1/2 the posters above don't get it.

1) Macnn: They didn't "DEBUT" anything. It's a preview. Get a dictionary. 2) EyeTV vs. iTV. Jobs said it was a code-name. This will NOT be released on the market as the 'iTV" without some sort of deal with el gato. 3) Studios are NOT going to agree to $15/month rental "plans" Neither is Apple. Take a look at what movie tickets cost, take a look at what DVD's cost. I wouldn't mind the pricing being less, but I think it's reasonable.

The whole point of this preview was to force the studio's hand... eldarkus nailed it in that regard. Make the studios see that "Apple, creator of the iPod" is pushing this into the living room. I bet it will cause some more studios to get on board.... Amazon isn't downloading to your TV.... this is moving away from the computer and into the living room, as far as the movie executives are concerned.

1/2 the posters above don't get it.

1) Macnn: They didn't "DEBUT" anything. It's a preview. Get a dictionary.

From Merriam's Websters:

debut: a first appearance

3) Studios are NOT going to agree to $15/month rental "plans" Neither is Apple. Take a look at what movie tickets cost, take a look at what DVD's cost. I wouldn't mind the pricing being less, but I think it's reasonable.

Umm, Netflix has this. Subscription services for music have this (have you looked at the price of a CD???). And the price is only reasonable if (a) you have no care how good the picture is, and (b) you have lots of disposable income.

Most people don't BUY movies, they rent them, watch them once, then return. This is why Blockbusters exist everywhere. To basically only offer a purchase plan is just plain stupid.

Then again, if you can get 5 episodes of a TV show for the same price as a movie, why'd spend the money on the movie. Generally most movies suck as bad as TV, anyway.

The whole point of this preview was to force the studio's hand... eldarkus nailed it in that regard. Make the studios see that "Apple, creator of the iPod" is pushing this into the living room. I bet it will cause some more studios to get on board.... Amazon isn't downloading to your TV.... this is moving away from the computer and into the living room, as far as the movie executives are concerned.

Movie executives do NOT want you watching movies in your living room. They want you in the theaters. After that, they could give a flying leap if its on the computer or the TV, so long as you buy it. They also are too smart to get bullied into just joining Apple's party because Disney (steve's other job) is on board. They know the power Apple has over the RIAA, and they're going to make sure they start off with the upper hand, or not at all (and at these prices, people are NOT going to be just buying stuff left and right - well, except for the "I'll buy anything Apple's selling!" crowd).

Oh, and Apple's isn't downloading to your TV. Their downloading to your computer, then hoping you spend another $300 (yeah, right!) on another box to add to your media center so you can get your stuff from your computer to your TV. Most people will just go spend the $4 to rent the movie and be done with it.

Don't people actually read the articles and reflect on them?

iTV is a TEMPORARY name, so these is no conflict with eyeTV,etc.

This is a NETWORKING device. Any DVR, hard drive, disc burner will be in your computer, not this device. It is to facilitate watching downloaded digital files on your TV.

And logic would suggest that rentals will be forthcoming, as the market demands it and Amazon is already offering it.

Most televisions in use today have neither an HDMI nor a Component input. Most TVs still have composite video inputs and some have SVideo inputs. How exactly do they expect to sell many of these things if they won't work with the majority of the sets in homes? They need to add an SVideo port to this thing and ship a svideo->composite adapter (very cheap) with it, then they cover 95% of existing sets (ignoring the tiny percentage that only has RF input).

Back in 1976, Apple had a vision. Rather than time sharing a computer terminal in order to calculate something, everyone would have a computer sitting on their desk, in their home, or even in their pocket. Their vision came true, but was mostly co-opted / stolen by Microsoft and the white box PC makers.

Apple has a vision now. Why would anyone need to "tune into" channels on a TV, where the content isn't on demand? TiVo responded to this in the only way available - let you create a season pass (or a 1 time recording) to deal with the problem... making it a kind of pseudo on-demand experience. As everyone knows, this has been a huge success.

