The "Ugly" PC is not just s reference to the outside of the case. Look at the inside of a Mac Pro and a WinTel PC. The Mac is clean and elegant inside. When a company takes the time to engineer a product with this much thought, it reflects the quality of the entire design. As people push for the lowest cost, cheapest route to achieve the end result, we will eventually be left with nothing but boring, poorly engineered products. I'll pay the extra for a well-engineered product, thanks.



Well, since mac users are often told they have no reason to open a case (nor PC users, since no one upgrades any computer), who cares what the inside looks like. And what Macs are you opening, since most macs aren't even designed to be open by users.

When I open my G5 tower vs my Dell, what do I see? Sure, the Mac looks nice inside (an all important consideration for those thinking of swapping the case for an acryllic see-through one), but the Dell doesn't look bad either. And I notice my Dell has lots more room for exapansion (more slots, a PCI express slot, and more hard-drive/external drive spots) then my 3 times as my expensive G5 tower.

And I just love that third-party lack-of-support when it comes time to try to fix my Mac's bad DVD burner or to add a hard drive. Can't just buy any, better make sure it works specifically with the mac (that's right, some WD drives don't work with certain macs because of Apple's SATA implementation on them).

Yes, Ive purchased both 10.4 and 10.5 for use on my Hacintoshes. Even though im violating the EULA, I still atleast own my software.

The Software License Agreement clearly states that Leopard can only be installed on a single Apple-branded computer (in the case of a single-use copy) or up to 5 Apple-branded computers (in the case of a Family Pack). The operative words here are "Apple-branded".

My machine is Apple branded. Its in a PowerMac G4 case.

Ethical, no. Loophole, yes.

Im waiting for the next Macmod.com contest to let people see my machine seeing as how I missed the boat on the 2007 contest.

karmatose-

How did you manage to get a legal copy of 10.4, when there was no intel version offered at retail? The only legal purchase of 10.4 would have been a PPC only box, which would not work on your hackintosh.

I bought a PPC version and downloaded some Intel restore disks, then used my own kernel.

..Atleast I gave them money for the software im using.

If thieve stole a Mercedes and put tacky a** spinner wheels on it, would that be news too? s**** the hackers!

...at least Karmatose claims to have paid for the software, so kudos for that. Clocknova's response in that regard is strangely absent.

Enjoy tinkering on your Hacintosh - of course, by the time you added up the time tinkering, you could have paid for a Mac Pro -- but I guess some people's time has no value associated with it. Still, nice job feeding your Mac envy.

I have zero Mac envy.. I have a few Apple machines too. Like on my desk right now, I have a 2.16GHz iMac that I do all my graphic design on (due to legal reasons of running a hacked OS in a production environment) and at home I have a DA PowerMac that serves as a Linux server.

In addition to those machines, I have my desktop Hacintosh, My "Hacbook" which is a Thinkpad T40 that i bought for $50 and My PVR that runs Linux/MacOS/XP MCE. Its not an envy thing, its an I want a decent video card without spending a rediculous amount of money on a Mac Pro kinda thing. I

...response, as it demonstrates, beyond the shadow of a doubt, how much of a disconnect from anything Mac that kid has...

Testudo: "And what Macs are you opening, since most macs aren't even designed to be open by users."

I guess reading comprehension is lagging behind, considering that not only was the original poster very specific about listing a Mac Pro, but YOU EVEN QUOTED THAT SECTION IN YOUR CRITIQUE ("Look at the inside of a Mac Pro and a WinTel PC") - oh boy, how much more a fool can you possibly be...?

Testudo: "Sure, the Mac looks nice inside (an all important consideration for those thinking of swapping the case for an acryllic see-through one)"

As if we needed any proof that Testudo hasn't laid eyes since the Mac Plus that burnt him, but anyone with a Mac Pro (or PM G5) would know that it *comes* with an acrylic cover, and means to show off its insides.

But wait, it keeps going...

Testudo: "And I just love that third-party lack-of-support when it comes time to try to fix my Mac's bad DVD burner or to add a hard drive. Can't just buy any, better make sure it works specifically with the mac (that's right, some WD drives don't work with certain macs because of Apple's SATA implementation on them)."

The acs will accept any industry standard IDE or SATA peripheral, to replace DVD burners, or internal hard drives. The aforementioned compatibility problems with *some* SATA drives was related to the NCQ implementation in select batches of select manufacturers (notably Seagate) - a problem that affected Mac and PC boxes alike (which is why Seagate and others have now disabled NCQ on their shipping drives, or fixed the implementation. )

Granted, none of these would work on testudo's Mac Plus, but then again, nothing really does. Maybe he would be better served upgrading to a ZX-80.

Your Dell, eh? Figures.

First - nobody cares that your "tricked" out the case of your PC. Unless you live in some cyberghetto.

Secondly - sorry the Mac doesnt do it for you "gamers" - which, by the way, is no coincidence that rhymes with "lamers"

Thirdly - don't you know how stupid it is to brag that you are cheap?

Fourthly - OSX is NOT simply software. When will people realize that Apple offers integrated solutions, and that is why they are both successful and cool.

