Let 'em hack away.

I like the heroin analogy. Get 'em hooked on Mac OS, but offer ZERO support for anything but 100% Apple hardware and Mac OS X. With this trusted chip thingie, it shouldn't be too difficult for Apple to do.

So, now that you're hooked on your HacMac OS X and find it's light years better than Windows, and you discover that the real thing will run just SOOOO much better if you want you run your HacMac OS X. But the only way to get it to run as advertised and to run the way it's DESIGNED to run, you MUST buy a Macintosh. Your stuck. Buy a Mac or keep on hacking... End of story...

When MS Vista is finally released, we'll be looking at a near-simultaneous release Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. You can BET Steve Jobs & Co. will be licking their chops imagining the head-to-head reviews. MS has all but announced that they'll be feverishly copying Tiger. Vista will be a wannabe catch-up to Tiger, whereas Leopard will be leaving Tiger in the dust. So, where does that leave Vista? And remember, when MS releases a major system upgrade, the smart folks buy new hardware so that it'll be able to run.

Now, won't these Mactel machines be able to run Windows, too?

It'll be Thanksgiving in Cupertino and Apple must be getting ready to carve up the turkey. Let's hope Steve Jobs' knife is sharp enough!

[Quote] Because everyone knows that the rampant virus situation on PCs is due to the Intel processor and not, say, the Microsoft operating system. [/Quote]

Obviously you have no idea what I meant when I said "running os x on his dell..." Now that anyone will have full access to Mac OS X, I would almost guarantee that there will be Virus' and Spyware, etc written for the Mac. I don't know why you even brought Windows into the discussion. My point is that the main reason that there weren't many virus' for the Mac, is because the so called hackers didn't have access to the OS in order to find any flaws/weaknesses. Now that they will have the ability to run OS X on their run of the mill X86 Box, they have all the access they need to write away. Make sense now ?

I really don't think you'll see many converts in the cracking crowd. These are usually not professionals with disposable income. They're typically kids, hobbyists, and cheapskates. They'll crack the Mac for fun or for the challenge, but I doubt if many of them will run out and buy a Mac the next time around. They'll still build their own boxes - that's part of the mindset.

The fact that Windows may run on a MacIntel machine represents a much greater chance of converts than the Mac OS getting cracked and "hooking" Windows users.

You could download Darwin, which is the foundation for OSX for Intel forever. So, you could examine the OS and probe for vulnerabilities from your standard PC.....

The only thing you won't get is the high level stuff, but most of that is based on open standards (CUPS, Apache, etc) so you could download the appropriate Open Source Stuff and hack away.

Doubt it will make much of a difference in the security of the OS - that's already been well established.

Quote:My point is that the main reason that there weren't many virus' for the Mac, is because the so called hackers didn't have access to the OS in order to find any flaws/weaknesses. Now that they will have the ability to run OS X on their run of the mill X86 Box, they have all the access they need to write away. Make sense now ?

ok.... do you guys even RESEARCH your claims first? any joe s****** with $100 and a fulltime class load can get developer kits from apple. it's called the student developer's network (there are varying degrees depending on usage).... the EXACT SAME channel that that they are distributing the x86 build through... i've been a member for the last 5 years. soulda given me plenty of time to make virii.

second, how the h*** is running osx on a box other than an apple one gonna make it any more susceptible to hacking? is there a special apple hack program that only runs on non-apple x86 boxes? i dont think so.

third, apple is not gonna release osx for liscence. anyone who lived through the early 90's would know why. apple is a hardware company. period. it aint gonna happen, dry your pants and move on.

third, everyone who used the beta osx had to agree to an NDA before they could use it. this includes releasing photos or code-- both of which were violated.

fourth, what sounds more logical, that apple waited to pounce so that windoze users could have their appetite for osx whet? or that it probably takes more than a couple of days to gather the information on the sites, create the case against the sites and to distribute the information to the possibly hundreds of different sites carrying the story? kinda makes sense doesn't it...

sheesh.

um, hate to break it to you but news isn't based around when you happen to get around to reading it. the fact is that these hack stories have been out for weeks. welcome to the party.

No, but when Apple gets around to filing lawsuits IS based on when THEY get around to reading about it. So just because someone posts up some story on his blog or some hacking site doesn't mean Apple immediately knows about it and their lawyers are already at their doors.

Plus, besides finding out about them, you have to get someone to go through the effort of finding out WHO to sue.

So, now that you're hooked on your HacMac OS X and find it's light years better than Windows, and you discover that the real thing will run just SOOOO much better if you want you run your HacMac OS X. But the only way to get it to run as advertised and to run the way it's DESIGNED to run, you MUST buy a Macintosh. Your stuck. Buy a Mac or keep on hacking... End of story...

I guess I must see a different class of the hacking community, for the ones I know, they'd rather spend their time hacking OS X on their box then be forced to buy whatever computer some company wants them to buy. And it would never be a mac, not with Apple's incessant non-upgradablity and closed hardware.

What's more likely is that they'd really play with OS X, see that they really like it, then get working on a new version of GNOME or KDE that implements all what they like, just like they do now.

And of course, how big is this 'hacking' community that's running out installing OS X on their boxen? Is that really such a large market that its going to turn Apple's tide (oh, right, with Apple's marketshare, 20 new users is a large increase!).

