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Developer accuses Apple of stealing UI design for iBooks

updated 10:20 pm EST, Wed January 27, 2010

App features the same bookshelf appearance

Following the iPad announcement and Apple's preview of several new apps for the tablet device, Delicious Monster developer Wil Shipley noticed an uncanny resemblance between the iBooks app and his Mac software, Delicious Library. During the iPad unveiling, Shipley published several tweets claiming that Apple had not obtained permission to use the interface, which places book covers on virtual shelves that appear to be made of wood.

"No, Apple didn't license iBooks from me," Shipley said. "They just copied me. Ah well."

Although the design similarities could be considered a coincidence, several developers from Delicious Monster have been hired by Apple to work on various projects.

"But the thing about iBooks is, it's a book-reader. So, of course they looked around, found the best interface for displaying books (Delicious Library's shelves), and said: yup, this is what we're doing," Shipley told The Washington Post

Shipley is not completely opposed to allowing other companies to use the interface design. The iPhone app Classics also utilizes a similar wooden-bookshelf appearance, however the developers first obtained permission from Delicious Monster before using the design.

"My designs are my children," Shipley said. "So it stinks when I feel like Steve might get the fame for my innovation. I lose my children, as it were."

by MacNN Staff

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ctt1wbw
Mac Elite

Joined: Jan 2001

-11

01/27, 10:32pm | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Give me a BREAK!

This dude may as well sue every book store in the world. They all display books on shelves like that.

Constable Odo
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+13

01/27, 10:41pm | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Can one really own a patent on a bookshelf?

There must have been wooden bookshelves further back than when this developer was born. Hard to believe he could gripe about theft of design. If you go to any library or book store, you'll see wooden bookshelves. Apple uses a different color wood and gives depth to the shelves so it's not a dead ringer. Personally Apple's wood looks better and the developer's wood looks more like contact paper. I'm only saying that due to the fact that I don't know much about different types of wood.

mjtomlin
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Joined: Oct 1999

+12

01/27, 10:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Classics

Can't imagine displaying books on a bookshelf wouldn't be an obvious interface?

I think the developers of "Classics" have a bit more to be disgruntled about. Not only do they have books on a bookshelf, they also have realistic page flips.

http://www.classicsapp.com/

darkelf
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Joined: Nov 2003

+18

01/27, 11:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
live by...

live by the completely obvious real-world analog user interface,
die by the completely obvious real-world analog user interface.

erikschmidt
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Joined: Aug 2009

+7

01/27, 11:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Shelfari

http://www.shelfari.com

Some user interface metaphors are just pretty obvious. Shipley may have reacted the way he did specifically because former Delicious Library developers are now at Apple.

This is an interesting line: "Shipley is not completely opposed to allowing other companies to use the interface design." The assumption here is that Shipley has either copyright or patent protection on the design of his virtual bookshelf, both of which seem unlikely.

Shipley is a big name in the Mac developer community, and the accolades he's garnered over the years are well-earned. But I think he overreacted here.

Raman
Mac Elite

Joined: Mar 2001

-7

01/27, 11:41pm | report spam | (3 replies) close Reply |
Rip-Off

People think it's o.k. that Apple sends its lawyers when someone has a contest to find out information about a product that may or may not exist.

I love Apple as much as the next guy but a blatant rip-off is a blatant-rip off. It's not like they could't have offered him a small amount of $ for the idea. It's even worse that his product is for OS X. Basically Apple is saying "Thanks for the idea, now we're going to make millions off it." The idea was significant enough for them to demo it at the special event today. Throw the guy a bone. If they did that to me, I don't think I'd be developing for AAPL anymore.

chas_m
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Joined: Aug 2001

+4

01/27, 11:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Yes ...

... because Will Shipley invented the idea of books on a wooden bookshelf.

Now, I have corresponded with Wil, think he's a great guy and I **love** his product Delicious Library, but I personally think any lawsuit would get laughed out of court. He no more invented that interface -- even on a computer -- than Griffin invented the idea of a k*** onscreen to control volume.