Fifth - OSX on a PC is probably the most uncool thing I can think of.

Doofuses.

Since you are so sure of yourself - please post your real name/address/email.

Afterall, if you are doing nothing illegal - what is there to fear?

But if you dont, then just shut up. Because the obviousness of your lies is overwhelming.

Doofuses.

Not to get into the fight of why this happened ... the speed with which this happened is probably a bit worrysome to the folks at MS.

What if Apple did eventually release a non-specific version of OSX? Obviously there would have to be some features disabled (to get those, you'd have to buy a Mac!)

MS isn't selling Vista at the rate they hoped (had to "extend" the life of XP and offer "downgrades!") ... but if Leopard is close enough to "compatible" that it can be rolled out HOURS after realase ... You'd think Apple could make it work on a whole lot of other machines if they wanted to. (Even if they partnered with Intel to have Dell and others produce some "OSX ready" machines - even if they ship with Windows installed.)

Just a thought ... Imagine what could happen to the sales numbers then?

Im just gonna rip apart at your fanboyish comments just because I don't like people insulting me, albeit indirectly.. This is not meant to be a troll.

First - This is one of my hobbies. Some people build cars, some people build model aircraft, and some people build over the top computer cases. I happen to be one of these. Bashing someone's hobbies because you feel its "uncool" is not too cool in itself.

Seccond - Again, don't bash someone's hobbies. Gaming may not be for you, but calling someone lame because they want to play some Madden or NHL on their Platform of choice Win/Mac/MacOS on Generic hardware with the best experience possible isn't lame. Its personal preference. I personally enjoy that I can play whatever game I want with my machine at resolutions of 1920x1200 with zero lag.

Third - I don't consider myself cheap. I have a job that pays around $65K a year. I have plenty of toys. I have several machines from Apple as well. My Hacintosh experiment was more so I could game on MY platform of choice without having to drop $3K on a machine to do it well. And since it outperforms my iMac that cost almost double it, I would say its a good investment.

Fourth - OS X is SOFTWARE. Its BSD with their own window manager over top. Now I may be oversimplifying it, but its not far from the truth. Everything "just works" on my Hacintosh too.

Fifth - Thats your own personal opinion. Care to back it up with why you think that?

...Man, fanboys are annoying.

Ooooh. Nice insult, Robttwo. How long did it take you to think that one up?

Well, when Apple raises the price of MacOS X and adds product activation, we can thank those who think it is their right to run MacOS X on whatever hardware they want.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a well-paid, super-intelligent, awesome dude. It's cool to be on-line, isnt it? You can pretend to be whatever you want.

Oh, you didn't tell us who you are.....?

Now, go back to playing your games,

Doofus.

Fair-use under copyright law likely says differently. He probably is in his legal right to hack the Mac OS to go on a Windows based PC.

However, depending on how the hack was done, the person providing the instructions could be liable under the DMCA.

You write, "The Software License Agreement clearly states that Leopard can only be installed on a single Apple-branded computer (in the case of a single-use copy) or up to 5 Apple-branded computers (in the case of a Family Pack). The operative words here are "Apple-branded"."

Im in Canada. DMCA does not apply. And as I said earlier, my homebrew PC is in a PowerMac G4 case. Its technically an Apple branded PC.

And as I said earlier as well: Ethical, no. Loophole, yes.

@Robttwo: Im not giving my personals out on the net.

those are the same "limited choices" you have when you bought your g5. right?

@Robttwo: Im not giving my personals out on the net.

Oh go on Robttwo, he probably just wants to send you a christmas card (-;

I think mac journalists really work at it to make hackers or people that use the hack feel like victims. Even the regular journalists did it with people who bought an iPhone and knew they were locked to AT&T for two years. I know some of you feel justified to use Leopard on your PCs because you are a loyal customer. Maybe Apple hasn't made you a pizza box that is expandable (on that's right, they did, but it ran Mac OS 7 and was PPC. Those sucked huh?)for your impossible to fullfill needs in the $499 budget. Whatever your reasons, you know its wrong and you'll continue to tell us how much its better than our limited and expensive macs. My gosh! I have seen the light! I'm going to get a PC!

", its an I want a decent video card without spending a rediculous amount of money on a Mac Pro kinda thing."

Which, without the proper drivers, will never run at the full potential that you want it at. It's like slapping in a super-powered video card, and not caring that it performs like a GMA950?

Karmatose, I know you were just being flip when you said, loophole: yes, ethical: no.

But in point of fact, you shouldn't give up the ethical argument. It is entirely ethical to use your purchased software as you see fit. It's apple who is, being technically legal, but completely out of bounds with the norm of society.

Apple: ethical no. Karmatose: ethical yes.

All these people saying you aren't getting your money's worth, or cheap.

Baulderdash...people aren't stupid, its entirely the opposite. For about $1000 you can outgun Apple's $3000 machine.

That's the whole point of doing this exercise. I too own a Sawtooth G4, and I will be upgrading the motherboard to some manufacturers Intel Core 2 duo board, and I will install, completely legally, my copy of 10.5.

