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iTunes to see real competition

updated 10:20 am EDT, Mon May 15, 2006

Urge beta set to launch

Apple will finally experience some real competition this Wednesday when a beta version of Urge -- a joint effort between MTV and Microsoft -- will launch to the masses. The Urge service will offer both subscription-based song downloads and pay-for-play ownership of digital tracks, priced competitively with similar services. Urge, like iTunes, plans to sell individual tracks for $0.99 each, allowing users to keep those songs even after they stop purchasing music from the online service. Urge, however, is also offering subscription services for users who prefer to "rent" music, which allows unlimited downloads for a flat monthly fee that become useless should they stop paying for the subscription. Urge is due to launch with an offering of 2 million tracks, matching iTunes, according to ITWire, but will not be compatible with Apple's iPod digital media player. Microsoft has said it will integrate Urge into its Windows Media Player, which will push the new service onto Windows desktops.

by MacNN Staff

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vickys_box
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jan 2003

0

05/15, 10:27am | report spam | close Reply |
Goody

This I have to see.

phillymjs
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05/15, 10:29am | report spam | close Reply |
Already a failure

It's not compatible with the iPod, the leading portable player, so it will fail. Practically everyone in the MTV target demographic already owns an iPod and is already using the iTMS. They won't give up their iPods to be able to use another online music store.

I give it six months of operating in the red before the plug is quietly pulled. Maybe a year if Microsoft is really stubborn about it.

~Philly

davedawgnyc
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Joined: Oct 2005

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05/15, 10:29am | report spam | close Reply |
*yawn!*

wake me when it's over.

scottrussell
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Joined: Mar 2001

0

05/15, 10:38am | report spam | close Reply |
ease of use?

This will only compete if it's easy to use. That's why iTunes and the iPod sell so well. If somebody can duplicate or improve the user experience, then we'll have a real competition.

Mr. Strat
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Joined: Jan 2002

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05/15, 10:41am | report spam | close Reply |
another stupid idea

Let me get this straight...the stuff I buy is only good as long as I subscribe? Who's the f****** moron that dreamed this up? And who's gonna buy it.

Philly is right. The MTV crowd has iPods. And if this content won't work in an iPod, what good is it?

And there's a business partnership for you - Microsoft and MTV...two top purveyors of c***.

bokubob
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Joined: Aug 2001

0

05/15, 10:43am | report spam | close Reply |
trust?

So, Microsoft has a near monopoly on desktop operating systems, and it's leveraging this monopoly to take over the online music industry. Nice.

Unfortunately the rules of the game change when you have most of the market.

-Jonathan

bobolicious
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Joined: Aug 2002

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05/15, 10:43am | report spam | close Reply |
Buy CD's...

...for better quality, portability & no 'big brother' ... ;-)

ibugv4
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Joined: Jun 2003

0

05/15, 10:50am | report spam | close Reply |
won't fly

with 50 cent still toting iPods in his videos and saying iTunes is the way to go. No one showed hom/talked him into supporting it, he did it cause he wanted to. I wonder who will sell out to promote Urge?

godrifle
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05/15, 10:55am | report spam | close Reply |
I've got an urge...

... it's called a gag reflex.

testudo
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05/15, 11:00am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: already a failure

It's not compatible with the iPod, the leading portable player, so it will fail. Practically everyone in the MTV target demographic already owns an iPod and is already using the iTMS. They won't give up their iPods to be able to use another online music store.

Well, its not compatible because Apple won't license their technology to anyone.

And iPod ownership is of minimal concern. According to surveys/studies, only a small percentage of people who buy music online use it on a portable music player, and only a small percentage of music on iPods are actually from iTMS purchases. There's still lots of people who listen to music on their computers.