I suggest Wil contact Dan Wood of Karelia to find out how much leeway Apple has on similar interface design.

jpellino
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Joined: Oct 1999

+5

01/28, 12:09am | report spam | close Reply |
Rethink the metaphor, please.

And I don't mean the bookshelf one. I mean the one about losing your children. A bit much. Ask anyone who has lost an actual child. Yes, you are overreacting. Imagine the originator of the manila folder metaphor/ UI acting like this the second / third / fourth time a folder concept was appropriated for a storage metaphor.

Be happy with your role as innovator. You are better than this. You will not lose one dime of business for your library program that has no competitive position with a book reading app. If you had protected your IP then you might have reason to make some noise, but if this was protected, then you would not be tweeting - you would be ringing your lawyer.

testudo
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-8

01/28, 12:18am | report spam | (2 replies) close Reply |
Yep

Same tired arguments used when Apple blatantly ripped off Konfabulator for Dashboard. "Oh, it really is Desk Accessories!" "Oh, it isn't the same, these use javascripts!".

Face it. Apple occassionally checks out other products and steals their look. Apparently this is OK.

And if MS comes out next month with a book app for Windows Mobile with the same look, it'll be "There's MS copying apple again!"

testudo
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-9

01/28, 12:19am | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Re: Classics

Can't imagine displaying books on a bookshelf wouldn't be an obvious interface?

And yet after all those years, Delicious Library was basically the only one doing it in such a literal fashion. You'd think if it were so obvious, everyone would be using that interface.

pt123
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-9

01/28, 12:36am | report spam | close Reply |
huh

That's kinda like accusing Microsoft of stealing Apple's look isn't it?

sribe
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+4

01/28, 12:36am | report spam | close Reply |
Yes, it was obvious

And yet after all those years, Delicious Library was basically the only one doing it in such a literal fashion. You'd think if it were so obvious, everyone would be using that interface.

Well, actually, it was done as far back as the 1980s, though I can't remember the product name. What Shipley & co have going for their product was a really nice implementation, well thought-out & gorgeous.

testudo
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-10

01/28, 12:37am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Give me a break

This dude may as well sue every book store in the world. They all display books on shelves like that.

No they don't. First, those are 'real' shelves, not virtual shelves. Second, book stores tend not to waste their shelf space by placing all books face out, with space in between.

JeffHarris
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Joined: Oct 1999

+5

01/28, 12:37am | report spam | close Reply |
It was my first thought...

When I saw the iBooks Store shelf, I immediately thought... Delicious Library.

Apple did the same thing with Sherlock... I forget the name of the original software, but Apple seemed to have lifted it completely.

Call out the lawyers.

elroth
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+10

01/28, 12:37am | report spam | close Reply |
think about it

Give Shipley his due - Delicious Library was way ahead of its time, and way ahead of the competition. If Apple copied the functionality of the app, then there's a problem.

I'm not sure if all Apple copied was the look of the books on wooden bookshelves. If so, it's not as big of a deal. But Jobs did hire away senior developers of Delicious Library - I hope they didn't overstep and copy too much without permission.

Shipley's not a competitor like Microsoft or Google. He's more of a partner, making good, functional apps for OS X. It would show class to treat him with respect.

testudo
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-2

01/28, 12:38am | report spam | (2 replies) close Reply |
Stealing designs

You know who should be really pissed. The designers over at Star Trek: TNG. They're the ones who came up with the idea of the pad computer. Far ahead of it's time.

kgav
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01/28, 12:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Sorry People but this is BS

I bought my mother Cooking Recipe software for the PowerMac G3 I got her way back when. It was running OS 9 and the Main User Interface was a bookshelf with cookbooks of different styles of cooking on shelfs. You choose the book you want and it would come off the shelf open up and it was like a standard recipe book.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

+1

01/28, 01:53am | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
It looks more like Classics

Shipley has nothing to whine about. He stole ideas for Delicious library from iTunes.

I suspect that Apple may have given some sort of "consideration" to the authors of Classics.

JEB
Junior Member

Joined: May 2001

+2

01/28, 03:19am | report spam | close Reply |
Yep ...

