I've had the good fortune of having great tech support from India.

When I first realized I was speaking to someone in India I was worried I wouldn't get the service or help I needed. I was wrong. The support people were amazing and I had no problem understanding them.

The only thing I didn't like about it was that they introduce themselves with western names; after talking to them during the support process I would have liked to know the REAL name of the person helping me. They're great.

I believe this is a sad day for Apple. One of the things I liked about Apple was their support. Ask most people about Dell's support in India - it is terrible.

Sadly, Apple I believe is looking only at the bottom line these days and cutting costs. The people that typically buy Macs are willing to pay a little more for quality and better service.

I am very disappointed in Apple.

I have nightmares of servicing my friends Dells when trying to speak to these people in India.

Just last Friday I tried to order a pizza from a local/regional pizza company called Vocelli's. I called the local number, no more than 2 blocks away, and I get this sing-songy "Hello, may I take your order". I know there are no Indians working at this Pizza shop so I asked, where am I calling. I couldn't believe it, they said "Bangalore". Imagine, ordering take-out pizza from India. What a nightmare.

Needless to say, I told the gentleman that I was sorry, but I could never purchase Pizza from India, it most likely would arrive cold.......and I hung up. Poor fellow.

Listen, these Indians are not the problem. They are undoubtely very dedicated people just working like every other stiff out there.

The problem is with these companies that set up service there. Apple is stupid to do this. When I call Apple from the USA, I expect to hear somebody from here, that understands me, that I understand. That has the same cultural viewpoint and business priorities.

Now, lets take India. Most Indians have never set foot in the USA. They have absolutely no cultural understanding of the USA other than what they read on the Internet or listen on TV. They have no concept of business or business priorities that are important to Americans. And despite their excellent language training, they still cant communicate as effectively as a 6 grader from an inner-city school.

And when you try and try to get through to the Indians (as my experience with Dell illustrates), the get frustrated, as any person would, and become absolutely useless. I, on average, spend 3 hours with Dell Indians to get a problem solved that a US representative could solve in about 30 min. And Im PISSED, so pissed that I will never suggest a Dell to anyone.

Customer service in India should service Indians. Customer service in the USA should service Americans. Customer servie in the UK shoud service Brits. Etc.

This is the begining of the end for Apple's usually stellar tech support ratings. Other major OEM's have tried this and watched thier customer satisfaction ratings plummit. I guess, I will be thinking twice before puchasing "Apple Care".

This is outstanding, I can now save the hundreds of dollars in Apple care costs, as i will not pay for support I can not use. I have experienced overseas support from both Apple and HP, Apple in Ireland and HP in India. Apple support was great HP support was OK but took 4 times as long to complete a similar task, my company does not want to pay me to sit on the phone for several hours to resolve a simple problem (In the case of the HP call the CPU fan died, the call after time on hold was 1 hour with actual support time of 5 minutes).

You people just don't understand how this all works. This is all part of a grand plan. See, people used to call Dell about their broken computers, parts, and peripherals. They'd talk to US support, not get the problems resolved, and blame Dell for crappy computers.

Now, you call dell about the same issues, and when all is said and done, its not the computer your complaining about, its the support. Great. Now Dells' computers aren't taking the blame, its the support. So they get better computer rankings (lousy support rankings, but, generally, all companies have bad support rankings).

Now Apple's hoping to do the same. When you iMac's capacitors blow, or the monitor starts futzing on your iBook, or your new MacBook starts hissing at you, you'll be so irritated at support that you'll just live with the problem.

Hey, and then the more people stop calling, the more money apple saves on support costs. Its win-win! (OK, so you lose, but Apple wins and wins!)

I bought my sister a Dell computer a year or two ago, and it had a $100 rebate on it. I literally had to call the people a half dozen times to finally get my money, as they claimed things from "There was no warranty" to "Yes, you should see the check any day now". It was seriously irritating, as the language barrier was an added frustration. I'm sure some people would've given up, saving dell even more money.

See, more win-win here!

(Oh, I did get my rebate, actually $106!, as I wasn't going to let them take my money from me. Luckily I had a PDF of the packing slip that said "$100 rebate" on it that I emailed the woman. The sound of her saying "you're right, it does say $100 rebate" was priceless...)

Another reason to avoid rebates, BTW.

I don't even know who it is you people are calling, or why you can't understand what people over there are saying. I've used support from Dell and Linksys based out of Indian, Argentinian, and Romanian call centers. The hardest to get through to were the Romanians, but in the end, I got through just fine.

I don't know if this is just an example of Americans being unable or unwilling to understand any culture outside of their own, but really.... try. Those of you who claim that Indians have different business priorities from your own, or some other such nonsense, need to wake up and talk to some real Indians. You might realize that they are not nearly as different as you imagine. Indians are among the most pro-American people in the world, which really says something in a global environment where most people think of Americans as fat, ignorant bullies. Some of the comments on this topic do little to challenge that perspective. Further, Indian economic, political, and business traditions have long reflected, if at times imperfectly, those of the west.