But there is still a problem -- you cannot just get your TV shows "a la carte" -- you have to subscribe to huge chunks of TV stations for what are sometimes big $$. What if you only wanted to watch 2 TV shows a week? That will still cost something like $80, once you order all of the "packages" required to get them.

Apple is going to fix this. You'll be able to get a season pass for a specific TV show - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - for instance, and not have to pay $50 for the cable packages required to get it onto your TiVo.

This is the "next generation" -- on demand, without the pocket drain that cable companies can demand.

Why would anyone d/load movie for 15-20 bucks when Wal-Marts gonna sell it for $10 in a few months? Blockbuster online has unlimited rentals for 18.00 a month plus 4 free instore rentals. I can't see this working for Apple.

Maybe there is only HDMI and Component because it is geared towards HD. (Not saying it is good for marketing, but hey.) What if the movies you download from the iTS are in full HD? Now we have an awesome product. Just avoid the HD-DVD/BluRay battle all together!

Sort of agree with that... if Apple sells this is as a movie downloading service, then it's hard to see raging success. Poorer resolution + no burning + computer networking dependency + $3-$5 savings + $300 device? No thanks. But I'd say Apple is a few TV shows and live events away from being a serious competitor to cable and satellite services.

The main problems I see here are: The Component & HDMI only connections -- I hope they fix that before launch, but the iPod + the AV cables provide an alternative to this anyway -- and the need for users to back up their TV/movie purchases, without being able to burn playable discs.

Actually, the even bigger problem I see is that a lot of users probably won't even know to back up their purchases. This isn't as big a deal with the iPod, because the iPod itself acts as a backup of the music library. It's not clear if this streaming device has any storage. Not backing up is the user's fault of course, nevertheless it is a nuisance activity and detracts from the appeal of using something like this.

It would have been great if they let us pay a premium for an HD-version. Could have been a good alternative to HDDVD or bluray.

for that price, they could have made it come w/ S-video, DVD player, or even inputs for cablebox. Why? I agree w/ the aple philosohpy that tv and CD interface is c***. They could fix that w/ a better media hub w/ simple and pretty front row/apple-style interface.

Back in 1976, Apple had a vision. Rather than time sharing a computer terminal in order to calculate something, everyone would have a computer sitting on their desk, in their home, or even in their pocket. Their vision came true, but was mostly co-opted / stolen by Microsoft and the white box PC makers.

Right! That was "Apple's" vision! No one else thought of this. Certainly none of those people in those early computer clubs, or the ones buying those CP/M machines.

Apple has a vision now. Why would anyone need to "tune into" channels on a TV, where the content isn't on demand? ...But there is still a problem -- you cannot just get your TV shows "a la carte" -- you have to subscribe to huge chunks of TV stations for what are sometimes big $$. What if you only wanted to watch 2 TV shows a week? That will still cost something like $80, once you order all of the "packages" required to get them.

$80? What cable are you paying for? And once you get past a half dozen shows, you're then wasting more money getting your shows ala carte then buying the whole thing bulk (of course, you can get all that live content, dissected into little bits and just a day or two late).

Apple is going to fix this. You'll be able to get a season pass for a specific TV show - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - for instance, and not have to pay $50 for the cable packages required to get it onto your TiVo.

Wait, you said it cost $80! Which is it?

BTW, keep in mind that your cable-free service is going to cost you the price of one computer and monitor ($1200), one iTV ($300), broadband internet ($50 a month, there's those cable companies again!), as well as the cost of the content.

This is actually a more brilliant move than it might seem at first.

$300 isn't a lot compared to the alternative -- a media center PC for $1000. And it gets around the fundamental flaw of the media center PC, which is that people don't want to sit around their living room downloading media, ripping CDs, organizing their collections, etc. They want to sit down, relax, and be entertained. This way, the downloading, organizing, etc. happens on the main computer (which is where it generally happens anyway), and all that content can be accessed from the living room. No duplication of effort, no copying files, no sitting on the sofa squinting into the TV and trying to set everything up from a wireless keyboard -- just sweet sweet streaming.

