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Woz criticizes Apple's mainstream software

updated 07:15 pm EST, Thu December 8, 2005

Woz on Apple software

Steve Wozniak -- co-founder of Apple and a man many consider to be the father of the personal computer -- said in a recent interview that he's not impressed with a lot of the software from major companies like Apple and Microsoft. "The big companies, Microsoft, Apple and AOL, they tend to turn out the , you know, software-wise," he said. "I get third-party stuff and it's almost always just better, cleaner and more understandable. It works better and does what you'd expect." Woz would like to see companies take a more humanist approach to software design. "I would try to take us back to the early Macintosh, the failed Lisa-type thinking of philosophies that the human is the center of the world and the computer gets designed around that person, with very good understanding of here is how people live their lives."

by MacNN Staff

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msuper69
Mac Elite

Joined: Jan 2000

0

12/08, 08:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
WTF?

Bull!

For example, the iLife Suite is far and away in a league of it's own. No other platform has anything as easy to use, well-integrated and flat out FUN.

Sure there are bugs in Apple's software. So what? They get fixed usually in the next release. But Apple's software is still better than anybody else's even taking into account the bugs.

beeble
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Mar 2004

0

12/08, 08:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Or maybe...

Or maybe be innovative and show people that there is a better way to live their life, a la iTunes or iPhoto. Instead of iPhoto, Woz seems to think it would be better have an app catalog what's in that shoe box of photos of yours and for digital, print it out, put it in the shoe box and then catalog it in iPhoto.

The same with iTunes. Make a CD playing app or an app to listen to regular radio or make an app that makes your CD collection collect dust without missing the music, time shifted radio (Podcasts), etc. I would have to say that the iLife suite of software is perhaps some of the most innovative software ever created. Which is why it's from Apple. No one else could ever come up with this because there isn't a pro creativity culture at other major software companies like there is at Apple with the possible exception of Adobe (and that's certainly open for debate).

I have to disagree with Woz lumping Apple in with M$. He doesn't provide a single example to back up his claim but just says everything is bad. It sounds to me like he's getting a bit old and doesn't want to learn new things as new horizons are opened with new software and hardware capabilities. That's fine. I don't have a problem with that, but slamming Apple like he did because he doesn't want them or anyone else to advance and take advantage of new technology is just silly.

Sorry Woz. You're a great guy, everything I've heard about you makes be think so and one day I hope to meet you and thank you for creating my favourite computer company, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this view of yours.

driven
Addicted to MacNN

Joined: May 2001

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12/08, 08:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wow ....

Woz sounds a bit bitter to me.

I like ya dude, but take a trip to Bora Bora and get some sun and a mai tai.

HowieDI2
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2002

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12/08, 08:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
I disagree...

I don't think Woz should lump Apple into that criticism. Apple has always put the user first and Apple also has a rapid upgrade cycle that constantly improves upon the software with each new version.

Smurfman
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2001

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12/08, 09:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Getting a little senile?

I think Woz may be getting a little senile. Apple, comparatively speaking, has some of the best software out there in the categories they are in.

Sure, it could always be better and more "human oriented", but it cannot be beat by most other software in the same category for Windows, Apple or Linux (especially anywhere near the price range).

Good grief... what drugs are you on Woz?? What exactly do you have in mind? Be specific. Map out a strategy of where you think the software industry should be headed (in regards to innovation).

It's funny, first he says he "gets the worst software from Apple", and then a couple paragraphs later he says this... "... I do not go criticizing Apple very much at all. I mean, no, I love every part of the Apple world. You can look with your eyes and just see that it always has - every version of Macintosh, including the PowerBooks - the most beautiful product quality and they generally tend to lead the others in terms of qualities you like -- thinness, size of screen, pixels on the screen. The whole world of Apple works together."

I guess he likes the hardware but not the software... in any regard, he seems to contradict himself. Strange article. I hope he writes a book of exactly what he would want in an Operating System. Personally, I would like to see more Artificial Intelligence (AI) in OS X (hopefully not becoming self-aware ;-). Having our own little OS X HAL would be pretty cool. As long as he/she was nice.

m4rtin
Junior Member

Joined: Sep 2002

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12/08, 09:15pm | report spam | close Reply |
Woz is a legend

So many people are so quick to defend Apple without reservation. Stop for a second to think about Woz's points. Apple are good but they could be better. The shareware/3rd party apps often are better. They are often also half-inched and incorporated into Apple's own software.

macimmortal
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

0

12/08, 10:49pm | report spam | close Reply |
This is messed up...

