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Apple uses DRM to restrict Intel for OS X

updated 12:15 pm EDT, Tue August 2, 2005

Intel OS X DRM

Developers are reporting that the new kernel included with Apple's Developer Kit DVD for the Intel transition uses . It employs a "TCPA/Palladium implementation that uses a Infineon 1.1 chip which will prevent certain parts of the OS from working unless authorized." Mac enthusiasts and developers have speculated that Apple might use a DRM scheme to prevent consumers from installing Mac OS X for Intel on regular PCs. Apple is also reportedly interested in Intel's DRM technology for preventing piracy of audio (and possibly video) files purchased from its iTunes Music Store.

by MacNN Staff

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shawnce
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Nov 2000

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08/02, 12:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
Rosetta uses it not...

Rosetta uses it not the Mac OS X kernel in general. Rosetta is the PPC emulator that allows non-native code to run on Intel CPUs.

diamondsw
Senior User

Joined: Apr 2000

0

08/02, 12:51pm | report spam | close Reply |
Late as usual

This was big news, oh, a few days ago. "Apple is also reportedly interested in Intel's DRM technology for preventing piracy of audio" - you mean, pundits have speculated about it, just like they think subscriptions will be the next big thing.

diamondsw
Senior User

Joined: Apr 2000

0

08/02, 12:52pm | report spam | close Reply |
Rosetta is required

The graphics layer of OS X is not Intel native, and requires Rosetta to function. No Rosetta effectively means no OS X.

Stratus Fear
Senior User

Joined: Dec 2002

0

08/02, 01:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
Actually...

It's not the graphics layer, it's the text rendering service that isn't Intel native. If it was the entire graphics layer, the system would run pretty slow.

ecrelin
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2000

0

08/02, 01:54pm | report spam | close Reply |
shortsighted,

time to open up not grab on tighter. The piracy of Windows did not damage its ubiquity or M$'s bottom line in reality, it kept people on the platform. What Apple needs is exposure. They don't need to officially license or support it but If PCs can be made to run the OS they may not only find a bunch of new buyers for it and it only sows the seeds for new Apple hardware customers. OS pirates won't buy anything anyway so there is no real loss there but they may buy a new Mac next time they buy a machine and if they like it all their friends will know it. The hardware obsolecense curve is flatter than it used to be for routine computer use. Allowing M$ to be the only commercial OS vendor for existing and currently shipping high end PCs shuts out a big market that will opt for a new OS rather than a new machine in the short term and when they are ready to buy again Apple is still pre-limited to its own stuff and the hurdle for consumer buy-in is just as big as it is today. Can't get real traction in the market with no product exposure except cool advertisments, get it in people's hands you dopes. There is no downside, Apple loses nothing. What was the 1984 ad all about anyway? Fight against the money grubbing, control oriented monopolists right? Linux users might just as well produce a new version of that ad with SJ on the screen.

Ganesha
Senior User

Joined: Jul 2002

0

08/02, 02:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
The problem with priacy..

Is that lets say Joe Windows user installs it on his Dell... WTF? He goes, Macs can't use the internet? (cause there is no ethernet driver). Then he tells all has six pack buddies. Macs SUCK they can't use the internet, since no of them have a Mac, none of them refute him, he is the tech expert among the six pack gang after all. Result, Apple just lost a group of possible switchers and not just one.

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

0

08/02, 02:08pm | report spam | close Reply |
This is Bunk

OSX on intel shoudlnt be restricted to Apple hardware only. Why? Because geeks out there will play and experiment with it. Who cares if they can load OSX on a eMachine box. The point is that no major company, no average consumer, and no school would ever buy that configuration for logitstical as well as legal reasons. Apple wouldn't support non-Apple hardware from a support standpoint (verifiable via Applecare and serialnumbers).

If I were Apple, I'de let OSX run on ANY intel machine from a technical standpoint. From a licensing standpoint, I'de prohibit it. Wink Wink, style. Then, quitely, most geeks will play with OSX and it will gain more exposure.

DRM on the OS is stupid all around. In fact, from a consumers point of view, DRM is stupid completely. As a hacker myself, I can effectively defeat nearly all DRM. But the average Joe couldnt or wouldnt ever do that. So, whats the purpose of DRM? In a word, to punish the little guy.

ronjamin
Baninated

Joined: May 2002

0

08/02, 02:11pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ganesha....

the fact is that OSX can recognize nearly all Windows hardare, including nearly every ethernet card ive ever experiemented with. OSX is very flexible, and that is what is the secret weapon of Master Jobs.

shawnce
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Joined: Nov 2000

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08/02, 02:21pm | report spam | close Reply |
Ronjamin...

