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iPod, iTunes integration draws U.S. lawsuit

updated 11:35 am EST, Wed January 3, 2007

iPod, iTunes lawsuit

Apple is facing yet another lawsuit over its protected iTunes tracks, this time in the U.S. User Melanie Tucker in July filed a lawsuit and is seeking class-action status, alleging that Apple violates antitrust laws by disallowing music purchased from its iTunes Music Store from playing on any other digital player aside from its own iPod. The suit also charges that Apple failed to clarify to customers that music purchased from its itunes store is incompatible with music and devices offered by other companies, according to IDG News. The plaintiff is requesting that Apple be forbidden to continue support for its exclusive bond between iTunes and the iPod, and that the company pay damages to anyone who has purchased an iPod or music from the iTunes store after April 28th, 2003. Apple reportedly filed a motion with the court in November to dismiss the suit, but the motion was denied on December 20th.

by MacNN Staff

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phillymjs
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2000

0

01/03, 11:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Sue the RIAA, honey...

They're the ones who demanded DRM. Apple complied, developed a system that worked, and built up their dominant marketshare because users were satisfied with it. They are not required to throw the doors open to competitors so they can make a buck off Apple's hard work.

Nobody put a gun to your head and made you buy an iPod, or media from the iTunes Store. If you didn't research your purchases, that's not Apple's problem.

This lawsuit is BS and should be laughed out of court.

bobolicious
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

0

01/03, 11:55am | report spam | close Reply |
I just wish...

...I could even use my iPod as my main music library & backup to disc rather than needing a huge laptop hard drive just to duplicate, manage & burn mixed CDs from a lossless library - now I have to assume there is some sense of pressure from the record companies behind it, but the rub is that Apple benefits from the restrictions on usage too...

furrylogic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2005

0

01/03, 12:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
This is rediculous

One could similarly argue that region coding and copy protection on DVDs is similarly restricting usage of purchased movies.

Or, one could sue Microsoft to make all of their software run on OS X, Linux, Palm and BeOS...

Philip J. Fry
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005

0

01/03, 12:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
oh lord...

So what, the iPod+iTunes marketing didn't turn on the light?

jarod
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

0

01/03, 12:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
LOLOLLLLLL!

Too many stupid people in this world I tell ya. Get a job ya ho! You know, like in like EARN it....u know. $10 says this is a blond promised a trial by a lawyer getting paid by blowjobs ;-)

doc e
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2005

0

01/03, 12:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Idiots

Any song you buy from iTunes Music Store can be burned on a CD, then re-imported as an mp3 or a .wav file which you can use anywhere you like. This information is all over the internet. A quick google search would have educated not only the idiot filing this suit, but the idiot representing it and the idiots at court who accepted the case.

elroth
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2006

0

01/03, 12:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: i just wish...

Many more people use windows machines than macs, in case you didn't know that. You don't need anything from Apple (except an iPod and free iTunes) to manage your music.

jstephe
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2006

0

01/03, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Who's the Idiot?

You can call her an idiot if you like but, do a search on the WEB to see how many stupid law suits end up with the idiot getting a mit full of cash. If she gets class action status it doesn't cost her a thing.

I admit this has to stop, as it cost us all when companies have to raise prices to cover legal bills.

The only ones who truly get rich on these are the lawyers, and who councils the law makers? You guest it the lawyers, "can you say conflict of interest"?

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

01/03, 12:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bought books @audible.com

I bought audio books from audible.com and *gasp*, they work in iTunes and on my iPod. I also bought songs from eMusic in MP3 format and they also work fine with iTunes and my iPod.

Do Zune marketplace songs work anywhere else but on a Zune? Does Zune work with any other store than Zune Marketplace?

Do any of those MSFT stores work on anything other than a windows PC? No.

debohun
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 1999

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01/03, 01:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Be concerned...

Apple should be concerned about this suit; it is the classic bundling argument. It makes the same case that was made against Microsoft, and which would have broken up that company except for the Bush administration's undermining of the order's enforcement once they took office.

Now consider the likelihood that a Democratic administration will be in place by the time this case makes it to the bench, that that administration may have more respect for the law then the current one does, that the courts are now another decade more technically educated, and Apple's (or Microsoft's) bundling practices may no longer be secure. Apple should very carefully consider making a strategic move in opening Fairplay now, while they have the opportunity to do so on their own terms.