...did the spirit of Jef Raskin step into Woz's body and possess him? Substitute Jef Raskin for Woz in that story and tell me I'm not right.

boomw
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Joined: Nov 2003

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12/08, 11:09pm | report spam | close Reply |
Amen m4rtin

I am pretty much your average Mac zealot; still, I have had problems with OS X since the Public Beta. The near abandonment of the desktop metaphor in favor of the Finder is one example. The tiny-tiny type used in FCP, Motion, and other pro apps. Echoing m4rtin, iTunes, Sherlock, Widgets, Logic, etc, started their lives as third-party apps. So, Woz makes a good point. Sometimes people need to remember that Apple has two dads. Nothing against Steve, but sometimes I wish Woz had joint custody.

LouZer
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Joined: Nov 2000

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12/08, 11:34pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: wtf?

Sure there are bugs in Apple's software. So what? They get fixed usually in the next release. But Apple's software is still better than anybody else's even taking into account the bugs.

I agree! WTF? So what that there are bugs? They fix it in the next $50 release? Great! Sounds just like how Intuit sells quicken updates.

And Apple has serious problems with UI and HI issues. They seem to just make stuff up as the go along. You'd be surprised how many people, just starting with iTunes, don't realize there's a browse button in the top-right that shows you the albums/artists/genre links. They've started doing the "windows" no-no of putting commands only in pop-up menus. They keep changing their UI, with brushed metal to brushed metal/no borders (latest ugly iTunes look), to different buttons then any other app (Mail), iPhoto, whose toolbar is on the BOTTOM of the screen (huh?). Need I go on?

(Oh, I know, I'm just a troll whose whining and bashing apple. None of my comments could have any validity, since they dare not say that Apple and Jobs are God. Nevertheless, ignore them if you want, it doesn't make them true.)

BTW, I'm not saying there's a ton of better software out there, I'm just saying Apple could be doing a whole lot better with the UI to make things easy to use AND consistent.

Raccoon
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Joined: Nov 2005

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12/08, 11:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
I think

That Apple is very inovative with it's physical designs but very creative with software.

it's not very hard to listen to customers, ie; look hard at 3rd party software and expand on that with a team of programmers.

So in a way, I agree with Woz. But this is what I think seperates Apple from Microsoft.. They (Apple) actually listen too their customers and make changes, much like Firefox does with windows using folks in mind.

Ikon
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: May 2005

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12/09, 02:57am | report spam | close Reply |
hard

to judge�

Maybe Woz has some brilliant ideas, we do not know of. :-)

He's is probably right on some things. Changing shortcuts in an app is perhaps not so user friendly. Shame on you Adobe!

By the way apart from that I love Adobe, maybe greatly because of Quarks crappy evolution since 3.1. ;-)

mhuie
Dedicated MacNNer

Joined: Sep 2004

0

12/09, 04:05am | report spam | close Reply |
hmm

Now that I think of it, I agree completely. Mail.app is buggy with IMAP accounts, iPhoto is extremely slow, the Office suite is terrible. (I switch back and forth between the XP & Mac versions, the XP version is 10x better).

It's hard to find a completely working program without going 3rd party.

purpleshorts
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Joined: Sep 2004

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12/09, 05:54am | report spam | close Reply |
Room for Improvement

Compare Font Book vs. the (free) Linotype Font Explorer. Think about Aperture keeping all your images in one database file, instead of files and folders. Show me the folder where your email is kept. Show me the index in the FCP manual (there is none!!!! If you want to find "Compression" start at page 1 and look!). Tell me who thinks in terms of "Documents, Pictures, Movies" -media types - and not "Project A, B, and C". Why do the widgets disappear, and why (other than marketing hype) aren't they just called programs? Why the modality? There are many more, and those are just off the top of my head.

I think Apple software is fantastic, and the ability to do home DVDs easily is absolutely amazing. I've used the Mac since 1984, but I believe that there are areas where Mac can improve... and areas where it has missed the boat entirely.

benj
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Joined: Mar 1999

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12/09, 06:59am | report spam | close Reply |
Boy, Do i

Agree with the locus of Woz's position. This is no time to be sentimental over an Operating System. Apple products are beautiful, but I make my living showing people how to use their Macs or fixing broken software/hardware or attempting to find useful simple solutions for often, relatively simple problems. I'm grateful for a career, but I'd rather be an End User more than troubleshooter. This is the problem of losing sight of "Human Beingness" for profiteering. I think Woz is on the ball about the difficulties OS's have in identifying a purpose. DRM is a crappy solution driven because of the Music/Video Industry mindset. They can't get their heads out of the dark agees and then blame everyone else but themselves for their dissappearing bottom line. It seems like Microsoft these days is all about building software and then loaning it to you. Apple behaves similarly (maybe not as drastically, though) especially, with the iPod. The competition between iPod and Tivo IS going to be fierce...and it seems like Apple-not the Consumer- is making this possible for their bottom line (ok by me, i'm a stockholder- but i mean the average person is getting the shaft). For instance- Videos on itunes were plentiful and free....and now they cost you $$...as the kiddies say: teh suck!

howdesign
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Joined: Aug 2005

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12/09, 08:20am | report spam | close Reply |
He's Got A Point

I think before the introduction of iMovie and iTunes, Woz has a point. AppleWorks and previous efforts were far from revolutionary. I'm sure he must be thinking of the old days of Hypercard and Font/DA mover, ha!

