As far as Leopard being buggy? I have had a few little problems, very minor to say the least. But nothing so bad as to want throw my computer through a wall, like when I had the Window's boxes.

An example, this weekend I spent literally a few minutes and networked an Apple TV, 2 MacBooks, Mac Mini, 2 PowerMacs and a Denon AVR 4308ci home theater via Airport. Literally took "MINUTES"!

My one loan windows XP Pro sp2 laptop can see my network, but cannot connect! I gave up after a few days/weeks. I gave it to my dogs to play with! Now that is BUGGY!

I would agree that Leopard is a bit buggy, but we're still way better than we were at OS X Beta. I've got some sync issues, and my iMac doesn't like to shut down (I prefer that to not liking to start up). I'm pretty happy with it, I'll be thrilled when I can run back-ups off my AirPort Extreme, if that ever happens.

must be out arguing with MLK Day marchers.

about what, i have no idea. but i'm sure he'll come up with something.

yes, lets not release any products until they are 100% bug free, who gives a damn about progress.

Anyway I'm going back to my MacPlus, now when are they going to release system 7.6.2?

I've got Lep running fine on my MB Pro, and await fixes for Photoshop, etc. at which time I'll update my G5.

The comment about promised deadlines (set by suits) reflects one reason I got out of working the web.

As others have stated, perfect software doesn't and will never exist.

10.4.11 is only weeks old. Should Apple have only just released Tiger (assuming there won't be a 10.4.12 at some point in the future)? We've recenntly had updates to Java. Should that be a brand new feature on the Mac? Should Java have not been available on the Mac at all until very recently?

I haven't had any problems with Leopard except two. On day one I had trouble staying logged into my wireless network and there was an update that corrected that within 24 hours. The other issue is the sparsebundle for my iDisk grows to massive sizes over time if I use auto syncing.

Apart from that, Leopard has been the most stable .0 and .1 release from Apple ever in my personal experience. I haven't had a single crash or kernal panic. No BSoD's, no unusual behaviour of any kind.

Until God Himself gets into the software business there won't be perfection. And I think He's got slightly more important issues on His mind just at the moment.

I do a lot of consumer installations.I've seen the installer fail a bunch of times. Safari/Flash is very buggy. There are tons of Leopard stability issues and of course the Stacks are real love it or leave it feature. I am telling my customers not to rush to 10.5 if the need to work (in 10.4.11) which is very stable. Extra features are nice...but I have seen a lot of crashes... and have the log files (and sent feedback, natch) to prove it. Patience is a virtue.

Not to be an azz, but do you know what you are doing?

This is one of the most stable OS's to date! A few hiccups, but nothing even comparing to all of the problems I have EVER encountered with Windows.

Just asking?

AirPort. I can appreciate the complexities of creating a modern OS. I can also testify to Apple's software and hardware stability being a loyal user for 20+ years. But how the wicked serious bugs in AirPort got through the testing program is completely beyond me. And it can't be blamed on third parties either. Scan through Apple's discussion boards and you will find voluminous numbers of people AirPort equipped Macs & Apple AirPort base stations that completely lost the ability to use AirPort networking. AirPort is not a new feature, and for the most part (with the exception of some of those who did AirPort updates right before Leopard was released) it worked just fine with Tiger. Buggy new features are much more forgivable in my opinion than established (and critically important) old technology that WAS working just fine.

I am and will remain a huge Apple fan, but please don't do this to us again!

I'm sure the manufacturers of Ethernet cables will be unhappy when this is fixed.

.... or has 10.5 felt like 10.0?

yeah, let's hope they get all the airport issues ironed out before the macbook air is released! that would be embarassing.

to me so far. I have installed it on 3 Macs (one a Japanese language only mac) and all have been flawless. I agree with the 100% bug-free comment. It is impossible. You try and write code in C++ with out bugs or odd memory allocation issues etc. (Alright, Object C to those picky people)

It has worked great for me so far and I am recommending it to my the rest of my family.

To the person that said that 10.5 reminded him/her of 10.0 must never have run 10.0. Now, THAT was painful.

I must live on some other planet, because the troubles I did have with Airport are now gone with Leopard. Networking is now a breeze, I even set up a music/movie server via Airport. And it took minutes to do. I never had such luck with Tiger.

Even my Sprint USB aircard is working better under Leopard, along with allot of other things.

Apple is doing something right, no gripes here.

Leopard is close to perfect. That's why the 10.5.2 update is expected to exceed 400MB. I guess all that space is being taken up by what then?

