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http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/10/28/thurrott.on.front.row/

MS Media Center "more powerful," Front Row "simpler"

updated 02:05 pm EDT, Fri October 28, 2005

Thurrott on Front Row

Paul Thurrott has withdrawn his initial assertion that Apple's was a "rip-off" of Microsoft's Media Center. "I'll have to change my own opinion about Front Row and note that while the software is clearly aimed--or will some day be aimed--at the same general market as that for Media Center, it is only peripherally related to Media Center. That is, both software products provide a remote control-friendly, TV-viewable interface to digital media content. But Microsoft's approach is more powerful, with TV viewing and recording functionality and other features, while Apple's is simpler and arguably better looking, aiming for the iPod crowd, and not a high-end home theatre audience."

by MacNN Staff

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sertian
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Aug 2001

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10/28, 02:23pm | report spam | close Reply |
Rip Off

Hahaha. First one to get it working properly has bragging rights. You saw how Conan O'Brien ripped Gates at the CES. Sheesh.

ndtechie05
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2003

0

10/28, 02:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Microsoft rips Apple off

so exactly how many times as Microsoft ripped Apple off in the recent years? So Microsoft can rip Apple off yet (even tho apple didn't rip Microsoft off) if Apple rips off Microsoft then a big debate begins.

Jonathan-Tanya
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2004

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10/28, 02:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
I agree with Paul

Sorry, but Paul is right this time.

What this Apple Remote is, is cheap. You can give it a way with an iMac and not hurt margins.

Do a real product, with a real remote, making sophisticated features easy....and let people use it with the mac they really have hooked up to their 32" lcd tv...the mac mini. Then you've got a product and are competing.

Until then, its a nice freebie for imac owners, and thats about it.

eswinson
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Joined: Jul 2002

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10/28, 02:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
not a rip off just a skin

It is just a skin that ties togther functionality that you already have with iLife. The only thing new is the remote and the access to the movie trailers. (the interface for that is pretty slick.) The best part of front row is that it doesn't take over your computer. You don't have to decide to install a seperate OS edition just to get the functionality. I suspect front row will be included in the next version of iLife.

lockhartt
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Joined: Apr 2000

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10/28, 03:19pm | report spam | close Reply |
It's a nice add on...

...to differentiate the iMac right now, that's it. It isn't mean't to compete with Media Center (why bother), it is meant to make accessing the digital media apps already on the iMac more convenient.

FrontRow on a Mac mini isn't going to happen without a revision to the mini to give it an IR sensor. The iMac relies on the built in iSight to interpret the signals from the remote (not stated anywhere, but I guarantee it's the case).

What you might see is FrontRow bundled with the iSight, but at $149 that's a hefty add-on to the Mac mini just for a remote control... hence it's only going to come with the mini if there's a simple IR sensor added.

gambit23
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Joined: Nov 2004

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10/28, 03:25pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmmmm....

I wish people would review Front Row on what it is, not what it isn't. And what it is is simply a remote control-based front end to Apple's iApps. I think it's brilliantly simple, and can't wait to see where Apple takes it.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

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10/28, 03:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re:I agree with Paul

I don't think you get what sophistication means. A product can be sophisticated and simple/easy to use. It does not take a genius to come up with a complexity interface full of useless features.

Sophistication is usually associated with products that are deceptively simple on the surface and yet fully functional.

JBracy
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Joined: Aug 2000

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10/28, 03:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: It's a nice add on..

Actually the IR receiver is in the Apple under the screen. You can find this in the User Guide on page 12.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iMacG5-iSight-Users_Guide.pdf

benhur
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Joined: Jan 2001

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10/28, 03:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
well . . .

I thought it was interesting that Steve compared the simplicity of the Front Row remote to the Media Center one when they're two different products really. He kind of walked into this one.

There is no comparison yet. Apple still does not have a media center type computer despite all the claims and expectations when the Mac Mini first came out. I would love to see something like this from Apple.

Better yet or maybe even in the time being, partner with someone who has it figured out already. Tivo! I'm still waiting for the Home Media features from Tivo to work with 10.4 much less iTunes compatibility.

hayesk
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Joined: Sep 1999

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10/28, 04:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
Why even bother with him?

I don't know why people continue to read Thurrott's ramblings. He slags Apple every chance he gets. This guy is a MS fanboy, plain and simple.

