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Toronto school board switches from Macs to PCs

updated 04:35 pm EST, Thu January 21, 2010

Trustee, teachers complain


A decision of the Toronto District School Board to switch from Macs to PCs is proving controversial, reports say. The changeover was first announced on November 13th, and has since been explained as happening because a PC can be bought for less than the cost of an equivalent Mac; PCs are further described as having cheaper and easier automatic maintenance. "The Apple computer in a large-scale network -- their capabilities for automatically managing that many machines really pales to what's available in the PC world," says the TDSB's general manager of Information and Technology Services, Lee Stem.

The TDSB is already mostly PC-based, given that Macs account for only 8 percent of the board's approximate 63,000 computers. The school system will nevertheless stop introducing general-use Macs into classrooms, and replace most end-of-service Macs with PCs. The only new Macs to be bought will be ones for subjects where a Mac is considered industry-standard, like illustration or video editing.

The move has engendered complaints from some teachers, who note for instance that GarageBand is bundled with every Mac and makes it easier to do multimedia projects. It is also argued that Macs may be less expensive in the long term, allegedly because of fewer breakdowns and malware infections. The pro-Mac faction has the support of trustee Michael Coteau, who has motioned not only for continuing the Mac program but for iPhone integration.

Stem has defended the switch by pointing to studies favoring PCs in terms of overall ownership expenses. A committee has been organized to determine the exact plans for the platform migration; the TDSB has in fact renewed a contract with Dell, and already has plans to pay $6 million to the company annually for desktops and supporting technology.

Apple has a long-running history in education, and it is currently rare for a board to switch back to PCs.


by MacNN Staff

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Comments

  1. Zaren

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Aug 2001

    +28

    5000 Macs, unmanagable?

    Jeez, if they all ran the same loadset, you could probably do that with one single XServe and ARD. I think they just wanted to eliminate the one person that needed to be kept on staff to manage that number of Macs, so they could hire ten more people to manage the Winboxes that will be bought to replace them.

  1. lysolman

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: May 2005

    +23

    Money, Money, Money, Money

    That's what it is all about.

    These people THINK they will save money, but in the long run the only thing switches like this produce are jobs. Jobs for people who know how to fix broken PCs.

    "Stem has defended the switch by pointing to studies favoring PCs in terms of overall ownership expenses."

    To my knowledge, every single one of these studies have been debunked and have included unfounded information.

    Deuces!

  1. bobolicious

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Aug 2002

    +10

    straight facts & online petition

    Every time I invest in a new mac I inevitably 'check in' with the peecee world - last time I checked my MBP was within $100 of a similarly configured (plastic) DELL & less than the HP Envy which according to a review runs too hot to use on one's lap (doh!) - of course one may find a PC for less but in my experience it has always been an under spec'd machine - and the 27" quad core i7 imac seems a screaming deal at the moment...

    I run XP in Virtualbox and so I have the best of both worlds - and why would I want to limit a child's education - which is really what the apparently IT (rather than teacher) driven decision may be doing...

    Here is an online petition to voice concern:
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/keepmacsinthetdsb/signatures

  1. RoodAwakening

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Oct 2009

    +6

    Robert

    If Stem's "research" into operating expenses for PCs v. Macs is valid then who are we to complain about it? Unfortunately, such studies are so "muddied" by loyalty it's hard to determine whether the findings are scientifically verifiable. Until that point is realized, Mac fans will consider the TDSB's decision outrageous while Windows fans will be tooting the told-you-so horn as loud and as long as possible. But considering I suffered through 22 years of Windows in all its variants (3.0, Win95, ME, etc.) before I reluctantly switched to the Mac, I can't help but think the studies Stem used to justify the TDSB's decision were written, conducted, and paid for by Microsoft or its shadowed supporters. In fact, it somewhat reminds me of a study by Campbell's Soup Company that found--surprise, surprise!--that soup was good for you. Or a study funded by the Egg Board that found that eating eggs was a part of a healthy diet.

    I guess I should not only eat soup and eggs but switch back to the PC, too.

  1. Feathers

    Grizzled Veteran

    Joined: Oct 1999

    +7

    Lee Stem?