And what do you mean its not compatible? Last week people were saying that iTMS was 100% compatible with other players because you could burn the music to CD and rip it into other formats. If you can do that here, its got the same compatibility.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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05/15, 11:06am | report spam | close Reply |
Re: various Comments

Let me get this straight...the stuff I buy is only good as long as I subscribe? Who's the f****** moron that dreamed this up? And who's gonna buy it.

You're not buying the music, moron. A subscription is basically spending $15 a month to listen to whatever music you want. You know, like satellite radio. Or cable TV. And you make this sound like this is a new idea. Its been around for years.

Philly is right. The MTV crowd has iPods. And if this content won't work in an iPod, what good is it?

And there's a business partnership for you - Microsoft and MTV...two top purveyors of c***.

So the MTV crowd has iPods, and MTV purveys c***. Does that mean that the iPod is c***?

So, Microsoft has a near monopoly on desktop operating systems, and it's leveraging this monopoly to take over the online music industry. Nice.

Unfortunately the rules of the game change when you have most of the market.

Yeah, really. Its nothing like Apple, who has a near monopoly on music players, and using that monopoly to promote its own music store. Nah, that's completely different.

with 50 cent still toting iPods in his videos and saying iTunes is the way to go. No one showed hom/talked him into supporting it, he did it cause he wanted to. I wonder who will sell out to promote Urge?

That's right. 50 cent is OK because he wants to promote the iTMS. But anyone promoting Urge is a sell-out? Maybe 50 cent is actually promoting the iPod because he wants to look hip to his iPod using crowd. Nah, that's not it.

road dog
Baninated

Joined: Aug 2005

0

05/15, 11:15am | report spam | close Reply |
try it first before...

you may want to actually try the subscription idea before you knock it.... just because steve jobs says it's silly doesn't mean you all have to agree.

it's actually pretty cool to be able to load any one of the 2 million songs in their library onto your player.

and just a reminder... you never own the music that you buy from apple anyway... even then you are renting from apple... they give you the right to use the music according to their terms of service... and if they ever change this... and they do... you can lose that right.

the only way to own music is to buy cds.

you rent from apple, urge, etc. anyone who has DRM protection on their songs is loaning the music to you.

chadpengar
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Joined: Oct 2001

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05/15, 11:26am | report spam | close Reply |
learn english

testudo needs to learn english.

The comment about 50 Cent was that he did it voluntarily. The "sell out" comment was that MTV would be paying someone to promote it, even if they did not really use it or care about it.

Also the difference between the MS Monopoly and the so-called Apple "Monopoly" is that MS was shown to have illegally gained theirs and then used it to leverage other products. Apple was given theirs through the market and are not leveraging theirs for other products. The iPod / iTMS IS the product in the so-called "monopoly" and is the subject of the discussion.

And iPod ownership is a lot more than a minimal concern. This MTV/MS thing will do little better than any other similar service precisely because it is not compatible with the iPod. People may listen to music on their computers but most of them ain't paying for it...

phillymjs
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Joined: Jun 2000

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05/15, 11:29am | report spam | close Reply |
re: already a failure

Well, its not compatible because Apple won't license their technology to anyone.

Well I don't exactly see Microsoft busting their asses to put out a version of Windows Media Player for the Mac that supports their DRM, either. And don't hold your breath waiting for one since they axed the product and farmed out Mac WMA/WMV (unDRMed, that is) support to a third party.

Until all those other Microsoft-DRM-based online music stores fully support the Mac, I have no sympathy for them when they whine about Apple not letting their tracks play on iPods.

~Philly

Foe Hammer
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Joined: Feb 2005

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05/15, 11:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Maybe They Should Switch

We can let Microsoft run MTV and MTV run Microsoft. Can't help but improve each other's products.

