is Joe and Jane Consumer going to hack their OS X so they can run it on a Dell???

are they really stoopid enough to download it from a P2P network if they are not 133t h4x0rs???

downloading photoshop from p2p is one thing. Downloading a hacked OS X to run on unsupported hardware? lunacy. I can't believe that this would amount to anything near a significant percentage of people.

"an right/authorization error due to the kext allowing PS/2 support"

That means that Apple's not just using DRM to prevent booting, but they're also using it to ensure the kernel remains inviolate. The only reason I can think of for locking the kernel like this is to prevent people installing trapdoors below DRM-using applications. Unfortunately, well, it also means you can't use custom or unsupported drivers legitimately while playing DRM-protected content.

If Apple is indeed using DRM this way, that will be a shot in the arm for Linux.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Redmond these days.

I think it would be in Apple's best interest to have a Demo Version of OS X, perhaps watered down a bitand with printing restrictions etc... that will run on Intel. You know... kind of like the demo version of Office that came installed on imacs and such. Just enough to wet the appetites of PC users, and it could calm down the attempts to try and hack OS X. The thing is that Apple's OS depends on more than just it's processor to run correctly such as Bios. There are certain ways that Bio's are processed when the OS is booting up. This is possible with Windows emulation of OSX (something that is currently available for Windows and I'm sure will continue to be and be better once intel version ships). The same will apply to mac users...We will have better emulation of Windows if not being able to run the native version.

If Apple can increase it's install base buy curiousity... I can bet that they will evenutally open up the market to a few other PC vendors like Sony... and Maybe even Dell. It wasn't just licensing to Clone makers that was bad for apple before.. it was licsensing when they didn't have a strong enough install base.

If they can compete more with pricing (possible with INtel chips and maybe even eventually AMD), and with a strong enough install base, they could feasibly open the market again to a select PC base and with "authorized" Apple Mother boards to run the Bios correctly. If Apple's market gets big enough... they will have to do that to help it grow more and become a strong competition for Microsoft. This said... Apple will need to have software developers compete more with it's applications like Ilife, and Safari and should never require that these applications be used with it's OS, or we'll have another Microsoft Fiasco on our hands. If the company get's bigger.. opening up it's hardware to other companies actually would make sense to avoid it becoming a monopoly.

"I absolutely _HATE_ Intel (never owned one- always did AMD) and was wondering what I was going to do now that Apple is using InHell chips.

If this is true, will be great to build an AMD machine and have superior performance and the superior OS!"

I liked how you coined the term "InHell". Did you think that up all by yourself? That's pretty clever? I bet you were the same person that thought up "Micro$oft". How old are you now?

I don't get the hoopla about this. ALL Apple programs and Mac-based programs are pirated. As is OS X and Windows. Why is it JUST NOW news? I've seen copies of Jaguar beta months before it came out on P2P. OS X on Intel is going to be an interesting thing, at this point I don't really care anymore. I have my iMac, and it works. I'm only interested in the solutions *I* need to function day to day. What everyone else does is their own business... why waste your time fretting over it? Get back to work!

"I don't think this is as much a hack as it is a person who has an Intel chipset/MoBo with similar specs to the one Apple has cobbled together for the developer transition kit."

No, it's actually a real hack. You can get it to run on other x86 hardware, like an AMD system. It's not just trying to throw together the same hardware as the devkit.

This is all an interesting exercise, and will no doubt prove to be a nice hobby for über-geeks, but I don't see it making much of a difference.

Anyone who would attempt to run a mission-critical machine, a production machine, or even a home machine with such a setup is asking for more problems than it's worth. I would expect Apple to keep an eye on these efforts and periodically throw roadblocks in the way, adding more hardware checks and tightening the security. The result will be a constant dependency on cracks for those that are intent on bypassing Mac hardware, which will render any non-approved config anything but dependable.

As much as I would love to build my own OS X box, I wouldn't bother, since my machines need to work when I want them to work. I imagine most Mac users are the same.

... this type of piracy activity usually results in hurting the honest users. As Apple tightens the security, more hardware will cease to work, making things like 3rd party drives and memory a risky proposition. Imagine having to buy your RAM from Apple in order to make sure it works for years to come. Or your hard drives. Or your optical drives, etc...

"Anyone who would attempt to run a mission-critical machine, a production machine, or even a home machine with such a setup is asking for more problems than it's worth. I would expect Apple to keep an eye on these efforts and periodically throw roadblocks in the way, adding more hardware checks and tightening the security. The result will be a constant dependency on cracks for those that are intent on bypassing Mac hardware, which will render any non-approved config anything but dependable. "

Actually it runs fairly reliably if you have a CPU with sse3 support. Darwin runs on all these machines to begin with, and it IS the underlying OS, so I don't see why stability should really be an issue.

