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Italy joins movement against iTunes, DRM

updated 10:00 am EST, Wed February 7, 2007

Italy joins music movement

Following an official response to Apple CEO Steve Jobs' open letter on digital music, senior advisor Torgeir Waterhouse of the Norwegian Consumer Council told MacNN that Italy is joining other European countries in applying pressure to Apple and the iTunes Store. According to Altroconsumo -- the largest consumer association in Italy that prints it's own periodical magazine with tests as well as reviews -- Italy is hoping to achieve an online music market with no barriers. Altroconsumo has formally contacted the Italian Antitrust Authority, the Italian trade ministry, and the minsitry for the economic developement that Apple reviews its DRM policies for a more open model that could serve as an example for other operators and major music players, according to Macity.

The report also states that Italian consumers should have the right to use any player on the market to listen to music acquired from the iTunes store, noting that Apple's DRM is not the worst or most invasive technology but that the Cupertino-based company has become the primary focus of recent criticism due to its dominant position in the digital music marketplace.

by MacNN Staff

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rvhernandez
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

0

02/07, 10:25am | report spam | close Reply |
They Just Don't Get It...

After all that letter had to say, they just don't get it. Its called a free market people! If you do not like the iTunes Store, don't use it.

Last time I was in Europe, they still sold shiny little discs even they call CD's. Take those home and RIP them (yes, an American term used for converting the music on a CD to a digital format for use on a PC) and put them on your player of choice.

Maybe next, the EU will force MS to develop Office for Linux?

gambit23
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2004

0

02/07, 10:34am | report spam | close Reply |
I don't get it:

How come Apple (whose software works on both Macs and PCs) is being slammed by the European countries when the other stores don't even WORK on Macs? How does that make any sense? Everyone can keep a closed system, but Apple can't, when Apple's system is the only one that is truly cross-platform. Good job, Europe.

hardcat1970
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: May 2000

0

02/07, 10:34am | report spam | close Reply |
double standard

i wonder why nobody came out and attack MS or any other stores that only offer music for windows only. And why no WMA support on mac platform. At least itunes is available on mac/pc.

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

02/07, 11:02am | report spam | close Reply |
double standard

I'll tell you why they are attacking Apple...

Apple is on top of the hill. If you knock down the king of the hill, it's up for grabs (and not necessarily for MS who they'll knock down too).

So, all these politicians who are pushing for a change are in somebody's back pocket... and that somebody is poised to run up the hill and make a lot of money.

It's as simple as that. If you took money of the picture, they could care less about the DRM.

As a note, if Apple folds before the others (MS, Napster, Wal-Mart, whoever), somebody makes a lot of money filling the vacuum. If Apple stops selling in that country, somebody makes a lot of money filling the vacuum. If ALL the companies open up their DRM or there is no DRM at all, everything stays the same... people keep buying iPods, people keep using the ITMS�as long as it stays the best music store, competition is good and Apple is very good at it.

Peter Bonte
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Joined: Aug 2001

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02/07, 11:05am | report spam | close Reply |
All media

I hope this gets into a law that removes all digital media DRM, on music, games and movies.

All gaming consoles are closed and MS is the biggest player with online DRM'ed Movies. Why only b**** on Music and Apple?

apple4ever
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2001

0

02/07, 11:42am | report spam | close Reply |
Wrong Target

Attacking Apple is the wrong way to fix this. They are bound by contracts to have DRM by the MUSIC LABELS! Apple can't change what they are doing without the approval of the Labels. That's who they need to attack. Pass a law saying no DRM, and that the labels still must sell songs online. End of story.

Flying Meat
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Joined: Jan 2007

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02/07, 11:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Double standard

I gotta think at this point that deal has the right idea. They want to force Apple to either pull out of Europe, or open up so much that someone else can try to steal their lunch.

I just can't think of another reason for this much focus on Apple, who isn't even responsible for the DRM requirement.

