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Apple's brand hurts IT, edu markets

updated 06:30 pm EDT, Fri September 1, 2006

Apple brand hurts IT, Edu

Apple's powerful brand--which has helped the company boost its profits and marketshare--is hurting the company when it comes to enterprise and education markets. A new column says that while Apple currently putting significant effort into gaining major penetration of the education market in the UK, it is facing major hurdles: "Unfortunately, Apple is still perceived from its brand as 'specialist IT' and 'consumerist.' with its computers being favored by the media industry, and its impressive recent fortunes being delivered on the back of iPods and iTunes. This does not just apply in the education market but also in mainstream business, where I have often been told by Butler Group subscribers that they would not consider the 1u rack-mounted Xserve as a replacement for their Dell or IBM server, because Apple 'are best at iPods and design' and 'are not a real computing company.'"

by MacNN Staff

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l008com
Addicted to MacNN

Joined: Jan 2000

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09/01, 06:39pm | report spam | close Reply |
so

So windows only IT guys are completely ignorant about macs and are making statements that make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Nothing new there.

jarod
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Joined: Apr 2005

0

09/01, 06:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
LOL

That has got to be the worlds most IGNORANT column. If you consider companies employing s*** for brains pc idiots a reference, then you clearly belong OUTSIDE the realm of real technology. This guy is a joke along with his entire column.

Hillbilly Geek
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Joined: Aug 2006

0

09/01, 07:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
this kind of prejudice...

is something we meet every day. Macs aren't "real computers"... they don't have built in job security for the IT dept. Feh. Maybe we should call in the ACLU? Oy! I'm being oppressed!

Steve Wilkinson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2001

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09/01, 08:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
no big surprise

Most IT folks I have met don't really know much outside their discipline (ie: Windows), and often don't know much about Macs. I've heard them say the most stupid things at times, and this is no exception.

But, you have to remember that this is self-serving in many ways. First, most IT folks don't really want to make changes... so, even if Macs are better, it's a risk (both politically and practically). There might be a big upside, but you usually don't lose your job for keeping a level status in most big corps.

Second, making 'improvements' that might reduce staff isn't really in the interest of IT outside of very upper management. Like it or not... many livelihoods depend on Windows.

But, in defense of IT, there have been some actual practical reasons at least inside the server room. Macs, and even xServes have lacked some features that most IT people look for. Things like redundant power supplies, lights out type management, etc. Until the xServe, Apple really didn't have anything for the server room... so all this is somewhat new. And, until the new xServes in Oct. the above features didn't exist either.

The other thing to realize is that big-IT really isn't all that high-tech. Often everyone thinks it is, but its really the smaller companies that utilize better technology to compete with the deep-pockets of the large organizations. Anyone looking to emulate what the big companies are doing technology wise is often naive or foolish. Maybe its better if Apple stays a 'secret weapon' for the smaller folks... that's a much bigger market anyway.

-Steve

awcopus
Mac Elite

Joined: Nov 2001

0

09/01, 08:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
At the Expo...

... Apple showed the use of XServes and XRaids by a company that processes credit card transactions. There was this incredible picture of a room the company calls the Aquarium jampacked with Macs executing mission critical, industrial level tasks. And just a few years ago, Virginia Tech built a supercomputer using G5s, right? Sure Apple can improve its products (every computer company is constantly improving its offerings!), but they're doing pretty damn well for those who bother to take them seriously.

I dispute the notion that Apple's successful consumer branding is a problem. The problem is a lack of curiousity, vision, imagination, drive, and open-mindedness on the part of so-called "IT professionals".

alansky
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Joined: Mar 2000

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09/01, 09:06pm | report spam | close Reply |
Max bigotry & stupidity

Stupidity and bigotry go hand in hand. The stupid man becomes a bigot (in this case, a Mac hater) because he is incapable of evaluating tehnology (or anything else) on its real merits. He doesn't know good from bad. All he knows how to do is throw stones. So all is well; the morons are getting exactly what they deserve: Windows.

armwt
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2006

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09/01, 10:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Macs play well..sometimes

A lot of you sound as ignorant as you claim IT "Professionals" are. Truth is, as a Mac lover since 1984, AND as an "IT Professional", I do NOT think that Macs are easy to integrate into a true "enterprise" environment easily.

