> It's a risk you know you're taking when you get a 1st generation upgrade.

This is an appalling statement. Apple market themselves on the basis that their computers 'just work'. One of their Mac/PC advertisements focuses specifically on PC crashes where the Mac implies that he has no such problems.

It is disgraceful to think that when consumers spend upwards of $1,000 on computer equipment, that they should accept a poor quality product.

I have experienced this on my MacPro after the recent firmware update.

"It's a risk you know you're taking when you get a 1st generation upgrade"

This is rubbish.. Just because its an iMac in a metal and glass case, doesnt make it 1st gen. Its just an evolution of the rest of the intel iMac line. It may as well be Rev E, or whatever its up to now. As for AppleCare, thats all very well.. But the point is, you shouldnt feel like you have to buy it. Yet these days we do, because Mac hardware isn't built very well any more. I've been a Mac user for 15 years. All 4 of the last macs I have bought in a row have turned faulty. This is including 2 of the latest iMacs (one was a replacement for the other). They both have exactly the same fault. Apples QC has taken a major slide..

>It is disgraceful to think that when consumers spend > upwards of $1,000 on computer equipment, that they >should accept a poor quality product.

But isn't that the MicroSoft business model?

At this point they believe it is a software issue, the hardware quality is not even a question in their mind at this moment. It is really likely these machines were supposed to be running Leopard at this point and therefore the hardware was designed to take advantage of things like Core Graphics. It is likely a firmware update will take care of this issue, as soon as they track it down.

Keep this issue in mind the next time you insist that Apple use the absolute cutting edge video card technology.

Thay expect a manual boot? Are they kidding? Even if I knew any guy named Manual, I would not let him in my house to kick my 'puter! Why does it need to someone named Manual anyway? And, wouldn't that take him away from his duties of pool cleaning and weed pulling?

The poster wants to rebuff me for having perhaps have used anecdotal evidence, and then tries to refute my argument with his own anecdotal experiences.

well people would be very well advised to absolutely listen to the 'non representative, non scientific samples' ...because if you cannot live your life without a research paper from Harvard, you are going to end up buying a lemon.

I would absolutely listen to advice about bad products from internet posters, because they are just telling the truth about the lemon they got stuck with, and giving you good advice that should give you pause and caution.

Frankly, if you ignore it, you get what you deserve, Apple has a long history of rushing out flawed product.

I had some good machines...my G4 sawtooth is only now freezing up on a daily basis...but it served me well for a long time, and given its age, that machine, I think we fairly reliable...but G3 ibooks, and G4 ibooks, and issues with the G5's and powerbooks, and now the imacs....I would double check before buying any mac I was considering to make sure it wasn't one of the long line of lemons.

"But isn't that the MicroSoft business model?"

Not quite a valid point as Microsoft don't make computers.

"It is really likely these machines were supposed to be running Leopard at this point and therefore the hardware was designed to take advantage of things like Core Graphics. It is likely a firmware update will take care of this issue, as soon as they track it down. "

Yes, they were probably supposed to be running Leopard by now. However, they are known to still freeze with the Leopard beta. And even Windows XP. So this fault is deeper than the OS itself. If its not hardware, then it could still be shoddy graphics drivers, as Apple/ATi cobbled them together for all 3 OS's.

I just got off the phone with Apple a few minutes ago. Surprisingly, they are still no closer to knowing what the problem is. Only that its 'probably' a software issue, and that a software update could be some time away yet. They just dont know. I did mention I was considering a refund, and the lady at Apple said thats fine. Even if I wanted to wait a month or 2 first to see if an update fixes it.

Not a great solution, but reasonable....

I don't have an issue with using anecdotal evidence, I use it myself; I have an issue with when you make a blanket statement that Apple is worse at this than other computer companies about this when that simply is not true, there were plenty of other computer makers out there that no longer even exist because of poor quality. Packard Bell for instance.

My point is that with having overseen and personally installed over 4,000 Macs in my 20+ years of experience in universities, businesses, and schools (Junior High schools are a great test for computer quality) I've seen failure rates of somewhere in the less than 0.6%-0.9% range, and in each and every one of those instances the problem was resolved to my complete satisfaction. I do have more anecdotal evidence than a sample study that Harvard research paper would even use.

By the looks of it though Apple isn't trying to push this under the carpet, it has been mentioned that Apple will offer refunds to people even if that person decides to wait a couple months for a fix.

There is no Official tech bulletin out on this yet, I eagerly wait for a solution, but am confident that there is one.

who said windows was the viable alternative? sounds like people just want it fixed. what posts are YOU reading?