Further, I suspect that keeping that system closed, just like with the Macintosh, has hurt the company, not helped it. One can't help but wonder how many more millions (billions?) of songs they might have sold off an open system.

Foe Hammer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 2005

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01/03, 01:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bundled?

Since when is the iTMS bundled with an iPod? An iPod is perfectly and fully functional without the need to purchase a single track from the iTMS. The same music is available from other sources besides the iTMS as well (e.g., go buy the CD like you always have or go use one of the other music services that work with your Zune). Melanie Tucker - and her/her lawyer's lawsuit - are tucked.

dwoodruff
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Joined: Jul 2006

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01/03, 01:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
I'm curious

where were these ridiculous lawsuits when CD's were released, because they didn't tell me I had to use a CD player?

If you don't like iTunes, don't use it, it's very simple.

macnorway2000
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2006

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01/03, 01:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
I doubt...

...they would have sold all that many more by having a DRM-free tune. If you look at the allofmp3-case, they've filed for compensation for an alleged 11 million tracks sold. The iTMS has sold way beyond a billion tracks. DRM is a roadblock for those who know what it is and can circumvent it. The rest don't care. I've yet to be left in the dark by the iTMS DRM and can't really se the problem. You have all the options, go buy a CD if you really need to have clean tracks or better bitrate.

debohun
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 1999

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01/03, 01:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Fine points...

Its not that the iPod is bundled with iTunes, but rather that iTunes is bundled with the iPod. That "one-way" bundling does bring up an interesting and perhaps untesting point.

Its not a matter of having a DRM-free system, but of having an open DRM system. How many more songs might Apple have sold by now, if Fairplay had been licensed to other MP3 manufacturers? A great deal I imagine, and at the cost of very few lost iPods sales. The iPod is a clearly superior product (look at one next to the Zune, which looks like a cheap toy), Apple shouldn't be afraid to compete.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

01/03, 01:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
iTunes does not even ship

They no longer ship iTunes CDs with iPods. You are free to download any application you wish to manage songs. I believe Winamp works with the iPod.

hudson1
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Aug 2002

0

01/03, 02:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hard to show bundling

debohun, I believe you are mis-informed.

Firstly, Apple would not have sold substantially more songs via iTMS if Fairplay was licensed to others. They already have a high percentage of the legal download market.

Secondly, this is not a bundling arrangement. Apple in no way forces people to buy both a music download along with an iPod. If Apple said that you had to buy an iPod to be able purchase anything from the iTMS then you could make a case for bundling. What they do force you to do is use iTunes software but it's free so there's no forced purchase there, either.

Lastly, bundling is generally not illegal if the goods and/or services can be easily purchased elsewhere. Apple has neither a monopoly on portable music players or on downloadable music so it fails that test, too.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

01/03, 02:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
iTMS

where were these ridiculous lawsuits when CD's were released, because they didn't tell me I had to use a CD player?

What a stupid argument (yes, stupid!). She's not trying to play her digital music on her 8-track tape player, or her turntable. She's trying to play it on her digital music player. How happy would you be if you found out that you had to use Sony's CD player to play Sony's CDs, and it wouldn't play CDs from any other recording outfit?

iTunes does not even ship They no longer ship iTunes CDs with iPods. You are free to download any application you wish to manage songs. I believe Winamp works with the iPod.

This isn't a lawsuit about the iPod, but the iTMS. For all you "she's an idiot" folks, go find the large print that says "BTW, the content you might decide to purchase is only playable on one portable music player".

Secondly, this is not a bundling arrangement. Apple in no way forces people to buy both a music download along with an iPod. If Apple said that you had to buy an iPod to be able purchase anything from the iTMS then you could make a case for bundling. What they do force you to do is use iTunes software but it's free so there's no forced purchase there, either.

But if you want to use your music anywhere but at your computer, you're basically forced to use an iPod. That's the bundling.

Lastly, bundling is generally not illegal if the goods and/or services can be easily purchased elsewhere. Apple has neither a monopoly on portable music players or on downloadable music so it fails that test, too.

Hmmm, that seems odd, since everyone always is decrying any attempt at an iPod killer, shouting about the iPods marketshare, and promoting how the iTMS sells more c*** music in one day then all the good and bad music sold by all the other competitors combined! But now its "There's choices!".

Hey, there's 15000 different variations of Linux out there. How come they weren't considered competitors to MS in their anti-trust trial?

