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Non-native programs slow on Intel iMac

updated 11:05 am EST, Thu February 23, 2006

Non-Apple apps on Mac

Lack of software compatibility and performance continues to plague the Intel iMac and its functionality, according to a new review by PC World. The review notes that while Apple applications run much faster on the new iMac in comparison to its predecessor, third-party software is disappointingly slow. The Intel iMac boots more quickly and program response is "much snappier" versus the PowerPC versions, but programs such as Mozilla Firefox and Adobe Photoshop now take about twice as long to respond as previous versions, says Rebbapragada. PowerPC software does run on the new iMacs, but programs not written in Universal Binary--a format that contains native versions for both Intel- and PowerPC-based Macs--must be translated real-time through Apple's Rosetta software. Rebbapragada lowered the rating for the new iMac in comparison to the PowerPC iMac due to these speed issues.

by MacNN Staff

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MacnTX
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Joined: Apr 2004

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02/23, 11:23am | report spam | close Reply |
News Flash...NOT!

This is hardly anything new. Apps running under Rosetta are equivalent to those running a midrange G4 Mac. Rosetta is also a RAM hog, so adding additional RAM helps out with Rosetta performance a great deal. I noticed a dramatic increase in speed with PPC apps once I upgraded from the standard 512MB.

Besides, within a year this won't even be an issue anyway as virtually everything will be Universal by then.

howdesign
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02/23, 11:29am | report spam | close Reply |
Quandry

I'm in the market for a new laptop, and I've struggling between buying a refurbed Powerbook or new MacBook. I used lots of Adobe (PS, Flash, Illus, InD, GL) and only tend to get new machines every 3+ years. Chances are Adobe and others will still make PPC compatible software for the next few years, so the decision for me is tough. Yeah, fast iMovie scores are nice, but coming from a PB 667, even slow MacBook scores are an improvement. Help!

J.W. Pepper
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2001

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02/23, 11:33am | report spam | close Reply |
More like 2-3 years

If the transition to OSX is anything to go by, it will be nearer two years before most applications and drivers are re-written.

Don't underestimate the amount of work to be done partically if you own a multi-function printer or use applications like NeoOffice, it seems that NeoOffice may never be made into a Univeral Binary.

scotty321
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Joined: Nov 1999

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02/23, 11:34am | report spam | close Reply |
Annoyed with ad links!

Is anybody else totally ANNOYED at MacNN for adding ADVERTISING LINKS into their stories? Who would ever expect MacNN to sell out like this? And destroy our once-enjoyable reading experience at MacNN!! MacNN has gone completely downhill... and these new link-based ads just prove how far MacNN has fallen.

shawnce
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02/23, 11:38am | report spam | close Reply |
Keep in mind...

If you have a TiBook (1 GHz) the MacBook Pro (MBP) 2.0 GHz will out perform it even when running Photoshop under emulation (performance numbers show this). So for a large number of folks with 3+ year old laptops even with emulation the MBP are a nice upgrade... and when native versions of the application you use come out you will benefit even further.

In other words for those with older laptops getting MBP will not disappoint and it will continue to get better over the next year or so as optimized / native software comes out with out you having to upgrade any hardware.

siMac
Mac Elite

Joined: Aug 2004

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02/23, 11:40am | report spam | close Reply |
this just in...

Non-native programs slow on Intel iMac! 'Earth is round', according to Google software! Scientists say poking yourself in the eye with a pencil can damage your sight!

Feathers
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999

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02/23, 11:42am | report spam | close Reply |
right on scotty!

These embedded ad-links are "despicable", as Daffy Duck would say!

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

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02/23, 11:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Scientist discover.......

Scientists discover that water is wet.

This story is sensationalist garbage. There are already hundreds of universal binaries released or about to be released. Just because Adobe is dragging its feet, it does not mean that everyone is.

howdesign
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Joined: Aug 2005

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02/23, 11:47am | report spam | close Reply |
Bummer

The only bummer I could see is if any new Adobe apps don't really show significant improvement numbers... it would be REALLY reassuring to have Adobe and Apple do a dog and pony demo where they at least show early versions of Universal apps and some performance claims... won't see that happen though I'm sure. At least not until much later this year or next.

misterjoeblack
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02/23, 11:48am | report spam | close Reply |
intel iMac owner

I own both a intel iMac and also a PowerBook G4. To be honest I have been pleasantly suprised by the performance of the iMac and have no real issues with Rosseta's performance. My only problem is until companies like Real update their software to include a universal binaries browsing the web can be a pain as some webpages are broken but its no biggy.

icecrystal23
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Joined: Dec 2005

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02/23, 11:50am | report spam | close Reply |
ad links

scotty: you can turn these off. hover over one or something and say "about" and then you can to a page where you can say "don't show me these"

Kenstee
Mac Enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2002

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02/23, 12:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
They're Not Wrong

Let's not be defensive. They're right. The reality is until the major apps like MS Office, Photoshop, PSElements, etc. become UB using a Mactel will not offer a major advantage to many users. The hardware is definitely way ahead of the software right now.

