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Psystar lawyer denies possible settlement with Apple

updated 12:15 pm EDT, Wed October 22, 2008

Psystar: No settlement

People should not get the impression that Apple and Psystar are on the verge of a settlement, says a lawyer for the latter company. Colby Springer admits that the companies have entered into Alternative Dispute Resolution, but says this is just a program required by the Northern District of California, and should not be interpreted as a sign that any understanding has been reached. "Quite frankly, all the talk about entering negotiations is really a non-story," says Springer. "The case is very much alive."

Although a settlement is possible, ADR was imposed on the two companies by a judge, Springer notes, and may only continue until the judge decides no alternate resolution is possible. The outstanding court cases are expected to progress in parallel with ADR sessions.

Legal battles began when Apple sued Psystar over its Mac clones, which the former says violate the End User License Agreement for Mac OS X Leopard. Psystar then filed a countersuit, claiming that Apple has a monopoly over Mac sales which inflates prices and makes it impossible for others to do business. This charge was countered in a dismissal motion, but Psystar has since fought back by citing quashes of motions in similar Apple antitrust suits. A ruling on the matter is expected November 6th.

by MacNN Staff

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Bobfozz
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2008

+5

10/22, 12:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
No Sympathy for Pystar

How can you have faith in a "company" who has no original contributions except to take from others? Apple didn't join that "revolution" when hardware companies started cannibalizing IBMs desktops even though the pro(phylactic)s said it made good business sense. As far as I know, no company has ever taken the blame for integrating THEIR software on THEIR hardware--it simply stops a lot of issues when the front end and the back end are merged. I hope Apple doesn't give up and that they spend their money to put this MONKEY company back into the Stone Age. Then they will have ample precedent in case anyone else tries it. Sometimes that's what that extra cash is for. Let Pystar spend its way into bankruptcy. Again it's the old song: if you can't afford it--don't buy it. Those Pystar folks took some bad advice from someone. Wanting something doesn't mean you can have it. Embrace those PCs... love 'em but don't bring your idiocy to Apple.

Guest
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 1999

+4

10/22, 02:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
It would be sad

It would be very sad for any legit company out there if Pystar came out of this a winner. I surely hope the justice system does not allow their scam to go on.

I surely hope Pystar will not last long and that this will be the last nail in their coffin. Shady business should not be allowed to exist and damage legit ones.

r00b69
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2006

+2

10/22, 02:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
An easy fix

Apple could take the wind out of their sails. The fact that this product exists is proof that there is a market space for a Mac that's between the Mini and the Pro that isn't the iMac. If Apple would for once listen to the cries of the faithful and give us a small or mini tower Mac with some expansion, then all this would be moot. I hope the newly rumored death of the Mini and the new Nvida desktop chipsets are foreshadowing a new member of the Mac family.

ibugv4
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

-7

10/22, 02:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
I hope Psystar wins

I love OS X, I hate Apple's choice in hardware. Let me have the OS I like mated to the hardware I want.

vasic
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Joined: May 2005

+5

10/22, 02:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
ibugv4

While your arguments may be valid for wanting APple to lose, that simply won't result in what you want.

Apple simply cannot be forced to allow others to use its OS. That OS is Apple's property. There is no legal force on this planet that can require it to separate it from the hardware. Plenty of precedents here, so unfortunately for you, your only choice of Mac OS X- capable hardware will be the Macs that Apple makes.

And who knows, perhaps there WILL be a cheaper 'headless' Mac in the near future.

PRoth
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2008

+2

10/22, 03:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Beat the dead horse!

Isn't this kind of like forcing BMW to make their engines available for use by a company like Kia in the manufacturing of their cars?

I guess there's nothing stopping you from buying both types of cars and doing whatever the h*** you want after the fact... Go ahead de-pimp your ride.

If someone wants OS X to run on their own custom hardware, go right ahead... buy a Mac with the OS X installation CD... Buy the PC hardware of your choice... De-pimp the PC in your garage, use the Mac as a doorstop and live happily ever after. It isn't impossible, is it? Otherwise, respect the law and stopping fabricating s***. Psystar seems like that whiny, mouthy, annoying, snot-nosed schoolyard kid with a bad sense of entitlement that you just want to pummel. Let's move on, shall we?

By the way, I'm no Apple fanboy or whatever these people are referred to. I find Apple products convenient compared to the endless stream of c*** related to the everyday use and periodic maintenance of PCs.

Feathers
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999

-3

10/22, 03:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
But...

"...There is no legal force on this planet that can require it to separate it from the hardware..."