... I actually never used DL, but watching the Keynote -- my Spider Sense tingled. "Hmm, doesn't another developer have that book organizing interface like that?"

facebook_Chris
Via Facebook

Joined: Jan 2010

+1

01/28, 03:57am | report spam | close Reply |
Didn't he go work for Apple?

I remember once reading a blog associated with the Delicious LIbrary application. If I remember correctly, there were at least two developers, one UI guy and the developer. One of them, MIke Matas went to work for Apple in 2005 and according to wikipedia, he left just last year. I am almost certain that Matas was the UI designer for the Delicious LIbrary. See the connection here?

Foe Hammer
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01/28, 04:04am | report spam | close Reply |
Shelve It, Tuddy ...

"No they don't. First, those are 'real' shelves, not virtual shelves. Second, book stores tend not to waste their shelf space by placing all books face out, with space in between."

I got a virtual splinter here. Can I sue Borders?

And who should Borders sue?

http://www.borders.com

Feynman
Forum Regular

Joined: Aug 2006

-2

01/28, 04:06am | report spam | close Reply |
Only Apple's interface

looks more polished and three-dimentional where as DL looks flat and dated, and rather dull.

TiberiusMonkey
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+1

01/28, 05:20am | report spam | close Reply |
We get it testudo.

You don't like Apple and anyone that decides Apple are in the right must be blind.
Do you have anything to add to all the posts you make that doesn't fit into that above bracket?

It's a bookcase, I've seen software bookcases before now and before Delicious Library thanks, if I was going to write eReader sofware I'd make selection a bookcase, the same way just about anyone with half a brain probably would.

Appleman
Mac Elite

Joined: Feb 2001

+2

01/28, 05:44am | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Thought about Delicious Library

Thought about Delicious Library immediately, even quickly showed my wife the ressemblance with the program.
I think it is a bad sign that Apple is using its power by not asking/licensing the look/feel of this interface, even though it might be such an obvious one: in the end it simply is stealing.
The apple icon of Apple Inc. nowadays is such an obvious icon, but better don't start a company with an apple logo looking a little bit like an it, even though Apple Inc. did not invent "a bite out of an Apple"!
Wiley is right, even though he might overreact, he is right.

nowayoutofmymind
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Joined: Jun 2007

+2

01/28, 06:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Use the fame...

I'd be a bit ennerved at first too, but I'd rather go ahead and use the "copy act" from Apple to make a big advertising campaign.

"Even the design gurus at Apple haven't found a better way to present books in a user interface. We from Delicious knew that since years. We're happy Apple has decided to try to come close to the refined interfaces of our own app".

:)

joecab
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-1

01/28, 06:23am | report spam | close Reply |
comment title

As much as I love Delicious, if the Classics iPhone app hadn't already done it as well with nary a peep that we know of from Delicious, I'd be more sympathetic.

And it may be an "obvious" look, but the devil is in the details and Delicious does a great job with their app under and outside the hood.

dronkert
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-5

01/28, 06:25am | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Mac OS

Blatant Xerox rip-off.

TheBum
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2001

+1

01/28, 08:35am | report spam | close Reply |
I had the same thought

As soon as I saw the iBooks interface, the first thing that came to my mind was whether Apple had licensed or bought Delicious Library. It's nearly identical.

gudin
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+6

01/28, 08:38am | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Shipley

Shipley said he has no interest in suing Apple, and that he never said Apple STOLE anything. He simply said they copied that aspect of the UI. This article is making everyone anti-shipley or anti-Apple, when in fact, Shipley said nothing nearly as serious as what the headline suggests.

I have DL, though I don't use it, and literally the first instant I saw the shelves in the new app I thought "Delicious Library?" IMMEDIATELY. The app doesn't do the same thing, it just displays a similar UI. Shipley even said Apple used the best metaphor for displaying books, and that he expects it may actually HELP his sales.

In short: nothing to see here, move along. . .

johnbar
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Joined: Jan 2010

+1

01/28, 08:54am | report spam | close Reply |
Was it ripped off, or not....?