There is HUGE potential here though. But, it may take 12-18 months before it is realized.

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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02/23, 12:47pm | report spam | close Reply |
to: the duh! people

First, I'd like to point out that everyone's been touting these as "just as fast under rosetta, since the chips are so much faster!". That apparently isn't true, according to this review. Therefore its not a 'duh!' statement. Some people may be thinking of buying these based off the presumption and assertation that its just as quick. And, hey, maybe its not!

Now, for this comment: If you have a TiBook (1 GHz) the MacBook Pro (MBP) 2.0 GHz will out perform it even when running Photoshop under emulation (performance numbers show this). So for a large number of folks with 3+ year old laptops even with emulation the MBP are a nice upgrade... and when native versions of the application you use come out you will benefit even further.

This is only true if: a) you don't need classic, b) you don't need VPC c) all the software you have will run under Rosetta (not all does) d) you don't have software/hardware that requires a kernel extension or the like that hasn't been updated.

In other words for those with older laptops getting MBP will not disappoint and it will continue to get better over the next year or so as optimized / native software comes out with out you having to upgrade any hardware.

Man, you know something, I remember this exact same thing being said when the first PPC macs came out. And I don't recall it actually coming to fruition. Keep in mind that some developers might go just far enough to update their apps so they run without issue under rosetta and no further (why waste the money on re-devloping for an intel binary if it runs good enough under rosetta?).

And if Apple or someone else gets WINE or the like to run well under OS X, they might just toss their mac apps altogether and just say "get the windows software and install DarWINE (included on the disk)".

Gorloth
Registered User

Joined: Nov 2001

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02/23, 01:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Adobe slowest ?

Remember when OSX first came out. I didn't move to it until 10.1 and then had to wait for Photoshop, Well the big juggernaut that Adobe is made their apps carbon so they would run on OS X and OS 9. Well Steve told them to write with XCode or cocoa not carbon. Did Adobe listen...nope. See now Adobe has to rewrite almost from the ground up in Cocoa which is why they won't offer any CS2 items in binary. Also now that Lightroom is new they wrote it as a Cocoa app and wha laa intel binary came out pretty quickly. Put the blame on Adobe for not paying attention to Steve's recommendations to write their apps in Cocoa.

resuna
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Joined: Jan 2005

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02/23, 02:00pm | report spam | close Reply |
neo office

Isn't neooffice a Java application?

Doesn't Apple include a native Java runtime, or are they waiting for Sun?

newmacnut
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Joined: Feb 2006

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02/23, 02:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
New Mac User

Well, I for one jumped on the bandwagon and got the new 20in iMac Intel. Let's say I have not been disappointed. Office for example feels just as fast under Rosetta as it did on a G5. Maybe the numbers don't support, but the feel of it is similar. And yes, web surfing can ge a pain until flip4mac updates to universal code. It does not run under Rosetta. So for a first time Mac owner, I have been very pleased and would recommend to anyone. I am not an Adobe user, so that may affect some of my feelings.

MarcoF-Foto
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02/23, 02:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
Nearsightedness?

Yes, with the standard 512MB the intel is slow as a snail. But if you use (e.g.) Photoshop anyway, first thing you do is to buy more RAM! I have maxed out the RAM in my 20" imac CD and even under Rosetta, apps are much faster than my powerbook 12"G4 .. Yes, it's not as fast as native apps, because those SCREAM.. but it is more than adequate. If you're coming from a G4, it is a step up, regardless of emulation layers or not. If you're from a G5, well yeah, some is slower, but those that are faster are a LOT faster...

and no universal apps? Maybe the big companies, who usually want to get more $$$ for an upgrade (Adobe for isntance), but the smaller companies and developers are steaming ahead. If it isn't a released app, it is probably available as a beta.

ScottEllsworth
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02/23, 03:12pm | report spam | close Reply |
Native Java is speedy

Yes, it includes a native JVM, with a -server VM too, so it is plenty fast. I have seen some amazing benchmarks on Intel core duo imacs.

The problem with neo office is that it also includes C libraries. Java apps that call into C need those C libs to be universal. This affects fairly few programs, as Java is generally fast enough on its own, so most people writing a Java front end stay in Java all the way to the backend. Matlab and neo office are exceptions.

ScottEllsworth
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Joined: Sep 2001

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02/23, 03:22pm | report spam | close Reply |
Not like 68k->ppc

One of the key differences between this transition and the 68k transition is the style of coding. Back in the day (and I remember it well), a certain amount of assembly was common.

Now, those using XCode see a very easy transition. Not trivial, but not that bad. The people who are kind of stuck are those who used CodeWarrior, and who did not believe the message given out back in June. There was no subtlety to it - Apple told all and sundry to start work, and have run many kitchens since then.

Thus, the tooling makes it easier.

Further, the speed hit for a non native app running under rosetta is smaller that the factor of twenty you had to pay for 68k->ppc (floating point). Altivec gets hammered, but most things run pretty well. Sure, assembly needs recoding, but most of us do not work at that level.