SubPop
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2006

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01/03, 03:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
FSF/linux troll.. sigh..

Its not a matter of having a DRM-free system, but of having an open DRM system. How many more songs might Apple have sold by now, if Fairplay had been licensed to other MP3 manufacturers? A great deal I imagine, and at the cost of very few lost iPods sales. The iPod is a clearly superior product (look at one next to the Zune, which looks like a cheap toy), Apple shouldn't be afraid to compete.

I'm not sure Apple's proprietary DRM shows lack of willingness to compete. Don't forget, Apple was one of the first companies out the gate with a legal online music purchasing model - their proprietary DRM is what allowed this (and was necessary, given the risk to both Apple and the music companies at the outset).. Apple succeeded while having to compete with "free" download services, and those with greater mindshare (Napster, anyone? On name recognition alone they should have beat Apple using MS's "open" DRM)

Open standards necessarily mean compromise - this is fundamentally against Apple's strategic positioning: they want to be the best in their industry, not always the most popular.. There aren't many examples where an open system is technically the best system, as most have to be "dumbed down" to be accepted by the masses..

As Microsoft why the Zune doesn't use PlaysForSure technology.

mrjohn
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2004

0

01/03, 03:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
unnecessary abuse...

I agree that this lawsuit may not be well thought out - but what is worse is postings sexist/misogynous comments about the woman who is suing. That's downright shameful.

ender
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 1999

0

01/03, 04:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
digital market?

The thing people keep assuming when they say Apple has a monopoly is that the music download market is a market in and of itself. I would argue that the market to be considered needs to include CDs, CD players. Apple most certainly does NOT have a monopoly in music sales. CDs still outsell downloads by a very wide margin. So, you are in no way forced to by music from the iTS to play on your iPod. Also, if you look at the portable music player market, you need to include portable CD players. Apple's marketshare there would then decline dramatically, so no monopoly there, either. And despite what one poster said, iTS can be played elsewhere then your computer or iPod. Burn a CD and and it's playable in any CD player (remember, it wasn't too many years ago that they talked about putting kiosks in record stores to let you do just that).

So this is in no way comparable to Microsoft's monopoly. MS had a true monopoly of an ENTIRE market, not just a market segement. There are many other ways to listen to your music, many ways to listen to your music portably, and many source to acquire your music. iPods will play music from other source (CDs, illegal download, digitized tapes, and a few non-DRM download sites), and iTunes downloads can be played on other than an iPod (computer, stereo via AirportExpress and iTV, any CD player in the world...and even any other portable digital player in the world if you are willing to burn a CD first).

No bundling, no monopoly, no illegal tactics...no lawsuit.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

01/03, 04:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:iTMS

Funny you should mention CD players. You can burn iTMS purchases to CD's and play them back with a CD Player. You can also take that CD and re-rip the songs in a lossless format such as FLAC and play them back on a portable player that supports FLAC.

Nobody is forcing anyone to use iTMS. You are free to use emusic.com or magnatune.com or buy CDs from the record store. In fact, I purchased a second generation iPod long before iTMS came to Canada.

ZinkDifferent
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

01/03, 04:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
one demonstration...

... of burning a CD from iTMS purchased music, and re-ripping it to work in ANY MP3 music player on the market, and the suit is thrown out.

Odd that she sues Apple over this alleged 'incompatibility', yet she never mentions Napster, Zune, PlaysForSure, and others which do NOT play on the iPod (or, even on each other).

Stupid b****!

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

01/03, 05:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: one demonstration

Odd that she sues Apple over this alleged 'incompatibility', yet she never mentions Napster, Zune, PlaysForSure, and others which do NOT play on the iPod (or, even on each other).

Stupid b****!

Um, you stupid b******, she's suing apple because she bought from Apple and the iTMS, not from Napster or the others. By your reasoning, if Ford made a car that exploded on people, you'd be upset they didn't sue Chevrolet.

typesetterX
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2006

0

01/03, 06:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
iTunes, iPods on Mac & PC

iPods can be initialized for for use with either Windoze or Macintosh. iTunes runs on Windoze or Macintosh. Airport Express runs on anything. Where's the beef?

appleusr
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2006

0

01/03, 06:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
I should sue walmart

So I look at all the services that allow you to down load music, being a Mac user only itunes works for encrypted music. Microsoft...no, walmart...no, real ...no anymore? I am sure there are many.

resuna
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

0

01/03, 07:27pm | report spam | close Reply |
Mix, Burn, Rip

Didn't Apple have an advertising campaign that basically told you how to get around their DRM? Change the order or "Rip, Mix, Burn" just the slightest...

debohun
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Feb 1999

0

01/03, 08:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Thanks guys...