"As Apple tightens the security, more hardware will cease to work, making things like 3rd party drives and memory a risky proposition. Imagine having to buy your RAM from Apple in order to make sure it works for years to come. Or your hard drives. Or your optical drives, etc..."

...

If you think that, you really don't know anything about computers. Even WPA on Windows can't do that. That's just inane.

Apple has managed to survive in this industry for 30 years. I think we an all give Apple SOME credit for seeing the advantages and disadvantages of the move to Intel. For one thing, Apple can always change its mind any time it wishes, and if Intel Macs make it too easy for people to port OS X to non-intel Macs, Apple can go to some other platform of its choosing (back to PowerPC or to a more proprietary version of an Intel chip, or Cell, or whatever).

Apple knows alot more about what its doing than any of us, or Dvorak, or any other pundit. After seeing Apple survive so many downturns, and come out just fine (like right now), I am prepared to give credit where credit is due, and assume that whatever happens, whether OS X is hacked, or remains proprietary to MacTel, Apple has a plan up its sleeve, and will be able to deal with it, or even take advantage of it.

For the person who asked: the developer kits aren't a set of discs for a standard PC.

It's a G5 tower case with a special intel motherboard and 3.6 ghz Pentium processor and development toolset for same.

I'd be interested to see if it could be made to run on wildly disparate hardware but yes, in the end, it is really only going to run nicely (read good experience) on the genuine article.

For me? I'll stick with my G5 dual for the foreseeable future.

michaeljohn63

Ditto!

have not always been so stellar. I've been putting Macs (or trying) into enterprise level business for 20 years, when they literally the only computer in the education market and they were peer level with PCs in business, Windows didn't exist. Its true that corporate IT types wanted to buy PCs from the guys in the blue suits who came in constantly to work on the mainframe rather than two hippies in a garage. But Apple blew it. Jobs was a kid, full of himself, his invicibility, and greed and he blew it. They have scuttled thier ability to move into that market by boneheaded coporate decisions since the beginning. They've done a great job creating an image that they are nothing but a niche player but that was never their "plan". They are an ivory tower organization, always have been. They hired "evangelists" right out of business school who were utterly clueless to try to sell to corporate accounts. Idiots. I was one of a small handful of people who made Apple a success in the desktop publishing market in spite of themselves then and maybe people who like their machines will help them succeed in busting into the PC world now, again in spite of themselves. I love Macs but s**** Apple corporate. Viva la hack!

One of the big advantges Apple has always enjoyed is that they control the hardware and the software. One of the major problems that MS has is that Windows has to run on a gazillion different machines of different designs and components. Of course Apple has a financial stake in keeping OS X on "MacIntel" but also one of reputation. If people start hacking to OS X to run on generic PC's and then they run into trouble, what people are going to believe is that OS X is a crappy operating system, not the fact that it's been twisted out of shape to run on hardware for which it was never designed or tested. You see any example of that in one of the earlier posts. One poster does not want to run OS X on a Dell so this individual might try a Toshiba and fall flat on his or her face, then Apple will get the blame. The only way to assure that OS X will run as smoothly and reliably as it does it to keep it on Apple hardware.

"One of the big advantges Apple has always enjoyed is that they control the hardware and the software. One of the major problems that MS has is that Windows has to run on a gazillion different machines of different designs and components. Of course Apple has a financial stake in keeping OS X on "MacIntel" but also one of reputation. If people start hacking to OS X to run on generic PC's and then they run into trouble, what people are going to believe is that OS X is a crappy operating system, not the fact that it's been twisted out of shape to run on hardware for which it was never designed or tested. You see any example of that in one of the earlier posts. One poster does not want to run OS X on a Dell so this individual might try a Toshiba and fall flat on his or her face, then Apple will get the blame. The only way to assure that OS X will run as smoothly and reliably as it does it to keep it on Apple hardware."

I personally don't believe this is an issue considering that it requires a HACK to get it to work on non-Apple hardware. Anyone with enough skill to do such a thing understands that it shouldn't be expected to run flawlessly, regardless of whether or not it actually does. You won't see Joe Sixpack doing this, and he won't be able to comment on it and call the OS c*** because he won't see that.

Anyway, this thread ISN'T about Apple opening the OS to the PC market, it's about a hack, so let's not speculate on anything other than the implications of the hack.

I personally don't believe this is an issue considering that it requires a HACK to get it to work on non-Apple hardware.

Oh c***, you can hack OS X and put it on any PC? And then you can use said OS X and Safari to download p***! That means OS X supports downloading p*** on PCs. We need to bannish OS X from the shelves until we can warn the parents out there that this is nothing but a s**-driven OS that their kids shouldn't even see!

Sure, its one thing to be able to download instructions on how to make a bomb to kill hundreds of people. But we're talking s-e-x here!

