Thank you MacNN for posting this potential flame-war bait. Not many are buying it today, tho' ...

We're a bunch of b*******!

This is like Army vs Navy, Packers vs Bears, Miami vs Detroit, Chocolate vs Vanilla. They all have their fans and there is room for more.....I'll stop being fan-girly about my Mac (products) when all you Microsoft whiners stop smirking every time I pull out my Mac Book Pro. To each his own.

While I might agree to a point with some of his opinions, the fact that he gets basic information absolutely wrong take away a bit of his legitimacy.

"AT&T refusing to provide unlock codes for iPhones is against federal regulations"

This is totally untrue. The government said that carriers can not sue users who unlock their phone. And that's not even a regulation, it's a guideline issued by the copyright office (or whoever that government body is). There is no law, regulation, or anything that obliges phone companies to provide unlock codes.

This doesn't make me a Mac zealot, just someone who would appreciate if so-called journalists would get their facts straight.

That is a good point about Konfabulator and Apple Widgets, but I would point out that I seriously doubt M$ would have developed the "gadgets" has Apple not done their Widgets. So while Apple may take many ideas from others, it seems M$ just takes them from Apple's Mac OS X (or so it seems looking at Vista). I think the comment about coverflow is misplaced as you can't call if a rip-off if you paid for it.

But on another note, Apple did total rip-off Waston when Apple upgraded Sherlock, and I refused to use Sherlock in favor of Watson and paid to support Watson, so what does Waston's creators do, they sell off Watson. The Sherlock died too.

One thing to remember though, I seriously doubt Apple would have made it through the dark times before and the first couple of years after SJ returned. Say what you will about apple fans, they've proven a last line of defense, what else would you expect from a group of people that could keep a company afloat.

This article does have some serious merit, but do you know how much c*** I have had to listen to as a Mac user? It's completely unsolicited. I do IT work and have worked with both PC's and Macs in my 12+ year career. I mention that I use a Mac to PC techs and they just GO OFF!!! They immediately start bashing my choice of systems.

Obviously, a Pulitzer caliber journalist.

Anything written by these on-line "journalists" isnt worth the paper they are printed on.

Or the pixels.

Doofuses.

Are the writers who continually trot out the old "Mac cult fanatics are teh suxxorz!11" byline every few months. Seriously, if you have nothing to say, can you just say nothing instead of repeating c*** that's been said roughly 1x10e6 times before? Yeah yeah, there's Mac fanatics, and yeah they're loons. Guess what? There's also Windows fanatics, Linux fanatics, FreeBSD fanatics, Amiga fanatics, BMW fanatics and IKEA fanatics, and they're all loons and none of them are newsworthy.

To me, an article that contains the phrase "Mac cultists" or "the Macintosh faithful" is a sure sign of a writer and/or media outlet in trouble. There should be a corollary to Godwin's law on this.

I think this article has merit. I once used PC's (until about 2-years ago) and bashed Apple at every step of the way. It led to arguments with Mac users as I am/was a network engineer and I was forced to network OS9 machines to Windows NT 4.0 through Unix validation boxes along with several other platforms. I hated Apple and their stupid OS. Apple had the hardest OS to network with others and they were a pain in the a** to deal with. I had to go to Apple 'training' for the new OS (OSX) and I hated every second of it.

Fast forward several years...my wife uses OSX at work, she loves it - my kids use OSX in computer labs at school, they love it...but I still hate Apple. I decided to make the switch after my Dell notebook took a dive. I knew I would hate it - but I didn't. I am by no means a fan boy but I take pride in my choice to switch. I have been happy every time I log into the computer because it does what is is supposed to, every time with no issues - ever.

That said, Apple is no different than MS when it comes to how they do things. It is worse with SJ but the products are better...go figure. The article has some inconsistencies yet the fundamental points made are valid. Apple should be held to the same standard any other software/hardware company is held. Apple has a base of fans that PC users love to point out and pounce on. They feel Apple can do no wrong - yet as a company they can and do make incorrect choices and some that may be illegal as they lock-down a system or platform.

I love my MacBook, my iMac and my iPhone but I am under no illusion that Apple can do no wrong. The longer I own Apple products the more I see that I do not like...not from the product but from the company and how they decide to do business.

I think the fan boys for Apple are on a different level from other fans of other products. I just don't care what others think. I make my choice based on me. my needs and those of my family. If you think that is good - great. If you think I made a bad choice, great...as it is your opinion but I would NEVER base a decision on what others think or say. I just don't give two craps.

MacFanboyz and MacSheep are absolutely the worst - unable to think rationally and calmly.

And yes, I'm a Mac user since 1989.

It could be argued that the widget engines stole the idea of simple desktop mini-apps from the classic Mac OS desk accessories, and that Dashboard just brings the idea full-circle.

Don't like Safari? Grab the ONE icon and throw it in the trash. Empty trash. You'll never see it again, and no other application will ever require it.

Don't like IE? Tough.

EOT

Has it occurred to anyone else that maybe the higher proportion of zealotry among Mac users is a function of the platform's smaller market share? There are plenty of 'foaming at the mouth' types on both platforms but the Windows fanboys are drowned out by the sheer volume of 'normal' users while the smaller Mac scene means the annoying fanboys are more noticable.

Maybe instead of giving the cultists a kick in the a** (I can't see that helping) us "calm, rational, objective" users just need to get off our asses a bit more often and make ourselves heard over the noise?