Hopefully they'll fix the dock, at least. The changes to the documents section just make it plain useless for folders. "Hey, let's pile up the icons inside folders placed in the dock on the dock, so when someone sees the icon for the applications folder, they'll think it's the applications folder, and not the user's home folder! And it'll make it a lot harder to quick-open a folder too! IT's Win-Win!"

Not that I care. I've tried leopard. Found it not worth the energy/time/issues (the new isn't that exciting, and the problems with upgrades, whoever's problems they may be, isn't worth it, but as I've been told many times, no one says you HAVE to upgrade).

And I guess all you "there's no real problems" people aren't those who use filevault, for Leopard does a really good job of s******* up filevaulted home directories on upgraded computers.

But I'm sure that's the fault of the users...

My one loan windows XP Pro sp2 laptop can see my network, but cannot connect! I gave up after a few days/weeks. I gave it to my dogs to play with! Now that is BUGGY!

I would assume you're using WPA2 for your network. I think what you need to do is get the WPA2 update for Windows XP.

Details here:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/893357

My upgrades run from 10.5.0 were actually surprisingly smooth, considering Tiger was an absolute nightmare for me from 10.4.0. I think a lot of it is people making rash comments because they are ticked it isn't flawless out of the box.

I've yet only seen minor issues personally, though some of those minor issues can sometimes have more major effects. I was incredibly impressed as I actually expected much worse.

SP1 for Vista is not really a good comparison as Microsoft does also release fixes aside from service packs, though Apple also does so. Service Packs usually are feature enhancements with fixes or updates to core technologies that effect minor issues.

Drivers are typically separately released as there is no need to bundle them in service packs. Apple has typically bundled video drivers because of their relation to core services but camera or printer drivers shouldn't need to be bundled with 10.5.2.

Remember that Microsoft makes available drivers that they have confirmed from the device manufacturer, they don't actually develop the drivers. For cameras & printers Apple will likely be the same.

Seeing as how Apple "pulled a Microsoft" and rushed the product to market before it was done and before it was ready_

Seeing as how the entire OS is buggy - Spotlight - Safari - Mail - the Finder - Dashboard - iChat - even the Calculator is s******* up on occasion_

I think users should be ticked if it isn't flawless out of the box. If software companies plan correctly they should have plenty of time to test their software before it is released to the public. Especially in the case of Apple, where they know their user base and they know exactly what kinds of computers their OS will be running on - because they made them! There's really no excuse for having a buggy Mac OS of any version.

Do you really think the public should have to beta test Apple's software? Or any software? After spending over $100 to purchase it?

I don't use Time Machine, or Spaces, and when it comes to the iTunes-like visual view of the Finder, well, if one drops a collection of files into a folder, it bypasses the folder and throws things all over the place(!?) Huh? This I do not like at all!

No, I don't need the visual view either, until it works. Apple is going to have to do a lot more to make this not only as stable as Tiger, but way better, to make it justifiable as an upgrade, and not just a fancier Tiger.

Right now, Leopard is not stable.

I do not really seen why most of you are upset by the translucent menu or the stack. Yes the stack could be better, its still not that bad. I love the menu as it is. I have not had any problems with Leopard outside of Microsoft Office OS X and Adobe PDF not printing properly but thats prolly due to that software package and not Leopard. Yes, I am anxiously awaiting the update just because I always update my programs. Chill out guys, Leopard as it is now, already blows out of the water anything that Microsoft has ever released.

"To the person that said that 10.5 reminded him/her of 10.0 must never have run 10.0. Now, THAT was painful."

Funnily enough I seem to remember the usual line up of suspects who could find nothing wrong with 10.0 at the time. Their critical facilities seem to only emerge posthumously after the next upgrade.

As to those who argue over whether the glass is half full or half empty, I'd like to be there when they pay for a drink in a bar and argue that it is half full then!

Tiger is now at .11 (eleven fixes)

Of course it is stable.

Ahh but any remember the tiger versions prior to 10.4.4?

I would assume that those that need stable systems would of course wait until Leopard went througha few fix upgrades and all the 3rd party software and hardware had a better chacne to iron out any bugs.

Of course many people are early adopters and just "have to have" the latest and greatest as soon as it shows up.

Those that bought new machines with Leopard only bought them at a time that I would have waited if stability and compatiblity is an issue.

And of course this happens with every major update.

10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5

And will further continue. And those that think 10.5.0 was the buggiest release I bet never used 10.0 or 10.1