Not everyone is happy with Media Center: http://blog.mattgoyer.com/categories/mediaCenter/2004/12/30.html

jhorvatic
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2005

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10/28, 04:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
I agree with hayesk

MS fanboy all the way. Most of the time if not all the time he has no facts to back up anything he writes. And like the others have wrote, front row is not meant to compete with Media center at least not yet. And when Apple makes that product that does it will be 100 times easier and better.

LouZer
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Joined: Nov 2000

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10/28, 04:45pm | report spam | close Reply |
All apple's fault

There is no comparison yet. Apple still does not have a media center type computer despite all the claims and expectations when the Mac Mini first came out. I would love to see something like this from Apple.

Yeah, it is Jobs' and Apple's fault. They dared release a computer that some people felt was perfect for their entertainment system (which it isn't even close to being), then rambling on and on about how great it would be for their entertainment system (why? I don't know, its not even component size) if only it had this, that, and the other thing, which is basically everything you need to make it into any type of media center.

Better yet or maybe even in the time being, partner with someone who has it figured out already. Tivo! I'm still waiting for the Home Media features from Tivo to work with 10.4 much less iTunes compatibility.

TiVO home media works for me on 10.4. I think when I installed it, it ran, then said it didn't install, or there was an error, but it was installed and works fine. The hack to get AAC music to play also works. I'm more interested in trying to get TivoDesktop 2.0 working on the mac.

Warrenpeace
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Joined: Oct 2001

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10/28, 05:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Neither was first.

Both are just copying what TiVo does. Microsoft 'cause they're greedy and Apple 'cause they're trying to make off something other than iPods, for when the bottom falls out of the mp3 player market.

Jonathan-Tanya
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Joined: Oct 2004

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10/28, 05:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
re:aristotle

quote: Sophistication is usually associated with products that are deceptively simple on the surface and yet fully functional

we agree on the definition, but that is exactly what Apple's FrontRow is not...

Jonathan-Tanya
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Joined: Oct 2004

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10/28, 05:05pm | report spam | close Reply |
re: not for mac mini

Well, who said that IR is the way to go with a remote? Mac mini's are perfectly capable of being a media center, and you can already do it from 3rd party products (some of which use blue tooth, some of which use regular wifi)...all of which are better than IR for this type of application.

Some people's 'remote' is also their cellphone, see www.salling.com

Apple just gave something extra to iMac users, but they don't get this market...not yet.

dona83
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Joined: Jun 2005

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10/28, 05:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wait unitl...

Apple will eventually integrate a TV tuner if they feel they're ready to really put their place in TV stands across North America. The problem with MCE is that the only affordable ones that everyone would jump onto use standard NTSC signals. Yawn. Front Row 1.0 is just the appetizer, wait until they get more content into H.264 HD and more people have computers fast enough to watch HDTV stuff, and possible they'd integrate an HD recorder and burn stuff onto their superdrives (what will BluRay drives be called? Ultradrives?) and then Apple will finally be ready for the ultimate killing. But for now Apple is being smart and waiting things out. I certainly applaud Apple's decision to have only six buttons on the remote although ultimately they may need to put a numerical keypad there... or the click wheel.

MacnnGregor
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Joined: Apr 2004

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10/28, 07:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
iPod interface

It is all about the interface, Thurrott. I assume and I hope as Apple adds functionality and adds iApps to Front Row, they keep the iPod-like interface.

I have never seen MS media center so I don't know how it works, but what I see in Front Row is a parallel, virtual desktop - call it the media rack, that sits in the background like the Dashboard, coming into play when needed and going away when it isn't needed. This may be an application that is in iLife, which would be cool, but it acts more like a virtual desktop in the OS. Thus it is has all of the QT, gpu, cpu power waiting in the wings and keeps the computer always nearby. It isn't a set top box hooked to a computer, it isn't a game console that can play DVD's - it is a virtual face to the device we call a Mac.

I would like to see Apple open Front Row to 3rd parties, like it does the Mac, who will add apps that can also be accessed via the FR rotisserie model. So if Apple doesn't want to add TV, Comcast or Elgato, can. It would create a Front Row ecosystem, like the iPod ecosystem and give developers the stage to innovate where Apple doesn't have the resources.