Completely ethical, by the way.

By the way, all you claiming that its a windows pc, need to do some reading. My apple macintosh G4, has never ran Windows. Apple themselves have sold motherboard replacements, not only for parts, but during the 68k to PPC transition. Motherboards that run Core 2 duo, can run Linux, Aros, FreeBSD, Mac OS X and more.

The point being, some of you have got it in your head, things feel a certain way, and seem a certain way...and you subsitute that for ethics.

The fact is, it is not only completely legal to upgrade your PowerMac G4 sawtooth in any way you see fit, including a motherboard swap...it is also completely ethical to buy software from apple and install it on your Apple branded machine.

That isn't a loophole....thats life, deal with it.

Apple is no stranger to forcing people into a corner and extracting money at the highest dollar. Have fun with your iphones in your AT&T prison. That's legal in some countries...completely illegal in others. Apple will not stop themselves...they will stop right where the law forces them to stop, because they have no ethics on their own, beyond what is legal.

Given you support that behavior in Apple...you should be cheering karmatose on, rather than jeering...that is, if you were consistent.

"By the way, all you claiming that its a windows pc, need to do some reading. My apple macintosh G4, has never ran Windows. Apple themselves have sold motherboard replacements, not only for parts, but during the 68k to PPC transition. Motherboards that run Core 2 duo, can run Linux, Aros, FreeBSD, Mac OS X and more."

Ah, now we get to the crux of the matter. What makes it an Apple computer? Clearly, replacing parts such as RAM, a hard drive, a video card, etc. doesn't change the essential nature of the computer.

A motherboard, on the other hand, contains the brains of the computer. Also note, the processor can be changed without changing it from being a Mac. At one time, I would have said the ROM on the motherboard is the key distinction. Not sure if this is valid anymore, so I'll stick with an Apple motherboard being essential to the character of it being an Apple computer.

Now, let's head your (and Karmatose's) direction. It would appear that in his/her case, heh, the case of the computer is used as a shell for a PC. Perhaps the power supply was used. Are you arguing that a case makes it an Apple computer? What if I just take off the Apple logo and stick it onto a PC case? It's got an Apple on it so it must be an Apple computer, no? Claiming a recycled Apple case makes it an Apple computer is absurd.

"The point being, some of you have got it in your head, things feel a certain way, and seem a certain way...and you subsitute that for ethics."

A non-sensical assertion. Absent a few jeers to Karmatose, it's a simple fact that installing OSX on a PC violates the EULA. And using an Apple case doesn't change that. You're welcome to argue about the ethics of that all you want.

"The fact is, it is not only completely legal to upgrade your PowerMac G4 sawtooth in any way you see fit, including a motherboard swap...it is also completely ethical to buy software from apple and install it on your Apple branded machine.

That isn't a loophole....thats life, deal with it."

It's not a loophole, it's simply incorrect. You appear to support that idea that anything with an Apple logo on it is an Apple. Perhaps I'll stick one on my car and claim I've got an Apple car.

Given you support that behavior in Apple...you should be cheering karmatose on, rather than jeering...that is, if you were consistent.

How long have you been using Macs? [21 years in my case.] Perhaps you might remember how the Umax, Motorola, and Power Computing clones were killing Apple. Its business model didn't provide enough revenue from selling the OS alone. For a look down that path, take a look at the shape Palm is in. A few hobbyists hacking PCs to run OSX isn't a big deal. OSX being installed on PCs (and you know it would be pirated) would kill Apple. So, I don't have a problem with a few hackers out there prancing around with their PCs running Mac OS. Nor do I have a prob

I'd rather see a million hackers running OSX than a single one of them running Windows. If they are not going to buy Macs, then no money is "lost" to Apple. As long as they pay for OSX, then they are really doing nothing wrong.

As far as the EULA saying "Apple-branded computer", I don't think EULAs are technically enforcible anyway. How can you enforce something that no one reads?

Not to defend testudo too much, but I think he is referring to iMacs and laptos as being largely non user upgradeable.

Also I am always amazed at the lack of knowledge most Mac users have of their own machines.

Only Apple supplied CD/DVD drives are bootable.

Yes you can replace them with other drives but in an emergency you won't be able to boot off your System disks. And you'll wish you had been paying attention.

No it was Apple's slothful incompetence.

The clones kept on trumping Apple just as they had back in the old Apple II days.

Lard-arsed Apple just got all winded and didn't even try to keep up.

The whole point of introducing the clones was to try and force a culture change at Apple and make them truly compete instead of hide behind various forms of protection.

Trouble was the people of Apple were like the communist workers after the fall of the Iron curtain. Unemployable after years of feather-beding.

When Steve Jobs came in he made a choice between his Big Fat Mama on the sofa and the hot chicks down the road. He now owned the Big Fat Mama, so he shot the hot chicks.

I would agreet that Apple needs to offer a mid tower, bur in reality.. They simply need to lower the price of their MacPro Entry level machine. I purchased one re-furbed and I can honestly it is engineered Better than ANY other PC out there. I've never been able to upgrade a computer so easily. It's worth every $.