Well, if Apple can find labels that don't want DRM, and offer those tunes as non DRM'd tunes, I would buy an iTunes gift card and start buying whatever appealed to me from that list. If Apple is smart, they will go this route, and let the consumer send the big 4 a real message they can't refuse to hear.

just a thought...

Mediaman_12
Professional Poster

Joined: Jan 2001

0

02/07, 11:48am | report spam | close Reply |
Fair Play Licences

Do these country's want Apple to licence the FairPlay DRM to other companys? So Apple has to SUBSIDISE everybody else's crappy players when THERE customers get the tracks from the iTMS. The iTMS is run as a SERVICE for iPod customers, not an open store for everybody.

myramoki
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Joined: Jul 2004

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02/07, 12:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
free market, right....

Attacking Apple is like getting bitchy with a cop for pulling you over for speeding. The cop isn't responsible for the law (or the fact that you broke it), only for enforcing it. We have to change the law (the music companies) to get the results we want.

And while we are at it, how about we abolish the regional distribution system? What is this nonsense where in this day and age of globalization and digital delivery, can I not purchase some music from a band in Germany while I'm here in the US? All it does is hurt bands by limiting their appeal to local markets unless they are big enough to get distribution deals everywhere.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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02/07, 12:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: double standard

i wonder why nobody came out and attack MS or any other stores that only offer music for windows only. And why no WMA support on mac platform. At least itunes is available on mac/pc.

They're not complaining about the Windows Only problem. They're complaining about the Itunes/iPod only problem (amazing how few people seem to understand this stuff).

As for attacking MS and the "windows only" stores, the music at most of these stores play on most other players (you have choice from where to buy and what to play it on). If you get it from Apple, your choice is an iPod. If you want an iPod, your choice is iTMS.

Rincewind
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Joined: May 2000

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02/07, 12:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: double standard

There is no iTunes/iPod problem, there is only this fictitious "lock in" problem that these countries seem to have with the fact that iTunes Music Store tracks only play on the iPod (when considering music players).

But as Steve talked about yesterday, Apple estimates that all of 3% of the music on iPods is from the music store. Granted, even distribution is unlikely, but the more lopsided to you make the distribution, the more likely it is that a large segment of your customers are NOT locked in.

And even then, if you want to get yourself out of the lock-in, you can use the very very well known "burn to CD and reimport" trick. Maybe your every day mom-and-pop won't know it, but their kids probably do.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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02/07, 12:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: double standard

It's as simple as that. If you took money of the picture, they could care less about the DRM.

So, basically, you're saying no one cares about fair-use rights and all that, in Europe its all about who's feeding whom money. Hmm. So shouldn't Apple just pay someone off to get this to go away?

And, what if Apple licensed Fairplay? Then they'd still be in the market, dominant, and raking in royalty money. That would be one way for Apple to show these money-grubbing corrupt politicians!

I just can't think of another reason for this much focus on Apple, who isn't even responsible for the DRM requirement.

They aren't saying "Get rid of DRM!" They're saying "We want the files to work on other devices".

As for focusing on Apple. Could it be, since they're the biggest player in the market, that they're the ones you go after. You set a precdent by forcing the big guy's hand, and then use that to force all others. You think if the EU sued MS, and MS capitulated on something, that then Apple would feel the pressure to change as well? Of course not. But if Apple changes, then the others will to.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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02/07, 12:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: fair play licenses

Do these country's want Apple to licence the FairPlay DRM to other companys? So Apple has to SUBSIDISE everybody else's crappy players when THERE customers get the tracks from the iTMS.

I just love how everyone now appears to think that buying music should be a vertical market. I have player X, so I should have to buy music from X's store. Want to switch to player Y. No problem, just throw out all your old music and buy it again, this time from Store Y.

Yeah, that's a great concept.

And if the players are crappy, then who cares? Apple still makes money, they keep their reputation as the 'cool' player, and everyone's happy. h***, there's nothing that says they have to make iTunes work with the players.