And as usual testtube-o gets it wrong. iPod ownership of minimal concern because only a small percentage of people who buy music online use it on a portable player? Milions upon millions of iPods sold are virtually insignificant because way more than that prefer to listen to music on their computers and not on a portable device? I'm not sure which flavor of the Microsoft Kool-Aid you've been drinking (Sour Grape, Diet Dumbass or Dipshit Delusional), but getting people to change from a seamless experience that works on both their computers and their iPods to yet another upstart also-ran that pretty much only works (degree to be determined) on their computer sounds like a wee bit of an up-hill battle against the mountain-dwelling man-eating giant mutated soul-sucking alien tyrannosaurs with teleportation powers. Armed with rubberbands while naked.

jhorvatic
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05/15, 11:57am | report spam | close Reply |
No competition for rentin

I'm sorry it won't work. Renting music has already been proven as a failure against iTunes. Next problem is it doesn't allow Mac users and the final and most important problem is there service isn't iPod compatible. So there is no difference with service versus any of the others that I can see. Just another lousy subcription service.

I.P. Freely
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Joined: May 2003

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05/15, 12:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
Shut up, r*****

"Well, its not compatible because Apple won't license their technology to anyone."

It's all about iPod, they aren't making tons of money selling iTMS, it's a service for people with iPod.

"And iPod ownership is of minimal concern. Blah, blah, blah...."

Again, Apple wants to sell iPod, and when you buy iPod, you can get this service. It's tied together for that reason. Apple don't need you to buy iTMS. Also iPod was the best seller before iTMS. People bought it because they can rip their songs to iPod. People will continue to do it. It's got nothing to do with iTMS.

"And what do you mean its not compatible? Last week people were saying that iTMS was 100% compatible with other players because you could burn the music to CD and rip it into other formats. If you can do that here, its got the same compatibility."

Hello, stupid! this service is not compatible with Mac.

I guess you are a moron.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

05/15, 12:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
Even bought songs on XP

Even with purchased songs on XP, you cannot do anything with them other than listen to them without burning to a CD and ripping them out again.

On OS X with iLife, you can use purchased songs in iLife directly from the iTunes library. That to me is the definition of ease of use.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

05/15, 12:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
testudo==Glasser?

Why are you so anti-iPod and so keep to quote Glasser's FUD? I have over 600 iTMS purchased songs on my iPod. The other songs are from CD's I own, my trial eMusic account (MP3's), free downloads from garageband.com and only a hand full of songs aquired elsewhere from the early days before iTMS.

Mr. Strat
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Joined: Jan 2002

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05/15, 12:35pm | report spam | close Reply |
I've thought it over

On second thought, this could be the biggest thing since IBM and Sears teamed up to form Prodigy. You had the marketing expertise of IBM and the computer expertise of Sears. Mmmm...boy.

macbarry
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2002

0

05/15, 12:42pm | report spam | close Reply |
doesn't make sense

I find it hard ot believe that the new Urge service will turn out to be "incompatable with an iPod". If that is truly the case then MS/MTV are clearly setting themselves up for failure. With 80% (or more?) of the portable music player market reported to be an iPod it would seem suicide for any music service to be incompatable with that device. But hey, while I could care less if either MS or MTV go down in flames I still suspect they are not so stupid to pull a RealAudio GlasserMove...

ZinkDifferent
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Joined: Jan 2005

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05/15, 12:56pm | report spam | close Reply |
testudo...

..as always, making the stupidest contribution to the thread.

No comments even necessary on what he wrote.

Bill Carver
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05/15, 12:57pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not emotionally attached

I personally don't care. It's been 30 years and Microsoft still has not yet had an original idea outside of software licensing. The basic problem is that Microsoft isn't cool. they can't be cool. It's just not in their nature. As long as Apple keeps providing the best solution overall, they will be untouchable from competition becuase no one else yet gets what itunes is all about. Furthermore, Apple makes very little $ on the tunes purchased. The iTunes music store is not meant to make money. It's made to sell iPods and it's done that very well.

benhur
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Joined: Jan 2001

0

05/15, 12:59pm | report spam | close Reply |
bring it

Personally I'm excited and a little worried about the MS and MTV venture. Sure we all know Apple's product is better but we all know the MS marketing machine and deep pockets convince people to make dumb choices.