The argument about whether anyone's going to pay $9.99 to download a movie is even LESS relevant than the argument 4 years ago about whether anyone is going to pay $9.99 to download an album. People will use this to access their entire music library from their living room (not just what happens to fit on an iPod). To play their home movies. And to do with their DVD collection what iTunes let them do with their music collection -- access anything they have from the touch of a button.

for a 1st generation device, apple seems to have done enough right that this device will be a success. it is a mac mini without the computer. a frontrow kiosk with wireless connectivity. many of my friends have been waiting for something almost exactly like this.

$300 seems a bit steep for a wireless router with a/v capabilities. still, for apple that could add up to a ton of revenue. as they explore new ways to make money from hardware offerings, this is yet another way to profit outside of the pc market.

i must agree with jamiec: who wants a pc that's tethered to your home entertainment system? in my opinion, apple has covered the bases with the iTV and the new 24" cinematic imac. this should satisfy both that group that is willing to watch movies on their widescreen PC and those who want it on their 70" television.

a number of things have been left unsaid that make me curious. consider rendevous. let's say my buddy comes over the house with his notebook that has itunes installed. won't i be able to play all his media files through my system? what an interesting way to share media that could be. playing all his vidoes and music wirelessly through my big screen tv using frontrow.

another is the idea of burning. i'm guessing that apple is still toiling away trying to get permission to burn dvds from the studios. of course, the burning would happen on the mac (or pc) and not the itv. that's a forgone conclusion at this point. it's not a criticism but something i do hope they work out before release.

and finally ... will there ever be a real ipod video? i suppose i was anticipating something a bit more of a departure from the current lineup.

I don't want to leave my Mac on (I have a MacBook Pro) to act as a server. Or, if I have to take it on business, my family can't watch movies now.

I think a suped up Mac Mini is a more viable option. It can play / burn DVDs and I can use EL Gato's DVR with it. Most digital TVs can accept DVI-D (or use a convertor cable). So, I don't really see the benefit of a scaled down dumb streaming box.

Uhm, did I see that the movies are to be available at 640x480?

Do they even make an HDMI TV in that ratio?

Everyone who would spend $300 for a TV add-on has already bought a new HD TV in the last few years. This is not a device that makes sense for someone with a 5 year old TV.

I'm skeptical about this because of the price of the box but more importantly because of the slow download speeds. The iTMS is an instant gratification machine--spend a buck get a song. Sitting around for an hour to download a movie isn't very appealling. As others have pointed out, I can go rent a movie quicker than that (but not through NetFlick; that takes a bit longer than an hour :-)

Hmm, I wonder what else you'll be able to do on your TV eventually. With your Mac in the other room as a server and this thing in the living room, who couldn't this evolve into essentially a network computer--for those who want it without having hassle of constantly syncronizing two Mac.

And to the guy who doesn't leave his MacBook on all the time: why not? The brick in the wall is consuming the same power whether your MacBook is on anyway, so what are you saving by shutting down?

This is actually a more brilliant move than it might seem at first.

$300 isn't a lot compared to the alternative -- a media center PC for $1000. And it gets around the fundamental flaw of the media center PC, which is that people don't want to sit around their living room downloading media, ripping CDs, organizing their collections, etc. They want to sit down, relax, and be entertained.

Um, you seem to be missing the point somewhere. Its not a $300 device. Its a $1300 device (you need a second computer for this device to even work).

And a lot of people don't want to sit down in their office, being bored organizing their music and movies on their computer when they could be relaxing in a nice recliner doing this...

not sure on the aspect ratio. whenever i have an a/v question, i always go to avsforum. folks there are very knowledgeable. here's a thread on itv: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=722666

beyond itv, they're great for all kinds of a/v related topics.

iTV looks interesting but I just don't need it - especially for $300. I already have a wired house network (WAY cheaper to install than $300), an HDTV with DVI, and a 5.1 sound system. I've been patiently waiting for the MacMini that will become just another component in this setup. I want that MM to handle HD display to my big screen and has a DVD player that will upconvert my SD DVDs and play HD DVDs.