The iTMS is run as a SERVICE for iPod customers, not an open store for everybody.

If that's the case, then Apple should restrict all people from buying from the store to just those who have an iPod. That would cut out all the problems then, wouldn't it.

Flying Meat
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02/07, 01:46pm | report spam | close Reply |
testudo

As has been pointed out many time, the iTunes store does not lock you into an iPod, and the iPod does not force one to buy from the iTunes store.

I agree that the iTunes store is not run solely as a service for iPod customers. You don't even need to have an iPod to purchase songs from there. It is in fact an open store for everyone.

danviento
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2005

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02/07, 01:53pm | report spam | close Reply |
there is no lock!

This is a temptest in a tea-cup. I know people have said this umpteen times before, but let's say it again for the slow ones that haven't caught it.

If you really don't want your songs in AAC format, they don't have to be. All you need is iTunes, 10� for a blank CD-R, and an exta 1-10 minutes after the song has downloaded. Just burn your songs to the disk (as you should be doing anyway to back up your purchase) and re-import them in iTunes from the disc as another format. It can be mp3, AIFF, MPEG, Apple Lossless, AAC or whatever. If you bought a whole Album, then the names and info are found in the online database with no hassel to you. If not, you may have to spend 5 minutes or so copying and pasting the track name, artist name, album name, etc.

If you want to use a different player, then it probably comes with its own app and all you have to do is have that App reference your iTunes library or simply move your music from the iTunes library to that application's library.

The only reason for people whining here is laziness. You would spend just as much time importing from a CD you buy as from importing songs from a disc burnt from iTunes.

There isn't now nor has there ever been a real lock on music you buy from iTMS. I'm certain Apple would post these instructions if they didn't have to try and appease the Labels with their effort of DRM. Of course, this purported issue wouldn't exist if the labels didn't RERQUIRE drm. As much attention as the possibility is getting, I suspect it will still be a while before we see any change. The Labels won't give up their one current "control: at stopping piracy, as ineffective as it is.

hardcat1970
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: May 2000

0

02/07, 02:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: double standard

re: double standard i wonder why nobody came out and attack MS or any other stores that only offer music for windows only. And why no WMA support on mac platform. At least itunes is available on mac/pc.

" They're not complaining about the Windows Only problem. They're complaining about the Itunes/iPod only problem (amazing how few people seem to understand this stuff).

As for attacking MS and the "windows only" stores, the music at most of these stores play on most other players (you have choice from where to buy and what to play it on). If you get it from Apple, your choice is an iPod. If you want an iPod, your choice is iTMS."

Of course they are not complaining about the windows only problem. That is why i question why nobody came out and attack these so called "Play for sure choices" or filed a silly lawsuit against them because these choices are restricting only to pc users. They forces a mac user like me to buy a pc and use windows as an operating system, in order to use these players. (not mentioning about other stuff besides music that requires a windows OS). And i don't really have a issue out of it because i have my alternate choice - keep using a mac computer and forget about the whole windows platform.

(amazing how few people seem to understand this stuff) that you don't have to use iPod and you don't have to buy songs from iTunes. Apple never stated that other devices are compatible with iTunes store from the beginning, so clearly there is no false advertising issue. I bet if apple keep iPod and iTunes to mac only and nobody will b**** about it. But once they took them to the windows land and grabbed a chunk of market and all of sudden, they have to bring them to other massive devices too. Since when a company develops the whole hardware and software have to support or other competitions !!!

It is so sad that these people are pretending to keep consumer's interest, which majority don't care about fairplay, and attacking apple, where they only create a good competition by integrating ipod and itunes so brilliantly. It is not apple's fault if other competitors can't knock ipod and itunes down.

russellb
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2001

0

02/07, 03:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: double standard

are you nuts !!!!!!