They have gotten much, MUCH better over the years, but still have a long way to go. Comments such as that in the article are indeed ignorant, but the truth is that Apple doesn't do a good job of convincing anyone that it's the wrong attitude.

Areas that Apple needs work for enterprise:

- More support for enterprise backup solutions. (Veritas, EMC, etc.) In our case, we have an existing support contract with a backup software provider, who doesn't have software that covers Macs. We've had no issues with the software, and convincing our CIO to switch a backup solution provider "just" so that we can put Macs in the server room just won't cut it.

- Inability to easily control security policy/machine policy. Most enterprise networks are running Active Directory. There is no easy way to have group policies in AD control Mac workstations. The "easy" solution is to set up an Open Directory environment, synchronizing passwords with AD. Only problem? See above - we can't convince the CIO to let us put in an OS X server box for the OD controller if we can't back it up.

I could go on, but trust me - I do this for a living. Most people who keep saying that "IT won't use Macs because they want job security" sound to me like they've never really worked in an enterprise IT field.

OS X, OS X Server, and Apple hardware has come a LONG way.... I think it's an excelent solution for small business, but I also believe that Apple it NOT seriously going after the enterprise market... if they were, their enterprise support would be better. They could do it if they wanted.. the fact that the haven't tells me they do not see it as a priority.

leamanc
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Joined: Oct 2003

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09/01, 11:20pm | report spam | close Reply |
Please, MacNN "editors"

A headline that states opinion should have some attribution. Something like:

Butler Group: Apple's brand hurts IT, edu markets

Or the less-frequently-used:

Apple's brand hurts IT, edu markets--Butler Group

It wouldn't hurt to change the first sentence of the story to attribute that sentence also, since it is only opinion, and not fact.

LouZer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

0

09/01, 11:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
XServes

I think the IT guys will tell you the first big problem with the XServes is that they aren't built as a true server. No backup power-supply? WTF is that? (Apple will finally fix this when they release their XServe intel version.)

And then you get into issues like telling customers how long they plan on supporting their OS and software. For how long will security releases be offered for 10.3 and 10.4? How long will the PowerPC architecture be supported? Apple has no answers to these questions. How is an IT guy supposed to take the company seriously when Apple itself doesn't even take enterprise market seriously.

And if you don't like that, how about this. Apple is known as a company that offers computers with features THEY decide users want, as opposed to offering computers that can meet what the users want. IT departments don't like to spend money on extended warranties (who would, you can get another computer for the cost of 3-4 of those things), but then Macs aren't fixable. You can't add features to them afterwards (not even airport or bluetooth, if its not built-in standard). The mini is a pain to open. iMacs are a waste for a business by merging the screen and computer together (great now, sucks that you can't just upgrade the computer and keep that monitor). MacBoook pro is needed to get any type of expansion capabilities.

BTW, you may not like the way people perceive Apple, but that's Apple's problem. They need to inform and instruct the IT dept's of the world. They can't just sit back and expect the industry to just 'see the light'. Mocking them is only what drives them to be more anti-mac, as they don't want to be part of that cult.

Jonathan-Tanya
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Joined: Oct 2004

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09/02, 12:18am | report spam | close Reply |
I'm in IT too

I'm a senior database administrator and a mac fan too.

Our company has always had mac's, so when we bought backup software, hp omniback, it had a back client, and it's never been an issue.

Mac's really are more popular, in my opinion, than solaris, hp/ux, and other unix variants....all of which suffer from lack of support compared to Windows, but have their uses nevertheless.

But, IT people aren't ignorant...they are just fans'. Technology lovers. And if you are on the Windows side of that divide, you go rah rah rah for the home team. Thats how it goes.

Apple has no business whatsover concerning itself with trying to get additional support from application vendors in the enterprise backup market. They've already got several good solutions, and the other companies will jump on board of their own accord...as they did with linux... as apple continues to offer a competitive solution at a good price with 'open source improved'... success will build on success.