Further, Apple has not been subtle. The G4 15" powerbook is no more, and neither is the replaced iMac. Thus, if your company wants to stay in the game, you need to rev to a universal binary.

So, as a user, this transition does not look that bad. As a developer (who used codewarrior extensively), it also does not look that bad for most programs. The hard part is moving to XCode from CodeWarrior - not trivial, but important. And something we have been told over and over again for the last eight months.

Scott

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

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02/23, 03:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: Adobe slowest

Uhm... sorry but that is completely wrong. You can make carbon apps run on Intel just as easily. It has *nothing* to do with it being Carbon.

Now if they developed in CodeWarrior instead of XCode, then they have some work to do. But honestly, Adobe has a lot of Processor family specific optimizations in their code - that is why it is taking so long. They aren't dragging their feet - it just takes a long time.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

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02/23, 04:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Office is fast in Rosetta

According to reports, MS Office does not suffer from the same speed penalty as Photoshop. Could it be that it is less CPU bound? It most certainly does not use Altivec.

Whoever grouped Office in with Adobe products like Photoshop is either ignorant or deliberately spreading FUD.

jhorvatic
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Joined: Apr 2005

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02/23, 04:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
How many times has this a

How many times did Apple say Photoshop would not run on the new intels very well. How many times has this been published already. Yes we know already. But most other applications do run well even when not universal yet. I've had no problems running apps that were not universal binary. So comparing only photoshop and saying that the new intel Macs are slow is not fair especially when Apple stated during the release that Photoshop and pro applications in particular would not run well or at all. So yes we know and have known since January. This is old news. However my iMac 20" does run most things better than my previous Mac and the universal binary applications doubles that speed so if you plan on buying an new intel Mac and don't plan on using photoshop you have nothing to fear except reading dumb stories like this one from PC magazine.

LouZer
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02/23, 09:55pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: adobe slowest

Well the big juggernaut that Adobe is made their apps carbon so they would run on OS X and OS 9. Well Steve told them to write with XCode or cocoa not carbon. Did Adobe listen...nope. Cocoa and carbon are both 'native' to OS X and can be used for intel binaries.

Carbon was added to OS X because NONE of the then mac developers wanted to completely rewrite their software for OS X. If you were a programmer, you'd understand that its not something you want to do unless you HAD to.

Oh, and its not part of Adobe's business model to listen to Steve Jobs and do what he says. Steve-o cares about Apple, not Adobe.

And, remember the 'yellow box for windows'? That was Cocoa for windows, so you could write your apps in cocoa and use the code on both platforms. Apple told people to do that. Then they pulled it. Listening to apple isn't always the best bet.

See now Adobe has to rewrite almost from the ground up in Cocoa which is why they won't offer any CS2 items in binary. Also now that Lightroom is new they wrote it as a Cocoa app and wha laa intel binary came out pretty quickly. Put the blame on Adobe for not paying attention to Steve's recommendations to write their apps in Cocoa.

Again, the problem isn't that its not cocoa. Its that its not written in XCode. A lot of software is written in Metroworks Codewarrior, because, IIRC, they delivered the first compiler for OS X (Apple was way late to the party for their own OS!).

Apple didn't ship xcode until 10.3, which makes it kind of hard to be told to code in xcode initially, when it didn't exist.

godrifle
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Joined: Jan 2006

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02/27, 11:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
What I want...

...is the universal versions of Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro, Snapz X Pro, and Flip4Mac. Then, I'd love to see a universal version of Dreamweaver. I can live with pokey PShop for a while.

Otherwise, I love my iMac Core Duo. And louzer, great post.

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Non-native programs slow on Intel iMac

updated 11:05 am EST, Thu February 23, 2006

Non-Apple apps on Mac

News Flash...NOT!

Quandry

More like 2-3 years

Annoyed with ad links!

Keep in mind...

this just in...

right on scotty!

Scientist discover.......

Bummer

intel iMac owner

ad links

They're Not Wrong

to: the duh! people

Adobe slowest ?

neo office

New Mac User

Nearsightedness?

Native Java is speedy

Not like 68k->ppc

Re: Adobe slowest

Office is fast in Rosetta

How many times has this a

Re: adobe slowest

What I want...

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Non-native programs slow on Intel iMac

updated 11:05 am EST, Thu February 23, 2006

Non-Apple apps on Mac

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News Flash...NOT!

Quandry

More like 2-3 years

Annoyed with ad links!

Keep in mind...

this just in...

right on scotty!

Scientist discover.......

Bummer

intel iMac owner

ad links

They're Not Wrong

to: the duh! people

Adobe slowest ?

neo office

New Mac User

Nearsightedness?

Native Java is speedy

Not like 68k->ppc

Re: Adobe slowest

Office is fast in Rosetta

How many times has this a

Re: adobe slowest

What I want...

Login Here

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Connect tools:

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10 Most Read

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