It mentions this obliquely in the article, but didn't the co-founder of Delicious Monster - who designed all the graphics - cleave and join Apple in 2005.... ? Err, yes: http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/07/21/mike.matas.joins.apple/

So Shipley's frustration isn't the whole story then....

tmartin
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+1

01/28, 09:01am | report spam | close Reply |
What about BOB?

Seriously? Even non-innovative Microsoft placed books on a bookshelf in their poorly received BOB interface many years ago.

Don't forget to go after these guys:

http://www.incwell.com/Fensters/Kids/index.html

zooachtiv
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Joined: Nov 2004

0

01/28, 09:01am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple owns him..

Didnt he join apple a while back as a UI guru? I recall Apple buying him out (or at least the person responsible for DL).

So if they did buy him, im sure in the fine print, they said we own your sole and all your children past and present too.. So why wouldnt they own the bookshelf..

BTW - I believe its the way it 'turns into the store' is what he is bitching about..

tmartin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

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+2

01/28, 09:05am | report spam | close Reply |
Shelfari...

Here's another. See? It is an obvious interface.

danviento
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+1

01/28, 09:17am | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
In His Defense:

Delicious Monster was the FIRST thing I thought of when I saw a photo of this via Macworld's live posting. I actually considered purchasing delicious library a while back, but I ended up deciding against the price point vs. my value of the product.

However, eBook library vs. library catalogue isn't what I'd call a competing piece of software, not to mention that people who want to catalogue the physical copy books, DVDs, etc. vs. people who have digital copies of books are vastly different markets.

tonton
Senior User

Joined: Mar 2001

-1

01/28, 10:02am | report spam | close Reply |
Brushed Aluminum

Brushed Aluminum has been a design element of HiFi and computer equipment since the 1960s at least.

So I guess it means that it would be AOK for Microsoft to steal Apple's UI.

I have to say I agree with testudo 100% on this one.

It makes no difference how long physical books have been put on physical wooden shelves. DM was the first to use this particular design element in computer software of this type. So it is their copyright.

MeandmyMac
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01/28, 10:13am | report spam | close Reply |
What happens when...

What happens when you have a library of a couple of dozen books and there is no more room for forward facing books... Do they flip over and all we see are their spines that are magnetized for easy reading when a user's finger brushes over them and then when the user sees a book they like tap on it and it "magically" is pulled out from the book shelf to a forward facing book?

Apple should have gone with a metal carousel magazine like book rack that spins...

I'm running down to my copyright and patent office this minute!

JulesLt
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01/28, 10:21am | report spam | close Reply |
comment title

Blimey, me and Testudo agreeing - good design is often 'obvious'. h***, most scientific laws tend to be obvious - Newton's equations are incredibly elegant and obvious.

A lot of people would have gone with displaying the spines instead (and personally, I think that would have looked quite cool on the iPad - a long line of spines of different sizes, looking like my real booksheves, rather than a library display).

On the other hand, Apple did buy the rights to Coverflow - even though that was an implementation of someone else's mocked up idea, so presumably there was a good case for prior art / no patents. And I do wonder if they DID go to the developer of Classics on this one (under an NDA).

I'd say it is close enough to say it's an uncredited rip-off, but far enough off there's no court case. But I can understand his general point though - a bit of credit and publicity would probably beat cash.

timbck2
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01/28, 10:56am | report spam | close Reply |
I agree

I thought the same thing when I saw the iBooks interface yesterday - what a ripoff!

Flying Meat
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01/28, 12:05pm | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
They tried

displaying the books on doorknobs, didn't work out so well. Toilet seats? no... Fish and chips baskets? still missing something. Puppies! Everyone loves puppies, don't they? well,..

malax
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01/28, 12:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Completely different

The Delicious Library bookshelves have the grain of the wood running horizontally. Apple's iBook has the wood grain vertically. So clearly a different design.

