toggle

AAPL Stock: 503.68 ( + 6.01 )

MacNN News

Salon: Macs indeed cheaper than PCs

updated 10:20 am EST, Thu November 8, 2007

Macs cheaper than PCs?

Despite popular perceptions, Macs are cheaper computers to own than PCs, a new article argues. Although the Salon piece concedes that most Macs are more expensive than comparatively-powered PCs when purchased, they are said to maintain better resale value, offsetting any initial costs. Held up as examples are last year's HP Pavilion Media Center A1640n, and a Mac mini; although the Mini would have cost $799 versus the A1640n's $699, while being less powerful, the resale value for the A1640n has plummeted, and is now between $236 and $257 on eBay. By contrast, the Mac mini is going for $445 to $500, netting a $50 advantage. [corrected]

Similar price balancing can occur with notebooks. A Dell Inspiron E1505 from last year, selling for $999, is now on resale at a peak of $550. A comparable MacBook would have been $1,099, but these are now on eBay for costs between $710 and $800, easily recouping the difference or improving it.

The article contends that the difference is attributable to an inherent longevity in Macs, which makes them useful for as much as five years, whereas some PC owners may have to upgrade every one or two years. Apple also has more brand value, particularly because it has devotees who will only buy Macs.

by MacNN Staff

(34)

TAGS :

Apple

Share the Article

Facebook Twitter Delious Slash Dot Digg

toggle

Comments

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

11/08, 10:27am | report spam | close Reply |
Must be true!

Since they say that the Mac is better, it must be a true article. We all know the Slate is a fine e-zine that would never make anything up, not like those b******* over at ZDNet!

gudin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2000

0

11/08, 10:39am | report spam | close Reply |
testudo, it is true

I know you relish you self-appointed position as the resident rain on the parade, but what exactly about the article do you dispute?

Or is it that you're just going to use sarcasm to impliedly discredit it, without actually having to address the substance? There is too much of that in politics, don't really need it here.

As far as the article is concerned, it seems to me that it was an interesting point. PC fanboys constantly go on about how much cheaper PCs are, but they never think resale value, but generally, with a PC, there isn't any, so it is not even within their consciousness. Macs DO have resale value, and that is a perfectly legitimate point.

1. Brand new models of macs are generally the same price (sometimes cheaper) than similarly configured brand new PC models. True.

2. PCs drop in price so a not brand new PC model (say 4-6 months past initial release) is often cheaper than a similarly configured not brand new mac model. Also true.

What this writer is saying, is that even if you get the mac when the model is not brand new, and could have gotten a similar age PC for less money, you can (if you're willing to put in the effort) generally make that money back in 1-3 years when you go to upgrade to you next machine. Macs have resale value. PCs, much less.

What is the problem with this argument again?

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

11/08, 10:39am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: must be true

Testudo, what's your point? The article was comparing resale value and backed it up with data. If you disagree, then back it up with data.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

11/08, 10:40am | report spam | close Reply |
Resale value

Resale value is a joke. "Hey, you can sell last year's laptop this year for more money, so it must be better!"

Then again, maybe the higher resale value has to do with the actual market of new computers. New Macs one year over the next may not be appreciably better (just compare this year's mini to last years), but the price stays the same.

However, in the PC market, you can buy low-end laptops NEW that meet or exceed last year's model, for a lower price. Therefore, there's going to be less demand for used laptops at higher resale values.

But, I'm sure the half-glass-full crowd will point out that Apple's limited computer line-up, never reducing prices, and not daring to overlap a product line has its advantages.

I mean, that extra money will come in handy to pay the finance charges you needed to incur because you ended up buying a more expensive Mac.

climacs
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

11/08, 10:41am | report spam | close Reply |
i've got a headache

from another witless post by testudo

I don't know how often anyone re-sells their computer, but what I do know is that virtually every non-nerd PC owner I know, periodically has to pay some PC repair shop to fix their PC when it slows down for no apparent reason. That, of course, assumes the PC repair shop knows what they are doing and actually fixes the problem without making it worse.

Then there's the productivity and time lost to blue screens of death, virus attacks and malware, maintaining anti-virus software, hardware conflicts, and so on.

A Mac is virtually trouble-free and I can train anyone - even my technophobic mother - how to do the minimal maintenance required when occasionally things do go awry (repair permissions/Disk Warrior).

climacs
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2001

0

11/08, 10:46am | report spam | close Reply |
what's a virus?

when you tell PC owners that you have never had a virus on your Mac and have no anti-virus software installed on it, they literally cannot believe you.