Not true. Darwin for Intel only supports rather narrow amount of Intel/AMD based hardware in comparison to what Windows and Linux support.

jimster
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Joined: Aug 2005

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08/02, 02:28pm | report spam | close Reply |
Trojan Horse

Just because apple will use a DRM doesn't mean that it's forever. There are many many options Apple can pursue. Until there is a day that Apple has killer high priced applications business and consumers can't get enough of, Apple will keep a closed system. Remember why Apple closed down the clones? Apple right now makes a boatload of money off of it's HARDWARE not SOFTWARE. Who knows, perhaps Stevo has a secret plan in which you will be able to run windows programs directly thru OS X. Remember the days of Red box and Yellow Box? Also, if things do get tight, all will take is a simple software update to remove the restrictions. I bet once OS X for Intel is released for retail box purchases, it will only take a few months before hacks come out that will fake any DRM checks. Apple knows all these option. They are smart. After all, they were developing OS X for intel in tandem with every since PPC release!

testudo
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Joined: Aug 2001

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08/02, 02:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
Missing the point?

Hey, did it occur to anyone that they did this more to keep the beta from being used on all sorts of hardware (trying to keep it in the hands of who they send it to), rather than the final version?

But, hey, didn't everyone speculate that this was how Apple was going to keep it from booting on your Dell, when they announced the intel switch?

ecrelin
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2000

0

08/02, 02:32pm | report spam | close Reply |
Wither Darwin?

And what of Apple's vaunted open source effort?!? What is the percentage of active open source developers who only use Apple hardware, or want to? How does any of this fit in? Steve get a clue, don't listen to the paranoid moneymen. Every time Apple does something with bean counting as its primary focus it has been a detriment to the platform.

aristotles
Grizzled Veteran

Joined: Jul 2004

0

08/02, 03:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
Geeks smell bad

The geeks and DYI's can go to h*** for all I care. They ruined the PC industry by squeezing out all of the R&D money out of it.

I don't want the same thing to happen to the mac.

coldfusion1970
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Joined: Nov 2004

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08/02, 03:50pm | report spam | close Reply |
Business

I would guess that most of the above posters know nothing about business. If Apple open Mac OS X to any Tom, d*** or Windows PC, it will kill their hardware business STONE DEAD. Apple make their money from their HARDWARE business. They cannot survive on sales only from new/updated versions Mac OS X ever 18-24 months. Geez guys, its not rocket science. Thank god SJ is in charge of Apple.

ecrelin
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2000

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08/02, 04:36pm | report spam | close Reply |
Biz not so simple

What we are talking about here is Apple going out of it's way to disable it on any other machine. I'm not talking about developing and supporting it for every white box. If Joe Windows does get it to run all the better. If Dell wanted to offer it they could "qualify" their own box and offer support. Making it available and supporting it are two vastly different things. If Apple continues to meld its hardware and software as it's primary products they will thrive. Everyone doesn't buy things on price alone. The concept that PCs are so much cheaper has been clearly debunked, they are but a little bit cheaper feature for feature and the compromises are many. Nonetheless, even if they are cheaper people still buy Mercedes and Porsches when they can buy a Geo. If the OS runs on a PC then people get to try it out and see how much better its put together. It may not run on everyone's machines or it may not support every peripheral but it is a more effective way to get people's hands on it than trying to get them to an Apple store. The press alone on the subject would be worth billions in brand awareness advertising. I have bought 12 machines in 20 years, every one an Apple and I wouldn't buy another brand no matter how much less it costs. There is no PC on the planet that is as well made and thoughtfully designed. They will continue to innovate. I don't know any mac users who would buy a Dell on price. As a systems integrator I would continue to promote Apple hardware as the most trouble free and best supported hardware for commercial or educational environments. Business, like rocket science, has to take into account many aspects of consumer behavior. Buying on price is one but it is mitigated by myriad influences of confidence and perception. Contrary to your simplistic overview I believe the net result would be that Apple's hardware sales would grow not shrink.

lkrupp
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Joined: May 2001

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08/02, 04:44pm | report spam | close Reply |
RE: Business

I agree whole heartedly. Mac OS X on any old hardware means instant death for Apple as a hardware company. The short clone era proved that unequivocally. I still remember the Mac clones cannibalizing Apple's hardware sales almost over night. Assuming for argument's sake this does happen we now have a weakened Apple that is 1/20th it's former size that is easy prey for Microsoft who would force the remaining hardware manufacturers into exclusive Windows agreements. "No Windows for you if you offer OS X as an option." They've done it before in case anyone doesn't remember.

lkrupp
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Joined: May 2001

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08/02, 04:48pm | report spam | close Reply |
The Gates factor...