I will NOT pay $15-20 for 640X480 content that takes hours to download and a PIA DRM. If I'm going to buy a movie in the first place it will be something I can copy and/or convert without hassel to the codec of my choice.

Unless I'm missing something here the proposed iTV unit has ZERO appeal for me.

I pretty much predicted this years ago as a logical outcome of the Mac.

http://forums.macnn.com/58/imac-emac-and-mac-mini/219240/dealbreaker-for-headless-imac/#post2094697

Nice to see they listen. But isn't that the reason we love Apple?

In Pittsburgh, we have this new broadband called FIOS that is offered by Verizon that is currently at 30Mbps, but promises much faster speeds. It is Fiber Optic to the home.

Even Comcast is offering its lowest package at 8Mbps.

On demand downloads is the future. Broadcast television will go the way of AM radio. Who would watch broadcast if they could download and watch what they want when they want. Imagine, no more INFORMERCIALS. WOOOOO HOOOOOO.

Of course, we've heard of various Bittorrent technologies to be used for the vid download. Whatever, they will figure it out, no doubt. And Apple will be as familiar as those little Scientific Atlanta cable boxes we used to use.

From my experience and the obvious economics, video rental is a dying business...stores like Hollywood Video, Blockbuster, etc are dying all over the country. Rental via DirectTV, cable, Netflix, and eventually download is the wave of the future. I am not sure Apple will be able to capitalize on this business the way they did in the music industry. Too many problems....and Apple has given consumers no real reason to buy or rent movies...the iPod as a mive-viewing device doesn't cut it.

Your "vision" for iTV back then was an Apple branded TV tuner that included a "free" Mac. The new product doesn't include a tuner OR a Mac. Kinda differ'nt. But you guessed the code name. That's pretty impressive. Although predicting "iPod" 5 years ago would have been more impressive.

It was pretty much the evolutionary path of the iPod. Seems like we can put an "i" in front of anything........

Yea, I hear ya. It's more like a Airport Express for TV....... Still, just cramming a tuner, a "free mac" and a "Tivo-esque" Digital TV recorder would make it the ultimate!

I always tip my hat to those, who in their zeal, actually create Photoshop mock-ups of their ideas.

Uh, Malax, if you'd watched the event, you'd have heard Steve say that you can start watching a downloading movie within a minute of starting the download. In other words, you're watrching it as it downloads - it's really streaming the movie to you.

So you don't have to wait an hour (or 1/2 hr at 5 mbps) to start... MUCH more on-demand kinda thing, huh?

Watching the movie as it downloads sounds great, IF your connection is fast enough to keep up. My crappy SBC DSL can't even keep up with the video clips on CNN.com. This in the heart o'silicon valley, no less!

is the way to go. The iTV doesn't do anything to make me change my current setup.

iTV does do something right, it keeps it simple. Of course there will always be those who are able to convert their dvd's and stream them through their network to their tv but as far as keeping it simple for the normal home theater viewer, the iTV does just that.

However, I believe it just as simple, not to mention less expesive and much more capable to just stay with Tivo and a blockbuster or netflix subscription. I've always felt that Tivo was kind of the "Apple" of the living room. They have almost as passionate a fan base as Apple as well. I just Tivo integrated as well with Apple as it does Windows.

I had hoped that the reason Tivo didn't offer sofware parity with Apple was that Apple was either going to buy Tivo or they knew Apple was coming out with there own dvr. I just knew though that Apples product was going to be an iTunes interface for the TV which is not even nearly as functional.

I was hoping for a little more. Say what you want about MS but their Media Center offers more of what I think a lot of people were hoping for. An Apple Tivo or media center would have been great.

Go to to find out the Elgato Hybrid TV will provide a critical link with the iTV concept of cable programming. this device does it all!