Monstermind
Junior Member

Joined: May 2000

0

12/09, 08:33am | report spam | close Reply |
The John Kerry of Apple

A bitter loser who snipes from the sidelines. I think I saw him the other day next to the expressway offramp with a squeegee & an old sock...

ibugv4
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

0

12/09, 08:57am | report spam | close Reply |
i think

iphoto is the biggest piece of c*** I've ever used. I'm too lazy to go though the massive hirectory of folders it made to get my originals back, though. So I keep using it like a sheepish Windows users, because it works most of the time. It's slow, it's bloated, and 5.0 made it WORSE. In my opinion, Woz couldn't be more RIGHT. You Zealots need to wake up and realize that the real world isn't rose colored. It's technicolored.

Toyin
Mac Elite

Joined: Nov 2000

0

12/09, 09:15am | report spam | close Reply |
I'll have to disagree..

with most of the negative comments about the Mac OS and about 3rd party solutions being better. The few areas where OSX competes with 3rd party apps, I feel the OSX versions are better (ie iLife suite, Safari, iCal, Address book). A large part of that has to do with integration between applications and through out the system. No OS or application is perfect, and it's easy to cry foul. It would be nice if Woz gave more specific examples and some solutions or it just sounds like he's bitter and whining.

To ibugv4, create a folder on your desktop. Select your entire library and drag it to the new folder. This will create copies of all the pictures without any of the other data (ie thumbnails, back up images..etc). Personally I find iPhoto 5 to be adequate for my needs. 5000+ 5.1 megapixel images and speed is great on a 1.5ghz Powerbook.

eddd
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2001

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12/09, 10:06am | report spam | close Reply |
too easy, Woz

It's all too easy to think back to simpler times (MacPaint, MacWrite) and remember how rewarding (and relatively easy) it was to break new ground. User's expectations, demands and hardware were so much simpler then.

It's easy to forget the early attempts to broaden the capabilties of software. Take Director, for example. Trying to create interactivity and motion led to a cumbersome and dismal set of controls. Same with early 3D apps. Same with early Painter, Digital Darkroom, Pixel Paint, and Kai Krause's work. Things have come a long way since then, both in capability and ease of use. People demand more capability, and complexity comes with the package. If you hide the complexity, you lose the pro market and receive complaints that the controls are inaccessible.

It's also easy to forget the difficulties that reality can impose on your efforts. There's a reason Apple diminished, along with Steve and Woz.

It's too easy to sit back, remember the glories, and criticize the modern efforts. He sounds like everybody's Dad ("we had to write code in knee-deep snow ��and we LIKED it").

Feathers
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999

0

12/09, 10:51am | report spam | close Reply |
Entitled!

While it is possible that The Woz may have not used the best phraseology, he's pretty on the ball when it all boils down. He has no axe to grind and has always been incredibly open and honest, to the extent that he personally responds to a massive volume of e-mail. Try contacting Steve Jobs or Bill Gates!!! Comparing him with Raskin is outrageous. Raskin was a fake. Father of the Mac? I don't think so, if Raskin had had his way, the Mac would not have a had a mouse or even a GUI. C'mon! The Woz is clearly an idealist and in the context of someone who's been in this thing since the beginning, he certainly has every right to feel disappointed at the c*** that calls itself software today. The advances in processing power have been massively dulled by modern bloatware from lazy and untidy programmers. Microsoft in particular seem to employ the one hundred monkeys at one hundred typewriters principle. Until more people like The Woz stand up and shout that "...the emperor is naked..." we're doomed to technologically crippled future!

rok
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Joined: Mar 1999

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12/09, 10:52am | report spam | close Reply |
better /= great

look, first of all, woz is NOT being raskin-level bitter. period. so let's just let that drop, mmm'kay?

i think the POINT here is that, while apple is "better" than the other big company software, that does not, in and of itself, mean the software is great. i felt the days of itunes 2-ish were more approachable than the current version, simply because itunes these days gets updated to fit with what they want the ipod to do. there is no other reason to use iTUNES to organize PHOTOS and VIDEOS. panther's method of burning cd's was much more sensible than the current one in tiger.

seriously, i usually agree with folks against those who disparage apple's software and UI design, but i think you guys need to find a different pariah.

kick axe
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Joined: Aug 2004

0

12/09, 12:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
The Wozinator

I have to partially agree here with Woz. Where would I be without my third party software, YIKES! I still believe Apple strives towards the concept of the "humanist" approach.

perrylawrence
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Joined: May 2003

0

12/09, 12:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
name one

ok, name one company that does it as well as Apple. Saying that Apple needs to do better is like saying A Jaguar XKE needs to be better. Yes - untill the Apple and Jaguar DRIVE THEMSELVES they can stand some improvement. Sheesh!

brunocrew
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Dec 2005

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12/09, 04:38pm | report spam | close Reply |
Did you Read

Is it difficult having started this phenomenon of a company and maybe not agreeing with some of its decisions?