Cf
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2002

0

09/02, 01:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Here's what I'm reading

from the IT guys posting.

To "Can't convince the CIO," CIO is part of the problem. Yes, I will volunteer to tell this to his/her face. Again, budget driven business stiffs drive the IT industry into the stagnant heap they are.

I won't say the IT guys are ignorant, but most (not you guys of course since you use Macs), but most have little to no experience working with Mac OS X and they still talk like PC guys did 10 or 12 years ago. Apple has made changes as one of you said. The IT guys need to learn to change.

There's also the question of job security. Several studies have been done showing Macs requiring far less support and upgrades than a Windows environment. You'll probably want to say that it's probably about average with regards to things like down time and hardware issues, but these studies my dear friends beg to differ with your opinions. I haven't worked in the IT field, but I've run circles around IT departments here in the US, the UK, and the Caribbean. I've helped many people trying to get their computers to work when IT said nothing could be done to help them. They are bound by rules that make you question their ability to think on their own. I don't think they are idiots, but they aren't being paid to think. As a future physician, I deal with the same robotic inability to question things for the good of the patient on a daily basis. Trust me, I get what you're trying to say, but "This is just how we do it in the IT world" doesn't cut it. It's irresponsible to the future of your field.

Yes, you go rah rah rah for the home team. Does that do the industry any good? You tell me.

The XServe comment was about the only on the level comment I read.

"IT departments don't like to" sounds more like them being difficult to deal with. When's the last time you told your kid to do something they didn't like doing? Tough cookies, right? Do it because it's good for you (ie: eat your veggies).

I'm reading lots of very immature thought processes here, so let me tell you where things probably stand with an analogy.

Current Democrats were trying to battle the Republicans by going after the middle of the road and fans of that camp instead of going after the millions of people who didn't vote. They lost. Apple needs to just kick you IT guys to the curb and go with people who want to use their machines.

I say keep your Windows. I'll move on with my life.

Mix3dSign4lz
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2006

0

09/02, 02:29am | report spam | close Reply |
Hater Playin IT Folks

Hmmm, Let me think...

"The most widely-sold UNIX-based operating system, Mac OS X"

I'll take a Mac with Dual boot running Linux any day. On the other Hand, can't wait to see the network stack nightmares on Vista. Can you say; "HackN-The-Box". I always loved the Blue Screen of Death. LOL. A smart IT Pro will anticipate, not REACT and Xserve sounds like a much better solution these days.

"Security is proven, not claimed".

Sorry, but It's gonna be many late nights for you IT Folks running your Dells and IBM's for all them Butler Group subscribers. ;-) Symantec's report says it all.

Cheers, .!/. {-.-} Mix3dSign4lz

< Of all the things I've lost... I miss my mind the most >

JulesLt
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2005

0

09/02, 05:05am | report spam | close Reply |
IT depts

The myth that it's to do with job security needs to be destroyed - IT depts would be far more secure if companies had a mix of Sun, Windows and OS X machines as they could spend all their time trying to get them working together.

The issue is that IT depts were pushed into cutting costs and rationalising systems in the early 90s and now frankly lack the knowledge of 'niche' players, like Sun or Apple, because newer recruits are always MCSE (because that's what was recruited). They are also - dare I say - typically less educated. In the 80s admins were often IT graduates, when that was a rare qualification.

I've seen our clients buy Windows Servers to run open source Java web server software, because they don't want to deal with Linux ('we don't have Linux skills'). Even within my own company - and we are pretty Unix literate, with Sun, IBM and Linux servers - there is very little understanding of Apple's products, or where they may be an appropriate part of the mix (our sales and marketing team should have MacBook's so they can use Keynote for starters). Do you blame tech staff for not keeping up with every company? (How many people here can compare a couple of Linux distributions, or JBoss vs WebSphere which are more 'real world' problems for big IT?). Does Apple do anything to market to these guys? Not really.

What I will say is that where they do, they could do it better - I saw their stand at an Oracle show and frankly the team they had there were out of their depth - they're used to selling OS X server as something to support Mac networks (particularly for people working with a lot of video), not as a well-priced Unix server system.