Actually, if software and hardware are considered two distinct markets (which I think they are), there are plenty of precedents for the divorcing of the use of a privileged position in one market to influence the dynamics of another market. Or, put another way, if it could be proven that Apple was using the software lock-in (or worse, modifications to software) to prevent the purchase of hardware at lower cost or force the purchase of hardware at an inflated cost (the two not being the same), there is a very real possibility of some form of anti-competitive if not monopolistic finding. It is undeniable, that the very purchase of a Macintosh with OSX pre-installed, limits choice in terms of the addition of both hardware and software.

Guest
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Joined: Nov 1999

+1

10/22, 03:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
to ibugv4

It seems that few people understand that it is the SOFTWARE HARDWARE that truly make a difference. I hope Apple wins this one. Are their products expensive ? Yes, to some. I have an older iBook G4, can I afford a new one now? No, do I blame Apple for it? NO! They should be able to profit from their products, that is how things work. Companies are here to make money, they are not a charity. I'm a geek, I run OSX and all sorts of other OSs for fun and work in whatever setup I please, but that is all, I don't try to profit from it and moan that I can't invent anything so I will steal someone else's idea.

Guest
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Joined: Nov 1999

-1

10/22, 03:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
to ibugv4

It seems that few people understand that it is the SOFTWARE HARDWARE that truly make a difference. I hope Apple wins this one. Are their products expensive ? Yes, to some. I have an older iBook G4, can I afford a new one now? No, do I blame Apple for it? NO! They should be able to profit from their products, that is how things work. Companies are here to make money, they are not a charity. I'm a geek, I run OSX and all sorts of other OSs for fun and work in whatever setup I please, but that is all, I don't try to profit from it and moan that I can't invent anything so I will steal someone else's idea.

Amundyeus
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Joined: Feb 2005

+2

10/22, 03:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
@ Feathers

Apple also provides the OS as a separate product (so not only including it with the hardware)

shawnce
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Joined: Nov 2000

-1

10/22, 04:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
@ Amundyeus

Apple sells Mac OS X in a retail box as an upgrade. It is not sold as standalone product.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

-3

10/22, 04:19pm | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
OS X upgrade sold....

You cannot purchase the full version in a retail box so OS X is not really available separately from mac hardware.

dynsight
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Joined: May 2005

+2

10/22, 04:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmmm, makes little sense

I want to run xBox software on a Mac
I want to run PS2 Software on a PC
I want to run a commodore 64 OS on an Atari....

Fact of the matter is, there are rules and laws. Years ago, if MS decided to build PC's and the only way to get the OS was through their hardware, that would have been perfectly legal. It would have also limited their growth.

There are so many examples where a product's software (Tivo, the items I mentioned above) are proprietary and sold part and parcel with the hardware. And apple has one advantage, legally. You cannot claim they have a monopoly in any PC market.

Sure, you can be cute and say they have a monopoly in the OS X market, but then you can say that Microsoft has a monopoly in the crappy MP3 market, or that Sony has a monopoly in the Sony TV market.

There are plenty of choices (well, two) if you don't want Apple.

'nuff said.

Guest
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 1999

-3

10/22, 04:53pm | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Yeah...

Keep drinking the kool-aid guys.

We all know that competition is BAD for the end consumer. Down with hardware choices!

I understand that Apple makes OsX, and can do whatever they want with it, but honestly, how do we lose if Psystar wins? I dont understand your fanboy reasoning anymore.

vasic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2005

+1

10/22, 05:30pm | report spam | (1 reply) close Reply |
Very simple

We now have a choice of the perfect marriage between an OS and the underlying hardware. One in every 12 computer users out there has made a conscious choice to buy a Mac because Apple, one single company, controls both the OS and the hardware.

If some court decides to force Apple to allow installations on any compatible hardware out there, it would end up doing two things:

1. Kill (or cripple) Apple's cash cow, the Macintosh line;
2. Force Apple to dedicate the enormous amount of resources to support that Mac OS X on any (crappy) hardware configuration out there.

We all know how this second option has worked for Microsoft.

Personally, I don't want Apple to lose the ability to build the best combination of software/hardware they can. And to handsomely profit from it. Just like BMW must be handsomely profiting from best combination of automotive hardware out there. I'm sure I could buy a new Honda for $20,000, but I'd much rather spend the same money for 8-year old BMW.

myramoki
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2004

-2

10/22, 07:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Tie me up

Findlaw.com defines tying as "an arrangement or agreement in which a seller will sell a product to a buyer only if the buyer will also buy another product." Doing this is illegal, and various companies have gotten spanked for it.