Oh no, I agree with it so much. There's just a few areas that are my own values cause me to be a perfectionist, but I do not go criticizing Apple very much at all. I mean, no, I love every part of the Apple world. You can look with your eyes and just see that it always has - every version of Macintosh, including the PowerBooks - the most beautiful product quality and they generally tend to lead the others in terms of qualities you like -- thinness, size of screen, pixels on the screen. The whole world of Apple works together.

swatson
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Joined: Nov 2000

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12/09, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
flash

Macromedia Flash is a great example. I loved ver. 3 and then 4. I worked as a designer and could do some great interactivity and games with ver. 4. But now you must be more of a programmer than a designer to use the advanced features of flash. It is no longer a program for beginners to learn. Ver. 3/4 you could "feel" your way through it. Experiement. Not any more. The latest versions are very unfriendly with out prior experience. A LOT of software has gone in this direction. I think it is bad for the industry as a whole.

Apple software is better than most, but still lacking.

I really like a previous users comment also about apple abandoning the "desktop" for the "finder." Both, in my opinion, have an important place.

Solair
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Joined: Dec 2005

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12/10, 08:49am | report spam | close Reply |
He has a point

Woz has a point, but I don't necessarily think those comments were taken in context. Some major software companies are more guilty of ignoring the human factor than others. Apple in general has always put the user's needs first when designing software but it doesn't mean that they always get it right. There are certainly a few aspects of the Mac OS X and some of the apple software interfaces that could do with being a little bit easier to work with ...

However, I don't think that apple has truely abandoned the desktop in favour of the finder. The desktop as it was in the classic mac os was becoming increasingly clumsey as we all began to multitask much more heavily. I think the current sollution where items on the desktop can be accessed easily through the finder is a good comprimise. It's an absolute pain in the --- when windows won't let you see the desktop via explorer and forces you to minimise everything before you can see your stuff.

Also, Mac OS X still mounts drives and servers to the desktop in a very transparent way, which is far superior to most other operating systems, particularly windows. They're also easily accessable through the finder.

I do think that the Mac OS has lost some of the simplicity of the original system, but it is providing an excellent comprimse between a complex UNIX based operating system and ease of use.

The classic Mac OS had lost the plot by OS 9, there GUI logic had long been lost by then, but there was a nice clean, sensible, easy to understand logic that did exist in the earlier versions of the Mac OS that have unfortunately disappeared.

The thing that Apple needs to avoid is adding unnecessary complications and widgets ala windows.

The iApps are generally quite ok.. although they do have the odd GUI problem that need to be ironed out and there's no doubt that iPhoto can be very slow when it gets a bit too full.

lazarus001
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2005

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12/10, 12:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
hurm

If you look at the past, this is just what he does. He has admitted the fact that he doesn't create stuff anymore and he is more of a motivator. Unfortantly the only way he knows how to motivate people, and he thinks it works it's a, 'Woz lives in a bubble world', kinda think, is to put things down so people work harder. It's just Woz, no one really listens anymore.

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Woz criticizes Apple's mainstream software

updated 07:15 pm EST, Thu December 8, 2005

Woz on Apple software

WTF?

Or maybe...

Wow ....

I disagree...

Getting a little senile?

Woz is a legend

This is messed up...

Amen m4rtin

Re: wtf?

I think

hard

hmm

Room for Improvement

Boy, Do i

He's Got A Point

The John Kerry of Apple

i think

I'll have to disagree..

too easy, Woz

Entitled!

better /= great

The Wozinator

name one

Did you Read

flash

He has a point

hurm

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Woz criticizes Apple's mainstream software

updated 07:15 pm EST, Thu December 8, 2005

Woz on Apple software

Related Articles

Recent Articles

WTF?

Or maybe...

Wow ....

I disagree...

Getting a little senile?

Woz is a legend

This is messed up...

Amen m4rtin

Re: wtf?

I think

hard

hmm

Room for Improvement

Boy, Do i

He's Got A Point

The John Kerry of Apple

i think

I'll have to disagree..

too easy, Woz

Entitled!

better /= great

The Wozinator

name one

Did you Read

flash

He has a point

hurm

Login Here

Register for our weekly email newsletter:

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