When MS Vista is finally released, we'll be looking at a near-simultaneous release Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. You can BET Steve Jobs & Co. will be licking their chops imagining the head-to-head reviews. MS has all but announced that they'll be feverishly copying Tiger. Vista will be a wannabe catch-up to Tiger, whereas Leopard will be leaving Tiger in the dust. So, where does that leave Vista? And remember, when MS releases a major system upgrade, the smart folks buy new hardware so that it'll be able to run.

Well, I just hope, then, that Apple actually spends some time to test and verify 10.5, but I doubt it (so far, 10.x have completely been full of problems on the initial release, and I'm talking obvious issues, not stupid "it doesn't work with my third-party scanner" garbage). Maybe by then Spotlight will be usable, as opposed to its "type a letter, wait until all occurences of 'M' are found), and actually configurable. Maybe Dashboard can be fixed so that it doesn't suck up gobs of memory just sitting behind the scenes (on my machine, several widgets are taking over 30MB EACH!, and none of these are complicated or huge programs). Or stop 'tweaking' the finder to make it 'better' and just fix the freakin' thing (latest change - trying to resize columns no longer shows the left/right icon when you put the mouse of the separator bar, you have to click first, which means you have to guess whether the mouse is correctly over the separator bar). Would also be nice if the finder didn't beachball just trying to mount an iDisk. Or that Find wasn't so dependent on spotlight that turning spotlight off on a folder makes the finder unable to find anything in that folder, even by name.

But it doesn't solve the major issue for Windows us

ok.... do you guys even RESEARCH your claims first? any joe s****** with $100 and a fulltime class load can get developer kits from apple. it's called the student developer's network (there are varying degrees depending on usage).... the EXACT SAME channel that that they are distributing the x86 build through... i've been a member for the last 5 years. soulda given me plenty of time to make virii.

Actually, I thought the intel development kit was only available to the high-priced developer members, not just any old student or home user.

Second, just because you have access to the kits doesn't mean you have the desire to spend the time learning the binaries. The PPC chip differs from Intel, so the viruses would need to be constructed differently (esp. since most viruses these days attack on the buffer overflows).

Third, one big reason for the lack of Mac viruses is just there's not enough critical mass of macs out there to spread an infection. Once a computer is infected, it wants to infect others (if they're open to the security hole), and so forth. But trying to find a Mac out there amongst all those windows computers takes time, so it takes a lot more time for an infection to spread. By the time its noticed, it won't have gotten far, and can be squelched. So, what's the point of writing a virus if its not going to do much damage. Proof of concept is great, but doesn't give a virus writer as much of a boner then knowing your taken down half the internet.

You're right, testudo.

Only Select ($500/year) and Premier ($3500/year) Developers can rent the Intel Development Kits for $999. I say rent because you have to give them back.

Even if Student Developers could rent them, they wouldn't have $999 to just "throw away" like that...

So the leak came from one of the higher paying developers... if Apple is smart they would have somehow secretly serialized each development box and could trace who leaked what...

Oh, and perhaps inaudible could have RESEARCHED his claim first? Before implying that Student and Online Developers could access the Development systems.

This is your future. You created it.

Why do I have this nagging suspicion that when these OS X for intel comes out, it will come with 40 character serial numbers?

And somehow it will work in conjunction with a TPM chips.

And these developers versions being developers version doesn't come with serial numbers.

So are we getting excited about nothing... Quite possibly.

Apple is learning a big lesson, and that is to their advantage. Although it will not be very nice for the consumer. I suspect that the first production x86 Macs and their OS X installers will be linked together by serial numbers on the MoBo, or in the Intel processors.

Apple will learn, and they will fix the problem. Customers who have thrived on the loose licensing scheme in PPC OS X will wake up to some cold water chills.

You know, I've heard this argument for so long, but I can't really make sense of it. I mean, Macs have never had more than 5-10% marketshare, yet in OS9 days, there were lots of viruses. (Of course, they were mostly pre-internet). OSX has been around for a few years now. I know that I've had a 24/7 high-speed connection for 7 years now, and probably had a dialup connection running hours a day before that, and have never had a virus.

You say that by the time it got noticed, it wouldn't have gotten far. But where's even one example? (Not being disingenuous here...I seriously would like to know). I mean, if I were trying to steal info, hack, wreak havoc, etc. I would go for the low-hanging fruit and hit those tons of OSX computers like mine that have no virus protection installed much less running.

Okiedoc

"Third, one big reason for the lack of Mac viruses is just there's not enough critical mass of macs out there to spread an infection. Once a computer is infected, it wants to infect others (if they're open to the security hole), and so forth. But trying to find a Mac out there amongst all those windows computers takes time, so it takes a lot more time for an infection to spread. By the time its noticed, it won't have gotten far, and can be squelched. So, what's the point of writing a virus if its not going to do much damage. Proof of concept is great, but doesn't give a virus writer as much of a boner then knowing your taken down half the internet."

This is a good "wake-up" call to Apple, Intel, and any other company who naively thinks that the TPM or any other form of DRM will be secure and unhackable. I love it. At best the TPM chip will keep the average consumer from installing OSX on non-Apple boxes because it won't be worth the hassle. Hopefully Apple/Intel will accept the reality of this and not waste time in frivolous lawsuits or stricter, more elaborate coding of the kernel, et. al. which would just serve to complicate and slow down the system.

... that we are STILL having this STUPID platform arguement... when will we just realize that if we all spoke the same laguage (or OS) will will get on with REAL innovation and ease of collaboration (sp!) - it just seems so 80's, that is 1980's!