This is good though. A wake up call to Apple. iTunes rocks but it's not perfect. There is definitely room for improvement. Maybe they'll finally offer a subscription model

ZinkDifferent
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Joined: Jan 2005

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05/15, 01:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
There was a time...

...when MTV was actually cool, and relevant. This time has passed very long ago. MTV combining resources with Microsoft, and hoping to gain a 'cool' product *really* illustrates that they will never regain a position of 'cool'.

As for URGE -- well, considering how 'hip' Bill Gates appeared when URGE was first launched, I think we all know how well it will do. :-)

Mr. Strat
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05/15, 01:18pm | report spam | close Reply |
who gives a s***?

Who gives a s*** about what 50 cent does? He's a rap guy. What does he know about music?

dynsight
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05/15, 01:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Some Missing the point

Actually, what I find most distressing is that the next version of Windows will have Urge built in (not iTunes). We know how lazy the average PC (and Mac User) is. Instead of going out and downloading iTunes, a lot of PC users will stick with Urge because it is easier (I am sure there will be lawsuits about packaging it, ala IE vs. Netscape).

Sure, most MP3 players are iPods, but not everyone has one (it just seems that way). Look on the trains/ busses etc and do a count. I see a lot of listening on tape players, Palm Devices, phones and CD players (a lot of CD players).

Competition is good (well, fair competition). It is how Apple reacts to this "threat" that will be very telling. Will they open up their DRM to other devices (not likely)? will they allow iPods to handle Microsoft's DRM (that would be interesting).

So...to quote the U.S. fearless leader...

Bring it on!

MacnnGregor
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05/15, 01:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Idiots attacking idiots..

Criminy this thread is stupid! First a few Macalots trash the idea without realizing what it is, then true to form testudo finds the inaccuracies in their logic, but adds more inaccuracies and the rest dump on testudo!!! Aaaaahhhh!

This won't fail b/c NS and MTV are no longer cool, and it isn't just a subscription .... read the article!!!!! It will be a moderately innocuous competitor because in fact t******* is right that there are more computers than iPods. If MS puts this on every pc that ships with Vista then 90% of the market will have it without cost. This set up the following dynamic: 1. Those with iPods now may toy with it, but will only pay monthly fees if they find it quick and easy on their computer, but they still download music to iPods b/c that's where their MOBILE music sits. 2. Those WITHOUT iPods will play around with this and if they find it a good experience and they buy a cheap player and they just listen to music during a job, but don't need the iPod ecosystem of appliances and such, they just won't end up buying an iPod ... which they might never do anyway.

3. The big competition happens when group 1 above needs to upgrade the iPod. Do they have hundreds invested in iTunes? Did they already sell off their CD's after ripping into iTunes? Are they interested in video and will Apple supply it inexpensively? Did they buy the Bose system? Can Apple keep the price comparable and the value higher?

If the answer to most of those questions is "yes" than this MS is no real threat.

But testudo is correct in his appreciation for the fact that like Apple in desktops, when you are the underdog it doesn't take much improvement to be significant.

Also since the vast majority of music is still sold as physical media, those buyers are still able to change formats if they feel the value changes. I think MS and MTV have enough time and money to keep this going until Apple makes a mistake or looses a court case. They are the anaconda waiting in the weeds for the day the gazelle to get too old.

All Apple needs to do to fend this off is keep it's iPod line refreshed, keep a player as far on the lowend as possible (because that is where the Urge threat will come from), get more video content on the iPod in a good resolution for the TV too, and keep an iTunes subscription service (I prefer iTunes Radio Streams) in the back pocket if needed!

Simple.

rtbarry
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05/15, 01:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
macnngregor...