... filburt, I laughed my head off at the Amiga comment - not least since I'm a reformed 'mig nut myself! I was insufferable as a teenager, then I grew up and got a Mac ;)

Ignorant people like Jason Cross are worse of them all. Their custom of judging other groups of people they had unpleasant collision with (deserved, most likely) which is based on the lack of knowledge (historical, technical, juridical - you name it) - that really places them in a special category of "anti-fans", who is trying to contradict every statement coming from a supposed "fan". I'm sure, that by saying this I too become an "Aplle fan", just because I'm not agreeing with mr. Cross.

Due to the 80% idiocy rate you will always have "fanboys" on both sides as I have had to deal with the smug NT crowd for its usable (oxymoron) lifetime which, thank God, is rapidly coming to a close after it effectively killed NDS which was vastly superior on the more reliable and flexible core of *nix. However, regarding whether fanboys are right or wrong I will point to several quick points that to me expose the true quality at the core of the companies; 1. Faith in their own products, XP to remain as a shipping OS for 6 months and my bet is that will be extended again as Vista desire is truly dead in the water (Dell is shipping/pushing Linux and what will happen when Amiga OS5 ships?). Apple allowed OS9 to coexist after OSX but never allowed it to be the shipping OS, spending lots of dough to make the transition smooth for their user base as they have with every major change, OSs, platforms, all smooth. How much did M$ spend of their billions on smoothing the user or IT professional transition from Windows 2.0 to 3.11, 3.11 to 95, etc etc, none, the user had to pay in both cash, downtime and lost revenues. Apple doesn't look for fast dollars at the expense of their software/hardware/users while M$ pumps out c*** that they tell you you need that never works as advertised and kinda tries to fix it as you pay them and then pay system integrators and consultants forever (name one M$ product that had all its advertised features at launch and think how many had features that just didn't and then never worked out of the box). 2. Future vision, Ballmer predicts (that is a joke in itself a hundred times over remember NT 5.0??, that is funny) that 25% of M$ revenue will be from internet advertising in 5 years. Yeah, that's what I want my OS and primary applications vendor focusing on. Big vision there, 'ol Bill saw the handwriting on the wall and is long gone, the air is slowly leaking from the rubber boat built with his extortion-like licensing and business practices, seems what goes around comes around, remember Standard Oil? all gone and pretty much forgotten except for a lesson on how not to run a business, years from now M$ will have the same legacy, good riddance. 3. Viruses, plain and simple this is an exposé on the total vision of systems and the care and development/production methodology used to code them. Don't start with the "not enough Macs to justify a virus" c***, malware is either an ego venture or now a money maker, breaking OSX should be the golden target for these guys and I am still waiting to justify putting anti-viral software on my machine…

Bottom line; at least Apple "earns" their fanboys.

For the past 15+ years, I have had to put up with being ridiculed, belittled, mocked, laughed at, and otherwise challenged over my platform choice. I don't know why people do it, but it happens all the time. "Oh, lol, he's a stupid Mac guy. Get a real computer."

Yes, this makes a lot of Mac users, especially long-time ones, defensive.

Here's the thing. We know we're on a great platform. Some of us, like me, have spent considerable time on other platforms making that decisions... (In my case, my first computer was an Amiga, followed by DOS machines and Apple IIs, then Macs, but then worked supporting Windows...) The Mac doesn't win every comparison, but we know it's really solid, and we've made an informed decision.

What would you do after 15 years of being laughed at by people who are basing their opinions off of rumor, old experiences, and ignorance? Yes, occasionally, informed people choose other platforms, and make good arguments, but the buildup of uninformed mocking gets old.

So yes, we get rabid. We have a lot of lies and misconceptions to overcome, and many of us have a history of being belittled over what OS we happen to run.

As a Mac user since 1993, I have always said that if Apple stopped making computers I would go back to using pen and paper.

While I may not be a rabid fan, I am an extremely loyal fan.

Mr. Cross' assessment only helps to disenfranchise users of a system he enjoys. His comments reek of someone who doesn't do his homework when it comes to computer systems and their users. I'm just glad he didn't sink to using "Zealot" or "Fanboy", two words that should be put out of their misery on tech forums.

Hay, at least Apple creates a product its users are proud of. I've never seen a Windows user proud of their OS. I rarely see a proud Dell owner (at least, not for more than a couple days).

"Cross also claims: --fans believe that the company can do no wrong. --about iPhone's lack of real 3rd party applications, and the lockdown from Apple's partner AT&T. --but the thing he hates most about using a Mac are the "Apple fans."

Please, what a dweeb!! :-) The guy hates Apple cause of all things---- NOT Apple!!! Is he just ranting for clicks or does he actually dislike products because of totally non-related events???

I see rabid fans of all kinds of things. Rock bands, computer companies (all kinds), game machines, games, tv shows, etc, etc, etc.

Maybe Cross just hates all things "not Cross." ?????

Me, I just like things that work as advertised. I like friendly tech support. I like not having to "fight technology" to use it. Sorry, that is just me.

Later, en

I bought my MacBook Pro in January and love it. Without question Mac OS X is a superior OS to Windows. And Vista... Well, is there really a need to go into that?

As a Telephone Tech/System Administrator who works with Windows, I was bound to get some razzing from my colleagues, despite too much of our time being spent virus infections, BSODs, etc. Nevertheless, they never get vicious.

Enter the iPhone.

This little device appeared on the scene last summer and I criticized it. Say what you like, to me it's the pretty cheerleader with not much upstairs, that can't compete with other cheerleaders, and handcuffs you to a deal with one provider for FIVE years. That's just plain awful. Well, once I let that little nugget of opinion out I felt the wrath of MacoFascists. They were flat out pathetic.

Apple delivers products that are the envy of the industry. Nevertheless, some in the Apple fan base are harming what should be an even faster rise.

I find it hard to fight back these days...

passionate technologies put me to sleep

seems the writers have so little to add anymore