"They're complaining about the Itunes/iPod only problem (amazing how few people seem to understand this stuff). "

You are free to put any Itunes song you like onto a CD HELLO whats your problem ... dump them on a CD and then put them wherever you like !!!!!!

and it is different ... as microsoft is the dominant PC OS most people dont have a choice as due to their work or software they need ony runs on PC

With MP3 players you have a huge choice pick any one you want ... you have a choice in any music download service you want there are choices .. THE FREE MARKET simply LIKES Itunes and Ipod BETTER they dont want to use the competition.

it's completly different .

When I but a Ford car I dont complain that my ford car parts dont fit my Honda , when I go buy some kids toy I dont complain that all the other kids toys accessories dont fit my toy.

We are talking about a free market with plenty of music player choices PEOPLE JUST CHOOSE APPLE as it's better and they like it.

Why should Apple then be penalised and told you should be working and giving all your hard work to every other company because they can't get it right.

If you dont like Ipods and itunes you have plenty of other choices and you always have the choice of burning your songs to CD

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

02/07, 07:03pm | report spam | close Reply |
WMA DRM is windows only

This is a double standard for sure. MSFT dropped support for WMP for OS X and never had any intention of developing DRM support into that version.

MSFT wants to preserve their platform lock-in and yet Europe is completely oblivious to the fact that they are supporting that lock-in by going after Apple only.

They should pressure the labels to drop the DRM all together.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

02/07, 07:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
I listen mostly on my mac

A lot of people probably do not bother with and iPod and listen to their iTMS purchases on their computer or burn them to CD and listen to them in the car.

A lot of people have an iPod and do not buy any of their music online but rather buy CDs and rip them to MP3 or AAC format.

jreades
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 1999

0

02/08, 03:17am | report spam | close Reply |
WMA/FairPlay

[paraphrase]They should license FairPlay, that would show those corrupt politicians[paraphrase]

This is, in fact, exactly what the EU wants -- they want other companies to be able to sell songs/subscriptions/whatever that will works seamlessly with the iPod while *keeping* DRM.

To the best of my knowledge, the only DRM system that works on iPods is FairPlay (mp4a). But Apple, the dominant supplier of both hardware *and* music, has refused to license FairPlay to anyone else thus far and *most* people are not going to figure out that they can do things like burn a CD to get around copy-protection.

The EU countries are not trying to kill the iPod or knock it off the top-perch, they are trying to ensure that the largest music hardware provider is accessibly to competitiors. Whatever its shortcomings WMA is open in this one respect -- I can buy from different companies that offer different product sets (single songs, albums, unlimited subscriptions).

Since Apple makes most of its money selling the hardware and not the music, the 'lock-in' seems likely to be geared to driving the adoption of other services (would Apples movie store have as much attention if I didn't have the opportunity to buy films every time I visit the store within iTunes?).

I'm not saying that the EU is necessarily right, but their position is hardly as stupid as most of you seem to think. This is the same body that *has* been taking MS to court in a serious way over its failure to open up the APIs relevant to the Windows servers. Their attempt to get Apple to license FairPlay (from which they'd probably make more money than they do from the iTunes store itself) is entirely consistent with this policy.

Jeez,

jon

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Italy joins movement against iTunes, DRM

updated 10:00 am EST, Wed February 7, 2007

Italy joins music movement

They Just Don't Get It...

I don't get it:

double standard

double standard

All media

Wrong Target

Double standard

Fair Play Licences

free market, right....

Re: double standard

re: double standard

Re: double standard

Re: fair play licenses

testudo

there is no lock!

re: double standard

Re: double standard

WMA DRM is windows only

I listen mostly on my mac

WMA/FairPlay

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Italy joins movement against iTunes, DRM

updated 10:00 am EST, Wed February 7, 2007

Italy joins music movement

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They Just Don't Get It...

I don't get it:

double standard

double standard

All media

Wrong Target

Double standard

Fair Play Licences

free market, right....

Re: double standard

re: double standard

Re: double standard

Re: fair play licenses

testudo

there is no lock!

re: double standard

Re: double standard

WMA DRM is windows only

I listen mostly on my mac

WMA/FairPlay

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