Further, do any of you really think that these outsourced jobs will get any existing Apple call centers in the States closed down? Hardly! More than likely, it'll mean that Applecare support will be available beyond 6PM PST.. maybe even 24h. I would much rather talk to someone when I need help at midnight in California than wait 'till the following morning. A competent call center operation in India might make Applecare more robust without costing anyone jobs.

As to the failure of call centers to resolve issues... this problems lies less with Indians and their cultural/social 'differences,' and more with the ability of the outsourcers to train their staff in the problems that may arise, and the appropriate means to solve those problems and help customers. Language training in India has improved markedly, and the fundamental technical education has always been strong. The final step is training people how to best solve the complaints of angry or frustrated customers. The knee-jerk 'I won't order a pizza from Bangalore' response won't change global labor trends, nor will it help make anyone's customer support experience any better.

NO!!!!!

The problem is in the socialogical reach of Americans, not so much in Apple making a smart move. Unhappy that Apple plays to the common man now? Gives crappier service, more like what the common man is used to? Funny, even my BMW dealer treats my car about as poorly as my mother's Ford Focus these days. I don't think it's JUST an apple thing.

Have you looked where your Mac is made?!? You want Apple to provide you the best computer for your dollar and this is what you get. Would I rather that all manufacturing and support would be in the US, Canada and Western Europe (except France), you bet! I don't think most of us are willing to pay additional costs involved.

Call centers in India can be staffed with people of superior knowledge and verbal skills if the company in question is willing to pay for it. Dell obviously is not, how Apple will handle this is yet to be seen.

... before no one has a job anymore to buy an Apple (replace with HP, Dell or whatever) computer, iPod etc. U.S. companies are outsourcing everything. As a result, people here are losing their jobs. But those are the same people those companies want to seel their products to. Well, if those people no longer have a job - how can they? This is so shortsighted. It will look good in a company's quarterly or even annual report, but they'll be shooting themselves in the foot in the long term. I'm certain, though, executive pay won't be affected.

I am tired of companies training these offshore workers to speak/sound american and also to have american names. When as consumers are we going to say enough is enough and stop supporting these companies that purposely deceive their customers by this cheap labor? I close accounts and move on to other companies when I find this type of betrayal. Good bye Wamu, GE credit, BofA.... I paid and support Apple because of their onshore support. I certainly am not going to pay a preimum for their products and get cheap labor that I cannot understand or care to!

I guess that this CNN article and Dell, and Gartner, are just dead wrong.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/01/magazines/business2/costofoutsourceing/index.htm

I have dealt with Indians. My company outsoruced code to them.

Yes, they are very hard working and intelligent people. But, they are not "out of the box" thinkers.

They know what their taught and can exercise that knowledge well. But, they are not innovative or "fast on their feet" thinkers. When asked to do XML-RPC, instead of using the .Net framework (which they obviously didn't know or want to learn), they hardcoded the XML.

Finally, after a code review from our (USA) tech department, my company decided to bring the work back in-house. Now, we have to deal with a lot of shortcut code that would have never been written like that by the USA Team.

Sorry, going to India WILL NOT be good for Apple Support.

Listen, we are in America. I am not jingoistic when I say I want Americans handling my CUSTOMER SUPPORT issues.

My customers are not interested "giving them a try" when I am charging them $100 an hour to set up their Dell from h*** boxes.

The problem is that we somehow think we are saving. I don't care about India, Romania, or wherever. I want service. I wouldnt even know about India if they didnt suck so much at support. In fact, have you noticed that many Apple calls are routed through the UK? Ive spoken to Apple technitions from the UK a million times. And they all communicate effectively.

I don't want Indians, Philapinos, Romanians, or others that are just learning how to operate in the global economy. I want service. And to date, the only people that can effectively communicate are Americans, and to a lesser extent, the Brits. (oh, so sorry, forgot the Canadians......)

It's not closed mindedness, I just came back from an Indian resturant tonight, and I love the food. Love my Japanese car, but would never expect to reach someone in Japan for customer service.

Lemme guess, your about 21, a freshmen in college, and believe blindly in the free market???

Well, this is the way it will pan out. Customers will get pissed off and go away. Its that simple. No way will I EVER order a pizza through Bangalore!

I think this is a huge mistake! Modeling the support system after Dell's India support operation is a big step backwards.

One of the things that sets Apple apart from the rest of the tech industry is the level of tech support offered to their customers. This decision will remove one very compelling reason to buy Apple.

All of the multi-national companies who have short sightedly moved their tech support centers off shore should seriously look at rethinking their decisions. I believe it makes much more sense to have support centers in each of the markets that an organization serves. If you are selling to the US, you should have a tech support presence in the US. If you are selling to Mexico, you should have a presence in Mexico. If you are selling to China, Russia, India or any other country with a potential language issue, you should have a presence in those countries.

It takes much longer to get tech support from someone who doesn't speak the same language as the caller does regardless of what that language may be.