    Is that Lee Stem or "leased 'em" ? This sounds like a joke and it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. When will schools accept that learning to use a computer is not the same as learning to use Windows?

  1. JeffHarris

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Oct 1999

    +14

    Oh please...

    It's been proven time and again that Mac's Total Cost of Ownership is FAR lower than that for Windows PCs. If Macs and PCs are configured with feature parity (as close as possible) there's little price differential, with Macs often coming up cheaper. Mac support staff is 1 to 10 vs. Windows support staff.

    For $499, Mac OS X Server have an UNLIMITED user license.
    http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC190Z/A

    Windows charges $999 for only five users.
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pricing.mspx

    How does that work out cheaper than Macs?

    The only financial benefit there is for a Windows PCs over Macs is the ability for an expanded IT staff and job stability. There's no user or company/organization benefit.

  1. facebook_Ricardo

    Via Facebook

    Joined: Jan 2010

    -2

    Another pointless bureaucratic decision by the TCD

    I honestly can't think of a bigger disservice to our future generations by not giving them a grounded, well-rounded education in as many different platforms as possible. If the board truly cared about the education of the kids in the system, they would simply continue to use both platforms in the contexts where they are appropriate.

    Macs are for teaching computer basics, doing class photo & video projects with iPhoto and iMovie, and music with Garageband. These are superior, best-in-class entry level programs that are perfect for teaching these concepts to children. Anyone who denies that either doesn't care to do their own research, or is hopelessly bigoted.

    PCs are great for expanding on that with Office (Microsoft offers really good deals to schools) to teach them how to use word processors and spreadsheets, plus all of the other countless children's software and real-world applications they will encounter in the workforce.

    And regardless of platform, teach them responsible use the internet, and all of the amazing free tools available online, such as Google Docs, which is especially beneficial for low-income families.

  1. dliup

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Jan 2006

    +4

    macs = Lower Ownership Cost

    @JeffHarris,

    Good examples.

    Here is another example of lower total cost of ownership of Macs
    http://obamapacman.com/2009/10/danish-police-high-tech-control-center-runs-on-apple-computers/

  1. webraider

    Forum Regular

    Joined: Nov 2004

    +5

    Not Interested

    These people are not interested in the total cost of ownership. They are trying to cut corners today. It's time to upgrade and they want to be the cheapest dell they can find, which in all fairness is cheaper than the cheapest Mac they can find, and comes packaged with MS office etc..., Any school worth it's weight should invest in Both platforms actually. It's a multi-platform world and although I love the Mac, It makes sense for kids to be able to use both.

  1. osxpro

    Fresh-Faced Recruit

    Joined: Oct 2007

    +15

    What a load

    I've been providing Mac services, installations, and service to public schools for nearly two decades. I have first hand experience what happens when these schools switch to PC. The schools end up paying out nearly twice (as much as triple in a few cases) as much over a 3 year period.
    This is done for a reason though! Schools get more money to support these systems in the long run so their budgets go up. And with every government run program, when a budget increases - they get to keep the money and add a few percentage points every year thereafter.
    One School district I did business with figured this out and switched over dozen of their schools. Within a 12 month period, they had to add 4 additional IT people. 3 of them happened to be school board relatives. THe school district faced a budget shortfall (partly the IT dept) but this wasn't a problem because the the county simply raised the local property taxes to subsidize the overages. The absolute shame of this was the kids ultimately suffered because the PC were constantly down due to AD issues, viruses brought in by students/teachers, print issues, and on and on.
    By the way, when these computers were purchased, guess who got the Uber super premium workstations with all the extras? The school admins. I personally oversaw the installation of ultra premium workstations for admins while the students got the bottom of the barrel el cheapo PC P.O.S. systems.
    Again, this was done so they could show parents that they saved a ton of money by putting in the cheap PC's in for their kids. Meanwhile, the School admin was using a $3500.00 Quad/8 core workstation (running BACKBONE FIBER straight to it) to email and play solitaire.... Yep, the parents and media ever got to see these! and I could go on and on about how the students got royally screwed.
    It kind of reminded my of a small African nation. We send them 100 million. The governing body gets to keep 99.9 mil and the intended folks get handed a roll of toilet paper.
    That's the way this works folks!

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