"If Dell wanted to offer it they could "qualify" their own box and offer support. "

Microsoft simply would not allow Dell to do this. How hard is that to understand? Microsoft controls the PC hardware sector. They do what MS tells them to do or they lose their Windows license. I they defy Redmond they simply cease to exist. It's really that simple.

mjtomlin
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Joined: Oct 1999

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08/02, 05:02pm | report spam | close Reply |
overreaction

"So, whats the purpose of DRM"

Insurance.

You can't stop people from doing what they want, but you can put up a convenience barrier to let them know that whatever is they plan to do, is probably something they shouldn't.

"Apple going out of it's way to disable it on any other machine"

While this may be true, the flip side to that argument is Apple is doing everything it can ensure its own future as a hardware company.

"Apple's hardware sales would grow not shrink"

That of course is going to be true whether OS X is made available to everyone or not. Why? Apple said they would not do anything to prevent Windows from running on their computers. Think of the people who prefer the Windows OS that would love to be able to run it on Apple hardware. That is the true benefit of Apple switching to Intel.

Apple hardware running OS X ... Apple hardware running Windows. In no time at all Apple's market share could at least double.

the subject at hand...

Like another poster has mentioned, maybe all this c*** that everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over is nothing more than Apple trying to keep the beta from being installed on anything other than the developer systems. The final Intel based version of OS X, may not even contain all of that. Furthermore, Apple's Intel based computers may not be anything like these developer systems so there probably won't even be a need for it.

hayesk
Professional Poster

Joined: Sep 1999

0

08/02, 07:30pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple needs hardware sale

Wow, some of you just don't get it. The OS development is subsidized by hardware profits. Apple won't give up their profits and go under just so some geeks can experiment on a Dell.

Not only that, one of the biggest reasons MacOS is so nice to work with is the integration with the hardware. How well do you think that will work when Apple has to support thousands of hardware configurations?

MacOS X will never run on any old PC and that's a good thing.

aergern
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Joined: Jan 2004

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08/02, 08:07pm | report spam | close Reply |
What scares me.

I'm just scared that this DRM c*** will stay in the OSX long after the "beta" has come and gone. I fear that I'll be told what I can do and what I can't do with the software and hardware that I buy. I fear that every piece of software will phone home and the room privacy abuse will widen beyond anyone's comprehension .. it's like that 1984 commerical realized. I love my Powerbook but just because Apple is the first to use this TCPA/Palladium c*** doesn't mean that it's not a poisonous pill to swallow. Microsoft couldn't get Windows users to swallow this when they brought it out and we in the Mac community should be just as wary of it. There are plenty of ways for Apple to keep OSX off generic PC's.. I fear this TCPA/Palladium c*** is just to make the RIAA and MPAA happy.

Ralf_Wiggum
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Joined: May 2002

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08/02, 08:17pm | report spam | close Reply |
Re: What scares me.

It doesn't scare me at all. Apple has always been extremely liberal in regards to their consumer software licensing schemes. The Macintosh operating system since day one has never had any license keys or authenticity keys, and the use of TCPA technology will likely not spell the beginning of any such schemes either. iLife has no license keys. That's why I've been more than happy to pay for OS X as well as iLife (and the annual upgrades). Because they don't nickel and dime me for every machine I install it on in my home. And the Tiger family pack pricing isn't outlandish either. I'm quite happy with their behavior in this aspect. Some of their pro software does have license keys, but that's far more understandable simply because of the much higher retail value of the software.

In short, this is simply to lock the OS to Apple hardware and nothing more.

DarkVader
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Joined: Sep 2001

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08/02, 09:10pm | report spam | close Reply |
Maybe it's not forever..

But we need to let Apple know NOW that it isn't acceptable. I've pushed Apple hardware since the Apple II days, I've never "switched".

But if Apple implements this on a shipping product, I may never sell another Macintosh, and I may never recommend another Macintosh.

Linux on the desktop is getting pretty damn good now, and I think we can be sure it isn't going to have "Trusted Computing".

bigpoppa206
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Jun 2003

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08/02, 09:29pm | report spam | close Reply |
WOW!

Who let out all the extremists today? I say kudos to Apple and keep doing what you are doing! To h*** with anyone complaining about '1984' and 'Big Brother'...puhleeze! Apple was never worried about anyone running OS 9 on a PC so that sort of technology was never needed or used. The software has always been tightly wound to the hardware. Steve Jobs is wise to come up with some sort of plan that allows them to control the type of hardware that OS X runs on, otherwise you will have exactly what the PCers have...more choices but also more headaches! Protect the hardware business at all costs!

eswinson
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Joined: Jul 2002

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08/02, 10:40pm | report spam | close Reply |
Always a catch

In the Pre-OS X day all macs required a ROM that contained a portion of the mac OS and prevented running The MAC OS on a 68K computer other than a MAC. There were plans freely available to turn and Atari ST into a mac but it required an original mac ROM or a cloned (copyright violation) one to make it work.