To SamAffel: You are absolutely right. They are not 'out-of-box' thinkers.. or at least, not commonly so. It probably will be a few years before Indian technical people are educated that way. But they are generally quite knowledgeable, and given appropriate leeway and flexibility, they can generally handle most support issues. Unfortunately, Many tech support operations have taken to a cookie-cutter approach to managing how support calls are handled, and these approaches are often woefully inadequate (i.e Dell). I have no doubt that this sort of problem extends to other forms of outsourcing, like programming. But if you pay more or train more, you can certainly get better quality. Rather than jumping on Indians in general as death knell to Apple's quality control, why not take a wait-and-see approach? I for one would welcome a hybrid support solution whereby we could get daytime Applecare support from Stateside reps, and after-hours support from call centers abroad.

I wish I was only 21 years old and still an undergrad! Of course, if I was, I might have the same delusionally nationalistic outlook that you are sharing with me today! Either way, you know nothing about me, so why assume? I don't need to vet my credential to have an opinion to you or anyone else on the internet, as mine is as good as yours. Rest assured, though, I and my clients have had some experience with offshore call centers, and they are not the same as yours.

Further, I'm no expert on free markets, but I am also well aware that your form of 'economic nationalism' has led to the bankrupting of many economies in the past, including India's.

India's history is rife with the sort of protectionism you advocate for Americans (India for Indians, Third-World Socialism, Nonalignment, Self-Sufficiency), and the results have been very much a mixed bag. One of the reasons India is so poor today, despite it's surging economy, was the nation's closed outlook toward management of business, insisting that products for Indians be manufactured and supported by Indians, even if those Indians were less efficient or lazier than offshore rivals. In divesting themselves of State owned enterprises, the goverment has heard the same sort of whining I read in your post, but the end result is that the middle class has doubled in size, and people are more prosperous than ever before. Thanks to the global economy, your computer is cheaper, faster, better, and continues to improve while prices stay down. Service options are evolving toward the same level of competency. Are they perfect yet? No. But I for one have been very pleased with their ability to resolve my issues, and I am not alone. Hanging up the phone when someone with an Indian accent picks up is a losing battle. If you really think that walking away from the issue will make it disappear, I think you'll be very surprised at the changes the next few years will bring.

I find it very interesting that you are willing to accept that just about every component of your computer was constructed and assembled in China (a nation that has one of the most repressive governments in the world), but that you are unwilling to accept the same 'offshoring' with respect to CUSTOMER SUPPORT. Do you know what most widely spoken language in India is? (It's English) I wonder why it is that you can communicate with Anglo Brits (also offshore) who are trained in English medium schools, but can't communicate with Subcontinental Indians trained in English medium schools!

Have you ever imagined that the problems that we see in setting up support centers in Delhi, Chennai, or Bangalore are due to the companies, rather than Indians and their national 'inability to communicate clearly?' If you look at it in that way, you might realize that there is some hope for a competent and far reaching Applecare support supplement if Apple plays their cards right.

L

The article states that many companies face a backlash on outsourcing because they fail to measure the abilities of the contractors they hire. This is not an 'Indian,' 'Argentinian,' or 'Romanian' problem. It's a question of giving a contractors a stake in your enterprise, and working with them to determine how they can best serve your corporate ends. That involves paying contractors more, and clearly determining need of consumers. There is no reason to suspect that Apple may not take a higher road than Dell, and set up a competent offshore operation. It is, in fact, possible to do just that.

This is truely amazing! I have been a great admirer of Steve Jobs and to have Apple open a center here is a testimony of India's reputation in the IT domain. There seems to be a lot of criticism about our quality approach. Some of them are absolutely true. No denying. But you guys must understand that earlier, most of these companys that set up shop in India tried to first go for volumes and these start putting in quality filters. There was a tendency to encourage the employees to get more numbers and meet targets rather than perfect solutions. The result was some shortage in quality, major cost savings AND an increase in profits. Which was why more and more companies followed the outsourcing model. As of today, there IS a lot of focus on enhancing quality/innovation and employees are encouraged to constantly raise the bar. Finally, globlization is here to stay. More and more companies are going to move jobs to India. You can either accept it or keep blogging.

First from what I understand, there was misinformation in this article about Apple closing down their Austin site. At no point has Apple mentioned they are "moving" their support off shore. They merely stated they are building a site in Bangelor. Most people call this expanding.

Second, Apple is a *world* wide company and they seem to be growing, thus opening more call centers makes sense. Especially in a place where the hours they may be open will cover a lot of time zones.

As for the prejudice of "I'm not talking to India" well, I've spoken with some of the Bangelor agents and they were easy to understand. I think people are still reeling from a bad experience from when other companies actually did "move" their support to India and as most new situations go, it had a lot of issues, probably still does. I don't buy my computers for them so I'm not worried about what they are doin.

In regards to people using western names, that's something people are instructed to do to make those they are speaking with feel more at ease. I don't think it works for Americans, but it does seem to work in the UK where they started doing this a long time ago.

Over all I think this knee jerk reaction is a little over keel and some of it is due to the apparent misinformation supplied here. Don't sell Apple so short on brains. Considering they are a small but Strong company and have prided themselves in beating every other company's computer support for half a decade in a row seems to be a statement on how seriously they take their customer support.

I've never had one postitive experience with any support from a phone talker in India. I pray I never will have to call one for any help with an Apple problem.