On the other hand, it is a difficult area to market into, and given the reasonable pricing the margins must be lower for Apple.

On the other hand, if they can continue to out-punch Dell on pricing (and I suspect they are getting a sweeter deal from Intel since Dell starting using AMD) I think you will see some interest in Apple server hardware for Windows and Linux servers, which may translate into curiosity about OS X itself

slider
Mac Elite

Joined: Oct 1999

0

09/02, 10:38am | report spam | close Reply |
What did U expect?

Couple of really good comments above. I've heard one IT guy (supporting windows), when asked by an employee about what kind of computer to buy for home, say, "If you're not going to buy a Mac, don't even bother asking me." It's a question of perspectives based on experience level, intelligence, and motives. I've talked to several people who work as IT people, some of them seem to have gotten the job only b/c they knew more than say the company's management. I knew a guy once that got an IT job based on a fancy resume and sitting up with a couple of tech savvy friends who prepped him for the interview the night before. Then there are others who know their job so well that when I talk to them the only reason I know they're speaking english is because I recognize the words, but what they are saying carries not meaning to me, but they seem to lack a certain comprehension of their social surroundings. Then there are others that do, there are a couple in this group, so perceive the job security aspect, other believe that windows base systems are just so entrenched in a large corporation that it would be impossible to try changing.

I think the 'success will build on success', comment was dead on. Overtime, as Apple continues to build it's user base, more and more companies will transition to Macs. But Apple is still a far ways off from that. Certainly, for a small company, the Mac platform, from an IT standpoint, is very appealing, as a moderately tech savvy guy can admin the technology. Even for a person starting a small business, if all they ever knew was PCs, then it's less likely that they'll even consider a Mac, therefore growing it's position in the consumer world has a lot of merit.

cebritt
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2000

0

09/02, 12:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
UNIX geeks get it

It's been my experience that the UNIX geeks are very open to Macs and actually quite curious about OS X. The XP crowd on the other hand, feel threatened by anything that's not from Redmond. s**** Mac, s**** Linux.

The UNIX guys are the true alpha geeks who appreciate good technology just for technology's sake. The XP guys are just technicians.

Feathers
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999

0

09/02, 01:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
japc

This discussion needs to separate the hardware and software issues. As of the introduction of the MacPro, it is JAPC, just another personal computer! It will equally run OSX, Linux or Windows.

The issue is one of software, where corporations might chose to specifically run OSX. Given the huge investment is multiple site licenses for software that only runs on *nix, linux, windows or whatever. Who in their right mind would chose to migrate to OSX Server? Nobody migrates!

The capital investment is in software and training and like it or not IT professionals (good or bad) can only retrain if the company pays for it, and why would they? You can't blame a man from Greece for only speaking Greek! If you want him to speak english or german, you're going to have to pay but corporations won't and realistically we can't expect them to. Apple's best target is NEW companies not old ones. Where is the growth? Hopefully in the new information and content areas, where conveniently Apple are well placed for the future, not the past. Ironically, many of the new web based technologies are or will be platform independent, so where will that leave anybody, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, HP or Apple?

eldarkus
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Joined: Feb 2004

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09/02, 02:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
bottom line

bottom line is that Apple has to make more inroads with SMB. As those SMB's grow, so will Apple's market share and awareness of how can the software can be used in large corporations. But most large organizations will not just ditch Windows, for reasons others have stated...

But Apple needs to get thier s*** together with the server software. Half of the stuff is just a basic GUI for 3rd party open source software (mailing lists, OOO's). They need more intergartion in the GUI.

Also, they could use some serious help with thier server documentation. **COUGH** Jabber server **COUGH**.

ValkRaider
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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09/02, 06:26pm | report spam | close Reply |
Dude!

Yeah, because nothing says "Enterprise ready" like "Dude - You're getting a DELL"!

Who cares if Apple is not used in every business on the planet? They make enterprise class hardware that can be used... It doesn't mean the industry should get rid of all other players and switch to Apple....

I am happy my company lets me use my Mac for work... 2 people out of 30 use a Mac in my office. That is not too bad...