Gabriel Morales

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08/02, 11:15pm | report spam | close Reply | delete
And so it begins...

Hopefully this is simply to prevent OS X from being run on any old PC (an arguable subject). If this is the only use, then so be it. But I also fear a trend towards content control from the OS/hardware as well. As I've said before, this is where I would draw the line...

And letting Apple know that we won't stand for it-- normally I would agree on collective action, but Apple is somewhat arrogant, specially with Jobs at the helm, and no amount of (very legitimate) complaining prevented Apple from simply terminating the Apple II, with no real upgrade path to the Macintosh(-- just buy new hardware and software buddy!) Unfortunately, there are probably enough blind Apple loyalists to support Apple and its inconsiderate and reckless decisions.

To Linux or to not?... The future shall tell...

Stratus Fear
Senior User

Joined: Dec 2002

0

08/02, 11:43pm | report spam | close Reply |
Jesus...

Some of you people don't get it. TCPM is keeping the OS on the hardware it belongs on. If you're a Mac user to begin with, you don't have a damn thing to worry about. Apple isn't out to rule your computing experience, only to keep their OS on the hardware it was meant to run on. If you don't understand that, then shut up now, because you obviously don't have a handle on the subject.

UberFu
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Joined: Oct 2002

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08/03, 12:47am | report spam | close Reply |
RE: What scares me.

What scares me. 166930 8/2/05, 8:07 pm EDT I'm just scared that this DRM c*** will stay in the OSX long after the "beta" has come and gone. I fear that I'll be told what I can do and what I can't do with the software and hardware that I buy. I fear that every piece of software will phone home and the room privacy abuse will widen beyond anyone's comprehension .. it's like that 1984 commerical realized. I love my Powerbook but just because Apple is the first to use this TCPA/Palladium c*** doesn't mean that it's not a poisonous pill to swallow. Microsoft couldn't get Windows users to swallow this when they brought it out and we in the Mac community should be just as wary of it. There are plenty of ways for Apple to keep OSX off generic PC's.. I fear this TCPA/Palladium c*** is just to make the RIAA and MPAA happy. Comment posted by: aergern

Dude - most modern software [mainstream stuff already phones home_ There are ways around this if you go that route - otherwise if you are a legit user and purchase your software - then this shouldn't bother you_

UberFu
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Joined: Oct 2002

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08/03, 12:51am | report spam | close Reply |
someone - somewhere.....

..will eventually take it upon themselves to port the x86 ver. of the MacOS to a usable version on any standard PC system_

I wouldn't be surprised to hear about someone running the MacOS on an XBox_

Then someone might eventually figure out how to get the WinOS to run on a Mac box too_ Who knows_

MacnnGregor
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2004

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08/05, 05:31pm | report spam | close Reply |
Apple...

...feels the need to do this for all sorts of DRM reasons, but I don't believe the hype that opening up would kill Apple hardware sales. That is just stupid. If Macs got to 10% market share and let people put them (with some effort) on to Dells, 6% would be still buying Macs at the very least and that would represent and incredible amount of cash for Apple.

Look at what Apple has done with

MacnnGregor
Fresh-Faced Recruit

Joined: Apr 2004

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08/05, 05:37pm | report spam | close Reply |
Hmmm

My comments got truncated... to continue...

Look at what Apple has done with a sub 4% market share. If they opened up the ability for geeks to put Leopard on Dells, guess how much market share they would lose......zilch!

This is not the same Apple as in the days of the Clones. Apple will probably always make the coolest integrated systems and I bet it will always keep a majority hold of any Mac market. Any fraction that uses OSX on PC's would be a market segment that wouldn't buy macs anyway.

So lets say the Mac market is 10% of the total. Apple would hold at least 8% of that market - the other 2% would be software sales that pays for increased customer service work and the 8% means that Apple would double its R&D budget from what it is today.

Where's the problem here?

If Macs ever get to 20% market share, then there are some big issues at hand, but that won't happen for awhile.

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Apple uses DRM to restrict Intel for OS X

updated 12:15 pm EDT, Tue August 2, 2005

Intel OS X DRM

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Rosetta uses it not...

Late as usual

Rosetta is required

Actually...

shortsighted,

The problem with priacy..

This is Bunk

Ganesha....

Ronjamin...

Trojan Horse

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Wither Darwin?

Geeks smell bad

Business

Biz not so simple

RE: Business

The Gates factor...

overreaction

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Re: What scares me.

Maybe it's not forever..

WOW!

Always a catch

And so it begins...

Jesus...

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someone - somewhere.....

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Hmmm

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