Probably won't happen until the interface is stable and Apple feels secure in releasing some control (yeah, right) but it would be like creating a whole new environment (like the Palm) with standards that could outcompete M$'s borgware.

zzarg
Forum Regular

Joined: Sep 2004

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10/28, 07:04pm | report spam | close Reply |
MCE is (currently) ahead

MCE is now in about it's third iteration (MCE2005 Rollup2) with Vista on it's way. Front Row is v1.0

MCE supports all major content delivery formats - Analog/DigitalTV, DVD/CD, ripped Audio, Stills, Digital Audio, FM tuners, Internet Radio (note: can't currently mix analog and digital over-the-air tuners)

Front Row supports DVD, iTunes and still images. No TV or o-t-a radio

Until Front Row integrates tuner support (hmmm... wonder how ElGato stocks are looking) then it's just a nice add-on for an iMac. Add tuner support (and smart recording capabilities) and MCE fanboys will need to be worried, but until then it's second fiddle.

GoodGravy
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Oct 2005

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10/28, 10:13pm | report spam | close Reply |
RTFA

It's hilarious to see all of the early griping comments whose authors obviously didn't even bother to read the whole article. If they did, they would see that their indignanat rebuttals are arguing pretty much exactly what the author is saying here.

jbelkin
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Sep 2003

0

10/29, 02:46am | report spam | close Reply |
PC TV

Well, the first Mac TV came out some 10+ years ago - while it was not much of a success, neither are the Media PC's. Most PC TV tuner card manufacturers have been selling an add-on function albeit until recently when HDD's prices dropped like a rock, most people did not offer recording capababilities. The Apple II offered a version tied into a Pioneer laserdisc player so the idea of a media center has always been there - until recently as HDD's prices are reasonably priced now, it was hard to garner much ethusiam.

The main problem is that the bulk of people do not want to pilot their TV via a PC - and since TiVo/faux-vo does the trick for less than $150, most people are satisfied. The early adapter/tech-geeks can run a NON-DRM version either with a hardware add-on or even with Apple's free giveaway from YEARS ago (search Apple Developer's site for HackTV or WhackedTV) ...

MS's problem is of course they have no clue about consumers and designed a system first to sell enmcoders/servers & a DRM to Hollywood and then kludged it to work minimally for consumers ... as usual, a** backwards and that's exactly what consumers think of it.

ApeInTheShell
Senior User

Joined: Nov 2002

0

10/30, 01:24am | report spam | close Reply |
Nonsense

Is exactly how I describe the response to this article.

JulesLt
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2005

0

10/31, 03:02am | report spam | close Reply |
Small Room

Like a few Apple products, this is v1 - not ready for the front room yet (hence not Mac Mini. There's also the fact that it uses features the Mini graphics card doesn't support - but probably will in the first Mini Intel media edition with build in IR on the front) . . . where I see it useful is in the situation a friend of mine is in - living in shared accomodation where an iMac gives him CD, computer and DVD player in one single package. (And as no TV tuner, no need to pay UK TV licence for it either).

eswinson
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jul 2002

0

10/31, 09:14am | report spam | close Reply |
Why Use IR

Seems pretty stupid to use IR and not bluetooth for the remote.

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MS Media Center "more powerful," Front Row "simpler"

updated 02:05 pm EDT, Fri October 28, 2005

Thurrott on Front Row

Rip Off

Microsoft rips Apple off

I agree with Paul

not a rip off just a skin

It's a nice add on...

Hmmmm....

Re:I agree with Paul

RE: It's a nice add on..

well . . .

Why even bother with him?

I agree with hayesk

All apple's fault

Neither was first.

re:aristotle

re: not for mac mini

Wait unitl...

iPod interface

MCE is (currently) ahead

RTFA

PC TV

Nonsense

Small Room

Why Use IR

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MS Media Center "more powerful," Front Row "simpler"

updated 02:05 pm EDT, Fri October 28, 2005

Thurrott on Front Row

Related Articles

Recent Articles

Rip Off

Microsoft rips Apple off

I agree with Paul

not a rip off just a skin

It's a nice add on...

Hmmmm....

Re:I agree with Paul

RE: It's a nice add on..

well . . .

Why even bother with him?

I agree with hayesk

All apple's fault

Neither was first.

re:aristotle

re: not for mac mini

Wait unitl...

iPod interface

MCE is (currently) ahead

RTFA

PC TV

Nonsense

Small Room

Why Use IR

Login Here

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