I've had a 20 inch Aluminum iMac for over a month now and it has exhibited NONE of the aforementioned problems. (Both before and AFTER the firmware update) So to self righteously slam the the entire company and quality control of such is a bit presumptuous IMO. While I will agree that the problems reported are proportionately higher than normal I'm pretty sure that it does not affect the MAJORITY of the new users, and I am also sure that Apple will take the proper steps to correct the problem. Not that I think that it would be an "altruistic" move on their part, but purely PR related. If I was a guessing man, which I am, I would guess that the problem DOES lie in the new ATI card and the drivers for those cards. From what I understand it is a bit of a hybrid to begin with and there seems to be some confusion as to what it IS exactly, so we are talking about some tweaks to a driver, and I'm pretty sure that the issue can/will be resolved in a reasonable amount of time. That being said, I have NO regrets about my purchase so far, and having been a mac user both personally and professionally since around the time the IIfx was introduced I can honestly say that I have not seen a drop off in quality of any of the products I have purchased. (And I have purchased a LOT). In fact, quite the opposite is true. Being the quasi "mac IT" for my company, it gets harder for me to justify new purchases for our artists as our older macs JUST REFUSE TO DIE. (And I don't have the heart to kill'em) Anyway, the negatives always seem to get more attention, so I figure a p[ositive post might be in order here. (First post here also, BTW)

WRC

My 2.8 GHz 24" iMac works beautifully and I had had one kernel panic (my wife was using it not me). Hopefully I don't encounter any of the problems.

This Dell Inspiron 8600 running Windows XP MUST be restarted every day and often 2-3 times per day or the OS becomes unusable. Windows Explorer crashes several times a day doing nothing, and the Windows debugger follows suit and crashes as well. While Explorer can be restarted, it is compromised and suffers lost functionality until the machine is rebooted.

It is reformatted and reinstalled every 12 months and runs only well known and well tested software. All anti-virus and malware tests come up negative, nothing wrong there.

In other words, all my Macs at home are far, far more stable and useful. This - Windows - is a productivity vacuum.

Just adding some perspective while sipping my coffee...

I've been having the EXACT same problems with my MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz (NVIDIA 8600M GT). For literally FOUR MONTHS, Apple has done NOTHING to address these issues!!!!! I can't run Second Life for 5 minutes without it locking up and crashing. The cursor and keyboard periodically stop responding randomly even when just doing nothing in particular. Also I get kernel panics when plugging USB MIDI devices in, while Garage Band or Digital Performer are running. The Second Life problem has been traced to an IOKIT error (memory leak) in the NVIDIA drivers. It's truly sad that there isn't even an NVIDIA Control Panel for OS X. Apple insists on writing the GPU drivers themselves, and they suck horribly at it. Why not let NVIDIA or ATI write the drivers???? COME ON GUYS!

Is it the exact same problem if the problem is caused by different circumstances? At least your problem is reproducable, the problem with the iMac is no one has been able find an exact cause yet, at this point it appears to be random. And after looking at Second Life's Minumum System requirements It makes me wonder if they really have tested the Intel Macs very well. The video cards they have listed there are a completely different class of card than what is in the MacBook Pro. The fact they don't mention anything about Intel Macs makes me wonder...

Your USB MIDI device issue is likely something else, but I don't have enough info on what you are using to even take a stab at that.

Why doesn't Apple let the Card makers write the drivers? Is there anyone at ATI or nVidia that want to? or even have the ability to? I'm suspecting a big fat NO, why would anyone at ATI or nVidia know how to write ANY code for Macs? What might be needed is a closer relationship between the video card people and the Mac OS people. It's not like there are a lot of decent Lynix drivers for video cards either, for the same reasons.

Thanks beta testers for finding problems with the iMac. Saved Apple a bundle by having to pay for QA.

At least there isn't any lead paint in it.

Where's the outrage here! This is yet another Macintosh hit job on macnn.com! You should be ashamed of yourselves!

Apple is Great! Long live Apple!

Long live our Macintoshes (until we buy a new one to replace it)!

I originally ordered the white 24" iMac and in the process of shipping, etc. the system was "upgraded" to the aluminum, without my knowledge. I only found out after complaining about them setting back the ship date and was told that they were switching to the new versions.

My first iMac 2.8ghz 24" had constant freezing problems and after a week and a 1/2 of too may PRAM suggestions, I sent it back for a replacement.

I'm on my 2nd iMac and it 's doing the same thing! It's all over the map re. which program is running but since I mentioned Photoshop asone of theproducts on my last support call the response was: "Apple is not responsbile for any 3rd party software compatibility".

From what I've read out" there" it would seem not what the poster stating it's probably software. There were a number of articles about a possible recall of a bacth of defective ATI Radeon 2600 cards: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/recall/-284931.php.

Then came the 1.1 update. I saw ona post where someone was able to deconstrct that update and it was updates to the ATI card.

My original order was in July and now it's October and I still don't have a functioning system to be able to launch my graphic design business.

I was convert from Windows and have been using a 12" powerbook for 3 years, but my graphics needs grew beyond the little box, so I opted for the iMac.

I'm stuck and am not sure what to do. Apple has not been helpful at all. I may have to take the machine to a local store.

After having been on my 2nd machine with freezing problems, I definately suggest that people wait for some assurances about the efficacy of these machines from Apple before buying one of these new iMacs.

The only thing I'm ashamed of is all the whiners.

They're fixing it,

the only way a computer will ever run prefectly is if they decide to never update any hardware, then no one would be happy.

"if I spend $1000 dollars on a computer...blah blah"

Sheesh, I bought a Mac IIfx back in the say for $12,000, Guess what, it still runs fine. I can't do much with it though.

Most of this makes no real sence, I just had a rough day at the shop, so many people expect too much when it comes to computers. They want super computers, but they don't want to pay for it.