I own a G3 iBook and a G4/533 tower. Both work just fine for nearly all of what I do. I don't know anyone who has a PC that's five years old which they use day-in, day-out. It is f****** ridiculous that one should have to replace a computer every couple or three years but that is exactly what PC owners do.

Macs are cheaper in the long run but the average consumer is somewhat ignorant of how to make a rational purchase decision and so they only look at the up-front cost.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

11/08, 10:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Oh

And should I mention that you could buy a 15" laptop from Dell this year, then get one next year, for less than getting one this year from Apple. And if you count resale value, you probably could get 3 for the price of 1.

And if you want a tower or a computer you can expand, its $2500 for the Mac. How much is that PC again?

And resale value only works if you don't get screwed out of money on ebay.

simdude
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2004

0

11/08, 10:58am | report spam | close Reply |
testudo

who exactly are you quoting here:

"Hey, you can sell last year's laptop this year for more money, so it must be better!"

I couldn't find that quote anywhere. This article isn't about which is better. It states long term cost is lower. The author gave examples of equivalent machines at purchase time and deltas if resold in a year.

I've found the same to be true with my own purchases. I sold a 4 year old Powerbook for over $800. Equivalent pc laptops of the same generation were currently selling for less than 1/2 that. I paid $2000 for the laptop new and could have saved a couple hundred with a Dell coupon model at the time. That puts me ahead about $200 after 4 years.

Do you ever add something useful to a forum testudo? At least the fanboys could argue they enjoy their machines and that enjoyment along is of value. But to simply go to a website dedicated to mac news and post childish comments is really sad. I hope there's something in life you have a passion for.

chaaalie
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2002

0

11/08, 11:06am | report spam | close Reply |
Chew on this ...

I just installed Leopard on a 6-year-old PowerMac (G4 dual 800mHz, 1.5G RAM), and it is nearly as fast and much more reliable than the year-old Dell (Dual Core 3.2GHz, 3.5G RAM) I am forced to use at work - which, by the way can't be upgraded to Vista. (I'm a graphic artist dealing in extremely large formats ... PCs really just aren't that good at what I need them to do.)

Another artist here just realized that he's on his fourth PC since I bought my Mac ... he has spent more than $6,000 on hardware in that time, I spent less than $3,000 in November of 2001.

The ultimate irony: We'll probably both be in the market for a new machine in about 18 months ... Think he's getting another PC? Nope.

Tins
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2007

0

11/08, 11:07am | report spam | close Reply |
Duh

Duh

chaaalie
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2002

0

11/08, 11:12am | report spam | close Reply |
NOTE ON "Chew on this"

To be completely transparent here, I should note the following:

Technically the g4 wasn't Leopard-compatible, I installed it via a work around when I realized that the MB and graphics cards were the same as in other supported machines, so the only thing in my way was the arbitrary "867 mHz" chip cut off.

The year-old Dell simply isn't Vista capable. (I don't know -- or care -- why.)

dennisobell
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2002

0

11/08, 11:13am | report spam | close Reply |
salon, not slate

You guys might want to change your headline and opening graf -- I'm sure the Farhad Manjoo and the other Salon folks would love for you not to be promoting their primary competition!

eldarkus
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2004

0

11/08, 11:16am | report spam | close Reply |
The HOW TO:

How to create a testudo post:

1) Pick apart a sentence or paragraph word for word. The slightest inaccuracy will make you feel far superior to someone you don't even know.

2) Don't use facts: Facts just muck up an argument. Argue the vague statements or words posted. It's much easier than doing research on facts.

3) You don't have to be right: Proving the other person wrong is a lot easier than proving yourself right. Always take the easy way out.

4) Use Sarcasm: It has been called the greatest defense for the weak minded. Use it at all times cause it makes you feel better about yourself and boosts your ego. It also helps you to avoid facts.

mmirage
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

11/08, 11:20am | report spam | close Reply |
wow, testudo... just, wow

I rarely post on these boards. Seems you are a regular. But you rarely have real details to back up the claims. So, here's the challenge... compare that 15" Dell laptop to a 15" MBP. Show us the specs. Tell us how they compare, not just in price, but in features. Prove to us your fantastical arguement by using current models, current pricing, current features.

I actually like a bit of reality in my debates.

Although I will agree that I wish I could upgrade my stuff a little easier (towers or not), I do know that in real life I rarely make use of the feature. I've only ever replaced 3 video cards and 3 networking cards in my 15+ years of using both PC's and Mac's. One each went into the Mac, 2 into the PC. Oh, and I've owned/maintained about 2 dozen Mac's, and 1/2 dozen PC's. So again, I'd like it to be easier to change components, but I rarely need to on the Mac, so I'm content with what I've got.