Some of your replies highlight exactly the arguments that might be made in a traditional courtroom. What I'm trying to point out is that there are other, perhaps unexpected, ways of looking at this as a case. And, to elaborate on my point above, about the Republicans gutting the Microsoft ruling in their quest to be all friendly to big business, it is just as likely that a Democratic administration, riding a wave of anti-business populism, might in the future look at this case very much differently then expected. The courts are no longer independent, interested parties are no longer even pretending to play fair, and the widening gap of extremist positions in partisan politics will all affect the business environment. Any company that doesn't anticipate all possible eventuality given this climate is taking a risk.

rtbarry
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

01/05, 03:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
i'm suing...

...testudo. for wasting mah bandwidth.

but his mom keeps bringin him hotpockets, so he never leaves teh internets.

turtle777
Clinically Insane

Joined: Jun 2001

0

01/06, 01:58pm | report spam | close Reply |
Effing US judicial system

Only in America�

The public has to pay for all those ridiculous law suites. A few win millions, and the general public will pay for it in form of price increases. This has got to fu>king stop.

On the other hand, I'm ok with it. The US economy is more and more behind the eight ball because of this. Europe is laughing at the cost of doing business in the US. Makes other countries more competitive.

-t

Fast iBook
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2003

0

01/07, 02:50am | report spam | close Reply |
Um..

Um.. Apple does not need to let their product (bought through iTMS) work with the products of other companies. In fact, apple has embraced developing the iTunes+iPod experience for windows users. If anything microsoft should be sued for illegal tactics blocking mac users from their music services etc etc. Let us keep things in perspective, huh?

MacHeadChef
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2006

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01/07, 05:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
Stupid lady

She should be fined and put in Jail for wasting the court time. Everybody who waste the court time should be fined and put in Jail, then these stupid people will stop suing. People and companies are jealous of Apple and Steve Jobs, because Apple always come out with the best products and innovate. After a new product come out from Apple, soon another company will come out with a copy version of Apple products. Jan 9th 2007 MacWorld conference is here once again and Steve Jobs will have his annual Keynote, where he release his new products. How many companies will copy these new products? Should Nike allow Adidas, Reebok etc to use their Nike Air Technology? Should McDonald's be allow to sell the Whooper? Should Budweiser share their secrets with Coors beers? This is a business world and the best people in invent and innovate will win. People should stop whining.

smashedbanana
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Joined: Jun 2005

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01/08, 10:23am | report spam | close Reply |
Where is this coming from

You have to wonder who is really behind this. At $1 per song how much money can she really have invested in her library? $300, $400? What lawsuit is worth that settlement (on an individual perspective). And what portable media device does she want to switch too?

The Zune isn't even available in Canada yet.

Is there even a DRM standard? What will Apple have to do? Package music in every version of DRM or worse package it DRM-less?

Bah this whole thing smacks of M$ B$ Zune sensationalism...

resuna
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2005

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01/08, 01:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple can't use WMA DRM

Even if Apple wanted to open up iTunes to Microsoft's DRM (encrypted WMA) and let people use their iTunes music on their Rios or what have you, Microsoft would almost certainly want them to change Mac OS X to include the same kernel-level support for their DRM that Windows has before they'll license it. They've got too much face invested in Trusted Audio Path to let that slide.

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iPod, iTunes integration draws U.S. lawsuit

updated 11:35 am EST, Wed January 3, 2007

iPod, iTunes lawsuit

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Sue the RIAA, honey...

I just wish...

This is rediculous

oh lord...

LOLOLLLLLL!

Idiots

re: i just wish...

Who's the Idiot?

Bought books @audible.com

Be concerned...

Bundled?

I'm curious

I doubt...

Fine points...

iTunes does not even ship

Hard to show bundling

iTMS

FSF/linux troll.. sigh..

unnecessary abuse...

digital market?

re:iTMS

one demonstration...

Re: one demonstration

iTunes, iPods on Mac & PC

I should sue walmart

Mix, Burn, Rip

Thanks guys...

i'm suing...

Effing US judicial system

Um..

Stupid lady

Where is this coming from

Apple can't use WMA DRM

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