Remember this is only about the interface. The apps themselves are completely different. You can't actually read books in DL, and you can't add physical books to iBooks. It's a ripoff of the interface, but what should Apple have done (beside try to hire the guy)? They couldn't license it since it wasn't patented or copyrighted. I guess they could have thrown him some money for giving them a good idea. Oh well.

robttwo
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01/28, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wil Shipley

Always has been, and continues to be, an attention seeking a******. Just check out his "bio".

occupant
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+2

01/28, 12:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ugh

For what it's worth, as soon as I saw the interface I thought, oh, gee, Microsoft Bob was ahead of its time.

Literal representations of real-world presentation methods kind of reek like 1995. You'd think Apple designers would steal better.

ggirton
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01/28, 01:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bookshelf is a bad interface

It works ok for actual books, but it's the main reason I didn't get Delicious Library. An unnecessarily clunky physical metaphor. Hard to work with. Cute, obvious, should help to sell them. Fortunately there (must be) an alternative view in the app, just like Finder has cover flow and 3 others.

njfuzzy
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01/28, 01:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
This isn't cool

When I saw the presentation, I assumed we would soon hear about Apple licensing some stuff from Delicious Monster, or even buying the company outright finally. It's disappointing to hear that this isn't the case. The iBooks interface clearly copies Delicious Monster, who were the first to use that look and feel.

I hope Apple makes this right.

macprogrammer
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01/28, 02:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Brilliant Design

Gee, what a brilliant design. Books on a bookshelf. How did you ever come with that?

djbeta
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01/28, 04:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
who posts these articles to this site ????

Does someone at macnn.com make the decision to post stuff like this-- if so, please stop-- you're just lending credibility to nonsense.

horst
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01/28, 09:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Cut the guy some slack!

I don't see Shipley suing or threatening to sue. He's just expressing his exasperation with a company he's helped promote.

Shipley also trained several future Apple employees whom might more properly be called his "children", but even the UI he designed and worked on for several years is understandable.

Even though it appears legal, having the fruits of your labor copied or taken away still hurts.

bxs
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01/29, 12:34am | report spam | close Reply |
I feel his pain

If I were in the fellas shoes I'd absolutely feel the same way and would react as he did/has. I think Apple owes him big time. Give the fella his dues Apple, PLEASE.

chirpy22
Junior Member

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+1

01/29, 06:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ripped

I also immediately thought of Delicious Library when I saw the iPad video. It's a little too close. Apple has made developers resubmit their iPhone apps because they used elements that very closely resembled Apple icons. So, I think DL should be given some credit here.
Also, this whole bookshelf idea breaks the UI of iTunes. It doesn't look anything like the rest of the layouts in the app. Poor design with this app, Apple!

chirpy22
Junior Member

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+1

01/29, 06:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ripped

Also, if they are going to view books like this, why not cd's and movies?
Then it would really be ripping off DL.

Hillbilly Geek
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01/29, 06:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
apple is in no danger

of a lawsuit: didn't hear any mention of legal action from Wil. everybody just dial it back a notch ;-) All of us designers feel like our designs are our "children", and none of us are saying it's any comparison to losing a child (I've lost one, myself). Yes, it's an inevitable image, but Delicious was one of the first, electronically speaking. Just remember, imitation is the sincerest form of etc, etc.

dbhinz
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01/29, 07:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
Did Shipley "steal" the interface from Packard Bel

In 1996/1997 my father-in-law had a Packard Bell Pentium computer running Windows 95 that came with the Packard Bell Navigator. Guess what the interface looked like..... :)

http://www.guidebookgallery.org/guis/pbnav/screenshots

(scroll down to the 3rd screenshot)

I also think that Wil does some great work. I enjoyed reading his "Pimp my Code" section of his blog. But as others have said, I think he overreacted.

michpeek
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01/29, 09:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
No Legal Grounds

IP law has a specific category for creation that are so blatantly obvious (books on bookshelves) that the merit no legal protection whatsoever because they simply are neither intellectual nor property.

michpeek
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01/29, 09:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
No Legal Grounds

IP law has a specific category for "creations" that are so blatantly obvious (books on bookshelves) that they merit no legal protection whatsoever... the law regards them as neither intellectual nor property.

Feathers
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999

+1

01/30, 07:52am | report spam | close Reply |
Forgetting that...