Person Man
Professional Poster

Joined: Jun 2001

0

11/08, 11:27am | report spam | close Reply |
Testudo...

Testudo is no "regular." He doesn't post in the MacNN Forums at all. His sole existence is to rain on every single article on MacNN that casts Macs in a positive light.

ViktorCode
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2006

0

11/08, 11:55am | report spam | close Reply |
That's true

just because testudo says it is not.

Seriously, if you resell your computers to buy new ones on regular basis then 'the rent' will be lower for Macs than for your average PCs.

But really, who cares. Even if you couldn't sell your Mac for decent price would this fact prevented you from buying Mac in the first place? Of course not.

csimon2
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2000

0

11/08, 12:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Mac ebayers are idiots!

I say this with full declaration that I too am a frequent mac purchaser (always NIB). But the article does bring up a good point in that the resale of macs are much higher than their PC counterparts. Just have a look on ebay... you'll see the insane prices that even antiquated macs go for. Just crazy. Want a late model G4 tower? Better be ready to drop around $500. $500 for a system that is 3 chip generation technologies old and won't be able to run Apple's latest OS when the switch to Intel becomes permanent. I just can't fathom how a G4 tower is truly worth $500 today, but there are definitely plenty of idiots out there who are willing to feed this insane market and keep prices way up. The resale market is probably the only place where I envy PC users.

broohaha22
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2006

0

11/08, 12:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
@Macnn: SLATE????

This is from Salon.com, Editors. And of all the publications you choose to confuse Salon for, it had to be Slate. It's like mistaking Apple for Sony.

tobor68
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2007

0

11/08, 12:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
cheap PCs....

...are a false economy.

do people really think they are saving money?

i guess most people don't think ahead.

tomodachi
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2002

0

11/08, 12:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
/

@ simdude

" I hope there's something in life you have a passion for."

Shhhhh..... don't you get it? Posting his s*** here IS his passion. Don't take that away from him!

On second thought, go right on ahead. He's a d***.

fashizzle
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2003

0

11/08, 12:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Proof right here

I'm typing this on a single proc 1.25 GHz MDD G4 running Leonard, bought the day it came out. My pal bought himself a top of the line PeeCee the same day. Since we bought our machines, he has bought 2 other PC's (the latest just to run Vista) while I'm on the same Mac.

So yeah, Macs are cheaper by a LONGSHOT. Plus, his original PeeCee couldn't even run Vista. This G4 runs Leonard quite well. Add the costs up of what he spent and what I have spent, to the day. Mac = considerably less money spent.

So dear mac-hating PeeCee fanboys,

Suggit.

Yer pal,

Average Mac user

Chris Tucker
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2007

0

11/08, 01:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Proud Mac Fanboy!

And here's why.

I was running a Blue and White G3 Mac, Rev 2 logic board with a 450 Mhz processor. It was running OS9, I installed OS X 10.3 on it. I instantly let Software Update do it's thing, which brought it up to the then current 10.3 release.

Eventually, I installed 10.4. Again, I let Software Update run and install the latest (at the time) version of 10.4. And then, my Mac died. I bought a nice used 1.42 Ghz Dual Processor G4, the "MDD" (Mirror Drive Door). Let me say that again. 1.42 Ghz. G4 Dual Processors. I changed out the drive for the one in my G3.

Powered it up. It booted into OS X 10.4.(mumble) without a hitch.

Then there's my keyboard. It's a 20 year old Apple Extended Keyboard. Hasn't given me a bit of trouble. It uses real mechanical key switches and not that conductive polymer c*** in "modern" keyboards. Great "feel" too. The current crop of keyboards feel like like I'm poking at a slab of Silly Putty.

I did have to buy an interface from Griffin in order to use the Extended on the MDD. Well worth the modest sum. Oh, and Leopard works perfectly with this keyboard. I just needed to hit a couple of keys for Leopard to recognize it (I was using the WWDC 2007 beta of Leopard).

There's a very good reason Mac fanboys are Mac fanboys.

calverson
Mac Elite

Joined: Jul 2007

0

11/08, 01:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
software?

