"Apple exploded into the digital music market in December of 2001 with the debut of its first-generation iPod"

Um, as far as I remember, it was me and a handful of other geek friends who were excited about the 1st gen iPod. Most regular folks and the mainstream media were dissing it and asking what Apple was thinking.

By the way, that 1st gen iPod is still going strong. My kid uses it all the time. Build me a cell phone that lasts that long and I'm there.

...has pretty short battery life (about 4 calls worth) & double & triple syncs with DeskTop Mac software, creating duplicates or wiping out recent updates with seemingly inconsistent results...

My experience with Apple & contact management hasn't been much better ie PowerTalk, ACT! & most recently iSync & address book. Moving from Powertalk>Act>Palm>Address Book was like an heroic odyssey that still isn't right...

It would be really, really, really appreciated in my world if Apple could 'nail' contact management - certainly better than iTunes sync, with so many ways to lose your music - losing, corrupting & managing contact info would seem an historic mac weakness certainly as compared to the many (I have heard excellent) pc solutions available...

The "Palm Guy" needs to brush up on his history: Apple had already paved the way in the handheld PDA market- long before Palm became a household word- with the Newton. The Newton was the first to introduce handwriting recognition (however troublesome), as well as a plethera of accessories for the little wonder. Even though the Newton had its drawbacks and was eventually cancelled, I know several Newton owners who still use their Newtons- and those little marvels are still alive and kicking today.

The Palm innovators took the Newton, refined many of the successful concepts and learned from its failures, and introduced the first Palm. Their product success was lagely based on Apple's ideas- they didn't come up with the ideas themselves, they just took Apple's hard work and innovation, made some good improvements and then marketed it better. (sounds familiar, eh?)

But watch out, Ed Colligan- Apple is about to pull a page right outta Microsoft's playbook, by building upon all your R&D and learning from your mistakes, and then producing a superior product. Companies like Palm can't afford to look at Apple as a "bit player" any longer (want proof? Here's one word: "iPod").

... no bigger than my current brick, plenty of battery life and power for a clear connect, room for a couple of days worth of music and sync at least as well as my SE t-637(which does very well) and a few nicely placed extras and I'm all over one. I'm very optimistic.

Ed's in for a surprise if he believes his own B.S.

Always on the mark! It really would never, ever make sense for Apple to introduce anything after the holiday shopping season. That's why they haven't had any major product announcements at MWSF for decades now.

Oh, wait.

Hey Ed, I had a Treo 600 and now a 650. IF Apple debuts a phone/music player/photo viewer/contact manager my Treo is going on Ebay. Does that tell you anything? There is one caveat though, it would have to be more reliable a service than .Mac which is not great.

I think the word disinterested is used in the wrong context here. The word really should be uninterested. The two words have very different meanings; for instance, a judge really should be disinterested in the case he/she is reviewing, but he/she should DEFINITELY not be uninterested.

If there is an iPhone, there is no way to tell if it's gonna be successful. From this guys perspective, he's right, and I'd agree with him if say M$ was going to make a Zune Phone. Palm, M$, and the like never really seem to re-think a product, instead they all look and see what works, then they try to make it do some other thing, but in the only make it a complicated bulky box. Apple has demonstrated time and again that by rethinking a product (innovation), such as "what's wrong with attempts so far, what do people want, who's gonna buy an Apple phone and why." It's really simple, but they all try to make it the be all and do all without really thinking it through. I think this guy at Palm really believes they've throughly explored this market, from a PDA mindset. One other thing, how many people use a PDA, how many an iPod ;)

Why are some people just so dense? Anyone who simply laughs off Apple's potential to innovate in a digital device market is ignorant beyond redemption. He may have been saying that just to steer people away from an Apple product that could EASILY be a revolution in the digital wireless phone market. But he shouldn't have laughed. Any man who is a betting man wouldn't bet against Apple in this case.

Maybe he could have said "Apple? We haven't supported Apple in a long time. We leave it to a third party developer to integrate our integrated solution." Palm is so sadly out of touch with what is possible in the hand held market. I'm only holding onto my stock hoping that someone will buy them.

Palm had plenty of market opportunity to get it right. I hope Apple gets it right, and mops the floor with them.

that since Palm has tried, it can't be done by someone else better.

I just bought a Palm T|X, and while I tend to like their products in spite of their 1996-era design, I'd love to see Apple torpedo them. One thing though, I don't believe we have any reason to believe that the iPhone will be a SmartPhone, with a keyboard and PDA features and all, do we? Seems like Phone + iPod nano featurs is what we can expect. Which I would not go in for at all, since I want a Treo Killer...

I am about to restart and repair permission on my Powerbook in an attempt to delete the stupid Palm software, which somehow installs itself with resources that think they are "in use" (hence, I can never delete the files -- done on purpose by Palm?).

Always on the mark! It really would never, ever make sense for Apple to introduce anything after the holiday shopping season. That's why they haven't had any major product announcements at MWSF for decades now.

Oh, wait.

Umm, I think that was the point. Leave it to apple to just completely ignore, year after year, the two biggest shopping seasons of the year (Christmas and the school year). When does Apple make big announcements? January! As a stockholder, wouldn't you think it would boost more sales to actually try to lure people to buy their products? h***, look at the PC market. All the big vendors got pissed at MS for pushing Vista past the Christmas season, as its going to kill their sales (I know, I know, no one intelligent wants Vista, but pretend all the PC users are low IQ idiots, and then they would want it. Of course, if you believe that, you also believe that Apple-lovers will go out and just buy up all these new iPods/iPhones in January, even if they all got new ones for xmas or something).

"and then they would want it. Of course, if you believe that, you also believe that Apple-lovers will go out and just buy up all these new iPods/iPhones in January, even if they all got new ones for xmas or something)."

Yeah, basically that's what happens.

They're such losers. At least they admit this. Of course Palm can't get it right! They never have. I still shiver when I think about my (late 90s) Palm IIIx or so experience. What an utter POS that was. They might have gotten better since then but still far from perfect. That's where Apple migh(yes, "might", not "will") step in. I wish Palm had died back then. Along with Realnetworks and other incapable companies obviously run by complete idiots. But then again, who'd want to live in a WinCE only world? Not me, for sure!

I've got zero interest in a regular cell phone with a welded-on iPod nano. Isn't that pretty much what Motorola tried and failed with? I don't have any interest in a hammer that has a screwdriver on the other end either, and for similar reasons.

When Apple came out with the first iPod there were already a boatload of competitors in the mp3 player market. Apple was the only one that saw the need for a really spiffy high-end mp3 player with large capacity and long battery life.

I see a parallel in the smart phone space (with keyboard please). The current big players have names like Treo and Blackberry. There really isn't anyone in Apple's league in terms of engineering and product design capabilities. That's the way it was with mp3 players when iPod happened on the scene.

There is a problem with the current telephone offerings that Apple might see as an opportunity (as they did with iTunes). First of all you have the Cell Phone service providers who like big monthly subscription style payments, long term contracts, and high priced per minute usage charges. At the same time you have the emergence of Internet phones, WiFi phones, and much much much much more attractive and flexible pricing. Services like Skype and Jajah lack the 'anywhere accessibility' of regular cell phones but they do present a compelling set of economics. iChat could easily be extended to become a Skype competitor. Who better than Apple to simplify the rate/pricing picture and to integrate internet phones, cell phones, and computers using a smart phone device as the portal?

I use my Treo 650 for database programs, medical programs, videos, music, games as well as an organizer.

If they create a smart phone what OS is it going to use? What programs are going to be available? I don't want to have to carry a phone and a PDA so an Apple phone would have to run all my programs.

I'm sure I'm in the minority but we'll see what Apple comes up with.

Seems to me that big-ticket items like new Apple towers and laptops are not typical holiday purchases. In fact this approach is validated by Apple's decision to push iPod nano and shuffle as holiday purchases, these are affordable items which are more likely to be given as presents rather than a full-on video iPod. If you buy a tower it's likely not a present, it's something you buy yourself for work and it makes more sense to purchase in the new year.

I think we actually need not one, but several decent phones that Apple could provide.

First we need a super simple phone. My parents are in their 70's and are technophobes. They never use the address book etc. on their phone. We need an iPod simple phone that is tiny, indestructible, incredibly clear sounding without all the ringtones/games and other junk.

Next would be an iPod nano phone. The same as the phone above, but with 4-8 GB storage for music.

Last, an iPod shuffle size phone. No display, the size of a quarter. You call with voice dialing.

Any other ideas?

I love the really smart CEO's and their egos! "We have not figured it out so neither can they" This is the type of thinking that allows small, unkown bit players to dominate a market. I have been in market research for years and see smug CEO's telling me my market research is wrong only to watch them eat their own words. Go show them Apple!

I'm not sure Apple is going to care to be a full-fledged provider of phones and service. The market they'd be after would likely not include folks like our parents (mine are just a bit younger than yours) who just need a simple phone. Will your folks use the music part? If not, then my guess is Apple isn't going to go after them intially.

I would imagine they would go the smartphone/music player route. As a Palm phone user, although I would guess that I'm the target user, I'm not sure I'd switch. I use a Samsung flip Palm phone, that has been discontinued. If I wanted a brick, I would have gone for the Treo already, but I realize that I'm part of a tiny minority, and that most people don't mind or even like the Treo form factor.

If in fact they follow the iPod model, that would suggest that only one flavor of phone will emerge intially, and greater diversification will follow.

Of course, Stevie ain't likely to call me with advance word on this, so I'll have to wait to see if my speculations are anywhere near the target.

even if the new iPhone has a few issues. Whats not to like about this Gen 1 product ? Give them time to resolve the finer points, please. Everybody knows Palm software totally bites, and their OS is particularily bad. Cant wait to ditch my T650 and I wont even have to switch carriers. My Treo's 2.5mm headphone jack has been broken for 14 months, that size is just too fragile. Glad they updated the iPhone seeing past this vulnerability, to 3.5mm. Also, the 3.5" screen is a vast improvement !!

Jajah in AU certainly does not make economical sense. Their raters are expensive compared to other VOIP providers. Jajah costs 0.02c USD a min for landine calls and around 0.18c USD per min.

I can currently get calls for AUD 0.01c a min or a flat 0.08c to any landline in au. Mobiles I can get for 0.14c a min.

So for savvy VOIP users who have their VOIP phones setup it is prob not attractive. Where they might win out is for non tech savvy users who dont need to set anything up ... just have access to a web page