Shipley built a product on top of someone else's work, namely Amazon's databases. Whether he does or does not have or need permission to do this, he needs to check whether he lives in a glass house. The single biggest frustration with DL is the absence of a database to upload unidentified media to, like how the Gracenote CDDB database works.

Susan
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-1

02/01, 01:18am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple ripped off his design

My first reaction when I saw the iBooks interface was 'That's Delicious Library!' I thought Apple had purchased it from him.

Sure, Shipley didn't invent wooden bookshelves, but Apple copied his design instead of creating their own wooden bookshelf design. Shipley should be compensated for this.

Chopper3
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02/01, 05:59am | report spam | close Reply |
The first thing I thought when I saw the apple boo

was "oh well at least Delicious Monster will have got paid well", I know DL wasn't the first time someone had put a book on a shelf but it was the first time an application's UI used that metaphor. Given apple's billions they could at least throw the guy a pay off, he's even based nearby them if I recall, I'm sure he'd collect his payoff :)

slider
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

-1

02/01, 07:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Delicious Library User

Well, when I saw the iBookstore book shelf, the first thing I thought of was Delicious Library.

This is Monster's implementation of a UI designed for tracking your book library (and much more).

Apple does not use a CD or DVD rack for it's music or movie sales, if it's so obvious then why do they list these media in the manner they do?

No one else developed this interface before Monster.

If Shipley wanted to go after Apple I believe he'd have a case just as Apple did when it went after eMachines for the eOne all-in-one which copied the fit-and-finish of the original iMac (which Apple won).

This is not comparable to Karelia Software's spat with Apple over Watson and Sherlock - Delicious Library is not an extension of an existing Apple software/feature - Delicious Library is one of the most Apple-like (and friendly) pieces of software out there and they've worked very hard to utilize many of the Mac's features such as the built-in (and iSight) camera, interfacing with iTunes, and MobileMe. DL even has a free iPhone app for DL users.

Apple does recruit from Monster, and there's a good reason why.

facebook_Lynn
Via Facebook

Joined: Feb 2010

-1

02/02, 10:22am | report spam | close Reply |
Apple Doesn't Live in Vacuum When It Comes to Inno

Delicious Monster's Wil Shipley is calling foul on the new interface between the Delicious Monster and the new iBooks App for purchasing ebooks for the Apple iPad. I can understand why he is upset as Delicious Monster has been a best selling application for managing book collections for Mac users for years. Apple has a long history in using designs that others have made famous - or just done better.

What is different though in the last few years is the absurd patent-after-patent mentality at Apple related to user interaction. While I don't think Wil's translation of books on a shelf to software is particularly innovative, if he hadn't done this first (establishing prior art), could we have otherwise expected an Apple patent to have been filed for this?

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Developer accuses Apple of stealing UI design for iBooks

updated 10:20 pm EST, Wed January 27, 2010

App features the same bookshelf appearance

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Give me a BREAK!

Can one really own a patent on a bookshelf?

Classics

live by...

Shelfari

Rip-Off

Yes ...

Rethink the metaphor, please.

Yep

Re: Classics

huh

Yes, it was obvious

Re: Give me a break

It was my first thought...

think about it

Stealing designs

Sorry People but this is BS

It looks more like Classics

Yep ...

Didn't he go work for Apple?

Shelve It, Tuddy ...

Only Apple's interface

We get it testudo.

Thought about Delicious Library

Use the fame...

comment title

Mac OS

I had the same thought

Shipley

Was it ripped off, or not....?

What about BOB?

Apple owns him..

Shelfari...

In His Defense:

Brushed Aluminum

What happens when...

comment title

I agree

They tried

Completely different

Wil Shipley

Ugh

Bookshelf is a bad interface

This isn't cool

Brilliant Design

who posts these articles to this site ????

Cut the guy some slack!

I feel his pain

Ripped

Ripped

apple is in no danger

Did Shipley "steal" the interface from Packard Bel

No Legal Grounds

No Legal Grounds

Forgetting that...

Apple ripped off his design

The first thing I thought when I saw the apple boo

Delicious Library User

Apple Doesn't Live in Vacuum When It Comes to Inno

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