The key situation I see here is if the judge can be convinced that OS X is/isn't a separate product. Obviously Apple wants us/judge to believe that it can't, that its only just an update for software you bought when you got the machine. Seems Apple want us to think of it as no more than firmware that will only work with their hardware, kind of like iPhone software updates. But OS X isn't firmware, its software. We know that you can run Windows or Linux on Apple hardware, so its obvious a Mac does not require X to work. And we know that OS X can be made to run on alternative hardware. And you can actually buy a boxed version of OS X. Although Apple claims its an upgrade, you can install it on a Mac with a blank drive. Most other upgrades I have to do require either a previous version, or a previous license key. Is that enough to prove that X is a product that can exist separately? I don't know.

What I do know is that this tying forces me to pick from highly limited product choices that only Apple supplies, and in some cases, having to pick much more expensive alternatives which I generally don't want in order to get one or two features that I do want. Some would say if I don't like the choices, go get a PC / hackintosh. Neither of which provides me an alternative for my parents who absolutely do not want a glossy iMac and don't want to spend the cash for a Mac Pro just to get a decently powerful machine with a non-gloss screen. OS X and the apps on it they use is what they want. But the hardware is the portal they have to go through to get it. Kind of like I might like a certain brand of car, but really need to have leather seats vs cloth. It might not make the driving experience any different but my butt is certainly going to notice.

Apple seemingly will not make any computer now where form isn't more important than function. Perfect example: Mac Mini. Instead of making a simple mid-tower unit that was half of what a Mac Pro is (half the memory, drive space, expansion slots, size and importantly cost), they have the Mini. Its useful in some situations, I even have one for my wife who does nothing more than web & email, but its underpowered or overpriced depending on how you look at it. An 'uglier' mid-tower would be far more practical, and useful to a much larger audience, but Apple doesn't provide it.

Personally, I'm no fan of Psystar, if they get squished, I'd shed no tears. But the idea of unlocking us from this closed ecosystem Apple wants more and more appeals greatly to me.

Last note: This whole thing strikes me as being very similar to Linux users wanting to buy a name brand PC without having to pay the Windows tax. Only we have to pay a Apple hardware tax to get OS X.

Guest
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 1999

+2

10/22, 08:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
Huh?!

"You cannot purchase the full version in a retail box so OS X is not really available separately from mac hardware."Dude, they sell it on their friggin website and the 200 some retail stores worldwide. Not an upgrade, the whole shebangabang. What have you been smoking. Read the specs for it. Jesus, or don't. But I have the retail disc. It's not an upgrade, it's the whole thing.

Guest
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 1999

0

10/28, 01:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
it's software

How is OS X different from any other software then? If you want to use, say, Autocad, you need a PC. There are programs for Mac that do similar things, but aren't the "real deal," and there are whole industries based on it. Should I sue because I really, really want to use Autocad but they're keeping a monopoly and impeding my business by preventing me from using it on my Mac? The argument that Apple is doing something illegal by not making a certain form factor of machine, or not making one for $500, is just silly. A manufacturer has the right to make, or not make, any product they want. You can always not buy one. Saying you are being "forced" to buy a certain computer due to monopolistic practices shows you don't know the meaning of the term. And the definition of tying above refers to being forced to buy things that are normally separate. When you buy a Mac, you aren't forced to buy OS X separately. And you can buy OS X in a box without being forced to buy any hardware. Sit it on your shelf if you want. Last, remember, we're not talking about individual users hacking a PC to install OS X. We're talking about a company that is using the intellectual property (and copyright owners, be it software, artwork or entertainment, have the absolute right to control the use and distribution of their copyrighted work) and reputation of Apple as the primary selling point of their product, without any license or business agreement. That's plain illegal. That they run off to a court to try to create a right to do this is, as Mr Spock would say when he saw humans do something that was completely illogical, "fascinating."

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Psystar lawyer denies possible settlement with Apple

updated 12:15 pm EDT, Wed October 22, 2008

Psystar: No settlement

No Sympathy for Pystar

It would be sad

An easy fix

I hope Psystar wins

ibugv4

Beat the dead horse!

But...

to ibugv4

to ibugv4

@ Feathers

@ Amundyeus

OS X upgrade sold....

Hmmm, makes little sense

Yeah...

Very simple

Tie me up

Huh?!

it's software

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Psystar lawyer denies possible settlement with Apple

updated 12:15 pm EDT, Wed October 22, 2008

Psystar: No settlement

Related Articles

Recent Articles

No Sympathy for Pystar

It would be sad

An easy fix

I hope Psystar wins

ibugv4

Beat the dead horse!

But...

to ibugv4

to ibugv4

@ Feathers

@ Amundyeus

OS X upgrade sold....

Hmmm, makes little sense

Yeah...

Very simple

Tie me up

Huh?!

it's software

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

10 Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace