Greenpeace *may* be correct in their attempts on Apple. However, my experience with Greenpeace leaves me questioning their credibility. So their activity just doesn't mean much to me.

I wonder what you'll think of those "whackjobs" when you no longer have clean air to breathe, or water to drink (or your country is invading others to annex their water)?

Blowhard.

Greenpeace is entirely right. If Apple has the gall to invoke images of some of the most courageous and important leaders of social movements throughout history, they'd better walk to walk. ALL Mac users should be asking Apple why their environmental polcies are so lax.

Daniel Eran wrote a series of articles exposing some apparently serious issues with Greenpeace and this whole thing with Apple. You should check out roughlydrafted.com if you're interested.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/ABC6DFDA-9DE9-4EA8-A269-65EAAB628676.html

Greenpeace...just please go away. Thank you.

Thanks for that - very interesting reading on all counts.

Environmental concerns in technology are almost totally overlooked yet very important. I hate to see the first much-publicized campaign end up being backed by shoddy facts and dough-heads. It's a shame, as it lends credence to the other dough-heads like our friends here partying on the Titanic, booing the "whackos" and 'naysayers.'

The Daniel Eran article was interesting, but contained few legitimate criticisms, and seems to be more geared toward patting himself on the back, with endless references and links to his own articles, and few references to any other sources.

To start, he claims "In general, the report didn't present any useful information for consumers, but rather distilled poorly performed analysis into a ranking that was essentially meaningless. Nokia is better than Lenovo? Will potential ThinkPad buyers improve the environment by buying a cell phone instead?"

Well, not exactly ... seeing as how Lenovo may be the single worst offender among the electronics companies, "green" customers may lean away from Thinkpads and go with Dells.

I also found it ironic that he started poking fun at typos in the letter he got from Greenpeace, and didn't even realize one of the "errors" he noted was not in fact an error, but an alternate spelling.

Mr. Eran likes to take credit for having Greenpeace change their tune and come up with a positive review of an Apple product. Maybe Greenpeace can play by the same rules and take credit for getting Apple to put out greener products!

Apple puts out a product we all enjoy, but that's no reason to follow them blindly and to skewer anyone who criticizes them.

While I'm sure that all computer manufacturers have environmental issues, it seems a trade show is not the appropriate venue for their protest.

If they feel Apple is not green enough, go to Apple directly. If they belive the laws aren't strict enough, go to the lawmakers. But don't try to make event attendees the target of your idealistic crusade.

Sadly, they probably drove air-polluting cars to the event, had banners and signage made from plastics and flyers made from trees....

Yes, I care about the environment and global warming. However, I'm sorry, but Green Fleece is the last organization that I would listen to when It comes to the environment. It is extremist organizations like this that discredit things that should be taken seriously by moving them into the domain of extremism.

Apple Computer is far from the environmental bad boy that Green Fleece would like us all to believe. That being said, there is room for improvement at Apple as well as other companies.

Apple's as clean if not cleaner than most PC manufacturers who still sell CRT's and use AA non-rechargable batteries in there MP3 players. Talking about dirty that's a lot of batteries filling toxic waste dumps. While the iPod battery can last longer than 5 years without being replaced.

I don't trust Greenpeace's analysis here. Apple's laptops and PCs tend to get re-USED a lot more than generic Windows boxes - and re-use keeps them out of the waste stream: it's a much better scenario than simply reducing the waste by recycling. The environmental costs of a Mac averaged over its total lifespan are significantly reduced by this.

My first OS X box was a Powermac 7600, with a Sonnet upgrade card, and when I got an old G3 I kept the 7600 as a music player... and I only upgraded from the G3 when the Mac mini came out. Apple would do more to reduce the total environmental cost of their new machines by making them more upgradable than by cutting the toxics by 25% or whatever it would take to beat Dell.

Well, not exactly ... seeing as how Lenovo may be the single worst offender among the electronics companies, "green" customers may lean away from Thinkpads and go with Dells.

That would be a mistake, since Thinkpads are one of the most re-USE-friendly laptops. I spent 20 years as a system administrator and at various times we've had Compaq, HP, DEC, Dell, and IBM/Lenovo systems. The Thinkpads in particular have usually had consistent storage bay and component interfaces throughout their product lines, and maintained them for multiple generations, which is a marked contrast to the other manufacturers. Their products, particularly the T-series, have been extremely rugged and easy to work on when they DO break, and their keyboards are a joy to type on compared to eny other laptop manufacturer... most definitely including Apple. All of this makes them naturally longer-lasting than other lines.

I had several users refuse to have their Thinkpads upgraded on schedule if they couldn't get a Thinkpad in exchange... and for engineers to stick to a slower machine when a faster one doesn't cost them anything is really quite remarkable.

I see these jerks today, they where both oustide the Hall where the expo was taking place, adn outside the nearby London underground/train Station.

In both cases they where jumping on people as they went past.

As it appears they were "kicked out" before the show actually started, hard to believe they were violating any "policies" of the fair organizers. I think this is 100% Apple's doing; we've known for a long time that if anyone says anything critical on their message boards, they get deleted. We know they will send the full weight of their high priced legal team on top of 19 year old students. In an awful lot of ways, they are as much a bully as the evil empire. This is only another example of the same old same old.

According the the show organizers, green p had violated more than one term of their exhibitor contract. In addition, they generated several complaints from other vendors. Including the alleged removal of promotional materials in another vendors booth, which they replaced with theirs? Sounds to me, like they behaved like a bunch of 19-year old students.