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

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09/02, 08:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
Confucious say....

one plump berry in the hand is better than trying to reach 10,000 plump berrys.

The moral of the story, as jon says, success builds upon success.

I look at the Apple today with the Apple of the past, and I am a happy customer.

mdporter
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Joined: Sep 2001

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09/03, 01:39am | report spam | close Reply |
no groupware for macs

I support about 300 mac users in a windows centric company. If there was ever a reason for IT not to support macs, it would be Microsoft Entourage. MS can't be bothered to port outlook 2003, and their substitute is laughable at best.

AD support is there but is still flakey at times. I had an xserve that could join AD but not authenticate to it. Built another test box, same problem. Went down one OS rev, problem solved.

No three year standard warranty for business macs.

No onsite warranty for 50 pound G5 towers.. must carry to apple store.

No mac version of Outlook 2003.. all alternatives suck a**.

no support for sharepoint portal server, and no equivilant mac product either.

No mid level tower for office use (must buy either mini or Mac Pro).

Apple isn't a serious player in the business world because it doesn't seem to want to be one. Too many pieces of the puzzle are still missing.

There used to be Tech companies that were all mac (like Bay Networks). Cisco was heavily mac. Apple's failures in the mid 90's are still in people's minds.

gambit23
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Joined: Nov 2004

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09/03, 11:20am | report spam | close Reply |
re: CF

CF: As an IT Mac Monkey, I just had to reply to your ridiculous post, especially in light of reading jonathan-tanya's.

Maybe when you wake up from the dream you're having, you'll see that here in the real world jonathan-tanya's remarks ring true: Windows users ARE just fans, just like we are. They're fans rooting for the other team, and right now those fans are in the position needed to keep the other team in healthy business, no matter how much we think that should be otherwise. So, what's one to do? Do what Apple's doing: developing OS X into the OS it's becoming, make their prices and products competitive and brilliant, and slowly chip away at the old myths. Success builds on success and eventually people will notice. Eventually, the higher-ups will want to know what the fuss is about and they'll have the IT people investigate. Come a time, those same people will have to admit that Macs are better, and maybe some of the Mac-implementation of technology they already know will catch their eyes (like Time Machine, for one) and make them fans of THIS technology.

Maybe this is happening now. Maybe in a few months. It'll happen. Apple's resurgence is starting to raise eyebrows these days and people are curious, thanks in no small part to the fumbling of Microsoft.

It's getting to the point where more and more consumers are becoming educated, and they're no longer afraid of computers. They're starting to ask questions, and will Apple being in the news so often, I think people are starting to ask the right questions.

But, jeez, CF: don't go deluding yourself that there's no alternatives and that those alternatives shouldn't exist. That type of s*** is what makes all of us Apple fans look bad.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

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09/03, 11:52am | report spam | close Reply |
Xeon Xserves=redundant pw

The new Xserves coming in October will have redundant power supplies as a bto option.

jhorvatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

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09/03, 01:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
FUD story, writer doesn't

What a bunch of FUD. This writer doesn't know what the h*** he's talking about and there is no truth in anything this person has written. I'm seeing more stories about the education market gaining in the Mac sector and the Windows market is starting to fall away as colleges are having issues with Windows bad security and increasing support costs. Anyone who still says the Mac is not a real computer is still living in the 1990's and hasn't actually used a Mac in 10 years. I will be starting work in IT for the company SAP and the IT folks there are saying that there is more demand for the new Macs and they are increasing there Mac base. Were not talking about a little shop here folks were talking about a global business with 12 billion in earnings.

jhorvatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

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09/03, 01:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Macs don't have security?

Macs don't have security? Oh please! And WIndows with it's 300,000 plus viruses has security? OSX has been out almost 6 years and how many real world viruses have been found? ZERO! How many Macs have been really hacked into? ZERO! With a BSD unix base Mac OSX is more secure since it was in beta versus Windows ever. With that comment I am now convinced this person is a moron and has no clue of what he was writing about. His reasoning is totally Microsoft stupidity.

Fast iBook
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2003

0

09/03, 11:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Bill gates...