...is right on the money.

but let me add: testudo is still a teenaged toolbox whose ultimate career goal is to be steve ballmer's houseboy.

henk
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05/15, 02:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
MS vs CONSUMERS

Microsoft is indeed the single most uncool businesss around. The cooler they play, the harder they smell. This busiiness unit is doomed, unless, like in the case of the x-box they plan to poor in money to burn for years to come. I think it wwold be a better idea for Microsoft to start building an OS instead that has something to offer...

bsnoel
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05/15, 02:33pm | report spam | close Reply |
Whatever

If it does not work with the iPod, then its not going to fly. And no, I am not going to try to jog with a Microsoft Oragami Device the size of a brick.

climacs
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05/15, 03:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
if it doesn't work with

iPod, it's doomed. Period.

So long as people keep buying iPods, that is.

And I think it's highly unlikely that M$ is going to create an interface more easy to use than iTMS... unless they rip off iTMS that is!

testudo
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05/15, 03:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: learn english

testudo needs to learn english.

Sorry, I was born in America. Blame the lousy school systems.

The comment about 50 Cent was that he did it voluntarily. The "sell out" comment was that MTV would be paying someone to promote it, even if they did not really use it or care about it.

But my point is that you seem to think anyone who then shills for Urge is going to be a sell-out, which is only true iff a person gets paid for promoting the service, but doesn't believe in it. Who says people won't promote it for free? Oh, right, its not an iPod or iTMS, so no one would think of such a thing.

My point on 50 cent is that he might be shilling the iPod because he wants to look cool, not because he believes in it, being a sell out himself. Just because he's not being paid for it doesn't mean he actually believes in it.

Also the difference between the MS Monopoly and the so-called Apple "Monopoly" is that MS was shown to have illegally gained theirs and then used it to leverage other products. Apple was given theirs through the market and are not leveraging theirs for other products. The iPod / iTMS IS the product in the so-called "monopoly" and is the subject of the discussion.

It doesn't matter HOW you got a monopoly, its what you do with it afterwards. The iPod and iTMS are NOT one product, its too, joined at the hip. And there's no denying the fact that Apple has so far decided that no one else should be allowed into their playground.

And yet, when someone else tries to do a service, its "it won't play on an ipod, so it sucks!". Well, why won't it play? Because Apple won't let them. So Apple basically continues to rule the digital download market by leveraging their player against it. Seems very MS to me.

testudo
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05/15, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: shut up

It's all about iPod, they aren't making tons of money selling iTMS, it's a service for people with iPod.

It is? Then what about all those videos, and people making minis into home entertainment systems, and all that. Are you saying that is of no interest to the iTMS. All those TV shows are for iPods? People don't play their music on stereos anymore?

Again, Apple wants to sell iPod, and when you buy iPod, you can get this service. It's tied together for that reason. Apple don't need you to buy iTMS. Also iPod was the best seller before iTMS. People bought it because they can rip their songs to iPod. People will continue to do it. It's got nothing to do with iTMS.

Then why not support Windows DRM for the iPod (and before you all get on the "it don't support the mac" rant-parade, keep in mind that MOST iPod users a PC users - which, by the way, is when the iPod took off, when it got PC compatibility). If its not about the music store, then they shouldn't care about supporting it.

"And what do you mean its not compatible? Last week people were saying that iTMS was 100% compatible with other players because you could burn the music to CD and rip it into other formats. If you can do that here, its got the same compatibility."

Hello, stupid! this service is not compatible with Mac. Again, more iPod users are PC users. And, I guess you could argue that if Apple's not going to support Windows DRM, nor make Fairplay available to others, why should MS support them?

I guess you are a moron.

Takes one to know one! Nya-nya.

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

05/15, 03:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: testudo=-Glasser

Why are you so anti-iPod and so keep to quote Glasser's FUD? I have over 600 iTMS purchased songs on my iPod. The other songs are from CD's I own, my trial eMusic account (MP3's), free downloads from garageband.com and only a hand full of songs aquired elsewhere from the early days before iTMS.

