...for the MacBook (and others) might contemplate including both FW & combo eSata/USB ports?

Macs aren't supposed to be downgrading performance & USB 2 is so slow in comparison I just don't get it...

BTO? On MacBooks? Where would they put that extra FWE (or eSATA) port?? Remember, this isn't a Thinkpad, where they just glue a plastic cover over a port that is not active on the specific version of a model.

For MB, they'd need to machine a separate body with the necessary holes for the extra BTO ports. How much more would that have to cost in order to justify a whole separate machining process, for only about 3-5% of the entire run? BTO options such as more RAM, bigger HD, Blu-ray drive (if they ever build a slot-loading one) are doable. Additional port simply cannot happen.

As well needing to maintain a difference between consumer and pro models (something I don't agree with) I believe there was also a simple spacing issue with the new MacBook.

Adding a FW port meant losing another port, or else making the battery smaller.

At least, that's the justification I've heard.

I hope the mini keeps the FW port. It will be really hard to give apple credit if they remove it simply to avoid competition with their other models.

If MB had FW, the only difference between the two would be an extra 2 inches of screen space, an obscure Expresscard slot (which nobody needs) and $700. Would any of you ever buy MBP again if for $700 you could get practically the same?

So, what you're saying, then, is that the MBP is a completely overpriced computer which Apple can only justify to its customers is by removing another feature from the low-end?

And most people do get this, it isn't just you. There's a ton of people pissed off at Apple at basically saying "Anyone who wants to use a laptop for 'pro' work must now buy a Pro machine!"

And this is why people are wondering about the iMacs, which are generally considered low-end or consumer machines. Seems like a perfect exclusion to up-sell people to the MacPro!

First, I'll believe a mini update when it is actually announced and released. But I can't imagine it staying around, or, if it does, the update is so crappy it makes it just as over-priced as it is now (will Apple keep out -n wifi so it doesn't interfere with MacBook/iMac sales?).

Secondly, I like how the article makes it sound so unnatural for Apple to update their consumer macs BEFORE the holiday season. You would think this would be the best time to update them, not MacWorld. Really compete for that consumer dollar, rather than the "Hey, buy our 6 month old hardware now, and watch it be outdated by next month!" way.

Finally, I can't imagine showing off a new MacPro at MacWorld, unless its going to be a MacSemiPro (the $1200 expandable mini-tower people always are clamoring for but Apple won't release).

No matter how you look at it, MacPros are serious pro machines. They have very little market or appeal to the general Mac masses. And MacWorld is basically a consumer mac show. The only ones excited are that really small group who can afford a MacPro, plus those who just like to drool over them, even though they could never get one.

I would more likely expect exciting iPhone/iPod announcements at MW.

I wouldn't be surprised to see FW leave the mini, given it's market. I'd be very surprised to see it leave the iMac.

I agree with the general reason for FW leaving the new MB. Differentiation was certainly a factor, but I think its possible it may not make an appearance if the mini is updated, for the reasons of cost and space control. If Apple wanted to keep the mini in the $500 or sub $500 range, they very well may take FW out of the picture. Its a more expensive port to include than USB2, and the mini being so small, space on the mobo could be a consideration too.
The mini is a low end consumer machine, much like the MacBook is, so there is no certainty that it will make the cut into a mini update.

But overall, I agree it will stay on the iMac line for the foreseeable future. Still not so sure about the mini though.

...might BTO swapping the 2nd USB port - only one is fully powered even on my macbook pro even when plugged in & while I don't know about the internals there are some pretty tiny USB hubs that might readily serve multi usb port needs vs no option to add FW - eSata might be possible in a combo USB/eSata port which I've seen in numerous peripherals - so the bottom line may be that no additional 'holes' might be needed to offer 4 way support FW 800/400/USB/eSATA...?

Adding FW to the MB is not simply a matter of finding space for the port. The nVidia chipset used in the new MBs does not have a FW controller. This means that Apple would need to add a FW chip to the logic board which, in turn, would likely mean a slightly larger board. Larger board means potential reduction in internal airflow which leads to either a higher operating temp or the need for a larger case to dissipate more heat.

Add to that that FW is being replaced on most consumer-level devices which makes FW essentially a legacy port and you should realize that FW is not coming back on the MBs.

Within the next 18 to 24 months, I expect Apple will have transitioned to eSATA and USB 3.0 across their line. Heck, these new models should all come with eSATA.

...seems like a red herring to me. Sure, there isn't room to fit a FW port into the current MB design. But surely that's because they designed it to not have a FW port. It's like saying the reason the iphone doesn't have a keyboard is that there wouldn't be room to fit it in.

Sadly, FireWire has not evolved. Most FW peripherals still operate at a mere 400 mbit - similar to USB2 speeds. FW800 isn't ubiquitous. And speeds faster than FW800 is just an undelivered dream.

Alternatively, Ethernet is now commonly at 1000 Mbit. And most retail products support only USB2. Yes, they have many drawbacks compared to FW. But 99% of the public doesn't own a FW device or aren't subject to the limitations of the other bus types.

So I don't blame Apple for losing the FW chipset on the new MB, and I won't expect it on the new Mini, which will almost certainly be based on the new MB mainboard. However, the iMac will likely keep the FW, as it will likely be based on the MBP mainboard which has FW hardware on-board already.

...here is an article suggesting an astonishing increase of sustained USB speed on the new macbooks which may relieve concerns if power

http://www.barefeats.com/mbpp10.html

http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

YAY!! MORE REV A c*** by APPLE!! Can't wait to shut there public & expensive guinea pig BETA practices shut down with more lawsuits.

STUPID APPLE!....

Does it feel good to stick it to the customer??

F*CKERS! A$$HOLES!

oh,.... ALMOST FORGOT - NO FIREWIRE!!!!!

hahahha!

YAY!! MORE REV A c*** by APPLE!! Can't wait to shut there public & expensive guinea pig BETA practices shut down with more lawsuits.

STUPID APPLE!....

Does it feel good to stick it to the customer??

F*CKERS! A$$HOLES!

oh,.... ALMOST FORGOT - NO FIREWIRE!!!!!

hahahha!

Outside of the MacBook and MacBook Air, every Apple computer comes with FireWire. If you MUST HAVE FireWire, buy a system that has it: but also take note that Apple is telling you upfront and ahead of time that FireWire will go the way of the GeoPort, ADB, et al.

(Anyone else note or care that Vista no longer supports TCP/IP over FireWire?)