Include the fact that you get the Mac OS & Bundled software with it, (as well as a remote haha) in my opinion it turns out cheaper.

calverson
Mac Elite

Joined: Jul 2007

0

11/08, 01:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
software? 2

And I understand the topic is resell value. But it should be considered that you do get a lot more with a new mac than just "Vista c*** Edition"

Even with the higher end iMacs, consider buying a PC:

with the same specs (and not a generic 20" monitor, something with matches Apples) wifi card bluetooth firewire Vista Ultimate, (to compete with 10.5??? haha) a web-cam, $100 worth of software to compete with iWeb, iMovie etc, a decent mail client, EASY to use dual-booting software, EASY to use backup software to compete with Time Machine, anti-virus software (that you would need for a PC),

and you are starting to look at, actually, something of comparable value. And then with the apparent advantage of resell value, it might be something which is actually affordable.

Windows users are put off by the initial price of a Mac, but don't realize the price of buying something more conventional.

However, Apple are not going to compromise by releasing a lower-grade product to compete with a Win Desktop, and it seems Windows users will remain ignorant to the above, so I doubt there will be very much change in the long run...

Pennywigeon
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2007

0

11/08, 02:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Testudo?

New Mac hardware runs

OSX, Unix/linnux Flavors, Windows XP, Windows Vista.

PC's give less options. They cannot run OSX

In the end it is up to the consumer which one would be better for them. But Testudo your argument is lacking.

Mercedes M class

Or a Ford Fiesta

Both are cars both have similar options.

In the end I bet Testudo is a Ford Fiesta kind of guy.

After all Cheaper is always better am I right?

The dollar menu cheeseburger at McDonalds is far better than going to a Steakhouse and getting a Porter House.

In the end you get what you pay for and many people use RESALE value as a way to determine what something is currently worth.

Something is worth what you are willing to pay.

In other words Testudo you have shown us you are a pretty cheap person.

I think the term is "cheapskate"

You have cheap arguments. Cheap points. Cheap data. Cheap ideals.

Like an old used suit at Goodwill.

calverson
Mac Elite

Joined: Jul 2007

0

11/08, 02:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
concur

i concur with pennywigeon on testudo...

It is comparing a $50000 car that is basically an engine and a steering wheels, with a $75000 car that has a sunroof, heated seats, blu-ray player, free swimwear model etc. and saying that the 50000 car is cheaper... duh... but look at what you are getting, capi-tan.

karmatose
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2007

0

11/08, 03:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Here goes..

A comparison...

A homebrew PC (prices from a local retailer..) Asus P5K - $150 Intel C2D E6550 - $185 8800 GTX - $550 2GB PC6400 DDR RAM - $80 DVD-RW - $30 Chassis - $50 22" Acer Display $250 320GB HDD - $120 MacOS X 10.5 - $130

For a grand total of $1545

A 24" iMac (CTO to get the options close) - 2GB RAM -Stock HDD -2.4 GHz CPU

Total $2065

Now, come a few years down the road, I can replace my GPU, Add more HDDs, Increase RAM to 8GB, etc all for a minimal cost -or- over time. And, I dont have to try and sell my machine to make up the cost.

Any way you slice it, this article is flamebait from Apple fanbois

chaaalie
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2002

0

11/08, 04:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
but ...

Karma,

Your homebrew might be fine, but your $250 monitor is where you get the savings -- and will certainly see the difference. The Apple doesn't cheap out on the displays ... If you want to compare more faithfully, use the Mini ... (Which is only $800) and don't forget to add iLife ...

Because, after all, you need to be comparing Apples to apples!

Pennywigeon
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2007

0

11/08, 04:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not to mention

Homebrew you would have to run a hacked version of OSX in order to run on the non-apple hardware. The pre-installed applications that come as extras, also better quality Monitor ands the DVD burner in the iMac is a DUAL layer not Single Layer burner and a warranty and support from one vendor instead of many.

In the end for the average user you can (a)

buy a bunch of cheap aftermarket parts and spend hours slapping some duct tape job together to save a few bucks or you can spend 10 minues and order one preconfigured.

I don't know about you but for me time = money. Nothing productive about "building a PC" when I can just order one and be productive within an hour of recieving it in the mail.

Luxury car versus economy car.

Some people love driving Yugos. Go figure

karmatose
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2007

0

11/08, 04:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
@chaaalie

Im looking at the display on my 20" iMac right now and I actually prefer my Acer display on my studio machine at home. It may be an inexpensive display, but its certainly not "cheap".

chadpengar
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2001

0

11/08, 04:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
mac purchase costs

When comparing similar equipment, name brand non white box PCs and Macs are always in the same price range. PC purchase prices, for similar HW, is about the same. People always compare PCs with half the specs of the Mac to claim PCs are cheaper up front.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

11/08, 05:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: mac purchase costs

When comparing similar equipment, name brand non white box PCs and Macs are always in the same price range. PC purchase prices, for similar HW, is about the same. People always compare PCs with half the specs of the Mac to claim PCs are cheaper up front.

