of remotes, a cluster of boxes, and that's what we have today. The only way that's going to change is if you tear up the set top box, give it a new UI, and get it in front of consumers in a way they're going to want it. The TV is going to lose in our eyes until there is a better go to market strategy; otherwise, you're just making another TiVo."
11:00 - Getting customers to pay is the problem. "Right now there is no way to do that. That's the problem with the TV market," "We decided: what product did we want the most? A better TV or a better phone?" Same issue with tablets.
11:01 - Questioner says Apple got around it with carriers on the iPhone. Why not with TV? "It's very Tower of Babel-ish. It's very Balkanized," Jobs says, referring to how providers are much more regionalized.
11:01 - Session is ended.
9:26 - Cookies can be deleted either by the client or by the server. Clients can easily delete the cookies by locating the Cookies folder on their system and deleting them.
9:41 - test this out here
12:23 - test this out here