Bill gates uses a mac. Enough said.

bhuot
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2003

0

09/04, 02:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
as server is...

People who want to use Windows as a server do not actually understand what a server is. In a server things like reliability, security, and cost are some of the most important things. Windows fails on all accounts. Why do people want to run something on the server that can't even function reliably enough for a client?

TahoeJimRocks
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2006

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09/04, 03:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ed IT are narrow minded

Our school is one of two high schools in my district that are almost all Macs. We have 16 mobile carts of 30 iBooks each and every teacher has been issued a PB G4 (100 staff members). We have 5 servers and 13TB of file storage and 5 eMac labs of 30 units each. The entire system runs much better than high schools in are district with PCs. We keep this all humming along with one local IT that understands Macs. Yet, our district IT actively knocks macs when ever they can. I believe it is mostly out of fear. All of our district IT people were trained on PCs. They are afraid of Macs and do not understand the OS.

Another interesting fact is Apple does not abandon you once the project is completed-- after 3 years they still provide support. That can not be said of the PC companies that completed projects in other schools.

My two cents,

brlittle
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2006

0

09/04, 03:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
the actual headline...

The actual headline should be something more like "Outdated and ignorant stereotypes among the one-track minds in IT hurts IT, edu markets."

That's coming from an IT guy, folks.

Cf
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2002

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09/05, 01:27am | report spam | close Reply |
you misread me somehow

When did I say anything about not needing alternatives?

Look man, you missed the point. As others have pointed out after my post, the job isn't exactly requesting that they strive to become better. They get their MCSE and get shoved out into the world placed into positions one right after another. They aren't aware that hunching over in their comfortable little corner of the universe will chip away at the industry they're trying to serve. They could easily stand up and change MS security with enough pressure. They don't stand up though. They simply accept the problems as something they can live with instead of initiating some kind of change.

nativeNYer
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

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09/05, 10:41am | report spam | close Reply |
Re:no groupware for macs

"No onsite warranty for 50 pound G5 towers.. must carry to apple store."

Not true. I've had several PM G5s fixed on site. You just need to buy AppleCare with them. It states it right in their AppleCare documentation. Though you DO need to ask fo it, or they will try to get you to lug it in to an Apple Store- no thanks! Come here and fix it!

bleee
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002

0

09/05, 11:50am | report spam | close Reply |
RE:no big surprise

Hit the nail right on the head, Apple is better at making inroads into small/medium business than big business. I've been in all Mac shops and it works great, but only in small shops because you don't need to convince 30 other managers that Mac is the way to go. Most big business IT departments are all about liability who can you blame if something explodes, or in the case of X situation how does the Xserver cover it?? if you don't have an answer go home because someone else does. How about SLA's, can I get a 4hour turn around time replacement part if my Xserve or Xserve Raid hard drive fails? No you can't well someone else can. Especially if those dam hard drives are sealed in propritary cases.

Deal
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2001

0

09/05, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Read the Article

The title is extremely strong compared to what the article is REALLY saying.

If I were to sum this up (at MacNN should have), "Analyst believes Apples brand name which is bolstered by iPods and Music, will not help them seek inlets to big businesses...

...after some story about the authors glory days and some free VT220 monitors"

They may also want to mention that this story was a waste of my screen space. When eWeek posts something about Apple's short comings in the business world, at least they mention some real issues.

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toggle

Apple's brand hurts IT, edu markets

updated 06:30 pm EDT, Fri September 1, 2006

Apple brand hurts IT, Edu

Related Articles

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so

LOL

this kind of prejudice...

no big surprise

At the Expo...

Max bigotry & stupidity

Macs play well..sometimes

Please, MacNN "editors"

XServes

I'm in IT too

Here's what I'm reading

Hater Playin IT Folks

IT depts

What did U expect?

UNIX geeks get it

japc

bottom line

Dude!

Confucious say....

no groupware for macs

re: CF

Xeon Xserves=redundant pw

FUD story, writer doesn't

Macs don't have security?

Bill gates...

as server is...

Ed IT are narrow minded

the actual headline...

you misread me somehow

Re:no groupware for macs

RE:no big surprise

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