But what if you only need/want a Mac with half the specs? There's only so many options for the mac. Again, what if you just need a computer that you can install a couple of extra internal hard drives? Mac cost? $2500. Dell cost? $500-$4000, depending on everything else.

Don't want to waste money on a web cam? No problem with a PC. Big problem if you want a Mac. But, that's OK, just include it, what's a little extra cost? Need the power of an iMac, but don't want to spend all that money for an integrated screen (which means that, if the screen goes, the computer goes to?). Too bad.

But I'm sure when someone wants to spend $1000 on a computer, you can talk them into a $2000 mac, because, once you add in all the features they weren't going to buy, it'd cost the same!

Johnny Niles
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2007

0

11/13, 06:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Testudo

"But what if you only need/want a Mac with half the specs?"

Then you're not doing a direct comparison, are you? And your argument falls through again. A PC with fewer features than a Mac doesn't qualify as being "cheaper" - it falls under the "you get what you pay for" category.

Like that other guy who tried to compare a PC to a Mac by listing inferior components (and leaving some out completely) and then saying that the Mac was more expensive. That 22" monitor isn't a 24" monitor. How is that the same thing? The 22" monitor looks worse and has lower resolution. The PC he listed doesn't have a webcam, but the Mac does, etc.

Whether you need those features is irrelevant in this argument. What's relevant is the comparative cost when you include all the features, as well as the lack of features on the PCs. Since this is a discussion about COST, you can't get away with saying PCs are cheaper while admitting that they have fewer features and crappier components unless you also admit that Macs are simply worth more.

Compare feature by feature and PCs stop looking like such great deals.

nushustu
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2007

0

11/15, 11:20am | report spam | close Reply |
testudo

there's another problem with your math. If the ONLY thing you worry about it bottom-line price, not quality of OS, not quality of phone support, hardware, compatibility, time spent to actually build your own pc, then you shouldn't limit yourself to the legalities of getting a computer. The CHEAPEST computer you could get would be a high-end mac or PC that you stole. If we're only worried about spending as little actual cash as possible, why spend any money at all? Just steal it. Certainly, there is a risk in getting caught, and the jail time that would ensue, but that's just one more thing to not add into the equation...

Show More Comments

Login Here

toggle

Network Headlines

02/16	Mountain Lion updates to be funneled...
02/16	Apple shifts schedules for OS X updates...
02/16	Cook sees merging of notebooks, tablets...
02/16	Apple claims backing for rights to...
02/16	Intel may push Ivy Bridge back to June...

Show All

02/16	Cook sees merging of notebooks, tablets...
02/16	Apple claims backing for rights to...
02/16	Intel may push Ivy Bridge back to June...
02/16	Ex-Olympus President, other execs,...
02/15	Sony completes Ericsson stake buyout...

Show All

02/16	Cook sees merging of notebooks, tablets...
02/15	Apple upgrades iBookstore with screenshots...
02/15	Congress asks Apple to answer questions...
02/14	Apple attempting to disrupt Siri hacks...
02/14	Readability iOS app delayed, Android...

Show All

02/16	Garmin nuvi 4.3-inch Portable GPS Navigator...
02/15	Monster iCarPlay Wireless FM Transmitter...
02/14	Refurb. 16GB iPhone 4, now only $259...
02/13	Refurb. Flip UltraHD Pocket Digital...
02/10	$380 off refurbished 2.8GHz Mac Pro...

Show All

toggle

Salon: Macs indeed cheaper than PCs

updated 10:20 am EST, Thu November 8, 2007

Macs cheaper than PCs?

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Must be true!

testudo, it is true

Re: must be true

Resale value

i've got a headache

what's a virus?

Oh

testudo

Chew on this ...

Duh

NOTE ON "Chew on this"

salon, not slate

The HOW TO:

wow, testudo... just, wow

Testudo...

That's true

Mac ebayers are idiots!

@Macnn: SLATE????

cheap PCs....

/

Proof right here

Proud Mac Fanboy!

software?

software? 2

Testudo?

concur

Here goes..

but ...

Not to mention

@chaaalie

mac purchase costs

Re: mac purchase costs

Testudo

testudo

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

Connect tools:

Subscribe

to our RSS

Follow us

on Twitter

10 Most Read

10 Most Discussed

MacNN Marketplace