Gee, I guess that's a lot. I've probably spent WAY, WAY, WAY too much on the ITMS, somewhere in the range of $1000+. But I also know there's a lot more people who buy CDs only, or 'steal' their music, or whatever, and put them on their iPods. It all averages out. (Just like I can't believe that everyone who uses the iTMS has an iPod).

And who's glasser?

testudo
Fresh-Faced Recruit

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05/15, 04:16pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: macnngregor

but let me add: testudo is still a teenaged toolbox whose ultimate career goal is to be steve ballmer's houseboy.

I see, so even if someone has used Macs since 1984, and uses Windows only when he has to, is Steve Ballmer's houseboy because he doesn't drink Steve Job's kool-aid. Say anything not 100% a**-kissing of Apple, and you're just a troll.

Yeah, glad to see all these objective people on these boards.

BTW, if iPod compatibility is 100% priority for a service to exist and survive, and Apple refuses to allow anyone else to play in his world, does this mean that no company should bother trying to create a player or music store? Just give it over to King Steve for the rest of time?

Man, glad apple didn't do that in the 80s, when everything was "Does it work on the IBM PC" was the question at the time.

chadpengar
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Joined: Oct 2001

0

05/15, 04:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
lousy school system

testudo blames the lausy school systems for his lack of English language comprehension ability and his lack of reasoning ability.

Seems like a good excuse to me!

chadpengar
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2001

0

05/15, 04:41pm | report spam | close Reply |
lausy = lousy

so I can't spell. At least I can read.

bigpoppa206
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Joined: Jun 2003

0

05/15, 06:01pm | report spam | close Reply |
this argument

is over before it started. again MS will fail and in the big scheme of things, they really don't care.

SubPop
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Joined: Jan 2006

0

05/16, 12:37am | report spam | close Reply |
trolstudo? don't think s

Man, glad apple didn't do that in the 80s, when everything was "Does it work on the IBM PC" was the question at the time.

Well put Tessy... WELL put!

skipidydoda

Joined:

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05/19, 05:46pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
your RDF and my hopes

Wake up Steve Zombies! Many of you are too young to realize, but history shows us that no one company or product stays on top forever. And, if recent history does show us one thing, it is that Microsoft has been on top way longer than is normal. Sure, I personally think they are way overhyped, and that given a current-day do-over, Apple would give them a real run for it. However, the fact still remains that 90% of computers belong to MS - period. Also, many of you give too much credit to the iPod and it's very recent and relative success. In this niche market, Apple does great. Sure. But, that's not enough. Many out there in the US and the World are tiring of Apple's antics, as well as the BIG4 (music labels). How many anti-Apple pro-MS types will it really take to turn the tables? I certainly don't know, but I hope and trust that the folks at Apple aren't as stupid to think that they won... the game isn't over. Fear the reaper, etc.

Apple is doing well with the iPod, no mistaking that, but they better make more moves to keep that gap open or it will all fall down around them, you and I. Eyes wide open - fear the Urge!

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iTunes to see real competition

updated 10:20 am EDT, Mon May 15, 2006

Urge beta set to launch

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Goody

Already a failure

*yawn!*

ease of use?

another stupid idea

trust?

Buy CD's...

won't fly

I've got an urge...

Re: already a failure

Re: various Comments

try it first before...

learn english

re: already a failure

Maybe They Should Switch

No competition for rentin

Shut up, r*****

Even bought songs on XP

testudo==Glasser?

I've thought it over

doesn't make sense

testudo...

Not emotionally attached

bring it

There was a time...

who gives a s***?

Some Missing the point

Idiots attacking idiots..

macnngregor...

MS vs CONSUMERS

Whatever

if it doesn't work with

Re: learn english

Re: shut up

Re: testudo=-Glasser

Re: macnngregor

lousy school system

lausy = lousy

this argument

trolstudo? don't think s

your RDF and my hopes

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