"Oh c***, you can hack OS X and put it on any PC? And then you can use said OS X and Safari to download p***! That means OS X supports downloading p*** on PCs. We need to bannish OS X from the shelves until we can warn the parents out there that this is nothing but a s**-driven OS that their kids shouldn't even see!

Sure, its one thing to be able to download instructions on how to make a bomb to kill hundreds of people. But we're talking s-e-x here!"

Nice try, but the general public probably doesn't read Slashdot everyday. They won't even understand what a hack is or how to do it. The kind of idiots that would make that statement are the ones that would just buy the Mac in the first place.

The kind of thinking that said stupid people are smart enough to be able to use said hack just doesn't even make sense.

"One of the big advantges Apple has always enjoyed is that they control the hardware and the software. One of the major problems that MS has is that Windows has to run on a gazillion different machines of different designs and components. Of course Apple has a financial stake in keeping OS X on "MacIntel" but also one of reputation. If people start hacking to OS X to run on generic PC's and then they run into trouble, what people are going to believe is that OS X is a crappy operating system, not the fact that it's been twisted out of shape to run on hardware for which it was never designed or tested. You see any example of that in one of the earlier posts. One poster does not want to run OS X on a Dell so this individual might try a Toshiba and fall flat on his or her face, then Apple will get the blame. The only way to assure that OS X will run as smoothly and reliably as it does it to keep it on Apple hardware."

As above, I don't think this is a problem. Anyone moving OSX to a non-supported pc will hardly be worried about performance or driver issues! They will get the same problems that they get with Windows but they will see a better interface. This will be a problem for the street corner pc guys who make custom off the shelf boxes, but by in large most computers sold come from a few big companies that use pretty standard parts and if someone was going to make a splash in the MacTel market, they would use supported hardware with the correct drivers. All garage-built boxes would work like c*** and thus be no different than they are now and be of no surprise to those who buy garage-built c***.

In the open market Apple will get no more blame than MS unless Apple does a bad implementation on its own.

INHO pretending to be marketing gurus is a waste of time on this board, but what the heck, its about opinion so knock yourselves out.

The TPM is a device like any other, and the installer DVD can only trust that the device driver was not hacked to give a false positive "reply" from the TPM. So all you need to do is get similar hardware (minus the TPM), modify the installer DVD, and voila, it installs!

This is to foil Joe Average from borrowing his bud's OS X DVD and installing it on his PC. Hardcore techies will always be able to find a way to modify it to install on regular PCs, no matter what Apple does.

something human beings will be able to do, really. They started with a brand new 1.6 Gz SSE3 Pentium 4 PC, installed BSD Unix on it, pulled that hard drive from the PC and INSERTED IT IN A MAC, then installed all the (STOLEN) OS X developer version for Intel packs into it by hacking them, then pulled it back out of the Mac and reinstalled it into their PC. In the end what do they have? The first geek on the block who could boot Mac OS X on a Dell. But that is about it. They mentioned that their camera would import pictures into iPhoto, but good luck PRINTING or SCANNING (shudder) anything without drivers. Good luck ever patching the thing (notice 10.4.1 in the movie?). It is not something you could do anything productive on, and by the time real MacIntels ship in 8 months the OS will be even more chained to the hardware. Even now nobody has HACKED Apple's OS X - this is just a workaround and a kludge at that. If you can boot BSD on your PC you can install stuff over it and likely still boot. All the copy protection in the Developer version of OS X for Intel does is prevent you from installing it on a PC other than a developer box and that is still the case from what the kiddies in France are saying.

bye bye, Apple...

It's far from a kludge. It runs just great if you have an SSE3 CPU. That and printer drivers are included in the dev kit, just like a regular Tiger disc.

100$ paypal to anyone who can combine everything on to one file, that i can burn, and boot up. must be working. if intrested email me jonathanquinn@gmail.com. I do not want to have to modify or change anything running a dell intel celeron 2.33, w/ 256 ram and 30 gig hd. email me for questions.

see the how-to and osx running on an ugly sony laptop...

http://www.uneasysilence.com/os-x-proven-hacked-and-running-on-an-ordinary-pc/

you'll have to format the whole hd to install.

Wow! 100 bucks?!

So some cracked out script kiddie, that $100 to make a bootable CD for someone across the country means one more weekend rave they can go to and talk about how 1337 they are.

I think i've decided to try my craptastic dell laptop with this... might actually want to use it again if it works. I can't stand windows but i want to access the internet when i go home and my school gave it to me for free back in '02. might partition drive and use it.

question is if i do this do i still get autoupdates etc with this... and would it be worth it since all apps currently will just run in rosetta... a 1.6 GHz p4 laptop runing OS X... it'll probably run about the speed of my 700 MHz iMac for most tasks.

saw this on another forum and i had to log in.

nice to see the 'NN getting some press. this osx on x86 thing might prove to be a great thing for apple.

anyone notice the stock price is damn high?